Kill Switch update: We have temporarily Kill Switched the Forgotten Ruins Map due to an issue that causes players to become stuck in place. The Map will remain out of rotation until this is resolved.

http://dbd.game/killswitch

Boons

I agree, boons could use some love. Not sure how, but Skrump makes some good points.

Comments

  • Shirtless_Myers
    Shirtless_Myers Member Posts: 480

    Boons should have unique colors depending on the perk used. Too many times, you'll expect Circle of Healing to be in play, and it ends up being something else. If multiple boons are in play, create a rainbow totem of the various boon colors picked.

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,391

    Problem was with circle of healing how strong that perk was 15 seconds for free selfcare and team healing speed, working trough 2 floors so killers with no mobility could only sweat more and funniest thing you could apply perk on the same totem with no penalty and that perk was stronger than most hexes now imagine if killer coul just spawn hex devour hope on new totem every time it gets destroyed or blood favor and best thing is you get rid of the boon and totem was still there.

  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 2,843

    I'm hurting now that I can't throw up indoor levels every game for boons

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 9,617

    The problem is, boon perks aren't bad. Bear with me, I have more of a point than just that.

    Outside of the conversation about vertical range, there's nothing wrong with the overall framework for boons, it's completely workable. It probably could be changed in a few ways, but there's no pressing need for it to be changed.

    The individual boon perks, too, are doing pretty fine. Circle of Healing is a REALLY good perk, Exponential CAN be a really good perk if you get a bit lucky, Shadow Step is extremely serviceable and potentially very impactful depending on context… and then sure, Dark Theory is only "okay" and Illumination is actually weak, but we can clearly see the majority of boon perks are completely fine.

    What boon perks are is unpopular. In previous conversations on the topic, when I bring up that Circle of Healing is really strong, it's not uncommon for someone to go screenshot Nightlight's pickrate for it and post that, either implying or outright stating that somehow contradicts the statement. It doesn't, though- the perk's just damn good. In a SWF it's top tier, and in solo queue it's a little inconsistent but still on average very strong. It's pretty self evident why- it halves healing times for the entire team as long as they're healing in one area on the map, which is conveniently shown to them with a glowing blue totem surrounded by a glowing blue light show.

    There are a myriad of reasons why a perk might not be picked much even though it's very strong. For Circle of Healing, it wouldn't be absurd to suggest that the need for setup, the restrictive range, the inconsistency in solo queue, and the fact that people broadly tend to drop any formerly-OP perk that get nerfed down to just "very strong" would all play some part in its low pickrate. Minus the last part, those all apply to the other boons too; Shadow Step is totally fine and a potentially scary perk to buff, but you need to set it up, it has a restrictive range, the team element is inconsistent in solo queue… so on and so forth.

    Why this is relevant is because it puts BHVR in a sticky spot. Say they want to revitalise boons- well, they can't just buff boons, because that'd make them OP, but they also can't balance the boons to just be good because… well, that's where we are now, and people act like we're not.

    Truthfully, I'm honestly not sure how you'd go about revitalising boons and making them more popular without just giving up and reworking them to something completely different, which I hope I don't have to justify as being a really bad outcome. You could maybe give them small buffs here and there to the framework and buff the two actually mediocre boons, but that's rolling the dice on people not just responding with "wow that's all they did huh".

  • thrive2survive
    thrive2survive Member Posts: 323
    edited June 2025

    The real problem that I rarely see people point out is as follows: anything that takes too much time away from BHVRs "precious and poorly thought out list of priorities" isn't going to get any attention period. They'll just sit and coast as they have been until some other game hopefully comes out and forces them out of their comfort zone. Competition breeds innovation and unfortunately for DBD, it has no competition solid enough to threaten anything about it.. :/

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 3,272

    @Firellius mentions a lot of good reasons that all of the boons exist within the same parameters which artificially limits what can be done with them.

    I'll add two others:

    Things that can stack are always going to be problematic for design (and BHVR hasn't done themselves any favors on this front). Do you design the perk so its strong enough on its own, or do you design the perks on the presumption that they are always going to be grouped together? The latter creates for the 'potential' for more interesting build concepts, but also means people need to commit most or all of their build to the idea (which is frequently way too dangerous because then you have no exhaustion or anti-tunnel).

    The second point, for starting survivors, who might benefit a lot more from boon effects like being able to see injured teammates or Illumination, finding totems is much harder than it is for experienced players. This creates even more of an idea that the perks are a wasted slot.

  • Rapid99
    Rapid99 Member Posts: 326
    edited June 2025

    ???

    The only possible way you could be asking for old CoH back is out of ignorance, if you didn't experience how absolutely busted it was. Old CoH needs to stay buried.

  • Rapid99
    Rapid99 Member Posts: 326

    Boons are hard to balance. Pretty much impossible tbh. If you make them strong to incentivize blessing a totem you then have the problem of like CoH where it was just busted and the killer has no counterplay other than having to go hunt down the totem which is a massive time waste for a role that doesn't have time to waste.

    On the other hand you get what they are now… just meh. Tbf they're in the same boat as hex perks. Though I would say hex perks are worse because you can just lose an entire perk within 30 seconds of the game starting and you can't reapply like it you can with blessing a totem. Shattered hope just needs to be basekit, it's laughable they added that thing in as a perk.

  • Rokku_Rorru
    Rokku_Rorru Member Posts: 2,824

    I really just want a radius increase, I like the perks it'd just be nice if they were more useable on bad totem spawns.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 9,617

    I don't know why you would assume every heal starts at a generator, that's a bit odd. That's definitely the scenario where CoH looks weakest - start at an objective, run away from the objective to heal, run back - but that's also pretty obviously not the only situation you'd be in, and I'd tentatively argue it's not even a common one.

    For another example, unhooks. You unhook someone, you and that someone run to the boon and heal, you and that someone run away to separate generators. That's strictly speaking less efficient than healing under the hook, but healing under the hook is a risk and not something to be done every time anyway- it's not uncommon for there to be travel time associated with a post-unhook heal, so if we compare to any other heal with a travel time here, CoH is a massive bonus.

    In addition, any other heal where there'd be travel time is relevant here. Any time you run a few tiles because the killer's a bit too close, or you'd want to be behind cover just in case, CoH is coming out neutral on average for travel time and thus looks very strong overall.

    Hell, if you're in a SWF - and I will acknowledge this point is SWF only, this doesn't apply to solo queue - you can even coordinate meeting halfway in a boon, which is less travel time than one player going all the way to the other.

    As for the blessing time, yes, that's a timesink, that's part of what balances having a zone of We'll Make It. Only one person has to do it, though, and if played smartly they only have to do it once. It's not a matter of whether or not "the heal" pays back that investment because there isn't just one heal and it isn't just for one player. This is part of why the perk's more consistent in SWF, but even a halfway competent team of solos will know to heal in the boon if it's close by, and every heal in the boon pays for the setup time.

    As for your suggestion, if they made it so you couldn't speed up the self-heal that would've been fine too. The problem with CoH was always that you could gain massively fast self heals by bringing one or two extra tools, that's the part that needed to be fixed. Though, just being a zone of Self-Care only for people who brought the perk would've made it tremendously weaker than what we have now.

  • terumisan
    terumisan Member Posts: 2,243

    i personally hate boons as survivor and killer since survivors can place them infinitely and they don't get disabled the killer can't do anything about it

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,969

    I don't know why you would assume every heal starts at a generator, that's a bit odd.

    So, I'm saying the default is that after a heal, you're going to want to do a gen. I'm assuming the killer isn't nearby/interrupting/etc, so the ideal case is to heal and then go be efficient and work on gens.

    That scenario assumes that a survivor is injured and wants a heal, but isn't directly near someone to heal them. That's the scenario that current CoH is designed for because of the aura read part they added.

    So if someone is injured and alone they can go wait in the boon (a waste of time) and then someone else has to leave the gen they're on to go to the boon to heal them.

    I'm comparing that to "just go to the gen and heal there" which eliminates the travel time for one survivor, in fact, that leaves one person on gens while the injured searches for a healer. Barring comms, the ideal play is to ignore the boon, even if it's lit.

    Now, you're right, maybe that starts at a hook, but the math doesn't really change.

    You start at the hook, and maybe, if you're lucky, you are already in the boon radius (although the killer likely heard it and snuffed it if they were that close). So you have to travel.

    And if you spend more than 4 seconds going toward the boon, and it happens to not be exactly in line with the gen you want to do next, you get the same math.

    Just healing under hook, or going directly to the gen, or anywhere in a straight line along the way is more efficient unless the boon is also in that path.

    Part of the benefit of circle was you could take a dead zone of the map with no gens left and make it a heal area. The killer isn't likely to go there, and survivors didn't drag the killer to the boon (at least not circle, exponential is a different story, but was never meta).

    So, generally speaking, the recovery area isn't going to be in the middle of your gen spread to make these numbers work. You have to go out of your way to use the boon, and at that point you've gained nothing from doing that. You're going to be going a lot farther than 4 seconds in a lot of situations.

    The perk is awful for solo queue, and "just meet me at the shack gen and I'll heal you up" is better in basically every scenario. Bond is better, almost all the time, and it's useful in more situations.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,485

    I don't know why you would assume every heal startsat a generator, that's a bit odd. That's definitely the scenario where CoH looks weakest - start at an objective, run awayfrom the objective to heal, run back - but that's also pretty obviously not the only situation you'd be in, and I'd tentatively argue it's not even a common one.

    I think it's relatively common, really. If the killer moves to pressure the unhooker, the unhooked survivor has to find someone else to heal them. And they're most likely to find them at a generator.

    In addition, any other heal where there'd be travel time is relevant here. Any time you run a few tiles because the killer's a bit too close, or you'd want to be behind cover just in case, CoH is coming out neutral on average for travel time and thus looks very strong overall.

    The problem here is that it's not either/or. CoH has all the same problems as a regular heal, it just has one extra.

    I do think that, overall, the travel time is underestimated and I don't think CoH is time efficient at all anymore.

  • fussy
    fussy Member Posts: 2,099

    No, they shouldn't. CoH is amazing perk, doesn't matter how much survivors here will claim it's "bad". All time CoH user here btw.

    image.png

    Exponential should have been nerfed years ago due to how many stupid strategies SWF can create around this perk. But we nerf only killer perks because of 1-2 killers are too good with it, and not survivors perks because they are too good in SWF. It's different, you know.
    Dark Theory and Shadow Step are situational, but in best scenarios they are amazing perks. DT on maps like Gideon/Lary's/RPD is super unfun to go against now and I'm glad everyone stopped use it already. MFT on every survivor and on both health states, hell nah. Same thing with Shadow Step.
    Illumination – yep, the only Boon should be buffed by a mile. Easily can add here exit gates aura, your teammates aura, maybe even some cool thing like 5 seconds of killer's aura for every 30 seconds inside this boon area.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 9,617

    I think it's a mistake to assume that CoH was "designed for" heals like that just because it has an aura. To me, the reason for the aura being there is to smooth along its use in solo queue, more than to dictate how the perk should be used.

    To me, the perk exists to make heals shorter, and to lessen the impact of travel time where it's necessary. That's pretty much it.

    You're not wrong that the thing you'll want to do after the heal is a generator, but the scenario you're describing isn't any more efficient than using a nearby boon. Either you spend a little inefficiency to heal much quicker by undertaking a little travel time, or you spend a little inefficiency by running away from the gen you're next to once you're healed.

    Or group up on the gen, I suppose, but that's also inefficient.

    It's not as though you have to be standing on one spot on the other side of the map. Boons have a pretty healthy range and can be set up reasonably close to the action— there are plenty of spots the killer won't want to go out of their way to snuff a boon, especially since the prevailing opinion on boons is that none of them are worth being worried about. Sure, some of the larger maps can make that a bit questionable, but even the average sized maps are pretty easy to maintain a close by boon on.

    Separately - I just don't want to double post to respond here too lol - what do you mean by "all the problems of a regular heal"? There being travel time on some heals isn't a problem, it's just how it is. You spend a little extra time to make sure you're safe when you heal, it's not an actual detriment to you. You're still getting healed, it's still more than worth doing.

    Strict literal efficiency in generator seconds is very useful to keep in mind but it's not the only thing to keep in mind. You could forgo heals entirely by sticking on generators… but it's worth taking the hit to efficiency to have an extra health state. Making that hit shorter over the course of the match is, too, also very worth it.

  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 4,288

    Oh boy, this is one of my favorites.

    Personally, I have a very clear idea on how boons should work.

    (Quoted directly from my post where I proposed changes to every perk with a ":" in it's name)

    General Boon changes:

    • Reduce the noises that the boons make to make them not as loud.
    • Increase the general radius of the boons to 32 meters
    • Reduce the time needed to bless a dull totem to 7 seconds.
    • Now, totems automatically break after being snuffed.

    Individual Boon changes:

    Boon: Shadow Step
    • Add an effect of muffling footsteps of survivors into it.

    Boon: Illumination
    • Make it so that it also shows the auras of totems, pallets and windows.
    • Replace the cleansing/blessing speed bonus with a 4/5/6 second lingering effect.
    • Make it so this perk ignores the Blindness status effect while inside the boon's radius.

    Boon: Dark Theory (Full Rework)

    Your obsessive study of the paranormal has given you unprecedented knowledge of other realms and planes of existence.

    Press and hold the Ability button near a Dull or Hex Totem to bless it and create a Boon Totem. Soft chimes ring out in a 32 meter range.

    When in the Boon's radius:
    • You can see the auras of all regressing generators in light blue.

    While the Boon is active:
    • Generators regress 10/15/20% slower.
    • When a generator starts regressing, the blessed Totem is blocked from being snuffed for 15 seconds.

    Concept created from ideas from @HolyDarky  and @HeroLives .

  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 4,288

    I mostly agree with you.

    The issue with Boons is that there is no stopping them. Shattered Hope HAS to be basekit, so we can freely adjust them without things spiraling out of control.

    Side note: Dark Theory will never be just right, rn it's kinda eh, but it could end up OP if buffed, so the best course of action is to just rework it. Plus, the concept is so unoriginal it hurts.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 12,666

    I don't think the buffs need to be massive, though.

    Original CoH already had the level of strength to warrant a permanent destruction, and that perk wasn't even overpowered. Just shorter the time required to complete a blessing action and we are golden.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,485

    what do you mean by "all the problems of a regular heal"?

    To clarify, you mention that regular heals have their own bits of 'travel time' here and there, like moving away from the killer, or going into cover. But these aren't eliminated by CoH, so it's not like you can put these travel times up against the CoH travel time and have them cancel each other out. Even if you're in CoH's radius, you will still want to be in cover, and you will still want to move if the killer comes a bit too close.

    Ultimately, I do think that Ampersand has the right of it in that the location restriction of CoH renders a lot of its benefit very situational or even null, and it actually makes it tricky to make good use of it, barring a few hideous spots involving verticality. A CoH in the middle of the action will get snuffed, and a CoH off on the corner of the map provides no benefit.

    Yes, you're getting healed. But that's not a benefit that CoH offers, since the ability to heal others is basekit. You have to ultimately look at the numbers: How much time do you spend on setting up CoH and getting to it, versus how much time do you save on the heal?

    And I think that, on average, other healing perks like Botany and Resurgence save more time than CoH does. It's also why Autodidact used to be terrible. It was really hard to even break even with that perk, let alone get more benefit than you'd get out of its competitors.

  • Deadman7600
    Deadman7600 Member Posts: 430

    I don't mind most of your changes, but I do just wanna bring up the part about the noise. If the general radius is bigger that means more space for the killer to look, which means more time wasted if they aren't at least tossed a bone. It just feels like the noise (if anything) should be louder, that way more of the map is affected but everything is still fairly proportional.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 9,617

    I mean, you very much can stack the two up. If you spend the same amount of travel time in both scenarios, but on the other end of that travel time you get a heal that's twice as fast in the second scenario, the second scenario looks a lot better. That's kind of the whole point.

    Obviously, it's a lot more nuanced than that, but in general that's the idea. You'd play around CoH actively, having to just crouch in the radius and hope someone sees you is the risk for solo queue specifically, it's not the default by any stretch. You would use it in scenarios where you don't have to cross the map to do it, and you get to be vulnerable for less time because the heal is twice as fast.

    Plus, something easy to forget is that YOU don't have to be involved after the setup. If we assume you're survivor A, and the others are lettered how you'd expect, sure- it's easy to see the value when the heals are A+B, A+C, and A+D going in either direction. However, CoH is also very much pulling its weight and paying for itself for any combination of survivors B, C, and D healing each other, especially if they're both injured and need to reset which is the situation CoH shines in most.

    I'm not saying it's far and away better than the two best healing perks, Botany and We'll Make It, but it IS alongside those two. They're the top three right now, with Resurgence sneaking in for fourth place. The difference is not value or efficiency, it's ease of use. If you play in solo queue, absolutely, Botany and We'll Make It - even Resurgence - would probably be a better pick, but that's not because they're stronger, or save more time, or because CoH is some secret detriment despite how it looks on paper, it's because they're much more consistent and reliable in solo queue specifically.

  • HeroLives
    HeroLives Member Posts: 3,233

    Yeah the boons need some love for sure. They’re an interesting mechanic that feels really underwhelming.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,485

     If you spend the same amount of travel time in both scenarios

    Yeah, but that's the point. If you spend the same travel time, sure, CoH is able to recoup the initial investment, but CoH does tend to come with extra travel time which reduces its efficiency.

    I'm not saying it's far and away better than the two best healing perks, Botany and We'll Make It, but it IS alongside those two. They're the top three right now, with Resurgence sneaking in for fourth place. The difference is not value or efficiency, it's ease of use. If you play in solo queue, absolutely, Botany and We'll Make It - even Resurgence - would probably be a better pick, but that's not because they're stronger, or save more time, or because CoH is some secret detriment despite how it looks on paper, it's because they're much more consistent and reliable in solo queuespecifically.

    Yeah, I think with me being more of a solo queue player, that might be why I do not care much for it.

  • UnicornMedal
    UnicornMedal Member Posts: 1,569

    A big issue too is cause and effect I think. We're always much more concerned with "if you do this, I have to defend myself". CoH was in the same category (I think) as perks like WGLF, BBQ, Devour Hope, or even Inner Strength. Not in the sense that the perk itself was the same, but in the sense that the objective changed the course of the trial and helped eliminate some of the complaints in an organic way. It could've been nerfed to just be group Self-Care and it'd still be beneficial toward that goal. But like you said, small thinking leads to removing things entirely versus maintaining variety and that only enforces stale metas that nobody enjoys.

    This too. I don't know why we get lukewarm perks that are gassed up to be something really special and powerful when they clearly are not. Weaving Spiders has been a joke from day one. There are SOME clutch plays with it and at least it's more useful than Potential Energy, but it's poorly designed. Treacherous Crows is even worse. Invocations to me are sort of a repentance for Boons, which I find bizarre. Especially in a meta where Survivors could stand to be stronger without much of an impact.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 12,666

    I agree, my friend.

    And I think, for survivors specifically, the problem is particularly prominent because of how hostile the community is towards the survivor meta. The last two new perks to truly enter the survivor meta were CoH and MFT, both of which got nerfed into obscurity.

    Outside of those two, survivor meta basically follows the same structure it always had: exhaustion perks, UB, DS, and often a healing perk of sorts (Self-Care used to be the chosen one in the past). But thats it. Every time survivors gain a new addition to the meta, which is already extremely rare, it often doesn't last very long.

  • UnicornMedal
    UnicornMedal Member Posts: 1,569

    It is incredibly comical how MFT went down, still. I'm not saying it was healthy how it paired with Hope, but the fact that it only lasted during EGC (assuming it got to that point) when Survivor resources were likely to be nil and it was considered game breaking really says everything.

    And I agree. I'd argue that Nic Cage's perks were an important shift for the game, but without more of an effort to push the game in fun and unique directions, it's all some weaker variant of a perk that already exists. I love Strength In Shadows and prior to that I loved Dramaturgy, but beyond that? I think the most recent perks I bring are from Felix.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 12,666

    Haha, still ahead of me, my friend. I usually play with Adrenaline, Iron Will, DS and Botany Knowledge.

    All four are from 2016.

  • UnicornMedal
    UnicornMedal Member Posts: 1,569

    6.1.0 forced me to run Desperate Measures in order to unhook people and it's stuck ever since. Works well with Shadows too, which I only started running because the priority stack with Self-Care makes me a sitting duck lmao. Still sad to think that my kit hasn't changed all that much in the last 3 years when I used to run unique builds on each of my characters to make them feel diverse.

  • UnicornMedal
    UnicornMedal Member Posts: 1,569

    100%. Even then, No Mither offers more for being broken, Alert/Wire Tap/OoO are easier than Treacherous Crows and offer a similar advantage, and in the amount of time it takes to do Weaving Spiders, you could've easily popped one gen with Deja Vu and a toolbox (assuming you're as free as you were in the basement). The risk/reward is so off balance.

  • thrawn3054
    thrawn3054 Member Posts: 6,357

    A radius increase would be a nice little buff to them. One possible idea would be to remove a killers ability to snuff them out unless they bring Shattered Hope.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 5,485

    That would be far too powerful, really. And I don't want killers to have to bring a perk on the off chance that survivors bring a boon. It's bad enough survivors have to do that with anti-tunnel stuff.

  • thrawn3054
    thrawn3054 Member Posts: 6,357

    I don't think it would be far too strong though. Most of the Boon effects are pretty weak or are too situational to warrant the time setting one up takes. Especially if you have to light the Boon repeatedly.