http://dbd.game/killswitch
Scott Jund makes a good point about Springtrap
- All the distinct things are kinda not worth going for because optimal and generic&boring play is just this much more consistent
- Cameras are not worth it because there are plenty of other clues to go off anyway
- Doors are nice but people are figuring out prerunning with built-in clues and it's going to get worse
- Doors are kinda too good for gen control but the killer is overall too mid for that to be a problem
- Orbitals are unreasonably hard to go for even though they are the coolest part about him while zoning is too easy
I would add from myself that I think door grabs are way too random to really happen so survivors dont really feel like they need to be too strategic when using doors and there's just not much room for interaction there even though there could be a lovely dynamic if springtrap was fully aware when a door teleport happens.
I dont think this killer really needs big changes, though I would make door grabs much less reliable on a wild guess and more reliable on a position, i'd make his own teleport more telegraphed and Im definitely on with the idea of reducing holding speed and making hitbox bigger if you throw in an arc.
Comments
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All the distinct things are kinda not worth going for because optimal and generic&boring play is just this much more consistent
Without having to watch the video. What are we taking about with this bullet point?
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Going for stuff like orbitals or the jumpscare grabs or stealth ambushing isnt as consistent then remembering "hey im 20% faster than huntress just holding my axe. Let me just chase down a survivor with it out and they either get hit or lose enough distance for a m1"
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sure… but can't you say this about every killer?
"the cool thing is cool, but the more efficient thing is to not do it."
who does this not apply to?
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pretty much.
going for cool ######### is insanely punishing and unrewarding when novelty effect wears off and if you dont you just play default midrange zoner with bigger range and gen control.
genuinely unfun.
all the cool things about this kit that are supposed to be the selling points are not worth it or dont work.
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Exactly. Springtrap has a litany of different aspects to his kit, but literally none of it matters in 90% of chases. Every single chase is just Springtrap holding M2 and forcing you into a permanent mindgame until they hit you, then doing it again.
The door cameras don't matter. The stealth matters less and less the more people get used to him (as long as he isn't using the P2W Glitchtrap skin). Getting a grab from a door is a 1/100 event and requires survivors who are straight up oblivious. The axe gravity being different means basically nothing except that short range axes over loops are even easier to hit than Huntress. The 110 vs 115 movement speed means nothing because Springtrap has complete control over whether he has the axe or not, and can leave it on the ground and recall it at will to always control his speed for the situation.8 -
to most of them..?
unknown still has to play around ricochet logic and can always punish bad positioning and just get unique value from TPing
vecna's core gameplay is unique
dracula's gimmicks are minor and intergrated in core gameplay
ghoul has to do his form of movement based bodyblocking to be efficient
xenomorph's gimmicks are minor and part of the core gameplay
singularity's core gameplay is unique and you have to go for cool ######### to succeed
and so on.
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The axe gravity is literally only good for the most basic arc throws that might as well be straight line shots.
everything else really does require survivors to be completely clueless or going out of their way to interact with it.
most of the time people just default to being boring and avoiding all interaction because there's jack ######### you can reasonably do about it.
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Your 20% faster than Huntress while aiming I assume? 3.08m/s vs 3.68m/s.
Still slower than the survivor base speed 4.0m/s but can't throw as far. The slower speed of the Huntress is probably do to the projectile distance (nearly map wide) and the speed (40m/s). Springtrap can only throw 16m at 30m/s.
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Freddy, I guess.
He doesn't have anything cool, meaning you don't worry about the cool thing you cannot do because there is nothing cool to do.
-3 -
Yeah both when holding the axe. Hes obviously not faster than her walking lol.
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you miss the point.
it's not about being better than huntress.
it's about it being unreasonably better than all what distincts him from her.
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The issue, as mentioned in the video, is that even though on paper you are slower than the survivor, they will never run in a straight line because doing so guarantees they get hit.
If the survivor runs in a straight line they immediately get axed. If they attempt to dodge the axe and you just keep holding M2 then they lose distance and eventually just get M1'd or hit with the axe at point blank range. They have literally no winning play unless they are at a high wall loop/gym. Either they continuously dodge to waste time and avoid handing you the axe hit, inevitably losing distance and eventually getting M1'd, or they run in a straight line and get hit instantly. You also make every window/pallet a guaranteed injury, meaning the survivors quite literally have no outs if they can't find a high wall loop/gym.6 -
He is without the axe giving him 4.6m/s. Which I find easier than trying to hit survivors with an axe.
In time, with how the axe works, I see players learning how to throw over tall loops and hitting survivors.
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From a Huntress main I find that a bit odd. In the open, which is the scenario, Huntress would be far stronger.
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https://x.com/AfroM1_/status/1935879468834603280
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Cameras are stronger than you think if you are 4 man alive ( not meaning you paly with friends for 4man) and you have like 2 gens left when killers can tunnel someone one guy can reveal hih with cameras trough walls and there almost nothing killer can do about, now survivors have wallhacks on him and its much harder to get the guy in the chase with any mind game or trick shot trough window etc.
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sorry, did you hear me say cool thing and understood gameplay?
I'm talking about space billy(rip buddy), long range and/or orbital hatchets, hug tech, 360s, hitting the redeemer shot on a 3 pixel hole… THOSE are the cool things, and also very often less efficient than just playing normally.
I know how it feels… I miss being able to jump on top of random stuff with pig or demo… so many invisible walls
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Eh it is perfectly fine for aspects of a killer's kit to be completely optional. If the only way to get value out of Springtrap's power was to go for orbitals all the time then he wouldn't be fun to play and if he was just another killer where you have to go and interact with his pre-placed item every 30 seconds or die then he probably wouldn't be fun to play against.
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I share the same thoughts. If the best way to play as Springtrap involves going for orbital shots, I would stop playing as him. I do agree with Scott regarding Springtrap's strength—he's not an overly strong killer, and if he were to be nerfed (which he doesn’t need), it would make him feel extremely frustrating to play. I can see Bonnie's guitar strings getting nerfed or being made a higher rarity, but honestly, that's about it.
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I find it hilarious that even scott manages to identify how easy it is to prerun springtrap with all the cues he gives but somehow people still think his tp is hard to detect lmao.
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That's my thought for most killers... and then I see videos of ppl doing stuff that I didn't even know was possible and I know I'll never duplicate. The guy who can shoot shots through the tiniest hole as Deathslinger will be way deadlier than the guy who can only go for the most predictable shots at loops. The guy who can do orbital and cross map shots as Huntress will be way deadlier than the guy who can only hit shots from midrange.
Point being... the fancy stuff doesn't have to be the only tool you use to be useful. Having another tool in your toolbag is not a bad thing. It can definitely be rewarding to practice the weird orbital shots just so you arnt so easily read and you can whip them out when appropriate.
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Wraith
Billy
Nurse
Myers
Hag
Doctor
Huntress
Bubba
Clown
Spirit
Plague
Ghost Face
Demogorgon
Oni
Slinger
Executioner
Blight
Twins (for the one (1) patch they worked)
Nemesis
Cenobite
Artist
Wesker
Singularity
Vecna
Dracula
Houndmaster
Kaneki"Cool thing" as you're using it (ie space billy) is not the same "cool thing" as was used in the OP (using the killer's kit instead of just walking/chasing)
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To add onto his bit about the cameras, I think a good incentive to use them is actually revealing him even if he's Undetectable (but maybe reduce the range?) since right now its kinda useless with how often he's able to enter stealth
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current freddy can insta down you if rng is in your favor with dream pallets and hit timing.
it's just extremely rare
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they would have to buff him a lot because in his current state he is beatable without even engaging with the counter mechanics.
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I know he mentioned adding a shockwave to orbitals but I wonder if all they really need to do is reduce the cooldown of recall when attempting an orbital.
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that could work too - if axe spends more than certain amount of time in the air, the cooldown is tremendously reduced.
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how are orbitals not a cool thing?
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Orbitals are unreasonably hard to go for
Okay, but you can't really have consistent orbitals or he immediately becomes broken as hell. Being able to ignore obstacles is why Nurse is in her own tier and never coming down from there.
-2 -
why do you immediately jump to "consistent" when all that is being asked for is reducing the difficulty because precisely blindshotting a projectile with narrow hitbox that has a reactable flying delay is not very reasonable for killer's main gimmick that distincts him from the closest counterpart?
this is just disingenuous way of dismissing valid criticism of unbalanced skill requirement.
-2 -
Cameras & Doors were what I was looking at considering they're 3 of the 4 points but w/e
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Said that Springtrap is a weak B- tier killer from the day 1.
Way too many counters for a character that is only good against inexperienced or oblivious survivors.
-1 -
that was always kinda obvious but i was just hoping he would be a B tier character whose gimmicks actually matter
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"Orbitals are unreasonably hard to go for even though they are the coolest part about him while zoning is too easy"
Op literaly complains that the cool part is too hard. I said that applies to every killer with a cool thing.
-1 -
they also say this
- - Cameras are not worth it because there are plenty of other clues to go off anyway
- - Doors are nice but people are figuring out prerunning with built-in clues and it's going to get worse
- - Doors are kinda too good for gen control but the killer is overall too mid for that to be a problem
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no it doesnt?
unknown's bounce logic is fundamental to playing him and wallbangs and other stuff is pretty trivial to do.
singularity's whole skill expression past certain point is about successfully utilizing chainball logic which is an integral part of playing him.
xenomorph is fundamentally playing different from other midrange m2s because of his stats and fundamentally has to deal with turrets
and so on.
meanwhile all things that make springtrap unique at base level are either detrimental or hyperniche at best.
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can I not reply to just one thing?
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pretty sure you can understand that bouncing on the wall is different than doing a trick shot? right?
ok… is that the cool thing of singularity for you?
dude… what do you think "cool things" are? pressing m2 on nurse?
his teleport is great. his axe allows for a quick down on the correct circunstances. how are these detrimental or niche?
-1 -
great so by your logic the only reason to play springtrap is for incredibly detrimental trickshots which, again, takes us back to the original point "why play this killer if you dont enjoy throwing games going for disproportionately difficult plays"?
there's nothing else that distincts him from similar killers besides ballistic.
teleport is mediocre, there's nothing special about it because the interaction that's meant to make it special (the whole grab thing that is what supposedly justifying survivors having access to mobility they by all means dont deserve against this killer) is ALSO reliant on wild guessing and throwing games.
stealth is mediocre because it doesnt work vs people with headphones who prerun EVEN if you try to snipe them with an axe from distance.
this is just bad. all he is good at is zoning and camping gens.
-1 -
no. that is not at all what I said.
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