http://dbd.game/killswitch
This forced to play is for the birds.
The devs forcing survivors to stay on the hook all match is awful. Being held hostage is crap unplayable matches is mind blowing to me.
I had a match where nobody was doing gens except me, and we were going against a gen regression stealth pig. Obviously piggy had a particular playstyle she was doing.
Never committed to chase hardly and defended gens and hid alot. I got 2 gens done myself while others messed around and the match dragged for like 10 minutes.
I got hooked finally bc piggy committed to me and we had a good chase, and once igot hooked and saw the other 3 were in lockers I wanted to go.
I sat there.... THE ENTIRE TIME.... bc god forbid i struggle and go next. None of them saved me. I was being held hostage on the hook by the devs. I know they didn't intend this.... but its not working.
Miserable. We should have the right to opt out of bogus matches. At least with a DC we have bots. But sometimes dying on hook is the better choice when you play with boneheads. You all know these matches.
Comments
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It should be evident by now that it is not intended to play survivor solo. In fact, I would say 4 man SWF is the only way. They neglect, continue nerfing, and enforcing punishments, rules, and adding more and more unfun play styles to pigeon hole you to basically avoid survivor at all costs unless you play with friends and even then they are likely to leave you to play by yourself.
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I disagree. They're trying very hard to balance the game around Solo Queue while letting SWFs get more and more broken.
-19 -
If you have such an issue with the way this match went, then run a Luck offering, Slippery Meat, or play in a SWF. Whinging about it accomplishes nothing.
-35 -
Anti go next and anti hide are not affecting the 4swf high mmr players. I can assure you as someone that would play like that before nobody was being inefficient and everyone knew their job at all times with a constant feedback loop.
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You had to wait a truly unbearable 140 seconds because of a specific circumstance that doesn't normally occur so that most matches can go much more smoothly without people giving up on hook instantly.
This community man.-10 -
So.... I should be FORCED to wait the entire time in crap matches? I should be FORCED to wait an entire bleed out timer if everyone isn't down?
I should be told I have to play if I don't want to for whatever reason thats my businessand none of anyone else's dispite me paying to play like everyone else when for years.... we had that option and suddenly its taken from us... and I have no right to be upset about that change after having it since launch?
Here's the thing... when I play a game at the end of the day my own fun matters most. Not a stranger. If you can be gross and play how you want.. (slugging) (camping) (tunneling) th3n why can't I leave when I want? Is that not okay too?
We draw the line there? Despite all the problems everyone has... thats where we say no?
Sorry person who paid for the game. You WILL STAY IN THIS MATCH or else get a penalty even if its on your stomach… or on a hook.... the entire time...
-10 -
I have to say, I personally don't get the idea of forcing people to play matches they don't want to. Even with the new attempt at preventing go next, it still isn't really working as I can very much tell when team mates don't want to be in a match and they just creatively throw the match to get out, rather than just DC and go next.
For me the biggest reason my heart isn't in a match is the killer, I just do not want to verse a Trickster or a Knight etc. Now I can try to play for the team but my heart isn't in it, as I don't want to play these matches and making it so I am stuck in that match doesn't miraculously create motivation for me.
I wish there was a system where you got more points and shorter queues if you played against a roster of killers, as I would take less points and far longer queues to NOT have to verse certain killers, as I think the match will be better for all involved if I am not in it.
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That sounds good at first, but we shouldnt forget that its not like every survivor dislikes other killer.
So if many survivor dont wanna play against knight for example, every knight player will have to wait too.
I would understand if its an old Skull merchant case, but some killer have just an subjective "unfun"-marker. Some others have complicated counterplay anf if everyone dodges, they will not learn.
Like i would gladly ban every teammate with selfcare, but that is not good for the game.
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What is your escape rate?
-6 -
If you’re complaining about not being able to go next, then honestly it’s players like you that are the reason the go next prevention system is needed. It’s forcing you to decide if you actually want to be serious about trying instead of just ruining the match for your teammates any time you aren’t having fun. I’m sure this will make some chronic “go nexters” not want to play the game anymore, and that is a very good thing for the health of the game.
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Yeah nah I get that, which is where an incentive may work? I don't know, I cant claim to have any answers but I do know that making people play matches they don't want to doesn't work and trying to make them is just wasting everyone's time.
Honestly I would rather a team where we all die but we all have our hearts in the fight, over a team that is only in it to avoid a DC penalty so we're all just wasting each others time.
I just cant see how forcing people to play matches they clearly want out of will ever work
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You paid for a MULTIPLAYER game, you aren't the only person playing. Overall the feature is far more beneficial than harmful and has already become evident with NightLight.gg statistics showing a drop of 10-15% in killrates. People were killing themself on hook that often. So pull your big girl panties up and wait a horrifying 2 minutes and 20 seconds at most as a one off occurrence so everyone can benefit from this overall positive change.
PS, if you press ALT + TAB you can even watch a YouTube video in the background.8 -
Well its not a matter of "just not having fun" thought. Thats the problem. It's not black and white. My example match i described is just one of many bizarre matches where there is no real game happening.
It's Bust games I'm talking about. The go next prevention aims at the players who just rage quit bc they got beat in a chase. Those with poor impulse control. They ruin matches.
Then there's everything else. Matches where killers just slug all match, don't down bc of whatever reason. Survivors that just don't touch gens paired with killers that are slugging or farming.. etc.. etc..
You know what I mean. Any veteran player knows what I mean. Sometimes you just go okay.. you guys have fun I'm going next so I can actually play.
Thats what I mean when I say it isn't working. It's hurting those that are serious about the game more than its helping. Multiple times last night I had to wait out the entire hook stages just to leave.
I wasn't being saved, or I wasn't being picked up off the ground for a long time then put on a hook and had to wait to die on the hook while my team hid in lockers or ran circles around the basement hook being silly.
I understand what anti go next was trying to do. But after what I went through last night I realized this hurts more than rage quitters.
-5 -
Well, it really depends. If it was a cracked Blight, we would basically never see the gates opened. On average, 1 or 2 out of 10. The gates being opened is really dependent on how terrible the killer is.
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What nerfs? As far as I can tell Behaviour is trying to improve the SoloQ experience, the hud changes, adding anti-camp mechanic, survivor meta being in a really good state rn etc. The only thing to correct is map balancing and matchmaking imo.
And no, playing in a 4man is not the only right way you can play dbd as a survivor, stop the cap.
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What they need to do is remove the DC penalty or severely lower the penalty, so people don't get trapped in games that are already over before they began. Instead of dying, at least that team would be left with a bot.
DBD is a casual game. If they added a "ranked competitive" mode, that would be a different story, and DC penalties should be harsher there, but we don't have that mode.
Honestly if they added a comp queue to this game (they never would most likely because they'd get way more perk and killer balance complaints) that would solve a lot of the problems people have with the "sweat" we deal with in a lot matches where some people play for money and others play to chill and have fun.
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Why cant people that just like to win just hop on on the casual mode and wreck them? Cuz to me that would not stop nothing, just make queues horrible
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They could and would. Point is it would be less often. Those types of people and their egos need to see their little number go up. If there was a comp mode, they would not resist playing it more often.
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Definitely doesn't feel great to be forced into playing out a lost match to the bitter end. One guy dead at 5 gens? I feel like it isn't totally unreasonable to want to go next.
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We should have a vote to surrender feature for sure
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I wouldn't say that the devs don't intend it to go down like that. I would say that they view it as a necessary casualty. It's not.
As many of us are learning and will continue to learn, being forced to stay in a trial doesn't dramatically shift the tides. It just wastes more time.
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Sounds like something a quitter would say honestly.
Never challenging yourself with adversity because you can tab out or go next, it doesn’t make anyone a better player. Staying in is always practice to learn more or figure out what went wrong and how to do it better next time. Difference in perspectives. Naturally you can only be held accountable for your own performance, but I think there’s usually almost always something someone can learn.
-3 -
Sorry but this excuse and reasoning doesn't work when you get teammates sometimes that actively sandbag out of malice or even involuntarily sandbag you due to their ignorance and naivety. We shouldn't be forced into being puppets for a killer player that already won the game 8 minutes before the final hook.
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It’s actually the difference between a growth and fixed mindset. If I’m tired of getting sandbagged I put on bond, because you can see them coming from about 40m away, move out of the way, hide, let them pass, and get back on my gen. If you’re in the area of danger and they can hit you they will, bond you can almost completely negate sandbagging. It’s a free perk too that comes on Dwight which you get with the base game.
Other ways you can use bond , to get in line for a body block if you need to so the president doesn’t go down because if they die you’re doomed.
You can also use bond to not sandbag your teammates when you’re in a chase. Sometimes it’s better to go down than run the killer right into the area where someone on death hook is healing, or to a pivotal gen your teammates need to get done.
Those are just 3 ways you can use this totally free perk to help yourself and your teammates. Doesn’t matter if you’re brand new or just okay at the game. It’s a really useful perk. Bond haters out there, I see you. Respectfully, you’re wrong.
Post edited by HeroLives on-9 -
I dont mind anti- Go Next features, but i feel like the matchmaking improvement update should have come before it. And if there's only 2 survivors left then make it easier to let go (ie take it back to two missed skill checks)
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I don't know why you're speaking to people here like we're all idiots or noobs. We know. Some games are physically unwinnable and that is just a fact. No amount of "go getter mindset" is going to change that fact. A surrender option at the very least should be in the game. Simple as.
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You're not wrong. But you have to ask yourself how much the game is asking (in this case, demanding) of the average player versus how much it's rewarding.
It would've been very different if they'd changed more of the game first versus slapping it on as is. I think at its core, it's really only correcting petty go nexts (the reasons you hear repeated here as to why it should've been implemented) but it's not changing why the trials are bad at all.
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If that’s how you feel about receiving advice about a tip to handle sandbagging that is on you. You’re not the only person that gets sandbagged. Take it or don’t take it. You’re the one saying sandbagging is an issue for you. I’m either very blunt or goofy, take me as you will. My mmr is 5, I step in trappers traps. I just know this works for me, and even if I’m talking to you, I don’t know what other new player may be lurking and needs advice because they’re looking to find a way to manage sandbagging. I honestly don’t care if you’re a veteran or just downloaded the game yesterday, it literally makes no difference to me. You can be a loop god or last 5 seconds in a chase, I cannot express this enough I don’t care about that; I myself am so mid in chase, sometimes you would think I downloaded the game yesterday. That’s just DBD.
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I totally understand, that by no means is lost on me. This is not an easy game for the average person, especially if you’re playing survivor. I provide feedback on what I think can make a difference. If your issue is reward feel free to just vent off me on what you feel like would make the game more rewarding for you considering how demanding it is and what you feel like can alleviate that.
-2 -
No your advice just serves yourself to make you feel good. Most players here are advanced enough to recognize the answers you're providing. It changes nothing about the overall argument.
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okay, what would make YOU stop wanting to go next or dc? What do YOU THINK THE GAME CAN GIVE YOU to keep you engaged and stop ruining the game for four other players in a MULTIPLAYER GAME BECAUSE YOU DECIDED FOR EVERYONE THE GAME WAS A WASH?
Regardless of whether it was or was not a wash, why should anyone have the power to decide for everyone else who agreed to play that they now have to adjust just because even 1 person doesn’t like the way the game is going?
Better?2 -
This. People going next used to be the worst thing about playing solo survivor, because any match could suddenly be ruined just because someone decided to give up the moment something didn't go right for them… and this "something" could be the match STARTING with a killer they didn't like or even a mistake made by themselves! Multiple times, while playing both killer and solo survivor, I've seen survivors lose matches they had a really good chance of winning simply because someone gave up on their first hook after others had been hooked before but kept playing and did multiple gens, yet that one person couldn't accept a misplay of their own, gave up and caused the survivors to lose.
Now solo survivor is not perfect… but undoubtly better than before, because at least people keep playing when a match is rough. When they really don't, they DC, but they still leave a bot behind, which is not ideal, but far better than playing 3v1. They also take a penalty so they can't abuse doing this either.
Also, this whole "being FORCED to play matches" is just dramatic victimization discourse and nothing else. No one is FORCING anyone to play anything, the "leave match" button is always there. "But there is a penalty!", sure, but the penalty only getts actually long after the THIRD DC. If someone often wants to DC more than that every twenty matches, perhaps they shouldn't be playing, or at best they should be playing less often, which the penalty will make sure of.
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Don't like it don't play the game this is the result of people abusing go next for ages survivors have reaped what they have sown
-5 -
At this point, my stance is that there's a lot the game could feasibly do to massively improve the experience. But realistically, not much it can do given all of the variables—the genre, the playerbase, the developer, etc. I wouldn't say it's doomed, but I do think it's old and it's tired.
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A vote surrender system
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Sounds like a single player game might be the answer for you.
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Let’s throw whether or not it’s realistic out the door. I would like to hear what you think the things are that are demanding and go back to what you think feasible can make the experience better?
-1 -
To be fair, there's a lot DBD could do to feel more like a PVP game. Often times solo q feels like you're an NPC in a PVE game.
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Fairness is a must. I say it often, but I think a proper working scaling difficulty system would benefit the game a lot. The one 2v8 uses is a start, but it's not great. I think basekit comebacks that work at appropriate times would make the overall experience feel less hopeless for either side. Genrushing would be cut down and camping/tunneling/slugging would be limited, but neither would disappear at all and would retain their strength when required.
More interactive objectives are another must. Hooks and gens are cooked. If our objectives more closely mirrored mini quests, that would give the game a lot more of a dynamic flow. If both sides had more diverse ways of interacting with each other, that would also be great. Setting more traps, more ways of incapacitating (with real counterplay and objectives during that time), etc.
Another absolute must is alternative ways of advancing the trial. I can concede that OG hatch might've been too much. But the nerf was equally too much. Not only does hatch need to be stronger, we need other ways of escaping/killing than just relying on what we have now. 3 gen? No problem, because we can work on hacking the gates (harder to do and takes longer). Hooks keep breaking, throw someone in a cage (riskier but keeps them out of the trial). Little things like that.
Beyond that, we need better scoring events, better ways of communicating with each other, better matchmaking, all the stuff under the hood that's been neglected.
I think Friday The 13th, Evil Dead, TCM, and Killer Klowns have all demonstrated ways of bringing these ideas forward. The problem is, none of them survive for very long.
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what does that look like to you? Vote number is an easy answer because 5 players. Survivors vote will always outweigh the killers vote though, and I think their experience also matters, they can get out voted most of the time just due to probability odds. Can killers also initiate the surrender option at anytime? Again they still get out voted by probability odds. I think that’s an extremely biased system, when I sit and I think about it.
Does that matter to you?
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I really don't care about the conjured killer vs survivor drama. The real tea is when you have killers and survivor teammates trolling you and you just want out without penalty for it. People that don't put their hands on a generator for like 4+ minutes. Or if there are cheaters.
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Thanks so much for taking the time to type that out.
What do you think the scoring event should look like? I think I already know, but I don’t want to assume. Someone else’s idea of scoring may look different than yours and I’ve read scoring events before on here. If that was you my apologies and you won’t have to reiterate yourself, I just don’t remember who said it.
-2 -
Scoring needs to feel like it matters. For the game's lifespan, it's felt like it wants you to play a specific way that's unrealistic to the natural game flow. Killer has an easier time with it since their range of objectives hasn't changed too, too much, but Survivor is handicapped there. The recent changes have helped, but the game really should do more to reward you as a team if it wants you to play as one. Something I loved about Killer Klowns is that it rewarded you for helping others escape. There was no shame in watching a boat get filled and you waving goodbye because their escape counted toward your team goal and would reward you as such even if you personally didn't make it out. I like that. It makes the experience feel more tight knit and like you're working together and less of a free-for-all.
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My knee jerk, been playing solo queue for a few days and am feeling snippy due to the near constant losses, steamrolls, and killer post game sore winner BMing thoughts:
Survivor suffering is the point. Survivors aren’t meant to enjoy a match, much less win. Sure, it happens occasionally but really the role of a survivor is to squirm on the end of a killer’s weapon. This is so players playing killers can enjoy the game - it’s not fun for them if you don’t have to sit and deal with being steamrolled. Your frustration IS what makes the game enjoyable for them.
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Once had a round similar to yours only i was the killer and i hooked the first person i chased, the other 3 were in lockers waiting for them to die, so it dawned on me they were not going to help them. I went over to their hook, stood there till they pulled themself off with anticamp, and then proceded to team up with them to go find and hunt down the other 3, starting with the lockers she knew they were in. After killing them all together, she let me hook her too as they didn't want the hatch lol
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I almost entirely play solo queue. Don't really have any issues. However, you do have to do your due diligence and get out there and help bodyblock, knock out gens, take chases with good looping, and even trade hook states if needed. Being solo-queue and just sneaking and doing gens isn't going to cut it.
-1 -
Anti go next and anti hide are positively affecting soloqueue since they are encouraging people to stay around.
-1 -
Right now I feel like the game is demanding that we cater to the most toxic of because that’s all that we get. So when you have people that are going out of their way to make sure that the experience is miserable for everyone else, being forced to sit through that for zero reward is not worth it. I’d personally rather take the damn DC penalty than ever give those type of people . And that’s what it comes down to the people who wanted to prevent anyone from leaving the game are the ones that get off on making things miserable for other people. If it was about winning, they can do that with bots. But not about winning for them. It’s about making sure that they get to make other people miserable. Dead by daylight now penalizes you for not wanting to sit through trolls.
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I'm not going to lie, had this conversation with a friend just the other day and it just boiled down to "Why do survivors get to decide if the game is fun or not, what about the killer?" when in reality the majority of the time if all 4 survivors aren't having fun, then the killer is most likely absolutely trouncing them. Stuff like 2 dead at 3 gens remaining and being forced to rat to hope you're not the one caught so you can attempt for hatch.
I think if a surrender option was added it would have to start at a certain timeframe/point in the game, dead players don't get to vote and the killer receives kill credit if survivors decide to give up. Is it selfish to say that if you as a killer is making the game miserable for any number of reasons that the survivors deserve to give up to both save time, mental, and enjoyment? It directly mimics that of other competitive games (while I disagree dbd should be competitive in the slightest when it doesn't have the playerbase to support a high MMR/ELO scene). Killer players in general are given much more tools to "have fun" in an average game, when survivors are normally using their space for fun additions to the match in defensives so they don't feel cheated out. Obviously this is a game problem, but systems like a surrender option are fairly easy to implement and can save a lot of mental fatigue, especially with the large number of survivor players being as jaded with the systems that exist currently.3 -
I feel like BHVR got the order of implementing Phase 1 and Phase 2 the wrong way around. We should have had improvements to the Survivor experience first before considering a harsher penalty system if that had done nothing to solve the go next phenomenon. I have way more bad Survivor games than enjoyable ones.
If Survivors are to play out Trials to the bitter end, there needs to be a lot of work done to make it feel like a more rewarding experience. If anything, they've so far achieved the opposite, since a 4K is all but assured now that you can't miss skill checks to give the other remaining Survivor a fair shot at hatch (and that's only if the Killer lets hatch spawn in the first place).
I'll see what Phase 2 has to offer us, because so far we've seen only harsher punishments for not playing out those frustrating games. But until that day, I guess I'll be a Killer main.
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