http://dbd.game/killswitch
"Tunneling is the only way to consistently win"
Comments
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It gets used in lots of different ways
Anything but 12 hooking is tunneling
Going after the survivor right off the hook
Going after the survivor right off the hook, unless that survivor body blocks
Hyper focusing on the first survivor found until they are 3 hooked and eliminated, ignoring all others
Trying to find the weakest survivor and then focusing on them until they are eliminated
It even gets used for targeting players for specific reasons - anything from a player who was a really good looper and now the killer wants to eliminate them more than win the game, to targeting specific characters and/or charms due to personal dislike.
All of them focus around the general idea of the killer targeting a specific survivor, though how extreme the standard is, and whether there are any other circumstances that might change it, are also important to consider when discussing such a broad topic.
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Soooo… tunneling is a meaningless word that can mean whatever the survivor in question wants it to mean.
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No. It's also not unique to survivors, its an issue that effects both sides and, more broadly, games in general. In DbD some killers act like survivors want to penalize anything but 12 hooking, even when they are being told that isn't true.
A comparison to this that a lot of early multiplayer FPS games had to go through was 'spawn camping' (I suspect some version of this complaint still exists). Just for clarity, this would be in a game with respawns after death where an enemy player/team would kill people as they spawned in without a chance to defend themselves. It was generally seen as 'unfun' and 'simplistic' as the one side had no chance and little skill was being exhibited, while others worried that nerfing/eliminating spawn camping would limit 'strategic opportunities' (pretty much like the tunneling discussions).
Now even though we have a general definition, people still frequently meant different things. Did it only count if you killed the person as they spawned in? What about the door to the spawn area? Or the hallway outside? At what point was it no longer spawn camping, but just regular gameplay?
There's no official source where we can look up terms like tunneling or spawn camping to draw the line. That's why people need to be specific about what they mean when discussing game changes. Which isn't really that hard and the majority of threads on things like tunneling over the past few years are people talking past each other because they mean different things.
I have no knowledge of what BHVR will do, but I highly doubt by anti-tunnel they mean 12 hooking and we're much more likely looking at either more basekit protections off the hook or something that makes it more difficult for the killer to eliminate a survivor on three straight hooks, or some benefit to the survivors if the killer does so (I doubt the last one though it gets suggested a lot).Maybe they'll do something more extreme than that. Sometimes they make decisions that I think are really bad, but given how they've operated in the past, I find the idea that its going to be a radical overhaul incredibly unlikely.
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Pretty much, same as any killer with Gen rush. There's a lot of words where everyone has different definitions, hence why people should ask what others define something.
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>In DbD some killers act like survivors want to penalize anything but 12 hooking, even when they are being told that isn't true.
wow yea im totally going to believe that because the survivors are TELLING me it isn't true. yeah im 100% going to just believe what they say when every single way to play other than bending over backwards and trying to keep as many people alive for as long as possible before actually killing them has been nerfed. camping and tunneling has been nerfed to hell and you cannot deny that. now its time for slugging. maybe if they actually implemented drastic measures to allow the "nice playstyle" to actually be effective, this would not be a problem. but people would rather gaslight the ever loving ######### out of anyone who says this by saying that bending over backwards for the survivors is actually a GOOD strategy, ur just not skilled enough. reeks of the aura of people who go "just pressure generators"-3 -
Yes but I have seen crazy blights or strong killers have fast chases and still lose to the gen preasure from survivors. The killers I speak about dint run any slowdownnor gen regresdion perk mostly just info perks and survivors still beat them by doing gend asap so fast chases without meta wont do much against teams that know hiw to do fast and effectively their objective.
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You forgot:
Hooking a survivor, downing another survivor, then finding the recently unhooked first survivor hiding somewhere by accident and then downing and hooking him……
according to endgame chat that's tunneling
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wow yea im totally going to believe that because the survivors are TELLING me it isn't true.
So that's my (this poor alone Rulebreaker) official stats tracked since... whenever they started. As you see it's relatively equal (achievements left are survivor ones and springtrap jump scares). Would you call me a survivor? Killer? A guy who plays both ends? What I can tell you from personal experience is that at the very least OUR definition of tunneling that we gave is not necessary to win. You don't need to tunnel from the get go to win. You don't need to go out of your way to target one survivor till they die. You can "play nice" (depending on what you call that) and still come out on top (or atleast not be a ***).
Could also deny that "camping and tunneling has been nerfed to hell" but that's also because our definition of "to hell" is very likely different than yours.
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Some players are strange, I got accused once in endgame chat that I was tunneling and only reason this happened was because I was playing xeno. No some survivors are definition of headless chicken bodyblocking killer from hitting survivor who saved them on five gens with first hook in the game and the they have pikachu face when killer goes after them like they are oneshot with no dead hard or otr saving them only ds and that on five gens is not that good. Sometimes you cant find anyone and then the one survivor who was hooked last shows up, following survivor rule book I shoud ignore him but thats not possible my time in the trial is running out and I need some preasure to keep survivors in the match so I chase him down and then Im dirty tunneler or getting silid team that has dobe 3 gens on 2 hooks and then they are angry I tunnel with b/c -tier killer almost on one gen like what should I do at this part of game there isnt more to do than try to get one out of the game.
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https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957577#Comment_3957577
I’d call that down rushing if I were to frame it like some killer oriented posters frame survivors trying to get gens done before being killed.
Edit: /s for clarity
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wow yea im totally going to believe that because the survivors are TELLING me it isn't trueIf you already know what other people actually mean despite what they are saying, I'm not sure what you are hoping to accomplish on a discussion forum.
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you usually do not need to tunnel from the get go,. I don't do that. but people want tunneling to be completely obliterated when its already been nerfed heavily and is actually hard to do if you're playing a killer who needs to do it
if you are playing a killer b tier and below there is a high chance you will need to employ some light tunneling at least to win against a team who is even decently efficient and decent in chase
like if I'm playing a mouse 1 killer I literally do not have the chase capacity to go and play nice because that relies on downing people quickly; most killers in fact do not have oppressive enough chase powers to make this happen which is why S tier killers exist and ignore all anti-tunnel and anti-camp. not because they can shred through anti-tunnel to begin with, but because they do not need to tunnel and camp; their powers allow them to down people quickly and brute-force chases. they CAN play nice due to that.
so whenever someone says that killers shouldn't complain about tunneling being nerfed and should instead learn to play "normal" the only thing I can wonder is how exactly they want us to play. do you want us to go to one survivor, another survivor, another survivor, another survivor, and repeat the cycle? do you seriously expect people to be able to do that against any team with an IQ of 20 while playing ghostface or dredge?1 -
So if recently unhooked survivor does body block killer from going for the un-hooker, must killer still pursue un-hooker and lose time or killer may instead focus on the unhooked survivor instead? Will this still count as tunneling?
I just wonder why it's ok for survivors to play efficiently and do gens, ignoring everything else while it's rather bad for a killer to do the same and get rid of any survivor as soon as possible in the game that rewards survivors who focus on getting gens fast and does punish killer who tries to spread the hooks instead?
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You realize we immediately come into the problem of "what defines light tunneling" since you refused to state anything, but starting from the top.
actually hard to do if you're playing a killer who needs to do it
if you are playing a killer b tier and below there is a high chance you will need to employ some light tunneling at least to win against a team who is even decently efficient and decent in chase
Yes its hard, but not a single killer absolutely, 100%, needs to do it to win assuming everyones on an equal skill level. Hard doesn't mean necessary.
So whats "light tunneling"? Do we get to define it? (Yes we're still not over you not providing definitions to put it lightly)
like if I'm playing a mouse 1 killer I literally do not have the chase capacity to go and play nice because that relies on downing people quickly;
All killers have powers they use to hunt down survivors. Trapper sets his traps so he can cut down chase time, Ghostface stealthfully ambushes survivors and can mark for instant downs, Pig has both stealth and one of the best stalls after a down. Not everyone focuses on running face first into the survivors screaming "WAAAAAAAAGH", some require a different approach.
so whenever someone says that killers shouldn't complain about tunneling being nerfed and should instead learn to play "normal" the only thing I can wonder is how exactly they want us to play.
Can only speak for the 3 of us but it kinda boils to "dont be a ****". It ain't that complex, its pretty close to basic empathy even. If as survivor I get unhooked and run into the killer on accident, fair game as its my fault. If as survivor im hooked and the killer stops chasing that injured survivor that was across the map to come try for me (ironically its usually those "s-tiers" you bring up, aka the ones whom you claim "they do not need to tunnel and camp" yet inexplicably do), im going to sigh a "really?" to the screen as im chased practically immediately. Bonus points if at 4+ gens when the killer is running 3-4 slowdowns.
do you want us to go to one survivor, another survivor, another survivor, another survivor, and repeat the cycle? do you seriously expect people to be able to do that against any team with an IQ of 20 while playing ghostface or dredge?
See, whom here said THAT one? Know the Rulebreakers didn't~ You should have defined what you mean by tunneling as THAT sounds more like hook carousel and not tunneling to us.
As an aside, im pretty sure an survivor with an IQ of 20 would be dying repeatedly since the normal range is around 80-110. So in that particular case, yes mr. bond we expect them to kill.3 -
By our definition, you tried to go after the unhooker, the unhooked wanted to get in the way and made the unhooker a less viable target.
I just wonder why it's ok for survivors to play efficiently and do gens, ignoring everything else while it's rather bad for a killer to do the same and get rid of any survivor as soon as possible in the game that rewards survivors who focus on getting gens fast and does punish killer who tries to spread the hooks instead?
It mostly boils to survivors often don't have anything better to do other than gens and the occasional killer power/perk. The rifts used to be something but that whole thing with people and nice things. Going out of the way to find all the dull totems doesn't even progress the game like even hook carousel does most times. Chests take some time but are really only used outta desperation/emergencies and can usually be done only once. The killer usually is the one giving survivors things to do (heal, unhook, hide, run, mend, cleanse, vaccinate, spray). Sure survivors could sit around and wait, but where does that lead?
Another thing to consider is that the survivor is eliminated, they're done for the round with all the rewards they got. When tunneled and camped, those rewards are…small. As killer you get a hefty amount of rewards unless you do absolutely horrible, even if your as efficient as possible and get less than you would have if you played with the food.
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light tunneling - going after a survivor once after they've been unhooked throughout the game. slightly deviating from the super nice playstyle for one second. different than hard tunneling at 5 gens. why do I have to explain this lmao?
you want definitions, I ask you to define how you want us to play, and you give me the most vague answer possible. "don't play like a dick" from my experience literally every way I play is me playing like a dick. so that doesn't help much
oh and I gotta ask, what about the survivors who are ultra efficient too and split up on gens and are good in chase? I'm sure you have the same attitude towards them and tell them to stop playing like dicks right?
you know, its so funny. your previous comments are basically asking me why I don't want to expand and define anything I'm saying, and ive already say why: because its a waste of time talking to you people. I point out and state why some killers are simply too weak to play in the super wholesome way you want them to, and you just go "nuh uh, just get better skillz" it really does prove that none of you ever had any argument and just want to gaslight players into playing the way you want them to.
"I dont give a ######### if you are playing clown against a 4 man who is doing everything in their power to win. You shouldn't be playing like a dick and tunneling anyone!"2 -
Can I ask, sincerely, why is it considered "nice" and "wholesome" to simply not tunnel?
Would that not just be playing the game like any other way of playing? Even if you think there's nothing wrong with tunnelling, surely every possible tactic, playstyle, situation, and action covered by "not tunnelling" should have the same neutrality, right?
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Rulebreaker's Light tunneling - going after the recently unhooked survivor until someone else eats a hit and then transferring to that one. Deviates from our "super nice" of hook carousel. The reason you have to explain is because as stated previously to TimberGoingDown, people have different versions of those words and we all (hopefully) want to be on the same page in a discussion.
If you want us to specify very well. When a survivor is unhooked don't go out of your way to chase and rehook that survivor. Ex: Unhook happens while your chasing someone across the map and you return to the hook immediately. Bad killer. The unhook happens in your face and the unhooker does nothing to help the unhooked as you go after the unhooked. Fair killer. The unhook is in your face and the unhooker takes a hit yet you still go after the unhooked. Bad killer. Unhook in face and the unhooker takes a hit but after a bit you realize it's going to be a time sink and leave where upon you stumble on the unhooked and murder them again. Fair killer. You hooked someone else and the unhook happened and you return and chase the unhooked. Rude but fair killer. Don't camp unless you absolutely know there's a survivor trying to obviously bait you into a chase (in which case it's their fault) or you've hooked someone next to a powered door (your fault but it would be completely stupid to leave without a target in this scenario). Chasing a survivor around the hook is not camping, its fair game. Don't slug people just to bleed them out. Feel free to leave slugs when they're under pallets. Dont repeatedly walk on the survivor to taunt them if they did nothing (we refuse to call it what others do as it looks to stupid to even acknowledge as such to us). All this does not apply if the survivor in question runs object of obsession (fk em).
That big ol wall of text is OUR version of "don't be a ****" and its probably missing things we cant think of. Obviously not everyone will agree or even care because everyone is free to do as they will but that's something we'd (Rulebreakers) like. Also note some of those examples would fall under our version of tunneling, yet are under "fair killer" to us such as "The unhook happens in your face and the unhooker does nothing to help the unhooked as you go after the unhooked. Fair killer." Tunneling itself isn't being a **** to us, but how people constantly use it, and at the start with 5 gens too, is. How much of the above is that unreasonable?
oh and I gotta ask, what about the survivors who are ultra efficient too and split up on gens and are good in chase? I'm sure you have the same attitude towards them and tell them to stop playing like dicks right?
Ultra efficient doesn't completely remove the killers ability to stop them and bar possibly repeated blast mines, have little else practical to do unless the killer gives them something to do. As killer, not tunneling doesn't mean your not progressing the game, survivors running up to the killer begging for chases is borderline asking for death. Bully squads are often the ones who need to stop being ****s such as full sabo squads doing everything to prevent hooks or blind squads with the same reason. Being good in chase isn't being a ****. Is the killer a **** for being good? No. Nock down and hook everyone in 5 minutes? Good for you. The asymmetrical nature of the game gives different ways to being a **** for each side. Being good at the game, is one shared where neither can be blamed.
you know, its so funny. your previous comments are basically asking me why I don't want to expand and define anything I'm saying, and ive already say why: because its a waste of time talking to you people.
Imagine how we feel…
You point out to us:like if I'm playing a mouse 1 killer I literally do not have the chase capacity to go and play nice because that relies on downing people quickly
we responded with:
Not everyone focuses on running face first into the survivors screaming "WAAAAAAAAGH", some require a different approach.
With some examples before we said that. We gave an counter argument, it may not be one you like but it exists.
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Meanwhile a legion ps5 player doing 12 hooks without tunneling or camping with only 1 gen regress perk beat team invictus winstreak of 202? was it? matches.
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Not everyone focuses on running face first into the survivors screaming "WAAAAAAAAGH", some require a different approach.I did not expect a Warhammer reference in my DbD forum today and it is much appreciated.
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That clearly means that team Invictus was not competent, since competent survivors are unbeatable.
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source please?
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It's funny because I was thinking about that while watching the match. From the killer's perspective, if you didn't recognize the names, how would you be able to tell this team was any different than any other group of survivors?
Link here: should go to the match we're talking about
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thanks. To be fair - there were a bunch of camping
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Bruh. Sometimes you have to…
But with shoulder the burden and second chance perks you just cant compete.
Hook survivior.
In the last 10 sec they unhook/
Unhooked survivior might have 80 seconds of OFT, 60 sec DS, 30 Sec Babysitter, DH.
When last stage remain there is dudes with Reassurance and STB.
Even if you did -1 with tunnel, it dosent matter.
Good surviviors alr done all gens and escape.I hate tunneling, but the higher you are then likely you will.
Because game wont reward you for chasing different persons.
For hooking different surviviors.
For trying to play for hook stages.
Game dosent help you AT ALL!!!
Devs made safety pillow for surviviors and after implementation of all Anti features idk how killer would be interesting to anyone.
Game is working when threat is real! But there is 3-4 real threats?
Rest are the joke.
Make all killers worth use them, make game rewarding you for playing role, then nerf all S tier killers. Then mb killers become fun to play as, when you dont have to think about 10 things in one match.
1 good/average survivior with some perks = Killer/
There is can be 4 of them.
(I m not taking solo Q for the mark, thats not cool when you are gone after 1-2 minutes of the match, but you could use this and buy time for teammates a lot of time, more than enough. And if they arent doing gens this means they lose right after you.)-1 -
What are we considering a bunch of camping (or as this thread has talked about at length, what's your definition)?
It's not the first two hooks for certain.
The 3rd person hooked is on death hook, but he still chases and picks up a survivor behind shack. He only comes back to that hook when the survivor is basically about to die (and being that hook is in the middle of the map we have no idea if he's just traversing across).
The 5th unhook he is in the general area because he's staying to the top of the map, but he doesn't even come back to the unhook when it happens.
The 6th hook he's in the area, but so are all of the survivors, though this would be the clearest call for some type of camping.
7th hook they pull pretty quickly and he comes for the unhooker, ignoring the person who was unhooked.
8th hook he goes to pop, they pull, his only real direction back is towards the hook and he goes for the healthy survivor instead of the unhooked.
He's defending the top side certainly, though there's never much of an opportunity to leave it, but he keeps getting in and taking chases up there. He actively ignores the survivor who gets unhooked on multiple occasions.
When I think camping I think a killer standing just outside the AFC range, not taking chases, or at minimum proxy camping an area around the hook and dropping chase if he gets too far and/or the unhook occurs. The Legion is chasing basically whoever he finds and being active in half of the map, and we don't know if he would have gone into the dungeon in the latter portions of the game because the survivors never try to draw him there (such as, by example, trying to reset below).
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EZ solution to anti-tunnel… no one can die before 5th hook, so if you hook single person, they will get extra hook states instead.
EZ solution to anti slug… slugged survivors can help themselves recover from the dying state aka. able to heal slugged survivor while slugged.
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Good survivors have no problem to get at least two people out against legion and that is minimum good survivors can beat legion with ez, legion can only get fast injures and some info while in power but thats all after that he is m1 killer with nothing to offer in antiloop, mobility. If it werent on haddonfield or simular weak map for survivors then they didnt give their best. If you watched otz survivor chalange with hens and another good survivor players when they have to get rank one snd each survivor that died coudnt be used every time they saw legion it was almost free escape ( if I remeber corretly thry have like one/two perks each and only thing that helped them was swf team work), legion is joke for every competent team.
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Invictus was on a 202 game winning streak. One of the best survivor teams in the world. The post is a good example of having a conclusion and working backwards from it.
Where there things Invictus could have done differently? Absolutely, but the killer makes quite a few mistakes as well (and also doesn't have an overpowered build on). It was not like they lost because of one single error or the killer playing an absolutely perfect game, they lost because they got outplayed even though it was a Legion spreading pressure, the type of thing people insist is impossible to win with.
If you watched otz survivor chalange with hens and another good survivor players when they have to get rank one snd each survivor that died coudnt be used every time they saw legion it was almost free escape ( if I remeber corretly thry have like one/two perks each and only thing that helped them was swf team work)The Hardcore Survivor challenge, done with Otz, Hens, Ayrun, and JRM, is not a great comparison because they start fresh accounts, meaning they are at new player MMR. They also can use any number of perks they want, but being they are on new accounts they have to unlock them and they can't use a perk after a survivor has died and they aren't allowed to stack bloodpoints to spend on other survivors (and the challenge went poorly for them this year).
Edit: Now that I think of it they do have perk restrictions early in the challenge, but they aren't really relevant and have little impact compared to the starting characters fresh with no BP.
Post edited by crogers271 on3 -
youtube compdbd
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Not every killer tunnels and a lot of killers don't or don't try to. I find myself accidentally tunneling when the same survivor keeps running into me because their the weakest pink getting pick off early. They shouldn't "nerf tunneling" or "add more perks for anti tunnel" but what I THINK they need to do is to stop adding tunneling perks or perks the promote it and then go from there. And also if we're gonna nerf tunneling are we gonna also talk about bully squads and survive with friends? Are we gonna talk about glitchy flashlight builds or people who bring builds that make it to where the killer can't play the game? Just saying...
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I get your message, like I said. When I'm playing Clown against a 4 man who is trying everything they can to win, I will make sure to purposely handicap myself because if I don't, I am rude and a bad killer. You are right.
(I should have known that trying to reason with someone who keeps referring to themselves as a collective and in the first person is probably a bad idea, though)-1 -
Because one single match invalidates thousands of others and proves your point completely
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Welp the "more reasonable" people tried to reason with ya but you ignored them. In fact the reason you got us (shared account between 3 wackos) was cause of that (currently missing) outburst instead of…like anything else. Heck, we gave you our version of tunneling and it doesn't really handicap you beyond NOT immediately gunning for the unhooked. But go on, keep digging deeper. Were not at 6 ft yet.
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Care to share who the three people are? I can take a wild guess
Also, the only reasonable person I've ever talked to here is Jesterkind :)-1 -
Title is something that applies to people who probably adopted the playstyle early on. Moved their MMR too high, and now struggle and have no tools or skillset outside of tunnel one person out as quickly as possible.
Definitely not true in the general sense though. Have hours of footage proving it false. From me, and many others.
After the title though, the reasoning the OP gave I dont really agree with and it seems like an odd way to correlate things.0 -
Oh, sorry, is that a killer exclusive line of reasoning?
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Yet you still ignored them. (ps sorry for the ping Jesterkind)
[If you manage to guess correctly I'll get us all to do a 180 on opinions for kicks and giggles]1 -
Late to the party, but I'd also like to add that anyone that downplays the effect 6.1.0 had on the Survivor role is intentionally being deceptive at best.
Basekit BT was originally too weak to have a big impact. At the same time, camping Killers had stronger hit recovery that would allow them to hit a healthy Survivor and hook grab them in one go. I had to start running Desperate Measures or else it was impossible. That, paired with a stronger gen regression meta, meant that they didn't have to interact with gens at all.
With very little means to progress and an extreme lack of autonomy, going next skyrocketed overnight.
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I always thought the forums was a place for the deranged but three people holding one account confirms it
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No
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Otz's Hardcore Survivor challenge is one of the most disgusting things in the DBD content creator sphere. A group of players that literally play for a living create smurf accounts to bully a bunch of baby killers, then upload it as "content" for all the world to see. It's the single reason why I refuse to watch any of their content.
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I don't wanna touch this one with a 10-foot pole but I don't think it's 3 "physical" people.
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Always found it pretty cringe
It's the same as those Noob3 clones whose entire content is just bullying baby killers and editing the video like an MLG montage, it's just not as obnoxious.-1 -
And you can tell that it's baby killers. They often don't know how to chase basic tiles.
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Who to watch than? Pretty sure most survivor content creators are Toxic. Or you think mish looping a baby killer for 5 gens and than not letting him get any kill when he downs someone just for views isnt Toxic? Or mish telling people to not Run Windows because they wont learn to loop because She thinks everyone is like her?
Or slate insta banning everyone that says something negative about him and insta flexing his ego?
Pretty sure the ONLY non Toxic streamer i have seen so far is spookyloopz
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Still waiting~
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I wouldnt say disgusting, but more like, misleading.
Not establishing that little disclaimer or fact before they post something like that is a bit disingenuous of them.
I think though with how MMR doesnt work sometimes that it ultimately doesnt matter with how many matches they play. They will play against the same people that everyone else plays against.2
