Interested in volunteering to help moderate for the Forums? Please fill out an application here: https://dbd.game/moderator-application
Kill Switch update: We have temporarily Kill Switched the Forgotten Ruins Map due to an issue that causes players to become stuck in place. The Map will remain out of rotation until this is resolved.

http://dbd.game/killswitch

The Streamers add-on was already mid, why was it nerfed?!

2»

Comments

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,960

    Because you're confusing two very different things:

    Just because an add-on or power kills survivors doesn't automatically mean it does better than not using it, or using something else.

    Tombstone might be frustrating to die to, but it takes a long time to earn, is generally telegraphed (not committing to chase, tiering up takes longer, etc), and people are usually going to play around tombstone even if you aren't running it.

    So you are just as likely to have gens done by the time you get that far. If nothing else, ask anyone who's tried to 4k for the achievement if that's easy to earn.

    Just because a killers power outright kills survivors doesn't mean that's the best method for killing survivors. Both pig and Onryo have that ability built into their power without an add-on at all, but I don't think anyone is calling them S-tier because of it.

  • Langweilig
    Langweilig Member Posts: 3,137

    Do you think the devs are going to touch addons more frequently now? They‘ve never changed that many addons from one character in such a short time.

  • Brokenbones
    Brokenbones Member Posts: 5,629

    There is no confusion.

    You're mostly talking about Judith's Tombstone in your post. I am talking about Tombstone Piece. Also yeah, funny you mention survivors having to play around it - you know how they do that? By giving Myers a hook for free.

    Any myers who is mega tryharding will use it 100%, there is no reason not to. Being able to bypass all hook states and make the game a 3v1 as early as possible makes the addon completely busted even with the small nerf it got.

    Judith's tombstone, while not great to be hit by - has actual downsides that the Killer has to work around. Tombstone piece does not.

  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 2,758

    oh boy, pallet zoning again! that was so fun for Kaneki. forgive me if I'm not excited to go back..

  • mecca
    mecca Member Posts: 554

    Well, if you read what I said it would make perfect sense. Double standards to balancing and business profiting. There is no world in the universe that would make sense for an addon to be that broken (pay 2 win).

  • I_Cant_Loop
    I_Cant_Loop Member Posts: 2,276
    edited July 3

    I agree 100% that the tombstone add-on is busted and miserable to go against. But that has nothing to do with the accuracy of the kill rate stats.

  • mecca
    mecca Member Posts: 554

    It's the same psychology. The kill stats are so polished and then pretend killers killing 60+ is balanced in a PvP game with MMR. This is a multiplayer game, not single player where only one side is supposed to win by default and have fun.

    There's a reason why survivor role sucks and people don't play it.

  • I_Cant_Loop
    I_Cant_Loop Member Posts: 2,276
    edited July 3

    What kill/escape rate would be acceptable to you? I’m perfectly fine escaping 40% of the time as survivor. Escaping isn’t supposed to be easy.

  • mecca
    mecca Member Posts: 554

    It should be balanced so better survivors escape more. When you have killers that win literally thousands in a row then there is a very serious balance problem.

    We already know new survivor is the hardest and killer can easily 4 K.

    I have played enough also to know 40% is inaccurate. Whatever the percentage is very wrong for a video game. There is not another video game with such horrible balance.

  • I_Cant_Loop
    I_Cant_Loop Member Posts: 2,276
    edited July 3

    I have no issue with your opinion that survivors should escape more often. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on that. But let’s at least have an honest debate here.

    A couple of your points are totally misleading and false. The first one is that killers can win thousands of games in a row. There are like two people, the best players in the world, who have ever done that. That says nothing about overall game balance. No “normal” players do that, ever. Average kill rate is 60%, which means the “typical” game is between 2 and 3 kills, with 2 kills being the most common outcome. You cannot balance a game around the very best or very worst players. That’s not how it works.

    The 2nd untrue point is that the 40% escape rate isn’t accurate. You’re basically just calling the devs liars and refusing to accept reality. The stats have been consistent for years now. Believe what you want, but your beliefs don’t change reality.

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 2,960

    Both add-ons have the same counter. If you're playing Myers and he's not hooking them you jump in a locker, or work on a gen constantly.

    At best, either add-on should only get, at most, one kill, and then it's confirmed 100%, to brand new players that it's in play. And both add-ons slow down EW progress.

    Again, this only matters if the instant kill is both popular and giving the killer more kills than not running it. It's obviously popular because of the effect, but it's clearly not getting more kills overall than running a regular build. That's the logic here.

    That's why I brought up pig and Onryo, because insta kill isn't necessarily going to be giga powerful just by itself. And you ignored that because you misunderstood that my argument applies to both add-ons here.

  • Choaron
    Choaron Member Posts: 818
    edited July 3

    Why nerf Nurse when you can nerf Springtrap.

  • Brokenbones
    Brokenbones Member Posts: 5,629
    edited July 4

    One early kill is all it takes for Killer's to secure a solid victory and that's what tombstone piece basically does. Unless I see data from BHVR specifically about this, I refuse to believe Myer's killrate with this addon is lower than those without. In """high""" mmr at least.

    Comparing Tombstone to Pig and Onryo is very disingenous too because it might imply their insta-kills are just as low effort as Tombstone, which they aren't.

    Onryo has to spend the whole game building up stacks, securing hooks to lock them in and then actually downing the survivor again for the mori

    And Pig's RBTs are self explanatory; she needs a down, it takes a long time and so on.

    (Not to mention the massive difference - they both have counterplay for the survivors). Actual counterplay based on how their powers are designed. Not "oh guess i'm just gonna jump in a locker because if i don't i might end up dying instantly"

    Then you have Myers. Stalk survivors with a stalk rate addon, walk close enough to one then press m1. If there's no lockers nearby or you get caught off guard for whatever reason - congratulations you just got taken out of the game by a single purple addon.

    At least with Judith's tombstone, his movement speed is decreased (meaning haste perks are needed, removing gen slowdown perks) and the amount of stalk required is insane.

  • Adriana_ghoul
    Adriana_ghoul Member Posts: 23

    Why consider killrates when add ons have near infinite factors as to why they are chosen?

    Streamers wasn't used because it was good, it was used because it felt nice. More experienced players tend to move towards "feel good" add ons which can explain its higher killrate. Its why good players constantly use add ons such as Beetle + gloves on wesker, Coffee + Satchel on Kaneki, etc instead of the objectively stronger choices like Uni medallion, or Centipede + mask.

    Doesnt this also open up add on killrates to be rigged? If an add on noone uses suddenly gets used by a lot of experienced players the killrate will spike due to there being no weaker players to balance it out.

    On top of this, what is that 5% taken off really gonna do? If the add on is deemed problematic is a 0.1s nerf gonna change the killrates as much as you want it to? Because most players agree that the base kit door traversal time (3s) is too slow, so this add on will still be ran.

    I'm absolutely begging the team uses a different approach to adjusting add ons. Its clear these + the artist PTB add ons were adjusted purely because of killrates and the changes are so bad for the characters health.

  • xGodSendDeath
    xGodSendDeath Member Posts: 716

    I wonder what the data analysis process was while MFT went untouched for 7 months. Everything that's not Nurse or Blight on killer side gets turbo nerfed though. And even those killers are allowed to stay intact only cause BHVR refuses to nerf sweaty SWF