http://dbd.game/killswitch
Would any of you be against the removal of the down voting system?
I read somewhere that there used to be no down vote button. Why did they made it when you know it's going to be abused.
Comments
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I don't think the downvotes really contribute to discussions, they more detract from them - people will downvote your comment but refuse to engage with it in any meaningful manner. I'd say, just remove it. Promotes nothing but frustration.
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I agree, they are just used to troll at worst, or just hate on those you don't like. Doesn't matter how articulate and correct a post might be, if it's not the popular opinion, it's going to get downvoted to oblivion and why? What purpose does it serve? If I said "Remove Doctor" and that got a million upvotes and 10 downvotes, would Doctor get removed? If I said Doctor is awesome and anyone that thinks he should be removed is wrong and I got 10,000 downvotes, would he get removed? No, that wouldn't happen in either case, so what purpose do the downvotes serve other than to troll and/or hate on comments you don't agree with?
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Any pro killer opinion here is down voted to the center of the Earth. It's plainly obvious. Even people bad mouthing Otz had positive up vote ratios
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No, get rid of it. Its was a bad idea adding it in the first place imo.
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I do like that it helps flag/deprioritize garbage content, but it has also made the “us vs them” toxicity worse than usual and I suspect there are some forums members with way too much free time on their hands to create alt accounts and mass downvote people they don’t like.
I think overall it’s made the forum a more toxic place, so I’m in favor of removing downvotes.9 -
I would be against it. Why? Because there are many takes that, even though do not break the forum rules, are so completely asinine and out of touch, that reporting them for trolling would be overreacting, and could cause for your own account to be banned for false flagging. And many times there's not even point to get into argument with these people and try to explain to them how wrong they are.
And second, there are many people who's first language isn't English. They might understand what they read, but they not necessarily know how to word things correctly. And knowing what this community is, and how they behave, I can't blame them why they don't want to write counterpoints.
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I hope they get removed again. It only leads to frustration
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Sure, but those whose first language is not English end up getting massive downvotes too when they do.
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Should remove both upvotes and downvotes
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Exactly the reason why not to respond then. It's not the downvote's fault, it's the community's fault
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The down votes don't really mean anything. You could provide the cure for cancer, and it would still have downvotes so... I don't really put any value in them.
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"if it's not the popular opinion, it's going to get downvoted to oblivion"
I suspect that's the point of it. The devs are using it as a form of feedback to get a feel for what the folks who aren't comfortable posting might be feeling. I personally don't have a preference either way, whether they stay or go. I'm not bothered by downvotes, I don't even pay attention to them.
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To me this is exactly the problem with them. They mean nothing to most of us, so why do they exist in the first place? Likely because the devs for some reason want them and this community especially, that's a problem.
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Downvotes are dumb reddit brain shizz. Delete it from the forums
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If you just look at the posts that have been downvoted on this thread, you can see that it is just being used to downvote comments people disagree with, rather than to vote for comments that are not contributing to the discussion.
This is an asymmetric game, a well-thought out, productive killer-sided opinion is at high risk of getting "ratiod", just for being a killer-sided opinion.
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Idk… i hate being downvoted… i like downvoting.
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I feel similarly, but I question if they may make a difference we don't realize. Like, yeah, people abuse it a lot… but does it have any impact whatsoever? Do the devs really make any choice based on a feedback post getting 10 downvotes on a community with thousands of people? It's hard to be sure of that, it doesn't sound relevant enough, but they probably brought this feature back for a reason.
I think the worst part of downvotes here is that they simply don't fit into a community where an "Us vs Them" mentality is so common. And I'm not even talking solely about killer mains vs survivor mains, I'm talking about discussions on any controversial character or playstile. Like, look at the comments on the Skull Merchant's rework, lots of the comments approving of the rework or even the initiative to rework her were being downvoted on the spot, to the point it was a little obvious that, even though some comments had valid criticism of the rework, there were other people on the thread that weren't commenting or trying to give feedback on the rework, but were downvoting everyone who even liked the idea of changing her.
Same thing about the Go Next Prevention. There are people on this forum that outright defend ragequitting without penalty with tooth and nail. There are threads were someone comments something as really simple as "giving up on first hook ruins the game for the other 3 survivors and shouldn't be allowed freely", 4 dislikes or more for "some reason", and for a while everyone who agrees or who's talking positively about the Go Next Prevention on the same thread get a similar amount of dislikes. It seems people use downvoting in an atempt to campaign against something.
Not to mention older DbD controversies like tunneling. People upvote or downvote any comments about this topic depending on the comment sounding killer-sided or survivor sided… and often the comments being downvoted are not even speaking in favor of anti-tunneling measures or against it, people may just say something as basic as "tunneling is not against the rules" and get downvoted. In the end, all the downvotes tell is that people on the forums are divided into groups with radically different opinions and some of them are particularly commited into downvoting any that diverges from theirs.
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Downvoting is mostly useless in a discussion setting because it doesn't give any feedback if it's anonymous. How can a person change course in discussion or change someone's view if they don't even have anything to contribute to the discussion. It's only used to silence opinions people don't like.
Upvoting on the other hand is very useful - You don't really need to add anything to the discussion as the person you are upvoting has basically spoken for you.
Downvoting only says someone didn't like your post but it doesn't really say Why. In a content creation setting this is fine but I find it is very distracting to proper discussion. Did a person get downvoted because they are not being agreed upon with someone they replied to? Was it because they have an unpopular opinion? Is someone just in general being a crybaby that someone dare had a different opinion? We don't know. If a comment is disruptive the person making the disruptive comment should be removed but other than that I can't really see a way to justify downvoting at least done anonymously. It adds nothing to the conversation. The person downvoting isn't going to have a different opinion to perhaps change their mind and people reading aren't going to know why a person has many downvotes.
You disagree with me or don't like my opinion? Cool I don't care as long as we can see eye to eye on something or in the very least remain civil. But if I look at a thread with maybe 5 post and a normal comment has 10 downvotes and no replies I'm disregarding those downvotes because they are useless along with all the people who made them.
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The problem with upvotes only, is that it creates an echo chamber. It makes comments and opinions look like majority of the people like it. And that is the first thing people will look at, despite the comments being in disagreement of the original post
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This is also true on echo chambers - However I do feel those who are typically silent should speak up. The reason a lot of echo chambers exist is because a lot of people remain silent and don't want to put effort speaking up because they are afraid of having the wrong opinion. Sometimes there are definitely things that are just wildly agreed upon and others not so much. However there are plenty of conversations I've seen that were dictated purely because no one spoke up until after the fact. I've seen it happen on this forum and a lot of other communities.
Regardless though - that is a great point but I feel it points out the other problem of voting systems. You can't really have an organic discussion when it's dictated by people not contributing to discussion. Although I do feel upvotes are less of a problem then downvotes because there's less of a question as to why at least for smaller post.
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You want this thread for more info on the decision when it happened.
It is a change from the point of view from a few years earlier.
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It's not being abused. It allows users that normally just lurk on the forums to share their opinions on certain topics at least to a certain degree. This can be useful for the devs to see what the "not so vocal" part of the community thinks
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Don't share your opinions if you are scared of someone down voting them. I have had my posts go both ways and it doesn't bother me at all. It's not something worth getting upset over.
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Becuase the downvote button is used as purely an "I do not agree" button, it doesn't actually add anything to the conversation, it's just an analogy to the mass opinion on the game at a time. And those opinions, imo, are more easily collected by bhvr during surveys and such, rather than gaguing off of a set gut reaction votes on a post.
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I don't think downvotes are a feature worth keeping. One need only look at reddit to see that downvoting is never used in the way it's intended to be used, but almost always used as a "I disagree" button or a "I don't like this post" button.
Downvotes create echo chambers, and make it much harder to gather feedback. If you say something unpopular, you're getting downvoted for it even if it is true. If you say something even remotely controversial, you're getting downvoted for it. You ask for advice, you're getting downvoted.
The way I see it, if you disagree with a take then you should either engage in discussion about it, or ignore it and move on. Why have a forum in the first place if it's just going to be a glorified polling booth?
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As much as the system can be used in an unconstructive way, it's also valid to see a post full of self-pity and insults, and just hit the thumbs down instead of leaving several paragraphs explaining why that person is wrong. Not everything is worthy of an extensive retort.
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Whats wrong someone downvote u to oblivion?
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It's not even just used to down vote opinions. I have seen people who simply are sharing their excitement that they got their first P100 character get down voted.
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And now you got two downvotes for saying this. I have no idea why someone would downvote this in first place, since you didn't even make a statement, only described something that happens in the forums. I guess there are people here just downvoting anything that implies there's a problem with the downvoting system.
Again, I have no idea if this can ultimately have any impact at all, but it is a little silly how downvoting became a way of pretty much campaigning against diverging opinions without offering any counterpoint.
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Apparently it's some sort of test.
But atp I'd like to know what the results of the test are. Is it gonna stay or not?
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I don't think it really provides much value past trolling and low effort hating.
I don't buy the whole "it's letting the not vocal part of the community be heard" argument. The devs could already see that from what got up voted and what didn't.
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People stating that they do or don't agree your take is abuse now? If you don't want others feedback, why post on a public forum?
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Feedback that's actually valuable is more than effectively just saying "I don't like this."
Disagreeing is fine, but if you want someone to take note of that you'll need to do more than click a button.
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If it's some sort of test, it's completely unnecessary. One need only look to reddit to measure the success of such a feature, and see how you can be downvoted just for asking a question despite that not being the intended use of downvotes.
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You would only want down voting removed if you don't want your opinions judged and interested only discussions with people that share the same view, an echo chamber is the absolute worst thing for any forum. Discouraging participation is the opposite of what you want. I say everything should have fair and equal participation, not only from people who you agree with.
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Downvotes were a genuinely awful addition to the Forums and should be removed.
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I would agree. The point of a forums is for meaningful conversations vs being a voting calculator.
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I think they forgot about the test
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Downvotes don't promote discussion. While upvotes don't do that either, you generally aren't going to upvote a post you don't agree with. Downvotes, on the other hand, are used for a myriad of reasons. Not the least of which is simply not liking the post.
It's more than evident that downvotes are used to create echo chambers where the only valid topics for discussion are ones that are popular and widely agreed-upon within the community.
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That’s why there is a reply function. People can use that to disagree. Instead, now they can just disagree and judge in a cowardly, anonymous way without providing any explanation for why they disagree.
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Not at all.
I've been downvoted and and no replies. I don't find it frustrating because I don't want my opinion judged I find it frustrating because I want my opinion judged. I want discussion as to why my opinion is wrong. How can I examine my own opinions if people don't engage but just put in a downvote.
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It doesn't bother me personally, it gives people a way to disagree with something without having to outright reply and say "I disagree." I presume that's what the intention behind adding it back was. It's another form of 'forum engagement' let's say.
And It's not like reddit where if your opinion or hot take upsets too many people your message just gets hidden like it doesn't exist.
Sometimes a simple 'I disagree' is enough in the same way an upvote is a good way of simply saying 'I agree' if that makes sense. If I see someone make a post like "all killer/survivor mains should be shot out of a cannon into the sun", a simple downvote would suffice for that imo.
Being a bit hyperbolic for comedy there but you get the idea.
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I agree, if someone comes in and says something silly a downvote is enough. The issue I have is that every comment that has been downvoted of mine, I feel has been reasonable comments. Like I wrote in my previous comment I would much prefer a reply than a downvote so I can think about why maybe someone would disagree with me.
I just suspect a lot of people do it to be trolls.
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I totally get what you mean yeah.
I wouldn't take it to heart though honestly, if someone genuinely takes issue with one of your ideas or posts I'm sure they'll take the time to respond with why.
There might be people who just downvote anything that favours a side they dislike and so on. Hard to really take that seriously.
Plus if the system's still meant to be a 'test' it might still end up being disabled in the future. The forums were completely fine without it at the end of the day.
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I'm with you Piggy!
I remember a simpler time when there was no downvotes0 -
I dunno, I wasn't really a fan when they first implemented it, but I've gotten used to it.
There's a lot on here that falls into the category of the "bullshit asymmetry principle" where it's far, far easier to spew nonsense than it is to collect the data to debunk it.
It's been kinda nice to not have random bait constantly getting bumped to the top of the forum and just downvoting it and letting it fall off the front page into obscurity.
There are, unfortunately, a lot of opinions on here that are insanely biased, inflammatory, or just flat out denying reality, and sometimes you just don't want to engage with those people to say that you disagree. Most of them won't change their mind even if you do respond.
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My thoughts exactly, but you worded it better
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I support removal of the downvote button.
Ever since it was added it just discourages discussion and encourages triablism and downvoting people you disagree with instead of discussing with them. This forum does not need to get any closer to reddit imo.
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They can/should just do the same with upvotes, imo.
Taking the reddit route of making downvoted hide/obscure content just leads to everything being one sided as posts against the “popular” opinion (whatever that may be) are instantly hidden and the forum becomes a circlejerk.
As for the bait better and more consistent moderation should deal with that. Maybe give users the option to hide content from our view if we can’t already.
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