http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why removing the ability to die on hook and punish for DC is bad for the game
Comments
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He really was screaming for that. He's the polar opposite of FNAF 3. It's a similar thing with Child's Play imo (funny too because FNAF 3 always reminded me of Child's Play 3). I love the franchise but Chucky has never been fun to go against. He was especially broken at the start and only attracted campers and tunnelers. Even now, I know every trial is gonna suck with him.
At some point, I wonder if DBD does more harm than good if it's a player's first exposure to any given franchise.
The issue is that the game isn't stable enough to appropriately punish DCing. Between inconsistent matchmaking, balancing that encourages steamrolling, how isolated the experience has become, a lack of features to help break up static play, etc., it just makes sense to leave sometimes in order to preserve your time and sanity. If you take the punishment approach like BHVR did, you see what happens. Players are locked out for any reason under the sun and the queue starts to dry up. Likewise, we've seen what it's like with no penalty and at worst it's annoying. Find a way to ease the pressure DCing puts on a trial and it becomes a necessary evil or an inconvenience. You could still keep the penalty too, but I'd be really hesitant to let it go beyond ~10 minutes or make it decay in real-time like we do now.
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FNAF 3 is the only game in the series(actually the only time in the entire expanded series) that William Afton(Springtrap) acts that way. Every other time you see him(in the later games, the books, and in the movie) he is a talkative and overdramatic character. To be honest the nailed him perfectly in dbd. He may even be the most lore accurate licensed killer in the game now.
I feel like if dbd hurts people's sanity then they maybe just shouldn't be playing it at all? Too many people made doom queueing a habit imo. They really don't like the game anymore but they keep queuing up looking to find a match that will make them feel like when they started playing. It doesn't happen so they go next or DC and queue again. That isn't healthy for them or for the game.1 -
Telling players to leave has never been a good idea. It's the easy, avoidant way out of the problem. I'm not gonna lie and say asymmetrical horror is an easy genre to work on since it's almost resistant to health and fun, but you can tell when developers try versus when they only give the bare minimum.
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When it comes to issues of bugs and balancing decisions I would say yes telling people to leave over displeasure about that is inappropriate but I see a lot of people whose complaints are that there are things in the game they don't like. Not even things that are even just overpowered or whatever. But just things that exist that they personally don't like. They see a killer they don't like or a map they don't like or one of their teammates is opening a chest or has no mither, etc. and they decide they don't want to play.
if a game is only fun for someone if everything goes perfectly for them every time then I don't think that game is healthy for them.0 -
So, while I don't agree with op on that any point here, trying to say that "disconnects inflate kill rates" is just wrong.
Games with any disconnect have never been counted at all in kill rates, so disconnecting (while you shouldn't do it) doesn't impact kill rates at all.
Oddly though, since most of these people who want to get out of a game will find a way to do so, regardless. Now, instead of those players causing the game to be thrown out (by disconnecting), they will still give up, and die, which is what inflates the kill rate.
So, strictly speaking, removing or heavily penalizing disconnects is what actually "inflates the kill rate". You have that part exactly backwards.
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Lol this isn't correct. There is literally PRO teams who, played against PRO SKULL MERCHANTS that have stated that her 3 gen strat was ridiculous. Watch the video yourself it's like 50 minutes long.
Ghoul is definitely OP still even after the nerf and i bet more than 50% of the players would agree which makes it a problem whether you think they are crying or not lol.
The DC penalty wasnt bad previously so why buff it. Now if i get a matchmaking ban, the timer only decreases while my app is open... that's ridiculous. And i promise will cause many players to delete the game for ive had 5 already quit since most recent update. Its unnessasary and just downright obnoxious.
Love the game but every single player has quit at some point for many reasons. Bad teammates, teammates whom are teaming with killer (which mind you if you report teamers nothing ever happens @BHVR),
examples : possible cheating, even bugs make players quit. 90% of the time when i rage quit it tends to be someone cheating and most of the time they are but im still punished for leaving or i have a teammate whom just helps killer get you while they've been hiding entire game we ALL know it happens. Lag too.
Pc players who cheat actively continue cheating with very little repercussions for vpn basically saves them cuz BHVR's anti cheat is still horrid. Ive had cheaters pull my ip address and found my real name. Sad that playing the game puts me at risk and for BHVR to just shush players who speak out about anti cheat. Theres many many issues that will never be fixed.
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Theres a big difference between a game going perfectly and you being stuck in a match where people are mismatched in your MMR, afking, crouch hiding and not contributing to team play.
While you sit on the hook.4 -
That's where game design is at fault. It's not so much that the trial has to go perfectly, but that the experience has to feel worthwhile. For Survivors at least, they have to feel like they have the opportunity to play a full trial and have fun. Killer typically wants to interact with Survivor as much as possible and end in a 4k (at least since MMR). The game seemed to be at its best when 2k was the standard. Killer was more stressful, but more engaging. Survivor was more lax, but gave more room for the mistakes of your teammates (aka less SWF focused). Now that the game is in this odd comp space, players are more unhappy. Telling them to leave treats it as a "well you can't please everybody" situation, which is true, but you can at least try to make the experience better based on what they're telling you.
It's funny because the community tends to treat leaving these situations as a cardinal sin, punishable by death. But what does anyone do when their time is being wasted? Do you sit on hold in a call after 10 minutes? Do you stay seated at a restaurant after you've waited an hour for your order? Do you stay in the same lane behind the bus? There's just certain things we as people are unwilling to do. When a game, which is supposed to be a place to unwind, inconveniences you as much as the BS you have to put up with in life, there's a problem. DCing/going next is not pretty, but it's a solution to that problem. Maybe Phase 2 will make up for it, but we'll have to wait and see.
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Amen. Very very well said.
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aaaaaaaand how any of that justifies the DCing sabotage the community exploited? yeah, thanks, I know how bad 3 gen SM was, I even acknowledged it in the very message you responded to.
ghoul with 2 token loss (when its not bugged) is very much manageable if you arent terrible at the only skill expressive thing according to anti loop killers haters, and even if he isnt, there's nothing that genuinely warrants sabotaging games just to make a point for BHVR, skull merchant's gen hostage would've been addressed without it.
and too bad that people didnt just DC against just these two particular killers. Oh no, they were DCing and killing themselves against literally anything in any situation. I saw screenshots of ######### perkless trappers getting people to RQ.
your other points are completely irrelevant. if people cant handle playing the game and need to sabotage games for everyone else (and thus contributing to making the game actually unplayable and more miserable) then they need to ######### quit and it's good that these babies or burnt out miserable people are being driven away by harsher penalties.
genuinely been enjoying not having a dipshit killing themselves on hook because something went wrong every 2nd match as solo q survivor. too bad miserable people would rather bend over themselves and keep looking for ways to grief games instead of cutting their losses, but hey, at least there's less of them, as expected.
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I will never understand the level of anger toward going next. Guaranteed that anger isn't going to fade away and die with these preventions. Give it enough time and there will be complaints about how Survivors aren't trying hard enough and how we need to bring back harsher penalties for not playing "right".
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i will never understand why people are upset that instead of playing the game other people signed up for they give up at mildest inconveniences and proceed to grief and ruin matches, truly a mystery of the century.
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Lol you mad bro ? Its okay your wrong bubba
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i knew this would be a controversial post but didn't expect a perfect 31/31 split in upvotes/downvotes.
only way to settle these heavily divided disputes is a trial by combat. the ye's select their finest warrior, the nay's select theirs.
(and imagine if they removed the ability to upvote and downvote posts.. we wouldn't know what the community sentiment really was..)
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Like look at this @BHVR (id ping your company if I could)
Youre making people sit in matches like this one 5 gens. One was tunneled out (since he didnt want to play against the twins) and this other guy on the right just afks for all of it.
The person that tunneled out, touched a gen, but he just got unhooked and went straight back to it, didnt run from the killer or anything. So my report will probably do nothing in the end.
You generalized all the actual USE for doing this instead of treating the source of problems, as there are many not just this scenario. This match is dead it shouldnt have happened, I should have a way to get out WITHOUT being penalized or having to sit there on the hook for both stages. Which I did in the end.
I can report these people but to what end? Will the report feature even work here?
One guy definetely didnt play the game as intended and just wanted out. And another guy just afk'd.
So no punishment system for them, but punish the players actually playing and staying in game.
To be clear: There is no good option here, but the one you landed on BHVR is the worst option you could have gone with.
Do 0 investigating and fixing of things and detection of matches like this, which are plenty, and instead removed a system because of bad actors. Leaving players having to sit through crap like this.-1 -
Is this what we allow now? This is the trade off of hookacides?
You can freely play the game as long as you touch a generator, everything is fine. If you want out just stay on the generator and let the killer get a free hook/kill, a report wont do anything you touched the objective youre fine. Role play and ruin everyone elses match in a different language now.
As an aside BHVR look how common this crap is literally the next match
Your legitimate players have to sit in a match with 2 bots now. Hooray so glad hookacides are gone, what an amazing implementation1 -
yes i am reasonably mad about not being able to play the game because of griefers, you seem to be oddly defensive about that, sounds like you were one of those people :)
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I'd rather have bots and know those 2 players are staring at a timer than not have ANYTHING and those 2 players are in another match that they MIGHT decide not to ruin.
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I dont want multiple bots on my team, if I wanted that, I'd run a custom match. Or play a PVE game.
Having 2 bots that you know how to outsmart and manipulate to do stupid things (as it is easy to do) is not a game.
Its one thing to have a bot as a filler, but once half your team is the computer. The match should just end.
Can still dish out punishment for stuff like this just fine, just not have wasted games with multi-bots in the lobby, holding other players hostage.1 -
yea one people telling other to quit the game or telling them to uninstall/delete the game I had message sent tell me to do that after I had bad game, like to people want everyone to quit the game so it can die?
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so when every killer is in the same dumpster that sm is in what happens after?
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I feel like you're making a pretty sweeping generalisation about player opinion, and the degree to which players would use this system. All those killers you listed? I genuinely enjoy playing against, and I am by no means an incredibly skilled player. There are always going to be some bad faith actors in the playerbase, that's just statistics, but it's honestly not a terrible idea.
Also everyone has this idea that 'the matchmaking system is already bad enough, this will only make it worse', but if the matchmaking system is that bad anyway, shouldn't we be trying to push for changes? Even if those changes don't improve queue times, if they improve the quality of the games we do play, wouldn't that be a good thing?
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I want people who already hate the game to admit they hate it and quit instead of just continuing to ruin it for those of us who don't. I think that would be a lot better for them and the game in the long run.
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Maybe, if we didn't all sign up to play a game where either side can give up on a whim. It's just as one-sided as always.
Case in point.
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after Leatherface....
But they removed the faces ☹️
Nvm, you right.
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It's one thing when the players do it, but it's another when the devs tell you to do it as well. They'll never live down the Civ comment lmao
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There is no source. You can provide everything and they will quit the moment the match doesn't go their way. It's a mentality issue thats been rewarded for years and now has been taken away. When you take something from a spoiled child what happens? That's what's going on now.
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This is an ignorant thing to say there are many sources to giving up on hook and case in point, I would get out of these matches if I could. I have absolutely 0 problem saying this. These are legitimate matches that are ended, they have been ruined. These are the matches where giving up on hook is 100% justified.
The 2 that remained are forced to stay in these games that are outright ruined, and not even what we signed up for.
•We didnt que in the matchmaking system to have multiple bots on our team
•We didnt que in the matchmaking system to play 2v1
I said it earlier in this thread:
There were multiple things that had to be done before this change was implemented.
Right off the top of my head…
AFK crows should only go for so long before someone is kicked. On the third crow you should just get kicked and have a matchmaking penalty. (Easy solution)
Multiple computer bots should just end the match (easy solution)
Vote to surrender(easy solution)
There are countless things that COULD have been done, and I cant stress this enough, they went with possibly the worst option they could have. As they are now just punishing EVERYONE, including the players who stayed.Theres 80k players on steam alone, a matchmaking ban when you have a sea of several thousand players to sift through, will not do anything without other systems in place. Every PVP game at this stage in development knows this.
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Who ruined those matches? When is a match ruined? Is it when someone gets tunneled out? Why is that? How is the game supposed to go? All of you get out? Two of you get out? What happens if you didn't make the cut? Was it wasted effort? Are survivors that die wasting their time? Is it only the survivors that escape the ones to have fun?
A match is ruined when someone DCs or stops trying. It is ruined because someone in that lobby wanted to keep going and now they can't.
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Couple things in here:
Who ruined those matches? When is a match ruined? Is it when someone gets tunneled out? Why is that?
Already explained what happened. Scroll up. A survivor was not "tunneled out" they stood in the killers face and wanted next, only they want next now in a different language. By not running away and just sitting on a generator to get picked 2 times in a row.
1 stood still for all of this, as well as 2 other survivors being hooked. (The one who stood still afked for all of this, thats several minutes of 2 stages on both survivors and chase with both the others)
Another match had 2 people DC at the start of the match. Thats half the team gone and replaced by computers before any progress on generators.
Ie:The 2 that remained are forced to stay in these games that are outright ruined, and not even what we signed up for.
•We didnt que in the matchmaking system to have multiple bots on our team
•We didnt que in the matchmaking system to play 2v1We dont que up with bots, otherwise this would be somewhat PVE. The game even closes the match if someone DCs in the loading screen.
We dont que up with 2 survivors, the lobby timer doesnt even start.
These matches are ruined. Keeping them open is just wasting the 2 legitimate players' time.
-Theres supposed to be 4 in a match.How is the game supposed to go? All of you get out? Two of you get out? What happens if you didn't make the cut? Was it wasted effort? Are survivors that die wasting their time? Is it only the survivors that escape the ones to have fun?
Noone said any of this. Getting out has nothing to do with anything I have said.
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Just to highlight the bots problem.
Remember the last 2v8?
How was the communities reaction to queing up with that crap? What makes you think 1v4 wants bots in their games as well?
Forgetting the fact that I am talking about half the team being bots in my scenario.
And yes it is a straight parallel as you are getting bots at the start of your match in both cases here (I even have screenshot proof above). Survivors played for 5 seconds, saw it was a nurse, DC'ed.
They played for like 5 whole seconds. And the rest of the game is 2 computers on my team. Thats where we are at right now in this conversation.3 -
Yes, those are the types that ruin games. So I'm in agreement there. In fact I'm in agreement with what your saying and I must of misread.
I'll add a few points that are not pointed at you.
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The anti-go next did not create these players, they already existed and would ruin the game in any method you give them. Why? Because it's escape without worry or not try at all.
They DC on down before there was a timeout. Leaving others to play out what they abandon.
When DCs came with consequences they then died on hook before anyone could save. Make it in time? they stand still and let the killer kill them. If the killer ignores them, they start making noise.
These are not the kinds of players this game needs. They should not be catered to. They should learn to play with others or be removed. They ruin it for others.
Queue them up together, get them out of our matches. Let them feel the pain they make us go through having to play with them.
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Yeah I'm pretty fine with the current anti-go-next system, it can always use tweaking but overall my quality of matches has gone up. Do I still get bad matches? Yeah, but your average survivor match is around 10-15 minutes and if I'm having a ######### time I just go take a break and come back the next day or something. You can even see killer averages starting to go down slightly too now that people are comitting to their matches rather than just giving up at every percieved slight against them, it's incredible. I just think it's insanity to perform these Herculean feats of argumentation to keep what is, an objectively bad system. (Sacrificing yourself on the hook to inflate killrates.)
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"Lol this isn't correct. There is literally PRO teams who, played against PRO SKULL MERCHANTS that have stated that her 3 gen strat was ridiculous. Watch the video yourself it's like 50 minutes long."
How that version of SM correlates in any way with SM 2.0 that it warrants essentially killing her, ESPECIALLY after adding 8 gen kick limit?6 -
this community just calls everything they don't like broken and unfun.
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Lost your credibility when you started to defend Ghoul. If you defend that hideous thing of a killer in its current state, you're clearly a biased player and will excuse any killer that is either not fun to play against or completely unfair. People play video games to have fun & escape from reality, and since there isn't any ranked mode, thats all that matters.
I love how you call people bringing up valid criticism on specific killers as being crybabies but your entire post has been a complaint post about those types of players.
Wish we could go back to looking at it from both sides but a lot of people really make their bias known.
I have no problem with Kaneki as long as they remove his free hits & his ability to cancel swings. If you get outplayed and swing in a direction while the survivor doubles back and reverses pathing on you, you should be outplayed. You shouldn't be able to fix your mistake by cancelling a swing and immediately being back on the survivor's tail w/o any downside. This has happened a lot.
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if you cant stay in tiles for as long as possible, loop tight and not lose 50s against at least some of the ghouls to get minimal good chasetime, you're not good at the game, im sorry, this isn't the problem of the ghoul and this absolutely isn't something that justifies give up sabotaging
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Your post is a whole bunch of nothing. Just an insult.
You're the typical person who excuses bad killer design and blames people for criticizing it. Thanks for making my point.
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ok
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Yea this is another thing they could have done. Put the leavers and dcers in their own que. I think this is what LoL does with low priority queing.
Honor system and what not.2 -
Bhvrs' mistake was to let survivors get used to ragequitting. When they add DC penalties, they shouldve made sure these couldnt be skipped asap.
A surrender vote wouldve been preferable to the whole abandon copout.
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That's what's strange to me. BHVR was very against anything that affected the queue for a long time. So many ideas, like yours, were shot down. But the go next penalty and the crows was the polar opposite of that, punishing essentially everyone that played Survivor. So Idk. Maybe they will start doing things like that now.
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They are both m1 killers after they use their power to get the injury. Literally all the videos I see supposedly showing that Ghoul is overpowered are videos of people getting hit and then running into a dead zone in a straight line. That won't work against any killer with any sort of range or mobility.
I guess there is the enraged vault thing but I haven't even had that happen in a match against a ghoul.-2 -
Not just that, but players that are having internet issues that get disconnected against their own doing for whatever reasons are getting treated like rage quitters.
I had internet issues and got bumped a few times a few weeks ago and had a 15min penalty. I just quit the game. Came back two weeks later, waited out the timer then.. (which is messed up) just to hit another disconnect for a 30min. I quit and then deleted the game from steam.
It's devious to make the player wait till he hits next game to get the timer. And more so to stay in the game for it to count down.
This will bite them in the end
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The reason why they removed that is not so much BHVR's fault, It is the fault of the players who disconnected at the first hook, the whole community is guilty with our actions bhvr has to do things like that and I don´t think singularity is an abusable killer as was skull merchant is more rare to see a singularity and I don´t care if play against one. but skullmerchant was horrible, maybe another problematic killer is legion, but singularity mmmmm no
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They take players for granted. That has always been obvious to me.
The game is treated like hardcore serious mission critical no fun allowed rather than an entertainment venue.
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I feel like treating killers like they are "problematic" does nothing but lead to people getting harrassed for playing them.
It is better to say that a killer is overtuned - which Singularity is but Skull Merchant wasn't.
The community did absolutely bring anti-go next on itself though. I agree. And even with the meat of it killswitched rn I have gotten so much less people throwing games at the start of matches since they added it.0
