http://dbd.game/killswitch
Survivor Is Unplayable
I already knew BHVR didn't care about Survivors, but this latest update just further proves it. It's unplayable now.
- You get crows even when you're moving. Heck, I ended up with three while trying to open the Exit Gate because I had to do it slowly, since I was against Springtrap, and since his doors spawn next to the generators, he was easily keeping tabs on both doors. Not an issue with Springtrap, I actually enjoy facing him, but the crow system is ridiculous. I understand it's necessity - some survivors do just go idle. But having them spawn after that short a time when, 9 times out of 10, the Killer is literally right in front of you is stupid.
- You can't attempt to unhook yourself. I get they removed this ability because people kept killing themselves, but instead of addressing why these players were doing it, they decided to just punish everyone who plays survivor.
- If you get tunneled out, you can now receive a ban thanks to their braindead decision to make it to where, if you die too quickly, then the system decides that you were throwing. Once again, it's like no one on the dev team plays the game or has a brain - Dying fast does not mean you were throwing when they allow and encourage tunneling.
- The "anti-camping" mechanic continues to not work, and even turns off once the generators are all done, which is beyond stupid. The end game is the most likely time that the Killer will camp, so why do they get to be rewarded for it? All Survivors can try to do is get their teammate off the hooks, which becomes a Herculean task against most of the Killers. And I know people will bring up "Oh, but Survivors get the Hatch if it's down to one person," well the Killer can find it, often faster than the Survivor unless they get lucky, and then the Killer can close it. And even worse, when it's not the end game, it fills up at a snail's pace, and has a small radius, making it completely pointless.
- The "anti-tunneling" system continues to be pointless, since some Killers, like Leatherface, can just go right through it, and for everyone else it's just a minor inconvenience.
- The "anti-slugging" mechanic is by far the most braindead - Ah, yes, you know what will make Killers stop slugging? Make it to where they're encouraged even further to slug. Why, exactly, would anyone with any level of common sense think adding a "Give up" feature fix the problem? All it's done is make it worse.
- Wiggling continues to be a pointless feature. I've been carried halfway across the map multiple times without being able to wiggle out, even when hitting it perfectly. If the system isn't going to matter, then remove it.
- Finally, I understand they made it to where Survivors now spawn together because Killer were complaining about "gen rushing," - which is a stupid thing to complain about since doing generators is literally the only thing Survivors can even do - but the fact the Killer can, and often does, spawn right next to the Survivors is stupid. If the Survivors have to spawn together, then the Killer should spawn on the other side of the map to make it fair.
And I know plenty of people won't agree with me, and frankly, I don't care. This game is only fun as the Killer - the fact they even have to coax people to play Survivor with Bloodpoints should be a wake up call for BHVR, yet they don't think it's weird that few people even want to play the role. Gee, maybe if you make the game fair and balanced, more people would be open to playing either role. Instead, they prefer making the Killer overpowered, while Survivors barely get anything. And even when Survivors get something good, Killer mains complain and get it nerfed or removed.
Comments
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It's pretty pathetic that BHVR implemented this, especially with all the different gen blocking perks . I've gotten crows because of dead mans switch, especially in late when when one person is gone and there's more of an emphasis on evading.
Maybe it will be fine depending on the changes BHVR makes to camping/tunneling, but if they don't curb those low skilled playstyles, the AFK crows in their current implementation will kill Surv role. 2.50x xp is barely enough to tolerate all the crap SoloQ has to endure.
20 -
Currently waiting for it to be reverted, but we'll see.
15 -
I haven't touched survivor since the recent update, though that was more a solo issue for me rather than the game play itself. Been maining Killer for the most part and will likely pick up survivor once a new update comes out in regards to any potential afk or go next changes.
9 -
The afk points system is pretty bad
Can't address why people hook suicide when a good portion of those people do it just because they don't like the killer. Others have one bad chase and decide they'd rather go next. There's nothing bhvr can do to address that.
Didn't they killswitch the go next detection system?
The anti-face camping mechanic is doing exactly as advertised. It's supposed to be disabled in the endgame since the killer has no gens left at that point, and camping a survivor in the endgame secures a kill.
The point of wiggling is so that the killer can't just hook you in the basement every time, not to give you a genuine option to break free (though I'd argue it should, and I miss the bonus progression from hitting great skill checks)
It's not as though bhvr doesn't care about the survivor experience. Sometimes things don't work out and that's okay. They care about both sides of the player base, but it's impossible to please one without upsetting the other.
-11 -
I completely agree that the AFK crows is terrible and needs to be nuked, but survivor isn’t “unplayable”. The average escape rate for solo queue is 40%. I’m by no means a great player and I manage to escape around 40% of the time according to my stats. I just played three solo queue matches tonight and escaped all three. I have some unfun stretches, but some good ones too.
What is your escape rate? If it’s near or above the 40% average, the problem isn’t game balance - it’s your expectations. If you’re escaping below the average, then work in improving your gameplay. If a casual, middle-aged player like myself can do it, anyone can.-9 -
Good luck. Survivor things just stay. But if they put a window in Badham or Survivors gain a little extra vault distance and that stuff is gone so fast.
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I don't care about escaping, I care about having fun. I can just as easily have fun losing as I can escaping - that's not the issue. The issue is how unbalanced the experience has become, to the point where it's damn near impossible to even have fun in defeat, and where escaping barely feels enjoyable either. Survivor has become a chore thanks to all the reasons I listed, because BHVR thinks it's more important for the Killer to have fun than it is for everyone to have fun.
There's nothing fun about being camped, there's nothing fun about being tunneled, there's nothing fun about being slugged, and there's nothing fun about any of the changes they made this patch. Yet, BHVR doesn't care - they even encourage Killers to do these toxic strategies, while Killer mains complain about "Gen Rushing," which is the dumbest claim of toxicity out there.
Additionally, there's nothing fun or fair about the fact that, with their new DC penalty / banning system. Yes, if you DC you should be punished, but being forced to sit in the game while your penalty goes on is beyond braindead. And the fact you can be banned for dying within a certain amount of time is also stupid as all heck. I've already seen how people have had to deal with this when all they suffered was being tunneled out quickly by the Killer. One side should never have the ability to get someone else punished by the system. It's like BHVR never thinks these patches through.
And it's not like the AFK crows weren't complained about from the PTB - BHVR just didn't care, making the whole point of the PTB null.
19 -
That's why this game is losing players at a rate faster than literally anything else on the market? Killer queue times are at a bare minimum of 5 minutes at every time of day. No one is playing this game because of how disgustingly unfun the MAJORITY of the game is. killers are being fed on a silver platter, and then complain every single time they don't get a 4k that it was an SWF (which btw, it isn't, it never was and it never will be). Killers got 4 changes ALONE this patch that made them even stronger for absolutely no reason, they already are excelling with kill rate and survivors escape rates are already below what the devs want. Slugging and tunneling happen in half of all games. 50% of all players who even logged on during the release of the chapter have already left. But enjoy your queues as they go into the sky I guess?
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I agree with all of that and, yeah, things have been grim on survivor side lately. I'm a mid-ish survivor and I'm getting slugged about every five games, often with 0 to 1 gens done. I'm a worse killer and I get 4k against significantly better players. They need four times the amount of players picking survivor yet they make the killer experience easier and better. I get that the IP killers bring in the money but I think people will still play those killer even if it isn't a guaranteed 4k.
Post edited by cogsturning on12 -
It's pretty much complete proof that this is the case. IP killers don't need to be 4k every game, Michael, Ghostface, Pyramid Head all have very decent playerbases that play them almost exclusively. They don't even spend a ton of money on the game, because their killers have almost no cosmetics. But instead of balance we get 2 killers back to back dominating lobbies that do the most annoying and unfun strats in the game and core game changes they go directly in the killers favor 100% of the time. Instead of fixing the reason Survivors would go next constantly (minimal killer/map bans, making solo queue more enjoyable, tunneling/slugging fixes) we get half baked AFK detection (that wasn't needed outside of fringe scenarios) and "Go Next Prevention" that was so well tested it caused hundreds of people to get warnings and penalties for being tunneled. On top of Springtrap not having any of his bugs fixed for over a week, all that work entirely in his favor, some even being completely gamebreaking, just shows how little the Survivor experience seems to matter to BHVR.
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I have the same playtime on both killer and survivor, nothing I said was a lie, and yes actually, 50% player drop off after a week is absolutely atrocious! Tunneling is not even remotely close to being required, it is the path of least resistance, do I have to remind that this is a party game? There are hundreds of competitive games out there that people to need to win every single game can go play without bullying players out of the game constantly. Killers need to have maps they are bad on (average kill rate for every killer on every map is still 60%+ btw) that is how balance works, if every killer was good on every single map then you would get 4ks every game (what people are already doing anyway). Not to mention if tunneling was a "necessary" thing to do as you say, then BHVR wouldn't be actively changing it. Player enjoyment and satisfaction with the game is always more important than kill rates and escape rates. If people don't have fun, they quit. Survivors haven't been having fun for years. Being killed after playing the game for less than 5 minutes is never fun. Killers always get to play a full game out, survivors don't.
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- The AFK crow system can be overturned in edge cases like this one or a Cenobite with corrupt intervention who starts a chain hunt early. It is still overall an improvement.
- "instead of addressing why these players were doing it" Here is a few examples for why I have seen people go next: It's a Legion, It's a Clown, It's a Wraith, It's a Ghoul, It's a Kaneki, It's a Hillbilly, It's a Cenobite, It's a Dredge, It's a Vecna, It's a Skull Merchant, they were AFK for 30 seconds and during that time the killer downed them, the killer avoided a flashlight save, they were hooked first, etc... - There isn't one big reason why everyone goes next. 90% it's just like "This match wasn't catered to me personally", which you can't solve in a 1v4.
- Pretty sure they disabled that.
- The killer can't do much else. There are 2 gates that each take a mere 20 seconds to open meaning, unless you have an end game build, you can't really defend them. The killer can't really do anything in the end game. You can't patrol gates effectively and you definitely can't kick them like gens. Getting a hook and watching it is the only thing you really can do. Is the killer just supposed to stand in a corner and let the Survivors escape once the endgame started. Also you said that Hatch is a bad comparison because the killer usually finds it first, as if the Survivors can't usually coordinate a successful unhook.
- No idea what you mean by that. Do you mean Basekit BT?
- How does that encourage slugging further? Going for the 4 man slug is as hard as ever, and sure Survivors can quit now they don't have to. I actually have seen way less 4 man slugs since this system was implemented.
- Wiggling is supposed to only be useful with Sabo/Bodyblocks. If every map had placed you could always wiggle out from, that would be stupid.
- If the killer spawns near you, unless they run lethal pursuer, that is good for you. They will assume Survivors are far away and walk across the entire map.
-7 -
Looks like your getting downvoted for common sense... i fully agree with everything you say. When trapper is in the current state he is then survivor is playable for sure. Just dont go in soloq expecting your "team" to carry your ass you shoudnt trust your team in ANY pvp game (unless with people you know)
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"Multiple patches in a row that exclusively make killer stronger" Let's look at the past few patches:
9.0: This patch added a new Killer without any Survivor which one might argue is killer sided by itself. It also nerfed map offerings and added more consistent spawn rules. However, it also added the Freddy Fazbear map, which is pretty Survivor sided. Overall killer sided, yes. Exclusive killer sided, no.
8.7: They added a new Survivor, which one could argue is inherently Survivor sided. They slightly buffed Oni, but nerfed Ghoul and Houndmaster. Far from exclusively killer sided. I would say Survivor sided even.
8.6 This patch added a new Killer without any Survivor which one might argue is killer sided by itself. They also added a new map which has a slightly above average killrate. On the other hand they made exit gates harder to observe for killers and added the abandon feature. Overall killer sided, but not exclusively.
8.5 They reworked Freddy to be stronger, which one might argue is Killer sided. However they omega nerfed Deep Wounds and omega buffed Vigil into an S Tier perk. I would argue this patch was balanced, if not Survivor sided.
8.4 They added a new Killer and a new Survivor. The Survivor brought Shoulder the Burden, one of the most powerful perks in the game. They added minor buffs to a lot of killers, nerfed Dracula and buffed perks (from both sides). They improved the Survivor HUD, massively making communication between Survivors easier. Shoulder the Burden and the HUD very easily make the patch Survivor sided in my eyes.
And before you reply, remember the take I am arguing against is that they had "multiple patches in a row that exclusively make killer stronger."
A drop off after a high player spike is to be expected. The numbers for April and May for example have been higher than the ones for these two months ever. The numbers for January and February are also higher than they were last year. This game isn't gaining players at an immense rate, but it isn't loosing players either.
I don't like comp dbd, but have you ever watched a comp match. Killers slug, tunnel and camp all the time. And a lot of time Survivors still win. Yeah it isn't always required, but if you don't want a coordinated SWF to get free wins it usually is.
Have you played Party Games before? I have never ever seen anyone be like "Oh I already have 4 stars and you have 0, I am going to let you win this game." Party games are casual with comeback mechanics build in by design. They don't have to rely on letting others win to be fun.
The killrate thing is wrong. The Devs rarely post complete official stats, but according to nightlight (the biggest community stats collection). Since 8.7.0 ALL maps have an under 60% average killrate, and over the past month the Nightmare is the only killer with an above 60% killrate. There are even 12 killers with a below 50% killrate, including the Nurse and the Blight. So do these killers need a buff?
"If tunneling wasn't necessary BHVR wouldn't be changing it" BHVR adds stupid changes all the time. Just look at the fact that the go next system flags new players dying too early.
Well the player numbers are staying the same, of not slightly growing. So people must be having fun.
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Survivor isn't even close to unplayable, good lord man. I barely play survivor and got a 60%+ escape rate since the new patch myself.
Y'all love to blow stuff out of proportion.
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I don't get why they dont do more money-only and licensed survivor outfits. I'm generally anti-micro transaction but I've come to accept that, if it keeps the game going, I can throw them a few bucks here and there. I dress my main up like a doll and I'm always bummed by the lack of good options. I was hoping for FNAF stuff like security or pizza place uniforms or whatever (I don't know much about this franchise) but what did we get? A boring t-shirt.
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I haven't had any issues. I haven't gotten crows once yet, maybe because i don't hide much.
I don't try to kill myself on first hook and ruin the game for 3 others so not being able to do that hasn't bothered me.
I don't really see many " face camping " killers, and wiggling shouldnt give you easy escape from the killers grasp. Oh i remember the days when survivors sent killers to old RPD with their boil over builds. It was fun slugging them up in the library.
My escape rate from 73 matches is almost 50% and with another character from 28 matches its 53% so i really don't see the issue. These rates i got from their official tracker. Wish the site would update more often.
2 -
I just got swarmed by crows during a match with nemi. We were at 1 gen left, it was about 95% done, and while he was in chase with another survivor the zombie was hanging around. I would go from one side of the gen to the other over and over again, anytime the zombie got close I would move to the other side. Slowly making progress. I got 2 crows for it… felt pretty bad ngl.
5 -
The incidence of survivors contracting crows during seemingly innocuous activities is alarming. Crows are spreading at an unprecedented rate. It is clear that we, the people of the Entity's realm, must come together to find a way to stop the spread of the public health crisis these crows represent.
It will take the effort of survivors and killers alike. We'll need The Blight's deep knowledge of alchemy, Orela's medical expertise, Mikaela's magic, and David's ability to just punch the birds as they accumulate. Ace is not permitted within 10 miles of the mitigation effort, lest he gamble our efforts away.
But for real though, it's messed up to get crows when you're on a gen or doing the exit gate...
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I like the way you wrote this 🤭 very poetic Smurf, makes me want to paint my face and start speaking in sonnets <3
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lol I was trying to write it like an old-timey leader on the radio à la 1920's to 40's style. Glad it kinda worked :D
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Not even an ornithologist?? tsk tsk
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I have to say that I should have seen that coming :)
We can call in The Artist. Her knowledge of all things bird might rival yours. Or she might just like birds...
2 -
I don't understand this. I haven't gotten crows once since the update. Do your job maybe.
-4 -
i don't get crows playing survivor
-7 -
As someone that neither actively plays nor follow s the updates closely I have some questions:
- How long were you working on the gen before switching sides?
- Did you ONLY move around the gen?
Because if you only progressed the gen for a second or less and only crouched around the gen, I would say crows are warranted.
I guess this new crow system is to combat the endless hiding strategy where survivor would drop+pickup items, tap gens or move a few feet to laughable easily avoid crows.
-4 -
Forget the obvious?
2 -
What if she's behind the crow epidemic? 🐦⬛🐦⬛🐦⬛
3 -
I've been away for a year or so and just came back. One thing I noticed is how tiny a lot of the maps are now. I was playing demo on shattered square and realized about midway through that I was just patrolling gens without bothering to use the portals I dropped. I could get from one end of the map to the other just by walking fast enough that using the portal system felt like a waste of time. I can't see how survivors are expected to accomplish much when I'm literally moments away from each of them at all times.
All but one match I felt like I was steamrolling the survivors. For those matches, the escapes were mainly because I was sick of being steamrolled as a survivor and intentionally made sub-optimal plays so they wouldn't feel as stomped as I did.
Since queue times and bp bonuses have leaned favorably toward survivors (and since I play both sides), I've been spending most matches as a survivor. With how small the maps are and everyone spawning together I've experienced more accidental body blocking in the past 2 days than I remember experiencing all together in my prior play time. It seems like every other chase I end up running the killer right into a gen that's being worked on by someone because where the hell else am I going to go - the map's for ants.
I have only had a couple instances where I got a crow. Once where I was at a gate I 99'd and once where I was trying to avoid catching the eye of a heavily patrolling killer. A big crow shaped arrow flying around my head isn't exactly what I need when I'm trying to avoid being spotted but I guess looping and gen rushing are now preferred to any sort of stealth or avoidance plays.
One thing I have noticed is it's another thing I'm constantly worried about during a match. I was dragging a Nemesis zombie over to a pallet from a gen and the whole time I was thinking - oh man, I wish this zombie would hurry up, I'm going to get crows. Not getting crows has become a primary objective. Any play to increase my odds of escape or even just for fun is weighed against that ticking clock now.
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Nah, hopping in a locker for half a second REPELS her crows, not summons them.
4 -
the new AFK system is awful I was in chase with one of knights guards and ended up with 3 crow's over my head whilst running and in other cases I'd go far away from the killer to heal and I'd get crows.
3 -
Good thing it's getting majorly nerfed here in 15 minutes.
0 -
Didn't they talk about removing the camp timer after all gens are finished when the anti-camp update first came out? They removed it because the killer has no gens to patrol so their only objective is to get kills alone. I mean survivors still get built-in BT after you're unhooked. It's easy for survivors to tank hits to get a save. Especially since they have increased the hook timer. It use to be a lot shorter.
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lol Would have been funny (and maybe a little infuriating) if getting crows like that led us into some kind of anniversary event effect. Like if there were anniversary crows in matches who did real stuff.
Then we might discover that Tryks was behind it all along :)
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Right now survivor is unplayable because every match is against a killer that gets to teleport right on top of you with absolutely zero warning.
-1 -
The devs WOULD blame Tryks for everything...
"You know how Springtrap has been bugged for the last 2 weeks? Tryks did THAT too!!!"
1 -
Ah, okay. Well, since you stated that you haven't played in a bit or stayed super current on the updates, I'm unsure if you've heard of some of the issue with the new system? If you're unsure or haven't heard I can go into more detail with it, and I believe at one point it had to be kill swtiched because it was giving undeserved punishments out by flagging alot of false positives. There's lots of layers to the problems with the system as a whole, but just to explain what happened with me specifically in this instance:
I was working on the gen and then the zombie came to the side I was working on, so then I ran around the small haybale (? I think it was, idk it was something small that blocked one end of the gen) so that I could work on the other side. The zombie would of course, follow me. I couldn't stay on one side for too long because then I would get an injury. I didn't want to abandon the gen because it was 95% finished, it was the last gen, and the killer was occupied in a chase. It didn't make sense to abandon the gen, I don't think leaving the gen would have been the right call. I would constantly move from one side of the gen to the other and work on both sides, only moving when I had to, to avoid getting hit by the zombie. I never crouched and did nothing, or just sat there. I was consistently working on the gen but for small bursts because, well, I was forced to because of the Zombie.
Obviously, I don't believe I did anything wrong in this situation. I don't agree that I should have been punished with crows for being "afk" when I was not, in fact, AFK. I was actively progressing the gen as best as I could until completion. I don't think I should have been penalized for not playing the game when I was playing the game.
(edit some spelling stuff)2
