http://dbd.game/killswitch
Franklin's demise get's nerfed because your code can't handle item changes.
So since a few weeks since some of the healing perks got buffed Medkits became (again) kinda hard and annoying to deal with. But hey for that we had franklin's demise so when all 4 Survivors brought medkits we could at least deal with it somehow.
But soon we have nothing. Sure when all 4 bring flashlights someone can still use lightborn but for Medkits and Toolboxes we have absolutely no counter anymore.
And hey I'm glad Keys and Maps get reworked while we also get a new Item that looks fun. But when the meta is Medkits and Toolboxes and you take the last counter away from us because your code can't handle a new "Charge" system for certain Items it becomes unfair.
Comments
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I miss the version of Franklin’s that just took off charges per hit. It felt balanced to me.
Like I feel like no regression at all is a bit too far as well as welp the item is just toasted now. Removing charges based on how many times it’s dropped seems fair enough.
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If there was even a hint that a survivor perk would do the equivalent to franklins, people would burn these forums to the ground.
Even the tamest version, which would be something like "puts the killers power on cooldown when hitting a survivor" would make people lose their minds.
Let alone "go back and pick it up so you can use it at all", or even "just go drop it in the corner to play around the perk, duh".
These are already limited use items, many with just one use at all without some heavy investment.
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I joined the game in 2021 so with the current version of Franklin's but that original version does seem much better a change for the current meta…. though with the changes they would need to figure out some way to make it remove a percentage of charges due to medkits and toolkits still having massive charges. So that's likely why they are just removing the charge loss entirely.
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The counter to healing is to do damage.
Franklin's demise will still make a survivor drop the item, making it unavailable to them unless they waste time running back to where they maybe remember dropping it all for the low cost of a single M1 weapon swing. It costs the killer nothing since I'm pretty sure they were planning to hit the survivor anyway and with the update will still, at worst, give them time off gen for a survivor.
If every survivor brings a maxed out med-kit and runs only the best meta healing perks available it still isn't impossible to win as a killer. Comparatively more difficult to a group that brings nothing? Sure - otherwise, why have items. Unfairly more difficult? No.
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I know plenty will disagree but the proposed change is pretty fair. BHVR falls into this trap of Killer having the advantage in every way possible and then wonder why queues are the way they are.
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I don't know how you can equate those two. A killer's power vers a toolbox. Then add to that times four? How are you making this leap?
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If that were true, then they wouldn't have buffed Built to Last and Streetwise. True Streetwise no longer reduces the charge consumption rate, but now items retrieved from chests can have +80% more charges. Built to Last restores charges, and now can do it 4 seconds sooner. If they couldn't figure out how to make Franklin's Demise consume charges at a low rate, then it stands that they wouldn't be able to figure out how to make them recharge, or gain more charges than they would normally have (without add-ons) either.
Hell everyone's acting like FD was the ONLY counter that killers had to items, but they forget that Overwhelming Presence is a victim here too. Original OP, which hasn't been changed in almost 7 years, caused items to burn through their charges at double the rate as long as said items were being used within the killers TR. They changed it completely and removed its ability to affect the rate charges are consumed. it was literally the difference of changing 1 charge per second to 2, which on their new charges system, would mean keeping it at 2 per use instead of per second. While some people are arguing that OP's new effect is much better, all I see is a pattern of Tremendous buffs to survivors items, their functionality, and perks that give them more charges, and the complete removal anything the killer had that could drain them/counter them. Which is really sad to be honest… Items have always been a pain in the ass for killers, but at least they had 2 perks as options for countering them, and as long as they had that option, no one complained. For crying out loud, both of those perks had easy counters:
FD: drop your own item before chase or getting hit.
OP: Don't use your Item when you hear the heartbeat.
And yet the devs STILL decided to take them away as options to counter items, while buffing the hell out of said items and perks that compliment them. Killers would have been fine with it if they left FD and OP alone, but by removing their power to deplete charges on items, it's like the devs are saying "No counter play for you! Yes, we really are that biased."
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They aren't exactly equal, but items are the closest thing survivors have to a killer power.
Your build only gets 4 perks and add-ons. Survivor items are a watered down version of a killer power you can slot in, put add-ons to taste, and for that flexibility (and there are 4 of them per match) they are limited use. Usually limited by charges, or uses, depending on which items we're talking about.
But nearly every killer power is infinite use in some or all capacity, and while there may be counter play, there aren't perks that completely shut down the killer from using their power, even temporarily. That's what franklins, and to some degree weave do for items.
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anything is better than what they got in the ptb
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I don't get why they just dont code another "entity spikes/claws" effect but for items.
Maybe have survivors able to pick them up but for 60s they're unusable
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IDK why they don't just revert it to that because we're going to a charge based system. Just make it lose 2/3/4 charges and drop it, then make charges standardized across items. Or, make it not remove charges, but apply an inefficiency of 10/15/25% to the item. I don't see how making the perk grant inefficiency as long as the Surv is holding it would be hard to code.
ANY change would be way more fair than gutting it this way.
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The survivor equivalent is generally basekit. You can disarm bear traps and hag traps, use EMPs against singularity, antidote against nemesis, use alarm clocks against Freddy, ect.
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They COULD always bring back FD's previous version from patch 4.1.0, you know, the one wherein charges weren't affected in the items at all, but if the item was left on the ground for 90 seconds, the entity flat out eats it?
Hell, considering how over tuned the items are becoming, and the Massive amount of anniversary Flashlights, Medkits and Toolboxes the survivors are getting due to the extended anniversary event… Restoring FD's ability to potentially delete them is sounding more and more like the right way to go the more I think about it.
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I’m happy with the Franklin’s nerf on paper, but it really should have waited for the remaining items to get a rework. At least, they need streamlined add ons, similar to what the new/reworked items in the upcoming patch. 5 add one that each buff one aspect of each item would be a lot easier to balance, I feel. Add-ons in general need streamlining in my opinion.
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It would be something like if a survivor perk was released that caused a killer's add-ons to go on cooldown, or just deactivate. Items and add-ons give players was to customise their playstyle. So having something that can limit that creative freedom isn't great for gameplay.
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Closest think to killers power, while correct, is still very far apart. Killer's power is fundamental to how they are played. Otherwise they are just trapless Trappers. A survivor is not defined by the item that they bring as items are fundamental different. They may project a role but does not pigeon hole them into that role. If you lose a toolbox your are not prevented to repair. Losing a medkit doesn't mean you cannot be healed. Dropping a flashlight does not mean you can't get away from the killer. They are tools to help the survivor. Killer's powers are the killer.
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I don't believe that could work in practice. Disabling an addon that drastically changes the power or even the killer walk speed would cause a spaghetti nightmare I don't want to think about.
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I already addressed counter play.
The closest thing honestly would be more like xenomorph turret, where the killer power is interrupted and goes on cooldown and can't be immediately used right away.
And turrets take more than just equipping a perk and nothing else: collection, set up, and going your chase can capitalize on that prep.
And just look at how much fun killers tend to think the turret mechanic is, it's not popular. And it doesn't remove the entire power from play for the entire match, not even close, even with all of that investment.
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I'm not trying to say they're identical.
My entire point is that survivors do not have a perk that even functions similar to this mechanic.
The closest thing would be maybe flame turrets for xenomorph or possibly emp, but even that takes time (off gens) to collect, deploy (turret), and use.
Neither of those is even close to "equip perk, and play like normal for extra value with no additional requirement or time investment", which was my entire point.
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My question is, why not just have it remove a charge every time it's knocked outta their hands if they're changing how it works, when it comes to items with set charges?
Not really the best option, but at least it's something.1 -
Thats essentially how it originally was. Everything they dropped it, they lost a %.
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Not even sure how many times I even see this perk used. And I run syringe almost every match.
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They purposely stayed away from perks and items countering powers so they didnt feel needed against those killers. Instead of flashlights erasing hag traps, you could do it by hand for example. They didnt want it to feel terrible going against the killer if you DIDNT bring a specific item or perk.
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Franklin's was gross. Good riddance
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Still less budted then strong medkits with fast healing, toolboxes that were genrushing and instant fladhlights, franklins only benefit killers who use m1 as their primary attack an most of these killers are the weakest ones that get effected by items more then they should and lobbyes like full of medkits are very strong against them (wraith,ghostface,pig they will loose hit and run ss option because their injures on survivors does buy them few seconds totaly revoking the slowdown and effort, time killer put into this better for him woul be to just hard tunnel one instead spreading preassure by hitting more survivors against full medkit teams).
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Hoe they will bring old franklins back just dropping item and loosing some charges.
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I don't think something like that should be introduced. It's just an example to show how survivors tend to view Frankie's. I don't think the perk needed nerfing, but I can see why it might get changed. Having a perk that limits creativity, just makes the game more boring to play. Lightborn has a similar problem, where it makes parts of a survivor's loadout completely useless, with no counterplay. Although, flashlights are often so disruptive, that the perk will likely always have to stay as it is.
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My entire point is that survivors do not have a perk that even functions similar to this mechanic.
OK, but why is that a surprise? The roles are not perfect opposites and you cannot expect pariry on every perk, item, and addon.
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it was too weak tho, by the time you deal any meaningful damage, the item would've been used up on its own anyway.
the best version will always be the charge timer one, though i would always love the "entity eats item" version cuz it was so petty
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True it didn't matter much back then. But with the changes to medkits and toolboxes, losing a few charges could mean the difference between a full and partial heal now.
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yeah, though they'd still get at least one self heal bc meta addons give 2 heals.
but dont forget there arent just medkits, there are also toolboxes and flashlights. not counting other items as they arent as impactful, but keep them in mind as well.
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I mean keep it as is, and give me a flat 20k-25k bp for each time I have to play against Franklin’s on top of what I’d earn otherwise. Also let the killers know in their perk description they reimburse the funds.That should cover the item, and two addons purchased in my blood web, and now being down around possibly a build, and the added frustration of not being able to use what I brought in. Consider it a reimbursement 🫶
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Yeah I'm sorry BHVR but the franklins change just seems like them being lazy. Instead of making it affect certain items differently they effectively lowered the perks value tremendously when not paired with weave. But uuhhh I guess we get to keep the medkits on the floor with styptics and syringes ready to use in them now.
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According to them it is a buff and the change was made so the perk is used more. I don't know why, but something tells me it's not going to happen.
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