http://dbd.game/killswitch
No Spider Killer planned for now
so based on some in-game arcade machine and talks that the next original killer will be Asian folklore and very gruesome some folks speculated this might be Jorogumo (japanese Spider-Woman)
Also this apparently has sparked discussions about arachnophobia mode and other similar accessibility features and now they are taking notes.
Well imo its sad as such a killer would seem like an interesting design. But maybe this means we will get a killer based on another region that we haven’t seen to much in the fog already. Also disheartening if you know me and my posts regarding accessibility features on these forums 😐
Comments
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so what's the obsession with a spider killer?
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Simple, Spiders have always been nightmare fuel for people. Real question is how to get a spider killer to work in DBD.
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you can't. i'm pretty sure looking at it would kill your frame rate with all the legs moving which is why i think bhvr didn't have one yet
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I don't have Twitter. What does a spider have to do with accessibility? Arachnophobia Mode?
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waaay to many options tbh.
I guess wall crawling is off the table bc they said they tried it before and just couldnt make it work though
Still got shooting webs, trapping, poison, web for detection/fast movement, ghoul like swinging, jumping/lunging forward, using the Front legs to Pierce, stealth etc.
Design wise they have the option to make it a slender spider or human/spider hybrid as the jorogumo would be or as we have Seen in one of the tome illustrations
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yeah, as i mentioned in my post.
There is plenty of games that have implemented it which works great btw, these include other horror games, even online multiplayer ones, some games specifically about spiders as well
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Outside of having a suitable content rating, developers are not responsible for managing people's triggers.
At some point, people need to take responsibility for their own wellbeing and realise that going into a peanut butter factory when you have a legume allergy is a bad idea.
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Xenomorph Queen got 6 limbs and a tail, Nemesis with 2 zombies works in 2v8.. they should be able to make this work..
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Yeah, but asking for some completely optional, only visually adapting clientside feature for something that hasnt been in the first 9-10 years in a literal videogame should be okay to do. Apparently this thing isnt that integral for the Game to begin with and the devs can decide on their own if they want to get resources into this or not.
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There's a big difference between fear and phobias, and arachnophobia is one of the more...volatile ones. I know people that have literal panic attacks seeing big spiders in games. Personally, my own is incredibly mild and I'd be able to handle it, but specific things trigger it and make me uncomfortable. Like Kanaki in Cochlea, when he was going insane.
Spiders aren't even a good horror element in the first place because very few people without arachnophobia care about them and the people with arachnophobia aren't scared by them, they're made deeply uncomfortable..
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I've been hoping for a spider killer for the last 6 years…. This rumor got me so hyped and then this news hit me like a truck.
That's now how it works at all? Spiders were in games for years and had no frame issues at all. The amount of legs moving isn't an issue. It's just an animation file that's playing.
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I don't think the game is capable of handling a spider killer. we've already seen the strain and limitations of Ghoul
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Coraline the mom monster was a giant freaking spider and it’s hella popular
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I'm happy to hear this. I love the Japanese-inspired killers we do have, but after teasing an 'Asian folklore' killer it would have been crazy for them to reveal yet another Japanese one.
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do all 6 limbs move? i don't go against many xeno's much less the queen also there was a statement about not adding more zombies for 2v8
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pretty sure they do move why else would they need bones for animations. Though regardless, this isnt the limitation you think it is
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I would rather BHVR not make a spider killer, because I'm 100% certain it'll just be disappointing.
We already know BHVR's engine is not designed to handle flying creatures and they fake it by having the killer walk, but let their model float off the ground.
So I can't imagine they can actually get real wall climbing which is something I'm sure people would want if they added a spider killer.
Likely it'll end up being some kind of projectile killer with maybe a tunnel system to quickly get around the map and people will complain it's some Huntress x Xenomorph hybrid.
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based on this logic we shouldnt get any killers anymore at all though. People are always complaining that new killer is just killers xy
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just watched a video on xeno queens animations and the tiny arms outside of swinging picking up vaulting don't really move at all the tail sways in the walking animation but in general they don't move
this wouldn't work with a spider killer since all 8 legs would have to be moving as the walking animation alone unless they do a non standard arachnid killer
for example entoma but using her as a base they use a humanoid form but add spider aspects but at that point they might start looking like kaneki
but usually when people think Jorōgumo
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The second pair of arms of the Xenomorph Queen move in the lobby animation, in game, they are almost immobile (they move slightly, sometimes). They are not used at all to crawl.
Xenomorph Queen is a new model with new sounds, the size and animations do not change whatsoever. The crest is big, but the Xenomorph model itself is the normal size.
If you want to see it for yourself, there is a channel named Syralex which showcase killer animations and skins. You will see that the second pair of arms is purely cosmetic.
The videos are sometimes 8min+ with every single animations from both POV, really handy to see the devs work on a killer or a skin before you commit to a buy.
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I'm assuming they've looked at other games that have implemented an arachnophobia mode in recent years to keep players and they want to avoid all that
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World of warcraft just changes the spiders into crabs lol. But the reason that wouldnt work here is that in wow they just auto attack and die thats their only 2 animations, but dbd would have them using spiderlike attacks, picking up survivors a specific way that a crab would have to do different, and whatever cosmetics it would have wouldnt be shown. (There are alredy spider charms and even a perk icon but i guess those don't count?)
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The words "arachnophobia mode" annoyed me greatly.
A phobia is defined as a persistent, excessive, and irrational fear of an object, person, animal, activity, or situation.
As someone who has arachnophobia and worked for years to overcome it, I find the notion of an anti-phobia accessibility option absurd. I started with tiny money spiders and letting them on my hands, and am now able to hold even medium sized spiders unprotected, and can capture even very large spiders under a glass and paper and take them outside without panicking. I still have to control my fear, but that is a skill to develop in itself.
My mother suffered with incredibly bad arachnophobia, still does, but when she became a teacher had to get it under control so that she could deal with spiders in front of 5 year old without panicking them.
DBD is a horror game. The reason you play horror games is to experience and face your fear, and I would love to have that new player fear experience I had when I started playing DBD back, and I'm sure many players would. There are things to do with accessibility that do need to be handled, like the visual terror radius for hard of hearing, the sensory overload/epilepsy issues from Clown and Doctor, etc. These things should be handled...
However when it comes to phobias, asking foŕ accessibility options on them, I'm sorry, is just ridiculous... Emetophobia might have a case because it can make you physically sick... but other phobias is just being silly... are we gonna add options for Hemophobia to remove blood? Nyctophobia to remove darkness? Aichmophobia to remove sharp objects?
"Accessibility" isn't a word that can be just thrown out and be automatically right. How far exactly into the "irrational fear" accessibility pool do we want to go? Fear is fear. Deal with it or leave.
Post edited by UndeddJester on9 -
Whole thing is stupid. I'd rather BHVR not do anything that "sounds" cool on paper anymore though. They are still confined within the very lackluster limitations of the DBD engine. Until that changes, my expectations won't either.
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everyone has a different journey and they may experience their phobia differently.
its great you are overcoming yours but that doesnt mean everyone else has to do it the same way and it should definitley not be mandated by a Video game they are playing.The reason you play horror games is to experience and face your fear
thats not true though - I don’t have any kind of phobia and I still play and enjoy horror games. People with a specific phobia (irrational fear) may still enjoy horror media that don’t include their phobia and especially in DbD case arachnophobics may have player the Game for almost 10 years and enjoyed the present horror aspects.
Emetophobia might have a case because it can make you physically sick... but other phobias is just being silly...Thats not true, other phobias can make people physically sick as well. Are you sure you are actually talking about phobias and not just normal fears…
are we gonna add options for Hemophobia to remove blood? Nyctophobia to remove darkness? Aichmophobia to remove sharp objects?imo this is different as these are themes that are present in the whole Game, not even just every Match but even outside of the matches. As for Stufe Like Coulrophobia, Emetophobia, and potentially Arachnophobia it would only be präsent in some of the matches that in this case survivor players cant control at all. So they are forced to either not play the game at all because they might encounter this theme suddenly even when it wasnt there for years of them playing or they have to close the game (dc/afk/playing blind/deaf) for these matches.
Though there is an EASY Solution for these problems: phobia mode that changes these visual or audio triggers client sided. It wouldnt affect anyone else, correctly implemented wouldnt give any advantage, and people that want to accustom themselves to their triggers can try and turn it on
Other games have implemented these without it actually affecting other Players already. It’s really that simple and you don’t need to work yourself up about it.-4 -
I believe the issue with a spider killer is a technical limit than an phobic one. A spider would be wide and short which doesn't fit well with current level layouts. It would involve code to make the legs crawl up walls in narrow areas which would certainly be buggy as hell.
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different people are affected differently. Some arachnophobic people may be affected by these depictions and others can handle these well. As I have read, Most are affected by realistic looking Spiders and especially their movements.
But sure, arachnophobia Mode may also affect these depictions, wouldnt hurt anyone either and may make it more easy for people that enjoy DbD/Horror in general but don’t want to be confronted with their arachnophobia.
‚it’s a Horror Game‘ is not an excuse btw, This Game would be ENTIRELY the same without spiders, they are not integral for the actual Game/gameplay.There are phobias were a specific Mode wouldnt make sense to implement in DbD but using this slippery Slow Argument is irrational for arachnophobia/emetophobia/coulrophobia as they are only present with specific killers (in case of spiders not even actually present now but it Apparently still Counts as a Horror Game…)
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Good for me. I don‘t want a spider killer.
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I absolutely agree with you that fear and horror is unique to each individual. In fact I cite that as one of the greatest things about horror as a genre, the fact that it is so personal to you in regards to what you personally fear.
To get a little philosophical, video games are a medium that allows players to immerse themselves in a world that they otherwise would not be able to experience. Fear is a negative emotion, why would any of us want to experience it? The reason I would argue is because it is such an interesting emotion, uniquely introspective to you as a person, and a very raw to the human experience.
I had a very intense fear of the dark as a child and well into my teens, more specifically cracked cupboards or dark hallways. The Dredge touches precisely on my childhood fears, and the only reason I'm able to deal with him now is there have been many forms of media that hit this precise fear that I have explored at length.
I have intense fear still of concepts such as possession or various representations of poltergeists/demons that I cannot put a physical barrier between me and it. I believe it may have grounds in feeling unable to control.
The common trait of a hero is bravery, and the definition of bravery is "the quality or state of having or showing mental or moral strength to face danger, fear, or difficulty". Bravery is not defined as a person that is not afraid; not caring about danger is stupidity, which is why we have lines such as "there is a fine line between being courageous and being stupid". What makes a character brave is that they experience fear, and yet are willing to face that fear anyway.
I bring this up, because to come into a game that is predicated precisely on the idea of gathering together and celebrating all icons of horror and fear, and then try to demand features to diminish its horror elements instead of taking steps to manage your own phobias, is at best cowardice, and at worst extreme entitlement.
My family have several individuals with autism, bipolar disorder, ptsd, etc, and in a lot of cases have phobias associated with them, some of which can be explosive at times. We have a common saying in our home of "that might be a reason that explains your behaviour, but it is not an excuse", and we still hold each other up to the same standards as everyone else. I have my own phobias that I have faced and still face to this day, not limited to DBD, but all aspects of life, and have held me back in numerous ways... but I wouldn't dream of asking for special treatment to remove those hurdles, because doing so would prove that I can't overcome them, that I will forever give into them. Being forced to face them, I have become much better (even if still not good) in those regards.
This mentality of "my challenges in life, even if they are entirely irrational or of my own making, aren't for me to solve or fight to overcome, they are for everyone else to accomodate", is not an attitude I believe should be celebrated in any way shape or form, and is a attitude that seems to be very prevelant nowadays.
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and then try to demand features to diminish its horror elements instead of taking steps to manage your own phobias, is at best cowardice, and at worst extreme entitlement.
Demanding and asking for are two very different things.
It seems like the people against optional Phobia modes are the ones demanding something here - which wouldnt even affect them as no one would be forced to use such an optional Setting and this seems to me more like what entitlement is. Espeically considering they way people are speaking against it (calling it stupid/dumb, having no empathy for other, only Talking about themselves and their own experiences, belittling others, trying to dictate how others should handle their own phobias and media usage)
you don’t have to ask for special treatment for yourself, no one is saying that you should or trying to Tell you how you handle your mental health, but why do you think you can tell others what they ask for?
just because this way has worked for you doesnt mean it will work for wvwry affected individual and they may just not be in a mental state to go that way.
"my challenges in life, even if they are entirely irrational or of my own making, aren't for me to solve or fight to overcome, they are for everyone else to accomodate"This isnt happening either. They are asking Game devs for an optional feature. Every other player would not be affected.
And again, making it a slippery slope, generalizing.. the world can become more welcoming but somehow people try to turn that into something bad when it wouldnt harm anyone Else or affect them negatively-2 -
Not unreasonable argument, and I will take this moment to apologise if I came across overly bullheaded.
I think the main reason why myself and other people object to this thought process is where do you draw the line?
The problem that comes of accessibility features is they almost always sacrifice immersion for functionality, and in almost all cases, these are abusable for competative advantage... every accessibility change is a near unavoidable compromise in this regard.
e.g. the Visual Terror Radius is just categorically better for dealing with stealthier killers than not having it. Colour enhancement systems like reshade counter trap killers and allow for effectively aura perks for free. Gamma effects allow players to totally bypass darkening effects, etc, etc.
As such the inclusion of additional features to combat phobias runs a similar risk... and the problem is the Pandora box this opens.
For example: -
- Do you allow people to ban Clown for coulrophobia? Huntress, Nurse, Ghost Face or Trapper for Masklophobia? Billy or Blight for Dysmorphobia? That is abusable to just avoid certain killers.
- Do you allow people to make the game brighter to counter Nyctophobia? Despite the obvious advantages this brings.
- Do you allow people to to turn all sharp weapons into blocks for Aichmophobia, making those killers weapon textures larger, blockier and easier to see?
- Do you allow people to change models, sounds and powers completely such as Plague for Emetophobia or Zoophobia for Pig and her roar?
You can see how the list goes on, and basically if you facilitate one phobia, the implication is you have to include accessibility for all phobias on demand.
By implication none of us can say no to any request regarding phobia support, because after all, why would you support accessibility for one phobia, but not others? If someone asks for it, aren't you then duty bound to support it, cause not doing so is favouritism to one type of phobia over another?
You might say no, of course not, supporting all possible phobias would be ridiculous, but the fact is you then have to have someone define which phobias it's fine to have accessibility for, and which ones it is not, and that seems like a lose/lose no matter what you do.
As I say, this is a horror game the entire point is to touch on phobias... so if the goal is to make phobias accessible... you basically need options to turn of basically every aspect/element of the game... which just seems a flawed premise at its base.
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Ideally accessibility features wouldnt provide any advantages for people that arent affected by the initial issue. And I can see that argument is reasonable to some degree.
but people are also exaggerating these, eg i still can hear Most Killer lullabys before I can see the visual indicator (Most easily with Huntress but also others) and I have to think to myself: are the people that rally against this feature sure they are not the target audience here?And even then, these features can be fine-tuned, where the advantage would either be negligible or even give a slight disadvantage if it is too much
I already Said where I draw the line: if the feature is integral to the whole games Identity such as Masks, sharp weapons, blood, nighttime in DbD then an extra mode may be not reasonable. But if the game didnt feature something triggering a phobia sich as arachnophobia for literal a decade and suddenly it gets added but wont affect more than 90 perfekt of matches then why not add a phobia mode which changes the model client-sided to something still Horror themed but just not arachnid - it shouldnt give an advantage (there is already cosmetics that change the killers appearance greatly that are Not considered super advantageous) then what exactly speaks against it?Obviously the line has to be drawn somewhere, but the Community/player base should be able to ask for such features without being attacked for it and the devs can consider to implement these (based on requests, available resources, etc) without being attacked for it for either decision.
Just because they implement one phobia Mode doesnt mean they have to accomodate to all possible phobias just as much as they don’t have to cater to any existing color blind condition just because they have a basic colorblind mode (eg its a Video Game that uses colors and it will never be fully accessible for achromatopsia) - though they still should improve their colorblind settings
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This is so ridiculous if concerns about people with arachnophobia is the real reason for not wanting to create a spider-based killer.
I fully expect now that BHVR will ensure that they are being sensitive to every possible phobia, which basically means that all game content must now be removed.
If they don’t, it obviously means that they don’t care about accessibility.1 -
🙄
It’s no where stated that they haven’t added a Spider Killer because of arachnophobia. Assuming that based on the tweet is already irrational..
and obviously they cant address every single phobia in existence as phobias can be literally triggered by anything
Is it really that hard to react rationally about a possible and only optional feature that would make a videogame accessible or let it stay so to some players without affecting anyone else?-2 -
If they can't cater to every phobia, then they should cater to none.
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if they cant cater to every every vision or hearing impairment then they should cater to none. Since they cant cater to fully blind bor deaf people i guess we need to say good bye to the already implemented accessibility features.
who is allowed to making up these rules again?0 -
That's different and you know it. They can't cater to blind people because it's a visual medium.
However, catering to a phobia is a stylistic choice. Plenty of people are terrified of clowns, yet we have a clown killer. Plenty of people puke when other people do, yet we still have Plague. Why are we making exceptions for people who are scared of spiders?
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‚we‘ don’t make exceptions for arachnophobia
I have asked for modes for Emetophobia and coulrophobia for a Long time here on the forums.
and no, I don’t See how it’s completely different tbh.They have the ability to accomodate phobias Like these three mentioned easily. Why do you feel the need to gatekeep these?
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Because it's a horror game and a spider killer would be freaking cool. That's why.
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there is horror games without spiders that work just fine. There is non-horror games with Spiders that work just fine.
The Horror Genre isnt defined by having Common phobias in the media (even though there is a big overlap.
‚it’s a horror Game‘ is not an argument at all.
It would be freaking cool. I would love a Spider Killer as well.There is literally no excuse for actively wanting no (arachno)phobia mode outside of development issues/respources needed - which doesnt seem to be a factor for this Community when it’s about other things than accessibility features.
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I'm looking forward to seeing this "gruesome" killer. I hope it's genuinely unpleasant to look at. I thought that the Unknown would be the first killer that made me feel uncomfortable, but he ended up looking adorable instead.
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Add a spider killer and filter out the weak
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Well... considering we already have spider legs grabbing people to sacrifice them to the Entity, to say its not already part of the existing aesthetic is not really accurate, but I do understand the point you're making.
I agree that ideally accessibility features shouldn't give any advantage, but in case of disabilities, by their very nature, they are there to accomodate someone who isn't as able as everyone else... which is essentially near impossible not to be a better option enabled over not having it.
This is an objective problem... it is a negative of the game, the same way having a marker for the centre of your screen isn't really cheating, but it IS an advantage... and it means that you as a normal player have to gimp yourself intentionally by not using it... or join in to be on a level playing field. That is an annoying question to ask of any player, because we know that a lot of players would ignore an honour system... so you have to decide between them. Disabilities are however something that most people can rally behind. Despite it being an objective issue for the game, it's a compromise we often accept, because supporting people's with disabilities is important for a civilised society.
However... this I feel is what creates the pushback regard accessibility features related to phobias. A phobia can be considered a disability, but they do not automatically qualify as one... and introducing accessibility for it is running this risk of competative advantage... and the question is, is this phobia a reasonable thing to take that compromise for? A scenario I would say should be supported if you suffer from a phobia is one that inhibits your ability to work, or function in life, that is fair, and deserves support.
However video games are a luxury, and where the disconnect occurs is when you say "'it’s a horror game' is not an argument at all", that isn't really true. Horror media by design is intended to provoke human fears, that is its purpose, and this is a fact you can't ignore... a horror fan WANTS to be scared, and the entire point of having a spider killer would be specifically to target the natural human fear of creatures that scuttle, which is a commonly evolved fear due to the fact a lot of scuttling creatures are poisonous/dangerous, and having gameplay altering effects arise that undermines that killer is an unnecessary issue in the eyes of someone who wants to be scared.
Even if there were no gameplay advantage, if the design of such a killer has to be compromised in order to accomodate a functional arachnophobia mode, then it similarly places constraints and limitations on what can be done for all the other players who are looking for that horror experience... and that does suck to say the rest of us can't have something, or have to take a milk toast version of it for the sake of people who are actively choosing to be part of said horror game, but are then placing constraints upon it.
As for why accessibility discussions tend to be met with harsh criticism, that is also likely an overcompensation when discussing this matter, because no one wants to be the one who is seen as intolerant. The word "accessibility" tends to get thrown around as a good way to straw man someone, and make them look completely unreasonable despite having quite valid and reasonable concerns under the guise of "tolerance", as it ultimately always results in their opinions don't matter compared to the "greater good"... which when you're passionate about something, it is a bitter pill to swallow when someone complains about a phobia, in media specifically intended to target phobias...
It'd be like turning up to a Tom and Jerry marathon premier and trying to insist the violence should be censored... it begs the question, what are you even doing here?
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
I dislike how much they flip-flop on accesibilty.
Because the game has so many anti-accesible things in it it hurts.
Colorblind people got screwed over with the new colors (yes I will complain about the colors again, you can't stop me), it took 9 years to get brightness options, they already have people with Emetophobia and Coulrophobia just having to deal with it, Spirit is a nightmare for hard of hearing people, ect.
Accesibility is NEVER a priority here. Never was and never will be.
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Honestly, as much as I want to see a spider-monster killer, I'm glad the next one is not a jorogumo.
DbD has three chapters based on japanese culture already, plus an entire skin line about it and even the Skull Merchant has japanese roots. As cool as japanese folklore is, there are other cultures and folklores in asia to be explored in the game.
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