http://dbd.game/killswitch
Can someone explain the "healing meta" we're in right now?
Returning player (stopped around 8th year with a small stint playing again with unkown launch) who's been back a month and stuff feels good. Perk variety is generally high bar those who just run 4 slowdown perks as usual (although I see less of them) and as killer I also see a large variety of perks from survivors with more interesting builds. I keep on seeing people refer to this being a heal meta right now and I don't see it? No change in particular from recent stands out as a significant buff to healing and if anything other forms of altruistic perks such as background player and shoulder the burden seem to push other forms of altruism. The only massive change I could imagine is being health is quite important against springtrap but I think people are talking of a more long term thing. I do see quite a few medkits but this doesn't seem any different than usual and if anything I see a greater use in toolboxes alongside medkits than before. The only thing that stands out to me is I see more people running more forms of off the hook healing such as we'll make it and resurgance but I'd hardly call perks which improve efficency off hooks a healing meta.
Is there something I'm missing? Even when I play hit and run killers like wraith I don't feel like survivors are healing much more than previously. Outside the increase in off the hook stuff nothing seems massively different and if anything I'm seeing a good amount of anti-healing stuff from killer (namely gift of pain/whatever it's unlicenced name is) being ran due to being generically good. What is this healing meta people are talking about?
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Just the latest cope that struggling killer mains are having. There always has to be something out of their hands to justify all their shortcomings.
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It basically boils down to a few things
Medkits, while nowhere near as busted are still objectively the best survivor item and allow survivors to undo killer pressure quite significantly. Pair this with Botany Knowledge now no longer further debuffing medkits, now survivors with a medkit and botany can heal just as fast as someone else healing them and even slightly faster with other perks
Then there's also a new meta staple in Resurgence, which gives 70% heal progress after an unhook meaning once again, Killer pressure can be quickly undone without the need for perks like We'll make it and so on.
Tl;dr - Medkits with botany are really good again, Resurgence is a meta staple since its buff and other healing perks are really strong when put together
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It does not really exist. Well, if you compare it with the stay injured meta a long time back (DH, IW, Resi, later Made for this), survivor nowadays prefer it to be healed.
But its not really a meta. Yh medkits are the strongest item, but thats not really new. It wasnt rare to play against 4 medkits two years ago.
One big change is that one of the favourite juicer builds (Finesse + Dramaturgy) requires you to be healthy, but its not really the meta build.
If we go after pickrates WoO is king.
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- I think the people complaining about the "healing meta" are on the Asian servers. Here in Europe, I only see "we'll make it" and "resurrence" being really popular. I REALLY see in every build here in Europe "exhaustion perks," anti-tunnel perks, windows, or entire builds for "gen rush" Yes, I also see toolboxes being used much more than before.
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While I personally don't believe we're in a full on healing meta like the COH days, if every survivor brought resurgence, botany and medkits…
Let's just say you will really begin to notice it and it'll feel like you have to commit to every chase otherwise they heal off any damage you do as soon as you leave them.
That said, not every survivor plays the meta.
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It doesn't exist really. Botany got a small buff and people lost their minds.
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How is this constructive to the original post? Why do people always have to make it a us first them response….
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I don't see it either. Just the usual mix of the top 20 meta perks plus whatever else Survivors like to run sprinkled in.
I did see We'll Make It in a fair number of my recent games, but that hasn't had any buffs recently and is a good perk available to new players, so not really a huge surprise to see it often.
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I don't think it really exists, to be honest.
An actual healing meta would be something along the lines of Old COH, and that isn't happening. Botany got a small buff and Resurgence is being used more often, but that's it.
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This is how I feel feel. I see more healing perks being ran outside of dedicated healing builds but I don't really see healing builds or have it feel like a meta, more so healing perks are viable alongside what was meta. I find the most "average" build is something along the lines of an exhaustion perk, healing perk, second chance perk and than either a second second chance perk, chase perk or info perk which hardly feels like a healing meta but just healing perks existing. I find myself seeing more DH and DSs than botanies and resurgances so would I be more fair in saying it's an anti-tunnel meta? Hell in my last 20 games I'll probably seen more MTFs than botanies.
Medkits seem common still but that's not a healing meta that's medkits. Medkits provide both utility, safty and timesave while other items only provide one of thse usually which has been the case forever.
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It's hypberolated by killers who refuse to take anything but information and gen slowdown down perks instead of the actual tools they are given to help circumvent the healing. They're complaining because survivors got a buff to a nearly unused perk that brought it up to "used". And as we see, almost anytime a survivor gets something positive, killers behave like they've just been kneedcapped. Then again, as killers they should never be happy for survivor. So basically, they're just roleplaying.
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I have personally been experiencing games so goofy that as Blight (base 40m terror radius) survivors will manage to all consistently stay healthy all game whilst running Coulrophobia and Distressing (52m of half healing speed), as a killer that has a very easy to time applying pressure in multiple places. I can promise you the healing meta is very real and it really does feel like 2021 or 2022 all over again with CoH.
If one of the best pairings for interrupting healing/slowing it down is ineffective, what "tools" are you referring to that killers have to deal with it? Especially if it isn't an S-tier, which most players are not playing.
Also can you grow up and stop the tribalism? It's really childish to just go around and create/pretend there is conflict when there isn't. Someone asks a simple question and you instinctively start droning on about "KiLlEr MaIn ThIs" and " kiLlEr MaIn ThAt" when literally nobody asked for it. Engage in meaningful, constructive and objective discussion every once in a while.2 -
please take your toxic “us vs them” garbage somewhere else
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From what I have met medkits are strong again and healing under hooks can be done like4-6 seconds after unhook which is crazy plus orelas perk can be strong with other healing perks later on.
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I better see you on every post where someone says anything pointed to either side inciting "Tribalism".
I added sarcasm to the post, but clearly i struck a nerve. Unless you've gone through my post history (Which you probably haven't considering you're asking me to explain perk combinations when in my other posts i've stated a few in similar topics) then "EnGaGe In MeAnInGfUl, CoNsTrUcTiVe ObJeCtIvE DiScUsSiOn EvErY oNcE iN a WhIlE" doesn't apply here, because I have been..-4 -
Healing under hooks due to Resurgence is quite strong due to comboing with perks like Babysitter. Syringes still strong, now stronger with buffed Botany allowing faster medkit healing again. Orela's perks exist and can combo with this. Played well, it's very strong especially on anyone who is a mid or lower tier Killer or focuses on injury pressure/hit and run. This isn't quite as bad as the original CoH healing meta, but it certainly echoes of it, and at a certain level of play or against a really coordinated team, you're gonna feel it.
My suggestion? Run Exposed or Injury pressure perks, run stealth Killers that get free hits, run mobility Killers, and run one-hit-down/Exposing Killers. Killers like Myers, Billy, Ghostface, Pig, Pinhead, Oni, Huntress, Springtrap, etc. or run very strong Killers in general like Kaneki or Nurse. Don't run Killers like Wraith or Vecna.
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To be fair, that was mostly me ranting in these forums... 😏
And my issue with Botany is more the principle, rather than the actual strength. In every game I've ever played, I've hated having 1 option that trumps all other options... I enjoy finding quirky and unique things in games, and the niche value in the different options available to me...
So when one of the best healing perks in the game loses literally the only downside it has, so that the niche value of every other healing perks is completely eradicated... I got a little upset 😏
I've accepted it now and just banned myself from using Botany nowadays, so I'm chilling out again 😅
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Botany is king for general purpose healing no doubt.
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The toxic side of Killer Mains are upset that Survivors are healing each other. It's the same BS when they claim "gen rushing," just because they were looped long enough for multiple generators to get completed, or how they're upset about Survivors playing with friends (even though that gives no real advantage).
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ironic that you use the word “toxic” while contributing nothing but divisive “us vs them” rubbish into the discussion.
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If you're offended by what I said, then you're the toxic side of the community I was talking about. The majority of Killer Mains aren't toxic - they rarely employ toxic strategies and don't care about the "strategies" that the toxic side of the community claims is toxic.
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I mean it's fine we had to endure old sloppy butcher for years, one week with botany buffed the sky is falling
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Good counters to the "healing meta" are
Sloppy butcher, Nurses Calling, Coulrophobia, Weeping wounds, huge one is leverage, as that directly blocks Botany knowledge. It's nearly the equivalent of the lightborn to healing. 50% is a huge amount. Thanataphobia, Hex Pentamento after 2 totems lit up which isn't hard to pair with other strong perks. You have the ability to give exposed. Friends till the end, starstruck, dragons grip (Meme perk?) Devour hope which pairs well with pentamento, haunted grounds. For the more non camp heavy killers, make your choice is still in the game, just unused…There are addons for some killers with exposed etc.
Plenty of abilities that have addons that cause hemorrhage, there are so many tools for numerous killers in this game that can be used to help circumvent these heals to a degree. The point is to not make healing so bad it's not worth doing. At that point everyone might as well just run no mither if it gets to a point like several patches back where healing took so long someone recorded themselves taking 2 minutes to fully heal. Considering the amount of complaints, it seems like that's the only thing that might appease the outrage. (Obvious overexaggerating)
Medkits are 1 to 2 use things at best, and even then, paired against healing slowing builds, they still put pressure on the survivors.
Yes, medkits are better than they have been in a long time. Franklins doesn't drain, that part I think sucks, but it's still a useable perk especially paired with dredges weave attunement. Still viable so you can see when a survivor is going back to pick the item up.
Medkits can only be used 1 time, 2 at best with good addons….And any killer that is applying enough pressure will stop people from being able to just heal spam all game.
I cannot stress this enough, if a survivor is healing, they are not doing the objective.
Self care wasn't even touched, and botany knowledge didn't change it anything about the "Heal meta" for self care. It functionally pairs better now with medkits, but that's it. The only actual change that happened recently was literally the medkit effeciency decrease being taken away, and since then that's all people talk about is how OP this is now. If the complaint is a medkit is too strong with botany, you get just as much milage running we'll make it, auto at full stacks, Boon totem builds… I can go on and on, list endless perk combinations, but i feel a lot of it would fall on deaf ears. Met with "Why should I have to run these perks" etc. It's why i said. The tools are there. Use them. The game is about countering gameplay. The amount of anger i keep seeing from the community over a small buff Is why I even made the sarcastic comment about it in the first place, because it seems like "players" (Can't say killer apparently because that's tribalism) don't like this change. (Even though you will hardly see any survivor saying "Yeah the healing is too strong, it's got to go" )
Good day.1 -
Bro don't say that! You know this is a killer biased forum! But you aren't wrong and they hate that.
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I personally dont see this "healing meta" at all in my matches either.
Might just be your region OP
We'll make it is something I see from time to time, but botany and self care is pretty rare.1 -
I havent really been paying attention tbh. I can pick up most perks they run throughout the game (Chem trap seems to have noticeably increased in use) but i haven't paid much attention post-game to builds. If i notice it becoming widespread I'll just bring Gift of Pain and/or Leverage, or maybe even Dragon's Grip or Make Your Choice. I quite enjoy changing up my builds. With 6 new perks coming soon (TWD) survivors will have new things to mess around with anyway.
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Makes me wish they'd rebuff Sloppy just to help some of the low-tier killers gain some semblance of control again. Never mind gen regression or kicking, just slowing down heal-times would be nice. Especialy since you can almost get a six second heal off on your own.
As you said, not nearly as bad as the old CoH meta, but still rather irritating if you're not playing B-Teir or higher killers.
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Given how the game is, I don't know that it should ever be a surprise or something you can really blame players for.
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There is not really a Healing Meta. Botany Knowledge and Desperate Measures were buffed and suddenly those are the current things why Killers lose games. There has always been something, most of the time new Perks or buffed Perks.
In reality the changes were obviously not that big (the Botany Knowledge Change is the equivalent of a brown Add On for example) and while healing got a bit better, it is nowhere near problematic. We had times were Survivors could self-heal in 5 seconds, THOSE were problematic times. But not what we have now.
Post edited by Aven_Fallen on2 -
Killers got used to healing being so slow that survivors just didn’t bother with it. Now healing is fast enough with certain perk and item combinations to be worth bothering to do. The presence of a second health state they have to deal with past the first hook is confusing and angering to killer mains.
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You may be onto something.
The Asian community plays much less altruistically and with a bigger focus on self-healing and anti-heal, if I remember right.
So things like Mangled nerfs, Botany buff, and some other things might have caused a big change in the dynamics.
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The medkit arguement is a silly one, it's been made more accessible to use Medkits with healer builds. Suture is still the biggest offender for fast medkit healing, those great skill check heals if you're consistent with skill checks (which most experienced players are) are far more efficient, as they don't use charges.
Healers being able to use the item that's designed to be used for healing is barely an issue, suture is a problem because it curbs item charge consumption. I'd much prefer suture brought down and the base skill checks be brought back up from before the medkit rework/healing rework.
Please don't nerf healing in a tunnel/slug meta. It's the only thing fighting it back right now if even that.-4 -
They should revert the changes with mangled and hemorrhage as a whole as well as sloppy
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Agreed, something needs to be done, because Medkits are just a too strong at the moment.
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It's just the usual crying from killer mains where they literally cannot get enough handed to them. Survivor is already miserable to play, and it is baby easy to inflict damage to survivors and they don't want survivors to heal so they easy 1 tap. It's disgusting to say we are in a "healing meta" when literally survivors can't do anything else.
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"meta" in this community really just means popular choice, at least within a small circle of comp wannabes that think they've mastered the game because they were able to do a search on YouTube for the "best" build. now many assume it's the popular choice because it's stronger, but this isn't really the case. these strategies tend to become popular because a handful of popular content creators publicly voice their opinion that a certain strategy or build is "OP", and then a huge swath of casual wannabe comp players accept what they hear without question and mindlessly copy this approach and preach it to everyone else until most casuals accept it too. basically, what we call a common myth.
There are so many off-meta builds that are just as strong or stronger than a "meta" healing build if you are creative and use your own intelligence to adjust your playstyle to the build. I've even checked in a combination calculator that there are multi-million number of potential builds a survivor could bring into a match. do you really think a handful of popular content creators are so masterful at this game that they've experimented with millions of possible builds to find the one secret build/playstyle that is most effective? Nope. they just found something that works moderately well and made a video about it to make money, and the hive mind then regurgitates this opinion as though it is the divine truth said from the almighty entity itself.
Now the irony here is that because everyone knows about the "healing meta", killers respond to it by running anti-heal builds and so you just end up with a predictable and ineffective carbon copy playstyle if you follow the hive mind. which means you have average results and if you're a survivor that means you lose most of your matches. if you want better results you need to explore builds for yourself and use your own ingenuity and creativity to get above average results and surprise the opponent. then if you do that successfully enough you might even inspire a new meta that the hive mind adopts. but by the time that happens the creative player has already moved on to a new approach they've discovered, so the hive mind that defines what we call "meta" is always lagging a few steps behind what is actually the best approach.
it's analogous to music charts and how an original artist can come in with an amazing hit that everyone loves. but before you know it all the other artists are copying that formula and so it loses it's appeal quickly. and the original artist who set that trend has already moved on to a new style of music because he wants to push the boundaries. it's cool the first time you do it, but once everybody copies it, it ceases to be cool.
that's basically what the meta is like in DBD. the pioneers of it may have been ahead of the curve when they discovered it, but everyone who is blindly following these pioneers is always behind the curve in their approach. that isn't to say that it's wrong to use any given perk or approach, but that the player who learns second-hand is always losing to the player who teaches himself through experimentation. this is what separates exceptional players from average players who want to be exceptional. to be exceptional, you cannot follow the norm.
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idk man, no one brings them in my games, seems it's a pro player thing idk.
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Anyone calling it a 'heal meta' is deranged and out of touch.
For survivors, it's actually a 'free distance' meta where they're given a lot of arbitrary extra time in chase from perks like Sprint Burst and Lithe; and to a lesser extent Finesse. These perks are all within top 5 picks by survivors right now last time i checked nightlight(SB is 2nd I think?) and are ridiculous to play against.
Literally everything wrong with playijg killer right now IMO (other than questionable killer balance design) is the insane amount of extra arbitrary chase time that gets added whenever survivors use these BS zero thought zero skill perks.
Gens popping too fast? Survivors always seem to be healed up by the time you find them again? Killer just seems to be 'harder' to play now? It's because every single survivor is bringing a perk that's adding like 10-15 seconds to a chase for zero skill and zero thought. You have to catch up to these perks just to start the actual ######### chase. Survivors don't even loop anymore they just hold W.
It is the worst ######### part of the game right now. Everything wrong with DBD is concentrated in Sprint Burst and Lithe.
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"these strategies tend to become popular because a handful of popular content creators publicly voice their opinion"
It's honestly crazy to me the amount of sway that YouTube videos have over peoples minds and opinions. I see it with my eldest daughter when she's telling me that "people are saying... (insert latest talking point about her favourite singer/game/franchise)" and i have to interrupt her and ask, "oh "people" are saying, or just the YouTuber you watched is saying?"
I see the same thing on these forums when certain words or phrases suddenly become popular among a certain cohort of folks. I think, oh.. a new YouTube just dropped lol content creators tell folks there's a healing meta, so now all they'll be looking for in post-game are the healing perks that have actually always been there. And as a result they completely ignore the rest of the perks. Feels like the times someone will post a screenshot of their post-game screen and say the survivors were genrushing. But there's only a couple gen perks among them and no toolboxes etc.
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the funny thing about people acting like the medkit + botany thing is overpowered is that botany always applied to the syringe heal speed. thus you could always get a fast normal heal with botany using the charges on your medkit+any charge addon, then syringe yourself for an extremely quick heal while in chase or doing a generator anyway.
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Just the usual divisive “us vs them” garbage from survivor mains who claim that playing killer is “baby easy” even though they’ve never done it themselves before.
By the way, what is your overall escape rate, anyway?
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Killer mains always love to say people don't play killer if they say killer is easy. If you win way more playing killer then by definition it is easier and you can conclude it is unbalanced.
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Nah killer is easier. I'm a super fair killer. No tunneling and no camping. I also give unhooked people time to heal and will swerve if I stumble on them on accident. I give hatch a lot. Even being chill and merciful my kill rate is average at 60% and I still manage to get 4ks regularly.
I'm significantly better at survivor and do much worse (below the 40% survival rate). I take breaks from surv solely because I get tired of losing.
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Aren’t you contradicting yourself a bit there? Of course playing killer is going to feel easy if you go out of your way not to tunnel or camp, and even give survivors a free escapes. By doing that, you’ll stay in easier lobbies, consistently stomping players who are a lot worse than you.
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Playing fair isn't going "out my way," I'm just not being a dick. I don't understand what the point of even playing is if you only get hollow wins with cheap methods. What's satisfying about slugging everyone or tunneling them out with no chance for them to recover and engage properly?
The game gives me MUCH better players as killer than as surv. I can easily identify when they're better than me yet I still beat them because, again, killer is easier. Eventually even a great survivor will screw up or misjudge.
Because my surv escape rate is low, I get saddled with both bad killers and baby survivors when in soloq. I'm a P80-something and everyone else in my lobby is like a P5. If my soloq team sucks or is selfish we can't win, even against trash killers, so I lose to killers that are worse then me. The same way I win against survivors who are better than me. That balance is the same regardless of which side I play.
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I’m not a “‘main” anything. I play both sides. I have proven it with my stats, unlike you. Every time you have been called on out this, you just deflect rather than prove me wrong. The invitation always stands for you to provide evidence otherwise.
What is your escape rate, anyway? I’m very curious to know what escape rate is leading you to the conclusion that playing survivor is “impossible”. I’ve shown my stats on this forum - I’m right around the 40% average for solo queue. Many others have shown this as well. If you consider winning 40% of the time to be “impossible”, you’re welcome to that opinion but I think it’s a very unreasonable one.0 -
can you share your stats? I give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re being truthful, but I’m a bit skeptical based on my experience. I feel like I’m a an average-skilled survivor, yet I have been able to achieve 40% escape rate in solo queue. Killer experience is highly variable. I’ll get stomped sometimes by coordinated SWF teams (or even very good solo squads) and sometimes it’s a cakewalk. But it’s definitely not consistently easy match after match.
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I'm only a little under the escape average but look at the difference in matches played as each. I'm better at survivor. I win many chases, get lots of pallet stuns, run a build that blasts through gens, and am a big team player with unhooks, heals, and taking hits for people in dire situations, even strangers.
On the flipside, as I said, I'm a fair killer and dole out a good amount of mercy, and still maintain an average rate without much effort. It'd probably be a 70-75% if I turned it up a little.
Meanwhile, I'm desperately trying to get my escape rate up, yet it's not uncommon for me to die 10 matches in a row. For me to play double the survivor matches but do much worse is not balanced at all.
I agree though, I don't believe it easy every match. It's just generally easier. The difference is my killer matches, even when the people are skilled, are easy like every other match or so. As survivor, even if we destroy the killer the whole match, they'll just panic and start slugging, or they'll have NOED. The issue is more that the game rewards bad killers but never rewards bad survivors.
@I_Cant_Loop
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Some people are just agreeing with others who don't see a healing meta emerging right now.
I've run Botany Knowledge for years. I used to pair Spine Chill with Circle of Healing, plus two floating perks depending on the match. After both of those got nerfed, my go-to setup shifted to Self-Care, Botany, Deja Vu, and one flexible slot. Honestly, I rotate builds all the time. Sometimes I go anti-slugging/camping, other times I run sabo builds.
Saying there's a healing meta feels off. Players adapt their loadouts based on perk changes and personal playstyles. Just like me, people build around what works for them, not necessarily what's dominant. There will always be combos that click for different players.
Players are always going to find something to complain about, it's just part of the game's DNA. I complain all the time too! Personally, I wish they'd introduce more comedic-style killers. Imagine something absurd like a sock puppet monster, a chaotic Muppet from the void chasing survivors while whispering nonsense. It'd be hilarious and terrifying all at once.
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I don't bother keeping up with my stats but I know how it feels to play both. I would say I win one or two times out of ten and those wins are purely RNG, killer playing nice, throwing, etc. On the flip side I win a majority of killer games and when I lose it is because I played nice, too easy, etc.
If you a good survivor, 40% is not balance. Sorry but you should be winning more.
Bad survivors shouldn't automatically lose all their games because the game "gives" killer an automatic advantage.
It's a PvP game, not a power fantasy whatever.
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