http://dbd.game/killswitch
Piling on the Anti-ghoul discussion
You know I've probably played against Ghoul as much as anyone. And this killer from my matches is the one that I see the most players disconnect against, or give up against, or just not even try against. Like the quality of matches against Ghoul are so bad that the moment I hear his terror radius I just have to roll my eyes because its gonna be one of those games.
We can talk about whether or not Ghoul is overpowered but if you think about Legion who was never overpowered people still hated going against that killer. And Ghoul is being played at a much higher rate than I've ever seen Legion being played at. And Ghoul is stronger than Legion has probably ever been as well regardless.
So here's the issue. With Ghoul too many things are free. Ghoul disregards any distance you ever make as a survivor. There's literally no getting away from this killer, ever, if they just refuse to leave you alone. Ghoul gets free injuries on top of it and injuries that also force you to mend and waste additional time.
Plenty of killers have "free" movement although none to the extent Ghoul does. And plenty of killers don't have difficulty establishing initial injuries although not to the extent Ghoul does (outside of Legion when the entire team is grouped up in the same area).
And then you combine with the ability to totally disregard god pallets. And the fact that perks like Bamboozle and Blood Favor also activate off their power creates for just a miserable experience for survivors.
But the strongest element that Ghoul has especially in regards to facing a typical Solo Queue team is just the ability to engage against multiple survivors frequently. This single aspect of Ghoul, or of any killer, is the strongest thing you can have against Solo Queue because it lets the killer easily find who the weak links are and chase them out of the match. It's just that simple. If you can engage frequently with multiple survivors, the matchmaking doesn't do a good job of making sure everyones the same skill level, and there's usually 2 survivors that aren't very capable in chase, so you just chase them out of the match.
And while Skull Merchant was bad, like probably worse than Ghoul, she wasn't a franchise killer. And at least that made her easier to address and to change. And also players could more easily just DC and "go next" against her, which BHVR has attempted to take away from us as an option. So we're kind of in a bad place, with no real way to show BHVR just how frustrating this killer is, and all we can do is make posts like these and hope BHVR turns an ear to us.
They probably will, but will whatever changes they make actually address the killer in a way that makes it fun to play against? That's a tall order for this Killer who in many ways has a very overloaded kit. And if you're gonna chime in to say "it's not that strong!", well that's far, far from the point.
Comments
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They shouldn't Skull Merchant Ghoul. End of story.
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How to finaly fix ghoul:
- Reduce the range to auto-lock and free injure survivors.
- Remove the ability to injure Survivors behind solid objects (even pallets, windows).
- Nerf speed of vaulting with your power.
- Slightly increase cooldown on canceling your leaps (tiny bit).
This is the minimum they should do.
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I don't believe they were asking for that.
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So does this mean we should nerf every teleporting / dashing killers or is this just purely hate towards Ghoul?
Blight is stronger than ghoul and just as fast. Nurse is stronger than ghoul and doesnt care about walls or pallets. Unknown can teleport from one side of the map to another and has ranged injuring ability. Springtrap can teleport straight to gens or hide in a door next to a gen… should i go on?
let's just nerf every killer survivors have to do more than camp pallets against..
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I agree, not even mentioning the basekit slowdown of leaving survivors with deep wounds, so he also has the worst part of legion.
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There is definitely a "its ghoul" with an audible breathe in and breathe out when you load into these matches… almost as if you know how the match is already going to go.
All for you to go against this s tier killer and they end up just camping the hook in the end and tunneling someone out.
Uh…. why is it like this? Make it stop.
I had a P100 9k hour double iri blight match last night, and THAT wasnt that bad compared to these Kaneki matches.
Ill take this over a kaneki match, thats where we are at with this Kaneki killer…
Shoutout to this blight they didnt tunnel or camp and they still brought the heat.
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That is true, but what would you do about it? Nerf all the fast killers to M1 speeds or boost the M1 and lower mobility killers to blight and ghoul levels?
I rather play the faster killers because playing on slow M1 killer on bigger maps is miserable.. and 4.4 killers are even worse.
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They have to have a downside somehwere, nerfing the S-Tiers will only promote healthier killer variety.
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No, they weren't, but it comes from a place of distrust for BHVR. Because not many asked for skull merchant to be gutted until a hazy rework some day but it's how BHVR decided to address it. Therefore the only control we have is to give different feedback by making comments like the one you replied to.
This feels especially true considering the balance changes made to Clown and Knight on PTB, outrageous decisions by BHVR is how many would consider it.0 -
Survs just hate mobility killers, period. There's going to be whining about Ghoul no matter what.
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Playing against most of the non mobility killers is really boring to me, there's not much tension and most are a snoozefest win or lose
it's like when playing Monster Hunter and Souls games I want each new monster/boss to be challenging and an actual threat
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Nerf his vaulting speed and remove deep wound that's maybe fair but gutting him comoletely would be unfair.
Most killers can stomp soloQ and are almost as overpowered anyway. You can only win in this game as survivor playing extremely well and getting lucky.
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They shouldn't have Skull Merchanted Skull Merchant, if that makes sense.
However, Ghoul does need nerfs. This killer is extremely oppressive and basically has no counterplay, other than getting the gens as fast as possible and hope for a decent map.
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people are mad that it feels cheap to lose a healthy state and i feel that too, the first hit is so dumbly free. But if you really look into it he is just a better legion since after the first hit he is m1…
Another thing is people dont like rush chars that can apply pressure and he can travel fast in the map, the hate is that and the players will grow up to accept it, changing ghoul is basically merchant 2
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Calling a character who leaps across the map in 2 seconds, cancels power on a dime and hits you a "m1" is not remotely accurate.
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two cases 1- everything is bad and we dont wanna play anymore.
or
2- S tiers go down to A tier and will still be better than the other 20+ killers in the game stuck in garbage tiers
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I dont wanna say youre bad at the game but its looking like that in this comment, same thinking as wraith op because he bodyblocked the pallet or the window.
Ghoul is actually easy to loop for a long time, he jumps windows slow enough for you to go around it and fast vault.
His power fully recharges every pallet broken so W key away.
If he dashes you just look to WHERE he is going, its for you or the pallet/window? IF its YOU its safe to jump window/pallet or drop pallet, if its WINDOW/PALLET just run away from it (like we do when nurse charges tp for too long running into her), because he will be stuck going the other way and cancelling power.
Other than that just watch competitive players looping him, hens posted a video today holding a ghoul EASILY for 2 gens and escaping, you need to learn how to loop every killer as survivor, loop a nurse like its a trapper and it will be a bad time….
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Acting like it's easy for casual players to play like people who play this game every day for a job is quite unreasonable
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well the end result is make everyone skull merchant tier because at the end of the day that's all complaining will lead to
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so why butcher skull merchant since casual players cant hold a chess? why change knight working AI. Casual players actually consume a lot of youtube videos and they are not looping ghoul properly because they dont have the information on HOW to do it. Its not like they arent skilled enough for it…
Also casual players will be in a low mmr enough to get some diversity of killers in their trials, so asking for a ghoul change in the forum is just laziness to learn counterplay, because you need some decent mmr to constantly face blight,ghoul,nurse
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Wait for the PIG crouched buff OP comments flow in the next patch, while vigil are countering freddy snares and clow bottles for A LONG TIME
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Casual =/= Bad
Casual players will eventually reach the soft mmr cap and be put with people with thousands and thousands of hours who play exclusively 4 slowdown Ghoul/Blight and so on.
It's not laziness, Ghoul has genuine problems that need addressing and people do have legitimate complaints. Nobody's saying he's impossible to beat or that there's nothing you can do at all times. They're saying he's frustrating to go against, too rewarding for too little effort and has aspects that remove a lot of survivor agency in a chase (Like an undodgeable hitscan attack)
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Thats what im saying casuals arent bad and will learn to deal with him overtime, and i also said that besides the free hit he doesnt have a consistently down confirmation, he is just a better legion because the dash allows you to bodyblock pallets and windows, while legion is just a guy with a knife after the power attack.
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Yeah but you're also trying to act like all people's other complaints apart from the hitscan attack are invalid or "skill issues" despite the fact there's genuine grievances with his power and by asking for changes they are asking for a skull merchant style gutting
Nobody worth their salt is asking for that.
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I get multiple p100 ghouls everyday it's boring at this point, always hard tunneling because they play "efficiently" but it's overkill on him, this killer has zero counterplay if it's played correctly and your escape chance is in the 10% it's disgusting
I can respect a good nurse or blight because i'm not good with them it's not that easy… but these ghoul mains are extra cringe they need to learn the game with normal killers, he's too easy to play to be this strong
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I have bad feeling you will get stoned here by people effected and suffering hard from ghoulphobia.
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Hes a better legion?
Do you play legion? I do just for context.
Their powers, their mobility, how they have to play around pallets/loops, their map pressure, their speed…, their counterplay isnt the same (kaneki doesnt really have one, at least you can block the next feral)
You cant even risk feral frenzy on a stun like you can with Kaneki's power. You dont care if you miss with his power. Funny enough you miss with his power behind terain and you get the hit anyways.You cant even make it to the next loop WITH SB, Overcome, Lithe against Kaneki.
You 100% can for legion.
Nothing between kaneki and legion are even alike.
Finding the mend part between the two and then saying "better legion" is just not a correct thing to say.-5 -
I think a lot of the recent hate/complaints is the event's fault though
Ghoul + Remote pallet break is genuinely unbearable
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If people want to draw parallels between killers especially what Kaneki does
This is what it is like.
This is 1:1 how a nurse plays and moves. There is absolutely 0% in here how a legion plays at all.
Missed my first blink? Ah who cares I have a correction blink, and I move at full killer base speed and get 3 charges after I hit you. So I get bookmark for no effort is this fun?-5 -
i try to be fair in most threads, on release everyone was selling and some still sell the idea that animatronic is OP, and i think its just a cope because we wanted him a lot
Ghoul enfuriates most players because of the cheap free hit, most bad players hate to stay injured so they heal he comes back and injures again, generating frustration. We buffed healing perks because of that but anyone with experience knows how insane 3+ heals on a kit x 4 Survivors is crazy pressure wise, and it hurts mostly weak hit and run killers like sadako,ghostface,wraith but doesnt affect nurse,blight,ghoul as much.
So killers to avoid getting slammed gravitate to nurse,blight,ghoul generating these community problems, while most of the killer roaster is rotting.
Another example is people loving to go against bubba, then you go play bubba and after some games is just people running Windows of Opportunity pre dropping all pallets to not get chainsawed, and only after you break 14+ pallets you can play the game (if there are gens left) and if you run bamboozle. Another thing that blight,ghoul,nurse can ignore/deal with pallets…
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People didn't like those killers because they were boring to play against, I don't see what you're talking about.
I'm looking forward to the new Skull Merchant however-2 -
I play since 2016 and i am a freddy main, yes i play a lot of legion my brother. Hes my second most played killer with a 63% kill rate according to dbd stats
Kaneki mending is shorter than legion, he just has the skill to cut pathing with power to bodyblock windows and pallets
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Keep the commentary civil and respectful.
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The reason I ask is because of the things I listed in comparing to legion. I genuinely want to know how we are taking what legion can do and what kaneki can do and then using them almost interchangably in conversation.
here they are again:
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I agree if we just nerfed every killer who has good map pressure then every killer will be generally the same. I think survivors only want killers who are easy to counter like Trapper and Skull Marchant.
Honestly its more frustrating to go against survivors who want every second chance perk and gut every new killer so they don't have to change there strategies. Yes I've had a survivor say this to me saying that every killer should be the exact same and survivors should be stronger than killer 100%. If we prevented people from playing killers they want then we won't have any killers playing. That goes for survivor as well that if we prevented Survivors from playing how we want then we won't have any survivors playing. We should let players play with who and how they want even if it's annoying because it creates verify that the game needs.
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Share Your "Fun To Play Against" Killer Tier List!
There was a thread to dispell or alleviate some of the worry about what survivors/killers or players in general/the community enjoy going against ill post a link to it here.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962093
Credit to: @GeneralVHope they bring back SM to a decent power level ♥
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The issue was never his vault, the issue was always that Kaneki Mark pausing your momentum, it just feels bad.
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Bubba is bad as hell if you dont run beast mark (green addon +2% speed and +12% charge speed, every bubba main runs it for reason as before his small buff they run it with chilly which most of it is now basekit) he is kinda meh its just palett breaking simulator and cheap 2k killer (just take slowdown tunnel one out no one can body block and in endgame its free kill if you get someone). People love him I think its just the thrill having chainsaw swinging maniac behind you with instadown but in reality he is weak as hell and withou addons like beast mark you cant get better survivors around loops even with sick mind games (only tryhard who enjoy them and it gives them good feeling play him like seth,for me its too much stress for very little reward).
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Mostly its just combination of easy first hit with blight like mobility just way easier and some good catch up against holding W and antiloop in form of enraged vault. fact is most survivors cant play injured they lack the skill of looping without getting stuck or making stupid suicidal mistakes that will get their teammates right after and blame killer.
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Buddy this is past now ghoul cant get flick hits because he is just bugged, nurse would compleatly ignore that bush and blight woul need more time but his antiloop is wa better than ghouls same as his skill cap.
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Thanks for mentioning me, my friend!
I hope you've found that discussion of mine to be enjoyable, and I hope it shed some light into this matter of which killers are actually liked or disliked.
And yes, here is to hoping Skull Merchant doesn't lose her identity and gets her power back <3
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isn't that because they got rid of the animation lock? or did that not happen yet? because i remember reading notes saying they got rid of it to stop kidnap tech
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You know whats funny after their firs fix I havent met kidnap tech but now after fnaf chapter gave ghoul so many bugs kidnap tech exist and works which is one of his buggs that are making him stronger than he should be just like loosing 1 token when breaking palett enraged (you should loo two).
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I understand the concern. However I think a reply like that one doesn't really add anything to the conversation. We don't know if they think Ghoul is fine, needs minor tweaks, or needs massive changes. In short they didn't offer any useful feedback for BHVR.
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Nothing I love more than someone lecturing me about skill while defending a character with literal AUTOAIM.
"If he dashes you just look to WHERE he is going, its for you or the pallet/window? IF its YOU its safe to jump window/pallet or drop pallet, if its WINDOW/PALLET just run away from it (like we do when nurse charges tp for too long running into her), because he will be stuck going the other way and cancelling power."
Wow this all sounds so much like looping a M1 killer and not a killer with multiple anti-loop abilities that are better than many characters that lack all his other strengths (stupid mobility, free injure) while being easier to play than all of them.
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Ghoul's in a pretty tricky spot, he's gotten nothing but nerfs since release but I don't know what else you can do to him that isn't just outright kneecapping him forever. The number changes are probably as close as you can get without making him feel like complete ass to play too. You can't rework him either because he'll just changed into something more boring overall. My only suggestion I can offer is to remove the pallet vaulting and replace it with a pallet break like Blight/Wesker's iri addon.
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I will say I disagree with your assessment of Overcome here
You need to be healthy to use it, so if you're looping Kaneki somewhere and he injures you either with M1 or the grab attack - You'll 100% be able to make it somewhere else on most maps.
It's gotten to the point a lot of the time when a Ghoul grab attacks me and sees I have overcome they don't bother committing because I'm already miles away.
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