http://dbd.game/killswitch
Would be healthy to remove some chain blinding?
Basically, chain blinding is shining again after the first got blinded once, to earn value from the previous blind, leading to a faster and longer blinding.
Some chain blindings personally feel detrimental to the game overall
Case A: Hooks, if the Killer hooks someone, you're able to blind him from behind the hook with no counterplay 2 times, enabling a safe rescue for a 3 survivor.
Reasoning: I think this is unhealthy because it abuses the interactivity of hooking while punishing the hooking action wich should be encouraged, it's not the same case like blinding on pallets or window animations since those are chase scenarios. Also this encourages hook farming to abuse the basekit bt protection hit since the savior will not have to trade the hook.
Case B: Saves, after doing a flashlight save you can chainblind to deepen the gap between the killer and the injured survivor.
Reasoning: after performing a save if you chain blind theres also no counterplay since the killer is stuck on the stun animation (wich by itself its a mechanic to create space to the injured survivor), the problem with the chain blind is that it also allows the healthy survivor to create a big distance too and apply perks like champion off light ,residual manifest, while charging exhaustion.
Worst case scenario vigil,champion,sprint burst, fixated.
Mechanically, the blinding feels like an invisible meter that fills with the shining of the light and decays overtime, chaining blinds is refilling this meter before it depletes too much. The big problem is that after one blinding is succesfull the meter doesnt go back to 0 instantly, and thats why in SOME cases grenades are healthier. Chain blinding also isnt a problem for low-skilled players, but if the increased blinding duration for the second blind is so meaningful maybe the addons should to that job, instead of cheesing the game code. Also it isnt a problem on chases that much, just on uncounterable scenarios like the previous mentioned where you cant move your head as a killer.
Comments
-
what stops you from looking down?
anytime im getting chainblinded is because i neglected to do the counterplay.
12 -
did you actually read the post? you cant move the camera on case A and B… Said it multiple times in the post that in chase you can easily look down….
1 -
Yeah, but this is 1 Chainblind at max.
8 -
Still logically shouldnt the blind meter reset after a succesfull one?, 1 chain blind can do a lot distance wise (not agains high tiers, but a pig or plague really feels it)
-4 -
For case B, that’s two chain blinds max (the second one happening right as you regain control of your character) and has no reason to be removed. Any blind perks would be triggered by the save anyway, and you’d make more distance leaving after the first blind than staying to regain exhaustion. Allowing the survivors to chain blinds after a save allows them to help mask the direction the saved survivor took at the cost of free distance they could have taken.
There also is counterplay both in the form of lightborn and shadowborn in this scenario. As for case A, using your ears allows you to make the “free save” a hook trade as it would be if you weren’t blinded anyway.
-2 -
Lightborn is basically the best way to deal with it, to be honest.
6 -
the fixated vigil combo is blinding getting the extra speed walking away while blinding if you only blind standing still its just wrong, also its wise to assume the saved person will w key away anyway since they are hurt. Besides lightborn shadowborn doesnt help that much match wise because the ideal play is not getting blinded.
"Any blind perks are applied on the save", true but you are resetting them and increasing value from the extra blind after the first one. Or you waste a perk slot on lightborn or suffer, if franklin goes live without charge depletion it will be super bad for the games overall.
Using audio to counter FL saves is kinda of a niche scenario because of course you will not pickup if you hear someone close… Still we have background player in the game wich counters any hearing you may have, once someone falls on the open you have to pick up and risk a blind or leave them there and risk 2 chance perks. Thats why experience killers slug so much, we dont know how many things are into play until they happen
-3 -
If someone is running fixated vigil sprint burst champion, they still move faster just shining the flashlight and moving away while regaining exhaustion than staying in range for 2 chain blinds. Same without champion/fixated, even with the range add-ons you’re better off leaving the blind range than chaining twice. Lightborn directly counters blinds and shadowborn would give the killer speed to catch up to a chaining survivor that just wasted their distance.
All perks with blinding on the survivor side (champion, residual) also have a cooldown on use, so you’re not re-applying their effects with a chain blind anyway.
As for audio, I mean listen to the survivor movement after scenario A and you can tell where they will be saving from and interrupt either with your power or an M1.
0 -
case A: you can still hit, it's not a "safe" unhook if that's one person because you can still hit them, if there are 2 more people, it's a pull without trade anyways.
case B: it doesnt matter, you can still look down to prevent further blinds.
none of the examples you've named are "problematic". you are getting survivors pulled anyway, they are making distance anyway.
in all other cases these included learn to look down to stop more chain blinds.
out of all things to call an issue you choose this.
-2 -
Case A isn't true. Sure you will get blinded once, but you need to look down after the animation is complete. The key to this one is look down while you are going to the hook. You will get blinded once in animation and then thats it. If you are getting chain blinded after that, its on you.
Case B you have a point, its a little tricker, but to be fair there are A LOT of counter measures to this before a survivor gets a save to begin with. Face a wall, bait the survivor, use lightborne, or fireup, or forever entwined. This doesn't include if you are playing specific killers that can counter this a bit better, than others too.
-2 -
Given the risk of potentially giving someone a seizure and accessibility issues. It would be reasonable i think to give being blinded a short 2-3 second cooldown before you can be blinded again.
3 -
Yes but you shouldn't need to bring a perk to deal with something this easy to have happen. if I'm chain blinded it's usually from a stun into blind, or a blind as I break a pallet and then blinded again when I look up so I have no chance to avoid it, as I'm animation locked. I think OP wants THAT kind of chain blinding or chain stunning gone, and I agree with it. Survivors can't be stunned twice in succession, why is it okay for Killers to be double stunned like this?
It's also as Reinami points out, an accessibility issue.
3 -
Why is it okay for Killer to be double stunned like this?
Because being blinded with a Flashlight is not a stun. You can still move, you can still perform (most) actions. All it does it prevent your ability to see.
Keep in mind that a perk like Hex: Two Can Play CAN do the same to Survivors, since you can double blind Survivors with the perk, and if the argument is "why do you have to bring a perk to double blind Survivors", Survivors have to bring items or perks to even blind to begin with (or invest time to get it out of a chest), let alone double blind… because that's how the game functions.
Flashlights are already the worst item in the game, with Medkits and Toolboxes being significantly stronger, I dont think Flashlights need to be nerfed or changed anymore than they already have, it serves to make builds less diverse and punish creativity.
0 -
Well, I agree, friend.
2 -
When are you blinding the Killer?
When they pick up or at a pallet. It's fine at a pallet, but it's significantly more of an issue during pickup, where it does stun the Killer. The Killer cannot dodge a blind during pickup or while breaking a pallet. That's the fundamental issue, if you stun the Killer with a pallet or into a drop, you can stun them again with a blind. That's not really fair.
0 -
I can see an argument for giving a small blind immunity while hooking a survivor. I disagree with removing chain blinding though. I see no problem with chain blinds after a flashlight save. You can still hear the injured survivor and follow them if you want.
0 -
Survivors don't get stunned so it's kinda hard to make a comparison. They can be double tapped injured though.
5 -
Install Lightborn, problem solved.
Although eventually the survs will whine it into being nerfed.0 -
Again, blinding the Killer with a Flashlight IS NOT A STUN. I dont know how many times I have to repeat this since mechanically a STUN and a BLIND are two different things.
- A Flashbang in an FPS game is a BLIND, it restricts vision through blinding them and prevents a player from readily being able to shoot as an opponent, movement and turning is not altered.
- A Concussion Grenade in an FPS game is a STUN, it restricts movement and your ability to turn/look around, but you can still see what is happening in front of you.
- In DBD, BLINDING the Killer is not a STUN. Decisive Strike is a STUN. Dropping a Pallet is a STUN. Head On is a STUN. Flightlight Blinds are a BLIND. THEY ARE MECHANICALLY TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, A BLIND IS NOT A STUN, A STUN IS NOT A BLIND.
Also again, most people do not have an issue with this mechanic. It quite literally poses no issue. You can look down, look away, and use MANY perks to counter it (Fire Up, Brutal Strength, THWACK!, Lightborn, Shadowborn, Hex: Two Can Play just to name a few). NEVER have I had a game where being chain-blinded "ruined" or affected the outcome of the match, nor has it ever posed an issue or been problematic.
Funniest part is that if a Survivor were to just time their blind, they can get the same results as chain-blinding in those cases, which quite literally means removing it accomplishes nothing since Killer can still get blinded at the end of interactions anyways. This entire discussion is effectively pointless since the thing you are complaining about can be accomplished without chain-blinding to begin with, it's just complaining about things for the sake of complaining.
All chain-blinding is, on a fundamental level, is the DBD equivalent of a party trick, it does not accomplish anything meaningful, and maybe you get a bit more Bloodpoints, but that's it.
-1 -
All hail to our Lord and Savior 🫲😎🫱
4 -
So? basically free escapes + sprint burst distance, no scratchs no hearing…
I have literal compilations on this, hooking animations, stun animations + for the guy that said the FL blind didnt get far without grip for it to be a problem… Imagine how nuts this is with grip.
Also on this clip no vigil,residual or built to last was in play…
2 -
If you can't move then what's the point of not getting chain blind? Worst case you get the full duration once you regain controll.
-1 -
yeah idk why people use glasses, seeing is overrated…
2 -
but you can't see anyways? Are you asking that blinds cannot occur while in animation lock? Because I didn't get that from the OP. It just sounds like you don't like the extended duration from the initial save or blind. To which I see no issues with.
-1 -
You should not have to bring a perk to counter something that functionally has no equivalent on the other side and that you otherwise cannot defend against - that being stunned and then blinded while stunned.
You shouldn't have to bring a perk to completely stop something at all, either side, but that's a totally different discussion.
0 -
Because getting stunlocked in games sucks. This is a form of stunlocking.
1 -
In the least, there does need to be a recourse on blinds, meaning a full blind should have to wear off completely before another can be applied, that's only fair.
The killer should also become harder to blind if they get the scoring event for avoiding a full blind.
Currently, you can get the scoring event for dodging a badly timed blind at a dropped pallet, but then you're just blinded anyway on the pallet break which is just annoying, what's the point of having that scoring event if you don't get a bit of resistance with it as a reward?
2 -
Case A: That is 3 survivors not on gens all swarmed around the same hook, sounds great to me. And it's 1 blind, unless you simply can't look down…
Case B: If you down a survivor, face a wall when you pick them up. If there's no walls nearby, be cautious then. Quickly scout around the downed survivor where others may be hiding. Get a free injury/chase them away and then pick up.
If you hate it that much, use Lightborn or something. I don't have any issues with flashlights lol
0 -
Except being blinded by a flashlight only stuns you during pick-up animation, not while you're hooking, breaking a pallet, etc. Part of the killer gameplay is looking down and tracking the survivor by sound if you're blinded.
0 -
It sure is a savior, my friend!
I never play without it.
1 -
Stunlocking? The mildest tamest form maybe and even then is a stretch. Stunlocking puts you in a possition you cannot get out of without the source stopping. Once you are able to look away, it's over.
0 -
Redefine it however you want. No matter how rare it is, being stunned and then hit with another stun is stunlocking because it locks you into the stun animation.
-1 -
This, the big issue isn't that blinds can't be worked around. The issue is that multiple blinds in a row, especially when the Killer cannot avoid them such as while breaking a pallet, is really really really annoying.
In fact I would compare it to how annoying it is to be a Survivor and working on a gen, see Deadlock block the gen, and then see Grim proc and block the SAME GEN later. Yes, you can technically work around it by going to another gen or waiting it out, but it's still really Fogging annoying to deal with.
0 -
I didn't calem or I say it was rare. I believe we both said it's not a stunlock and even in your statement you prove it's not a stunlock. The only time you are stun/unable to move is when you are blind while caring a survivor. Hooking a survivor is not a stun, it's an animation lock which you will be in blind or not.
0 -
But the Killer doesn't get any sort of stun if blinded while hooking, plus it's not usually possible to actually blind in the hooking animation. I had it happen to me only once, and that was back when the blind hitboxes were bugged for a few months making blinds more powerful than they should be.
If you are stunned, and then get stunned again, it's a stunlock because you are locked into a stun animation. If you are blinded which causes a drop, then get stunned again for whatever reason, it's a stunlock because you are locked into a stun animation. This is the literal definition of a stunlock.
Here is the definition of Stunlocking from Wiktionary:stunlock (third-person singular simple present stunlocks, present participle stunlocking, simple past and past participle stunlocked)
- (video games, transitive) To render (a character) unable to move or react by repeatedly hitting them and keeping them in a stunned state.
It does not say it has to be a specific number of times. It does say repeatedly. A Killer being stunned and then stunned again right after is therefore a kind of stunlock.
Here is a discussion on NeoGAF from as recent as 5 years ago about why Stunlocking is still a thing and still feels bad. The general consensus there is it feels bad unless it's a fighting game or it makes sense to have it, in which case it's a feature not a bug. DBD is not a fighting game, and it doesn't make any real sense to be able to double-punish the Killer this way unless you want to irritate them, so being able to stunlock a Killer is therefore poor game design that needs addressing. And being able to chainblind, though not a problem, is similar for the reason that it doesn't feel good for the Killer to get blinded repeatedly especially when they cannot act to stop it, such as while in the stun animation.
Now, I will concede that in many cases a blind isn't a stunlock, but it still FEELS unfair because you still cannot react in an animation. The Killer cannot stop a blind while they are in the stun animation. The Killer cannot look away from a blind while picking up so they have to preemptively face away from a possible blind. The Killer does not get to "save" against stuns or blinds while already stunned, and that doesn't really feel good. Why does the Survivor get to have double stun/blind points off of me while I am locked in an animation, that feels like insult to injury.
If you have any further discussion on this feel free to disagree or add it. But my description of what a stunlock is wasn't wrong just because you disagree with it.
0 -
If you are stunned, and then get stunned again, it's a stunlock because you are locked into a stun animation. If you are blinded which causes a drop, then get stunned again for whatever reason, it's a stunlock because you are locked into a stun animation. This is the literal definition of a stunlock.
The issue is that 2nd blind does not lock you in animation or does not extend the duration of the initial stun animation. While your definition is true, it does not match the situation of being chain blind.
If a survivor can constantly blind a killer and that killer cannot move until it stops, that would be stun locking. You cannot point to a situation where that is true in DBD.
0 -
the chain blind sometimes happen when you are not locked in an animation, thats right BUT since it uses the already pre filled meter of the blind it is not humanly reactable (if this word exists), you can see one of the examples i provided in a youtube cut.
In that video the first blind was unavoidable due to the pallet breaking, but the second one was undeserved and far off the killer POV but it worked due to the meter already being prefilled
1 -
If you had read the comment I made, you'd see I mentioned this specific situation as not being a stunlock. However, I DID mention it as feeling similar to one in that the Killer doesn't have agency to stop a blind when in the middle of an animation, any animation - such as the stun animation. Nobody is getting mad if they get blinded at a pallet, but being stunned and then blinded when you cannot do anything to prevent it feels bad. That's it that's the whole point it feels bad. It feels as bad as actually being stunlocked does. Why is a Survivor allowed to stun the Killer, and then kick them while they're down by blinding them? it makes no sense and serves no tactical purpose except to farm BP off the Killer, who probably got annoyed you forced them into an unavoidable blind through an animation. At least give me the chance to preemptively ward the blind off.
I also believe the "prefilling" of the blind meter should be looked at. At the very least, a successful stun or blind beforehand should definitely reset it back to zero and give at least a second of resistance so the Killer has a chance to avoid it. This would also serve to make blinds and stuns more skillful for Survivors, because they have to be more careful of how and when they do it.
0 -
look down, not side to side.
0 -
I did read it but you failed to provide a situation where flashlight blinds stun the killer twice. Instead you give that it feels like a stunlock. Feels like a stunlock is subjective. It doesn't feel like a stunlock to me, so which one of us is right? That's why our definition needs to be objective, in which we both agree.
If you are blinded which causes a drop, then get stunned again for whatever reason, it's a stunlock because you are locked into a stun animation.
If that second action was a pallet or head-on then this conversation wouldn't even occur. But it's about being blind a second time. If you want me to agree getting chain blind is a stunlock, then provide the example where the act of being blind a second time prevents you from moving.
0 -
I… I did though.
I literally did. Like I LITERALLY mentioned it right here, and I quote:
"And being able to chainblind, though not a problem, is similar for the reason that it doesn't feel good for the Killer to get blinded repeatedly especially when they cannot act to stop it, such as while in the stun animation."
I actually can point to a case where a Killer cannot move from a blind until an animation stops. It's when the Killer gets stunned somehow - say with Head On or a pallet or even from dropping the Survivor when blinded while carrying - and then another Survivor blinds them successfully because they sat there and pointed their flashlight at them as they were in the animation and waited. The Killer is locked into an animation, they can't avoid that blind. It's not a traditional stunlock, but it still feels unfair like one, and again. If you had read my posts before, you would realize I have said it's not a true stunlock despite feeling just as bad.
I feel you want to engage in a disingenuous argument where you move goalposts and try to find some "gotcha" when I have already supplied examples of these situations and made exceptions, as you asked, for when it feels bad despite not being a true stunlock. I think the discussion has run its course here.
0 -
It's not a traditional stunlock, but it still feels unfair like one, and again.
I feel you want to engage in a disingenuous argument where you move goalposts and try to find some "gotcha" when I have already supplied examples of these situations and made exceptions, as you asked, for when it feels bad despite not being a true stunlock.
I haven't moved the goal post once. You started out saying chain blinds was a stunlock. Not that it feels like but was. Then when pressed for examples you said its not like a traditional stunlock and it feels bad.
Again, a stunlock is when you prevent another player from moving on their own. Blinding a killer while in animation from head-on does not re-stun or extend the current stun timer. Also this example isn't chain blinding which was the point of this thread.
You can say all you want that chain blinding doesn't feel good. We are all allowed our opinions on how the game makes us feel. But don't be conflating being blinded with being stun. You are fully capable of stopping the blinds by looking up, down, or away. In no way are you forced to continually be blind.
-2 -
I've laid all my points out and you're still looking to argue, so I am no longer interested.
Have a lovely rest of your day. :)
1 -
It is a stun and the game treats it as one, which is why being blinded triggers stun related killer perks. You don't know what you are talking about.
0
