http://dbd.game/killswitch
Tunneling and Slugging Aren’t Toxic and Should Be Encouraged
[This mainly goes to players who played hundreds of hours]
The same goes for survivors, they can also bring extreme stuff like 4 syringes, 4 of that perk etc.
Why?
Because you have to assume either side is going to try their best and do these things. I mainly play killer but that is irrelevant to the fact that same thing goes for each side. If you are playing survivor and you get tunnelled and you are solo q then you are likely going to bring anti-tunnelling perks and play with a team and then adopt the meta basically. There are counter perks for all of this stuff anyways.
I’m saying this because I don’t think it should be considered “toxic” to slug or tunnel, and killers shouldn’t be guilted into playing ‘too nice.’”. People who say it is toxic do the same" toxic" thing back to the opposing side. Killers shouldn’t feel guilty for tunneling or slugging. These are necessary strategies for when survivors are playing to win.
Additionally, I want to say that the perks dbd releases with each character, if they are weak they might as well never added it in, it just fills up the loadout bar with useless junk. About like 20% of the perks you have are actually useable. If they just slightly buffed the underperforming perks or just completely removed them it would be great.
Also dbd is a competitive game, it will never be casual without some changes.
just make chaos shuffle a permanent mode.
Comments
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Its just game theory
-3 -
I wouldn't say they should be encouraged. I think the game as a whole would be much better if killers had reasons to spread hooks.
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This, the issue is they currently don't.
There is a reason to tactically leave a down or pressure a weak link, yes, but there is no reason to tunnel someone out all round or leave them to bleed out (unless they crawl off and you cannot find them or something, that's an accident).
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I play both sides.
As killer, I don’t follow some unwritten rulebook. I proxy camp if it makes sense, I tunnel – sometimes even right from the start – and I slug if I need the pressure or if the situation calls for it.But that also means: no double standards from me. If the killer tunnels me as survivor? I don’t care. Tunnel me. I don’t care.
Even if you show up with something strong – Nurse, Blight, whatever – I know that if I’m the one being tunneled, I’ve got to step up and deliver for my team. And if I mess up my chase or don’t get proper cover:
Sorry team, I tried. my badIf it’s a really good killer and the map favors them and I’m not in a full team, I’m often fully aware:
I’m probably not making it out. Especially in SoloQ.
(That said – I’ve also had SoloQ matches with insane teamwork and cover from randys. Props to my SoloQ teammates <3 But yipp – most SoloQ teams still break down at some point because of a mistake or missing comms.)Either way, I fight until the very end.
Personally, I don’t think this whole tunneling thing is as bad or as big of a deal as people make it out to be.Most of the time i really dont care if i get tunneled tbh.
The entire map is now mine – I know where I’ve been, what resources are gone, and where I can still take the chase.
Way better than going against killers who are constantly switching targets, barely committing to chases, and just trying to catch people in dead zones for quick downs. That kind of playstyle just makes the whole match feel like there were no real chases. (more borin for me, less teamplay, less interaction)But anything you do that’s considered “dirty” will always be seen as “toxic.” That’s how it’s been since 2016 and it’s still a thing today. I think that’s honestly sad and unfortunate. For me, nothing that happens during the match is truly toxic unless it clearly breaks BHVR’s actual rules. As long as it’s within the game mechanics, it’s fair game.
what I personally think makes DBD “toxic” is the after-chat — that’s where most of the negativity comes from. d lot of DBD players have never really played true PvP games before and just can’t handle it when others don’t see DBD as a chill horror game with skill checks and friends, but instead treat it like a competitive PvP game it also is. ( I mean, everyone should just play however they want.)
but.. that’s something you just have to expect when you play online PvP games with random people — not everyone plays the way you want them to. Some play harder, more ruthless, and that’s valid too. I personally don’t take any of it too seriously. I come from games like Hunt: Showdown and Tarkov. I know what real “camping” looks like — when someone literally sits in a bush for 40 minutes just to hold a body and make sure that team has absolutely zero chance of getting it back.
And that’s why you lose everything. A Hunter you’ve spent hours leveling up is permanently gone, your entire loadout is wiped… etc. That’s why I can’t really take the whole thing in DBD too seriously, where you can lose almost nothing in like 10 minutes and jump straight into the next match.
maybe that’s why I don’t take all the “boohoo the killer’s camping and now tunneling too” talk in DBD too seriously, idk
Especially in DBD. Whenever something escalates, I always see like 100 things where I think, “#########, this could’ve been played way better here or there, or the team messed up at this point…” Unlike in a shooter where sometimes you just get randomly headshot out of nowhere after 30 minutes by someone who was just better positioned, and then you’re done.
In DBD, you usually immediately come up with like 10 things that could’ve gone better the moment you mess something up — especially as a survivor.
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Also dbd is a competitive game, it will never be casual without some changes.
a 4 v 1 is comp…..
a game where if one survivor dies the team crumbles, or where if 2 survivors are left the game is unwinnable for the survivors
u wanna be competitve sure
saying the game is competive because they made the game more fast paced instead of 10 years of hooking animations…no
play as u like, stop forcing people on this comp mindset
what the hell is so competitve about facing a myers exactly? yea guys he is teleporting to- oh wait he is just an m1 killer that has to walk like 80% of the killer roaster, the only comp side of it guessing the perks which is usually very easy…..
tho im guessing u are fine with kaneki? since he is opressive as hell and makes the game "comp"
-1 -
The real question here is what kind of gameplay should the devs be aiming for?
The killer drives the gameplay, period. If the killer is afk or bugged and physically unable to play the game for some reason, then survivor gameplay becomes "do gens and leave". There is no game.
Yet that's nearly the gameplay that hard camping and tunneling (at the start of the game) provide. The killer focuses on one player, to the exclusion of nearly everything else, and for 3 survivors the game becomes "do gens or lose". And if the killer can eliminate that first player quickly enough, which is more often than not by the stats, even "doing gens" will still mean losing.
So, when the killer alone chooses to play this way, the first survivor tunneled out doesn't get to do anything else, gets about 5k BP (punished for not getting to play), and when they added "go next" (which who knows if that's coming back) was literally punished with penalties if they got tunneled too quickly.
For the other 3, the killer basically doesn't exist, so the only real option is to do gens and stare at a progress bar, and maybe have a chance of escape. And even then, it's not only not guaranteed, but you're basically playing PVE and likely to still lose. All because the killer has decided that they want to play this way.
So why is this the "meta" strategy and gameplay loop? Why has it been 9 years where defenses to prevent this have been nerfed on top of core game changes that have actually increased the effectiveness of these strategies?
If we're going to start actively punishing players for standing still too long, why is it "a perfectly acceptable strategy" when the killer, the one player that drives the gameplay, does it camping the first hook of the game, but suddenly it's "punishable by giving free information to the killer with crows" and potentially a DC penalty (if they add it back) when survivors are hiding. Make this make sense, BHVR.
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You think that playing dirty in a game that's meant to be fun is completely alright? Maybe next time I play basketball, I'll intentionally foul my friends and try to get under their skin so they make mistakes. I'm sure they'll keep being my friends.
Really though, it's not alright for someone to ruin another player's experience just because they can. Forcing one player to be unable to play the game except to be eliminated, and making them not able to participate in the game in a meaningful way is definitely toxic. It's essentially the killer equivalent of what a bully squad is trying to do, except that bully squads tend to be weak. Meanwhile, tunneling out a survivor will typically also ruin the game for the rest of the survivors also.
Personally, I don't see matches where people tunnel or just run back to the hook all the time to be real games. They're just a waste of however much time it took the killer to win using cheap exploits. In that sense, those games are also like matches with bully squads: even when I 4k them, those games aren't fun; they're just a waste of my time since I'm dealing with people specifically trying to keep me from playing the game.
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That’s just something you can’t expect in online games once you play with other people: your own fun isn’t always the ultimate measure of what others enjoy. Different people enjoy different things — and especially in online PvP games, you’re always going to run into players who get their fun from different things than you do. If you don’t want that, you shouldn’t play online PvP games — just singleplayer or co-op with a select group of people you know share the same interests as you.
I also don’t get the whole problem with “bully squads.” Those people bring everything they’ve got. They’re trying with every tool available to give me a hard time. That’s not bullying — they’re playing the game. It’s not the fault of the players who go all out, but more the mindset of the players who feel “bullied” because of it. Most of these so-called “evil bully squads” even type GG WP in the after-match chat. Especially when they’re good players, not just some kids having their 5 minutes of fame.
And yeah, the game doesn’t offer a lot of ways to interact. Sometimes you get a t-bag after a pallet stun if someone wants your attention — maybe followed by a little wave. I don’t find that super toxic. A quick noddin back, break tis pallet, and the chase goes on.
And it's never about ruining someone else's fun. If I have someone in my scope in ashooter and the match just started… yup, I’ll take this shot. Even if that person ends up out of the game at the very beginning and now has to sit through a 30-minute loading screen while we play it out smart — it’s not about ruining their experience, it’s just part of what PvP games are.
And in DBD, you have sooo many — literally hundreds — of ways to cover someone and get them back into the game.
You simply can’t expect your own idea of fun to apply to the entire lobby.
And personally, I don’t enjoy matches where I’m just thinking, “Huh? What is the killer even doing? Free heal under the hook… okay? What’s their mission?” Don’t just hand stuff to me for free.
Like… what? You don’t want me now? I just completely misplayed — hello? I was just on hook, I already lost a hook state, I should be your target right now.
I don’t enjoy games where the killer doesn’t feel like a threat and I know we can make tons of mistakes and still get out easily.
Not evryone enjoys the same kind of match — and that’s okay.
I enjoy it way more when the killer actually feels like a killer — someone you have to respect and have to play smart against.
I like it when I know: “Alright… one or two mistakes and I’m out.” That’s what makes the match intense for me.
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Playing in a way that makes others miserable should not be encouraged.
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But that's kind of the point isn't it? For a huge fraction of players, being hard tunneled or having someone on their team get tunneled like that just isn't fun. Just because someone thinks they won't have fun if they don't do something that objectively ruins someone else's experience, and possibly the experience of four other people, that doesn't mean they should do it.
In any games played with other people for fun, the players absolutely should think of the experience of the people they play the game with. Imagine if DBD were somehow played like an in person game. Maybe we could only play it by showing up and sitting together like a tabletop game. I'd strongly suspect that people who are known to hard tunnel would struggle to get a lot of people to play the game with them. It would probably get house-ruled out of most matches.
More broadly, I think it's a serious problem of online games that there are people who don't bother to think of the experience of the people they play the game with. That mindset leads to a lack of accountability for a person's actions, which makes it easy for toxic communities to develop. That lack of accountability leads to degradation of the social interactions in and surrounding gaming. But social interactions are a fundamental part of games played with other people. I honestly think that people who don't want to consider the feelings and experience of the people who they share the game with shouldn't be playing multiplayer games :(
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To be fair, my friend, encouragement was given in the past, either through BBQ or through metas that were so strong that made tunneling and camping unnecessary.
But these things didn't stop these strategies.
2 -
To be fair, I get your point — and it's a solid one. I have to admit: you kind of grow numb to it after a while. Especially in those lobbies where you immediately dominate at the start and you know these players are going to go down fast.
But when you're used to regularly facing really strong teams, as a killer you simply don’t have the luxury or time to gauge how strong a group actually is. A quick first down doesn’t really say much about how the rest of the match will go, or how good that player really is. So you stick to your usual playstyle.
And then suddenly you’ve hit that point: “Oh. oppsi… that’s a win. And they’ve barely gotten a gen — maybe one at most.”
So what now? Let them go? Let them recover?The thing is, most players notice when you start going easy on them. And yeah, a lot of them just start farming at that point — and honestly… that doesn’t help anyone. If anything, it just cements the issue: players are ending up in lobbies they don’t belong in, and so am I.
And when you do “ease up” a bit, that group is going to die anyway. So you just make it quick and clean.
And often, even these kinds of players will still hit you with playstyles that killers really don’t like to see. (It’s not that you hate it as a killer, you just don’t want to let that kind of behavior slide, purely on principle.) — and that just reinforces it. So idk… , when someone’s being super dumb or just blatantly obnoxious, it’s really hard not to punish it.
I think you would hate me very, very, very much if you knew how I sometimes play, I guess.
Even when I’m playing strong killers, I still don’t cut any slack for obvious cheesy, dumb, greedy, or disrespectful plays.
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I feel like one of the things that maybe gets overlooked is also that dbd is a bit of a different game than it used to be. In previous years there was a lot more emphasis on hiding and seeking, but with the proliferation of detection tools for killers (auras, I'm looking at you), that's taken much more of a back seat. Not to mention on-hit sprint bursts were nerfed a couple years ago, amongst other things.
Is it dumb when someone can idle across a map and never be found? Absolutely, and I'm glad that's no longer a thing. But it's also kind of disingenuous to be defending tunnelling when eluding the killer is substantially more difficult now.
But tbh, in reality these things shouldn't be on the killer to moderate, it should be adjusted (and incentivised) so that it is facilitated by normal play.
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Back then, there was so much stuff… insta-brand new parts, the old insta-blinds, old insta-heals, OP tiles, infinites. Has it gotten easier for killers? From my point of view, no. Those extra 10 seconds per gen really add up. Survivors asked for that change, they got it, and killers adapted their playstyle.
DBD nowadays has a totally different pace than before. Both good and bad players have figured out: maximum efficiency wins the match. People push gens like there’s no tomorrow, even if they’re injured right next to the chase — “the killer can’t do anything anyway” — so they just switch targets. My teammate was injured in a chase but still worked on a gen. Killer shows up? Who cares. I’ll just stay on the gen, let him hit me if he wants, I’m gonna finish that gen right in front of him while he cleans his weapon. My mate even takes a hit for me, and we’re out. GG killer, nice try.
I played back then too. The biggest difference was: there was no MMR. The standard response to all killer problems back then was just “this is taking too long, chase someone else.” That only works for so long nowadays. Eventually, you get into an MMR range where it doesn’t matter who you chase — the next person will do the exact same thing to you as the last. Everyone can chase now. And a fresh chase has all the good perks ready, ones the first person may have already burned.
And people have gotten better too. Watch old videos, see how “good players” moved back then. Now, good players run pixel-perfect close walls, fast vaults over the hardest windows, tech to deny bloodlust, ez tutorial killer, now window blocker for u.. Killers have gotten a lot of buffs, but survivor players in 2025 have also gotten way, way, WAY better.
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Sure, but that's not to say that that tunnelling specifically has gotten harder. I think it's probably easier now, or maybe just more common. The game is about the chase, not the hide and seeking, and most killers will win any chase in the end - it's how they're designed.
Also I don't want to put too finer point on this, but the game is balanced to be killer sided by design (and more recent tweaks in the last couple years). So I can't imagine that a high level killer against high level survivors will be outplayed most of the time.
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It's not really about stopping the strategies completely. There are times where slugging is needed. Survivors should always have a threat of early elimination.
The problem with current DBD is there's not much reason to spread hooks. It's far better putting your early hooks on 1 or 2 people, because that results in someone dying early which is a big decrease in the power of the survivors.
This was always true of the game, but when BBQ gave bonus blood points, you did see more killers try to spread out hooks to ensure they got their stacks. With modern day QoL, I don't see bonus bloodpoints being enough to incentivize not tunneling out a survivor early anymore.
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You're not exactly at a bad spot as a killer against strong groups. But... guess what? That's because everything exists — including the stuff you personally don’t like. Like tunneling, slugging, and all that.
And .. idk.. I don’t care about all that tunnel talk anymore. That’s why I always say: I don’t care, and just go all in. Even when there are 5 gens left, as soon as the opportunity’s there. Because in so many, like so, so, so many cases, it’s actually the survivor team’s fault for tunneling and playing dirty.
And I’m so tired of the expectation that the killer should just be blind and nice and overlook everything
That’s why I’m oftelike: Give me that tunnel or slug at 5 gens, and I’ll take it
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umm, but .. , but as soon as you spread the first hooks over 2 people, I wouldn’t really call that tunneling anymore. If I tunnel, it means the first person I find is the target. And I stick to them no matter what. (Bodyblocks? Nice, good teamwork, I like. But nope. u are not the person i want.. I’ve got my target and now I’m committed.)
Hook happens? I back off. But not far. The area around the hook is my playground until the unhook happens — then I keep pressure without giving them a chance to heal up. And I do this until I get that -1.
Once you start spreading hooks over 2 people, I don’t see it as tunneling anymore.
So basically, when I tunnel, it means I’m fully committed to one person until they’re out. Anything else isn’t tunneling for me.
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Well, my friend, in my opinion the only incentives that could be given have already been given. BBQ and some of the old killer metas were good incentives, and if they couldn't prevent tunneling I am not sure what can.
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Points aren’t really an incentive not to tunnel anymore. Nobody even cares about points nowadays. Want to know what actually stops me from tunneling? Smart players. People who don’t just stay greedy right next to my face on a gen — giving me a free hit and then going down quickly in a hot zone, right near that gen. In an area where I know other teammates have also spawned. I just have to hold that area, control those gens, and proxy camp the hook at the same time.
If the first person in the chase doesn’t give me a nice free hit and drag me into some irrelevant zone where they just hang out, where I’m not really threatened… you know how unattractive tunneling becomes for me at that point?
One of many, many examples I could give.
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But that isn't something the game itself can change.
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nah. It’s on the survivors — not on what BHVR could “add.” Like I said here:
“Got tunneled? That’s on you.”
And I specifically mentioned the Nurse, because no matter how strong a killer is, it’s not the killer’s job to ignore everything.
In the Nurse match?
I wasn’t even hook-camping. I was patrolling gens. The team just decided to keep pushing gens all the way to the end — letting the hooked survivor hang on an open hook until he almost died.
Of course the killer’s gonna turn around and look at the hook at that point. The timer is getting close. There’s something hanging there that you clearly want — and now it’s gonna cost you. You’re the ones who went for gens first.
They had all the time in the world to go for a smarter unhook, but no — they waited for a desperate last-second play.In the Sadako match?
Ace bodyblocks in the very first chase. I was already thinking “careful man, you’re not in a SWF — don’t overdo it.”
But yup — people just don’t let you get a first hook, even on an M1 killer, even though that first hook is crucial to slow the game down a little.
So what happens? Ace just runs around me all game.I knew exactly where he was. So what should I do? Chase Yun-Yun and let her show me how “sexy” she can loop the main building?
Or go after the Ace, who clearly wants to give me a tour of the fun bus?At that point, I already knew:
- Ace wasn’t on a gen.
- Yun-Jin’s gen was already interrupted.
- Only Nancy was unaccounted for — maybe on a good gen somewhere.
And when Nancy just ran across my screen, I knew:
Three people off gens.
Maybe one high-progress gen somewhere.If I hadn’t had that one person from the entire team in front of me the whole time, Ace wouldn’t have been jumping around me constantly, and I would’ve been completely in the dark about gen progress and survivor positions. Do you really think tunneling would’ve even been appealing at that point?
Then Trevor gets unhooked and instead of running to main or fun bus, he runs into a dead zone with a super unsafe window.
And at that point — I’m not your teammate. I’m the killer. That’s just how it is.After the next unhook?
Ace basically fed him to me. Insta-unhook. Right in front of me.
Why should the killer ignore that? Sorry Trevor — Ace just sold you out and sealed your fate.Same thing in the Huntress match.
Orela really wanted to finish that gen in front of me.
Luckily my hatchet hit. Free hit. And because she didn’t leave early but instead got greedy and stayed for the gen, she ends up down right next to a gen she tried to force in front of me.Now I’m sitting there with this gens in that area under control. I left this hook a bit, controlling 2 gens in the area.
None of them were high-progress.I already knew I’d lose at least one other gen while Orela’s hook timer ticks down. And now that timer gets close again — guess what happens?
So what now? I’m supposed to just walk across the whole map at 110% movement speed, let her get a completely free unhook, and maybe even finish that high gen downstairs while I’m gone? Yeah… no.
Nah.
She could’ve just dragged me somewhere irrelevant, away from the gens.
But no — she chose to do the gen right in my face. Don’t act surprised if I take control of that area.And finally, the classic:
"Killer, why are you slugging?"
Leon was complaining — meanwhile, he was running Unbreakable and Insta-Heal.
He was just waiting for me to pick him up so he could use Tenacity, stun me with Power Struggle, pop the Insta-Heal, and get his free hatch escape.Tunneling is only a problem because so many groups basically ask for it.
If tunneling works, it’s not because the killer is unfair — it’s because the team made it easy.
Post edited by oecrophy on0 -
Tunnelling shouldn't be a meta strategy but it's currently how the game is designed, and I am trying to say that if that is meta then you shouldn't feel guilty for tunnelling.
I had a match as knight where I ran into the same survivor three times, all in weak positions. I could have secured the kill, but I hesitated. I dropped them mid-chase to avoid looking like I was tunneling and went after someone else.
At the end the four survivors escaped and teabagged at the gate. I lost because I tried to play “fair.”
I definitely could've played better but the match stuck with me since I realized the game currently rewards playing “dirty,” and punishes killers who hold back. Knight also isn't exactly meta too.
I think BHVR should try to experiment with the core gameplay of dbd to prevent boring gameplay loops like this.
There should be a reason a killer would go for a unique survivor instead of the one who just been hooked, it shouldn't be forced but it should be an active decision a killer makes. I know this already exists with perks like No way out, but having a basekit buff for not tunnelling, and maybe even having tunnelling be punished could work.
Or they could redesign how hooks work.
Tunnelling still works in gameplay in theory that survivors are incentivised to protect the one that is about to get hooked again with saves, or body blocks but that doesn't even work against some killers. I am not saying tunnelling should remain the main gameplay loop of this game.0 -
Just know that you are directly responsible for your long queue times.
Enjoy.1 -
What I would say is, the killer shouldn't have to ignore the most effective ways to win in order to have a fair - and fun - match that gives us all the gameplay we enjoy.
Tunnelling shouldn't be the go to option. It should still be there, of course, for survivors who want to mock the killers - after all it's still a horror game, but it shouldn't be the most effective use of the killer's time.
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"I could’ve secured a kill but I hesitated." — yeah, I dropped that mentality back in 2017.
As Killer, you’re alone. It’s a 1v4. You are your on team. An of course, the other side wants to win — and your fun is only allowed as long as it leads to a loss. That’s just how it is. You can play the entire match super nice, but if you go even slightly dirty in the endgame and still win? That’s already enough for people to lose their minds.
The game just isn’t built around “fair play” anymore once you’re up against good players and efficient teams. The pace has become insane — and every bit of pressure you give up as Killer costs you a lot. Against highly efficient teams, most killers can’t keep the full squad under consistent pressure if you try to play "nice." That only works as long as the survivor team gives you room to breathe. But I don’t rely on gifts — I go all in. You have to play dirty and clean.
And yup, like you said: you can’t always protect the tunneled survivor. That depends on so many things — the killer, their perks, the map, positioning. Sometimes you just have to let the tunnel happen and make the best out of the time while the tunneled one chase for their life to buy max time and value for the team.
I've also seen plenty of teams overcommit to covering and end up throwing the game because of it. But overall, good protection is insanely strong, and you can make tunneling very hard — if it’s done right. Personally though, I wouldn’t go in for a bodyblock or save during the first chase. Only once the tunnel actually starts. Because what really makes tunneling unattractive for a killer? When gens pop left and right during that first chase. That’s when they’ll start rethinking their whole strategy.
Yup, the moment I play Killer, I’m obviously personally responsible for you not having fun, for the long queue times, for the ugly Rift skins, for BHVR still not fixing the servers or hit validation, for Pig still not having unique boop-the-snoot sounds or animations in 2025 — and probably also for your broken matchmaking, your cold coffee, and your cat emotionally distancing herself from you because s he got scared during my last Blight rush while sitting next to you at your desk. I’ll try to be a better killer next time <3
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With most killers, forcing an early 3v1 is just the most effective thing you can do — just to get yourself even a tiny bit of breathing room. And is it always an ez win? Hell nah. Sometimes a single mistake, just one, is enough to cost you the whole match — even with the tunnel. So much for those “ez 4k with cheap strats” claims people love to throw around.
And that’s even when you find the weak link right at the start of the match (that Marigold really wasn’t good — basically an insta-down snack).
“Just defend your gens.”
Sure. Great advice. With 4 people laser-focused on their objective like it’s a tournament scrim.„Try to build up Condemn.“
Yeah, I’ll get right on that — right after losing 3 gens during the first chase. Solid strategy.Just don't make a single mistake."
Yeah okay — I knew the flashy was there, but I had to go for the pickup early. If I’d waited, she would've crawled to a pallet and I'd be stuck either way. That wasn’t gonna get me anywhere either.It was a gamble — and yip, it was damn expensive.
"u don’t need your 4K, nah. "
David: "Onryo noob"But I’m still gonna play for it anyway and try everythin I could.
"yup, but.. if the killer tunnels right at 5 gens, it's always a 100% ez win with zero skill and no counterplay for the survivors."
Yup, I know I still suck at this game — even after 10,000 hours. But nobody ever tells me how to actually play better.
I just suck at this game, I guess. But every time I play Killer, I see survivors making a million mistakes right in front of me — and somehow they still expect their little 'free pass' to get away with all of them while yelling 'KILLER OP' the moment you actually capitalize on one
Survivors are allowed to make tons of mistakes and still feel entitled to their win — rescued by the crutch parade of meta perks. Killers? Nope. One single mistake and you're expected to humbly accept your loss with honor and dignity.
-1 -
Definitely agreed that stupid plays should get punished. Someone unhooks right behind you? What do they think is going to happen?
I also come up against those teams that are 4-person strong looping, on-task survivors. You often have to decide how the chase seems like it will go before it even proceeds since committing too long can get two gens done at the end of the first chase. My perspective is that those matches just go how they're going to go. If I overcommitted, that's my mistake, so I just deal with it and take the likely 1k. That also has kept me from ever thinking there was any need to tunnel since MMR does do its job and keeps me from exclusively facing those teams. What's super nice about that is that it let me keep growing my skill all the time while still enjoying most of my matches.
Also, I agree that some playstyles that are annoying need to be considered by the players using those tactics on both sides. For some people, getting blinded at every pallet can be infuriating, and some people let teabagging get under their skin, which is usually what the survivor wants. I run Bond most of the time on survivor, and when I see my teammates doing those things, I don't really blame the killer for taking disproportionate action back. Something about bad manners leading to more bad manners :/
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I'm sorry, is this to me? My point was that tunnelling shouldn't be the most effective strategy and that the killer shouldn't have to ignore it in order for the game to seem fair.
In general I think the idea that tunnelling should be encouraged is just plain wrong because I think both the devs and the community are smart enough to introduce or rework gameplay features that could be more enjoyable for both sides to play.
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but.. actually like those tough matches. I sweat with everything I’ve got – and … yup, I often get the sweaty teams. (Though in this case they were still kinda chill. Not a full SWF, no Shoulder of Burden, and a really rough first chase from Marigold…) But that’s exactly why I count the match as an achievement. Despite the bad opening, fast downs, and no coordinated team – as killer, you just can’t keep up. ( I just know that with some killers, I need survivors to make mistakes )
But all in all.. I enjoy playing against good players.
I honestly don’t even mind blind-into-reblind. Sometimes they’re legit valuable seconds in chase. I like playing flashy on survivor too. When I switch sides, I don’t treat killers any differently. I know I tend to play more "aggressively" or “hard,” and I like getting countered or punished for it. And as survivor, I don’t give my teammates away for free. Sorry killer, but nope. I’ll quickswitch to my flashy in the last 6 seconds in lobby just to maybe deny the killer their Lightborn. It's all part of the game.
During the match, I wasn’t even mad at them. The only thing I thought was like:
"David… you can’t bodyblock me. That’s one good think on Sadako – I can just walk through you. Marigold’s mine. Go do a gen. You’re not stopping what’s happening here.” (And to be honest:, if he had done a gen instead of trying to cover his teammate, that match might’ve turned out differently. He wasted a lot of time.)The only thing I found unnecessary was the post-game chat. I was totally fine with everything else. The guy knows he’s favored against a regular M1 killer and felt himself a bit too much. But hey – we’ll see each other again. These lobbies are just a rotation of the same people most days.
Next time?Get ready for Nurse.
So you better try harder.
And enjoy your direct tunnel against nurse at 5 gens.But seriously – I don’t want to fall into some comfy low-MMR bubble where survivors just hand me free downs and I’m sitting there thinking, “What are this people even doing here?” (And …, it just feels bad to eliminate these lobbies easily and fast. There’s is 0 fun in steamrolling a team)
But still..
I always play for the win. There’s no other option. Settle for one kill"? Nah, that’s not really an option for me. I’m going for that 4k.
And yea, most of the time as killer: the first person I find is most of the time in for a rough time
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Yup… because tunneling is often the only real option you have. Survivors asked for faster gens — they got them. And killers adapted.
It’s such a tricky topic.
Just rework the gameloop? I think anything that could make the game "more fun" or "more fair" for both sides… would probably end up being not fun for the survivor community. We've already seen it:
Longer gen times? Boring.
Anti-gen perks? Also boring — and honestly, most of them are just bad design. They mostly stomp casual survivors, and against good players you barely feel their effect… unless you're playing a strong killer who gets fast downs even against strong survivors — but then again, those killers don’t even need anti-gen perks.3-gen strategies? That was super boring and frustrating.
What I’m seeing is this: almost anything you give to the killer side to make the game more fair, more interactive, or more "fun" in a healthier way — the survivor side just ends up hating it.
Or you just end up burning out the long-time players by giving survivors everything and nothing back to the killer side. Balance is clearly being made for casual lobbies. But if it keeps going like that, killer variety in high MMR will completely and permanently die out (Most people play in their “I don’t tunnel, don’t slug, go for 2 hooks, and still have good games” lobbies.)
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It's sad that your response is "we can't do anything to change the game, we will always have to do this".
That's just sad.
Considering how much dbd has changed over the last 9 years, it's sad to see a mindset of "nothing will ever change".
Genuinely just sad about that.
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I'm not saying there's nothing that can be done — just that I see very few things actually being accepted by the survivor community, especially when it's something that gives the killer role a different way to play. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just been my experience over the years. It feels like the survivor community is only ever satisfied when they get something, but the killer role gets nothing. Again, maybe I'm wrong.
Personally, I do see a lot of things that could be changed. But they’re things I genuinely don’t believe will ever happen. Take the anti-gen perks, for example — something I brought up cautiously. In casual lobbies, where you're playing against survivors who go down instantly even with weak killers, these perks hit way too hard. These are lobbies where people can't loop, have no sense for safe unhooks, bad unhook timing, etc. Lobbies where people just feed the killer hook after Scourge Hook, and then you throw Dead Man's Switch on top.
These perks feel like they’re literally designed to ruin the experience for casual lobbies. Against strong players? You barely notice them. Scourge Hooks? You need a down and a hook first — and good players don’t just hand that to you. They time things smart, they don’t feed you. Dead Man’s? They know you have it, and they just tap a random unimportant gen somewhere so the block goes on that one. Deadlock? Casuals hang around the blocked gen and emote a bit… efficient players move 20 meters to the next gen and keep up the pressure.
Corrupt? Casuals sometimes take forever just to find a gen. Good players, on the other hand, know exactly where the important gens are and run to them immediately.
Same with the RNG we have on some maps. Casuals will never notice how wild the RNG can be on maps like MacMillan. They just shift around, drop a pallet here and there, run in circles and pray.
They don’t squeeze the max value out of structures, so they don’t realize how unfair some tile spawns can be. Total dead zones for survivors are just as awful as some god spawns — and both can happen.
If RNG were made healthier and more consistent, it would be a huge improvement — and most casual players wouldn’t even notice the difference.
Same goes for stacking different perks that make the killer’s life insanely hard — especially when fresh hooks are even less appealing because you know the person you’re tunneling has already burned through all their second-chance stuff. Meanwhile, any new chase means you’re walking right into someone who still has all their perks ready to go.
There’s a lot I personally csee that can should be changed. But let’s be real: nothing’s probably going to happen.
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I actually think map balance is one of the most obvious answers that should go along with the proposed anti-tunnel updates. If there are genuinely survivor players who can't lose unless the killer tunnels, the obvious thing to adjust for that is tile design or map layout. Top tier survivors will feel the impact of a slightly shorter wall, or less chainable loops, but others will feel that less acutely since mid-MMR players are making mistakes more regularly and not looping perfectly anyway.
It's likely best done progressively, without the knowledge of the community though, so BHVR could do periodic updates to tweak sacrifice/escape rates until they hit the right equilibrium across all MMRs.
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And …
You’re not wrong. I think I will always have to do this.
I just don’t believe in it anymore. That’s why I’m in this “we’ll always have to play this way” mindset. I launch the game and do what I feel I have to do — even if a lot of players don’t like it.
i mean.. that’s exactly what I’ve been seeing lately: The game is shifting in a direction I personally don’t think is healthy.
Both roles have been made way, way easier. A lot of newer killers are super easy to play, and mistakes with their powers barely get punished. Same thing on survivor side: you don’t really have to perform anymore. There are so many ridiculously strong perks and gens fly so fast that you don’t even need to win chases or make smart decisions.
Early shift and laser focus on gens is the way to play in 2025. If you’re not playing efficiently, you can get multiple downs early — and yet the gens still fly, just because people understand: this is how you win now. Just brute-force the objective. No real chases, no real mindgames — and this happens on both sides.
The game just keeps getting easier, and easier, and because everything's getting easier, survivors basically feel hopeless and got the one tool that still gives a lot of teams any real chance of winning: gen speed. But not with me. As a killer, I know exactly what I have to do to make sure you don't get out.
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The big problem I see: so many loops are incredibly unsafe — survivors are stuck with tons of super-risky 50/50 pallets. A lot of structures make it way too easy to get people out of the game. But who cares, right? You snack on casuals there with no effort — while strong survivors juice the absolute max out of even the most unsafe 50/50 filler pallets. There’s always someone ready for a perfect bodyblock, and if it ever gets close, they’ll turn it into a “down in pallet” moment just to start the “now try to pick me, killer.. ez, come and try me” game.
And suddenly, what was the most garbage 50/50 pallet turns into a trap that wastes your time, while a teammate is already nearby with Background Player or the guy on the ground has Unbreakable ready.
Can you counter that? Yup — but only if you don’t let the team breathe from the very start. And the only way to do that is by applying direct, intense pressure — full-on tunneling. You don’t give them the space to set up their fun time.But the RNG we have? Sometimes it’s absolutely atrocious. MacMillan or Autoheaven can spawn ridiculously strong setups, while Haddonfield — already a bad map for survivors — can spawn entire dead zones like that street section, which is just a free kill area.
How is that healthy map design?0 -
…But it’s not just the maps. I’m just tired. Tired of so many changes. This. Game. Keeps. Getting. Easier. You remember back when instant flashlight saves were removed? After that, the timing window was so tight. You had to hit the exact right frame in the pickup animation — not too early, not too late. People would actually go into KYF to practice and master that timing. You had to be perfectly positioned and nail the moment in the animation as a survivor.
(right at the moment when the sound cue triggered.) + you need a good position
Back then BHVR was like: “Insta-blinds are broken, they need to go.”
Now? It’s like: “Let’s make flashy saves way easier again and throw in something like Background Player on top.”
nowdays:
yea, sorry Myeri and Haggedi, I know it’s not fun — but that’s DBD in 2025. The killer just isn’t supposed to be a threat anymore.
(I actually felt kinda bad for that poor Hag, tbh xD)
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and.. um.. this anti-tunnel update?
lets be real..
I don’t think the anti-tunnel changes will be anything too crazy or wild. Most likely just something like removing collision after unhook — which would make sense to shut down all those “I’ll just bodyblock with free BT” moments. Maybe they’ll add something like a free OTR or basekit DS on top.
But I doubt it’ll be anything major. I really think I’ll just keep tunneling right through it. At this point, most killers are already used to “working through” all the second-chance perks — DS, OTR, Babysitter, Shoulder, whatever.
So if they make some of that basekit? It probably won’t change much. People will just tunnel right through the new stuff too — because realistically, it’ll still be the most efficient thing you can do.
u know what would actually be nice for once? If you didn’t get punished the moment you decide not to tunnel. Like, I leave the hook, go for someone else — and heyoo, instant bodyblock into the new chase so they can protect the hooked one while still having DS active (because hey, “I wanna get value from my perk even if the killer doesn’t tunnel, otherwise why bring it, right?”)... and of course they’ve got Unbreakable or something in their back pocket too, just in case I catch on and decide to slug.
It's like… you try to play fair, and the whole kit is still waiting to punish you anyway.
You gotta deal with all that BS either way — so might as well go full throttle from the start and not play nice for nothing.
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I'm not sure how someone is getting punished for a perk (like DS or bodyblocking with OTR) getting used; the survivor spent a perk slot on it, so they're free to try to get some use out of it if they want. If someone is dumb enough to try to bodyblock just to use those perks, it's also not tunneling to go ahead and get them on a hook again… the survivor in question literally asked for it at that point. And if they brought UB along with DS and OTR, then they spent almost their entire build on it.
You're not wrong that a strong survivor team on comms that hits gens will really get gens popping if the first couple chases don't go well for the killer, but the opposite is also true: if at some point a survivor is eliminated with too many gens left, or the wrong gen configuration, or a survivor player makes the wrong mistake, the match is likely over for the entire survivor team. And there are survivor players so good that they run chases by taking the optimal path around every tile for any move a killer makes. But even they still make mistakes, find themselves in bad positions, or can get outplayed. The real issue is just whether matches are so heavily favored for one side such that something like tunneling would be warranted.
What you just said is that you're going to go ahead and tunnel regardless of what happens. I understand that you're skeptical that any changes will meaningfully improve the situation so that you don't feel the need to tunnel, but if BHVR tries to bring along balance adjustments that ensure the 60% sacrifice rate is maintained across MMRs, tunneling is essentially never needed. So as long as they are careful and don't release some giant, all-in-one end-tunneling patch, but instead also make necessary balance adjustments over time to maintain proper balance, no problem :)
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Sure, people can get full value out of their perks. Go for it. That’s part of good teamplay, fair enough. But I know my personal response to it: I see those perks anyway, so I might as well deal with them efficiently right away — with the first person I find in the match.
And I’m not playing to help BHVR hit their 60% sacrifice rate. (I’m usually hitting 80% + myself)
I don’t care about that. I go in to do my job as killer — and that’s killin’.
nd you're bringing up a good point: even the best survivors make mistakes. And it's those mistakes you need.
If a good team never feels the pressure of a hard tunnel and only gets fresh hooks, they not only have more breathing room to make mistakes — they actually make way fewer of them.
That whole “oh no, the big bad evil killer is tunneling” situation? That's often what pushes even good groups into giving you exactly the kind of openings you’re looking for.
Not the chill, no-pressure setup where they can just glue themselves to gens and reset comfortably.
Tunneling is often what cracks even solid groups where everyone knows how to run a chase.
(Sorry Sable cutie, you’re the first — now run, little one.)
Notice something? Nobody was there for that early pallet save. People know that the first chase is important. They’re glued to their gens in the meantime.
It’s not until the tunnel starts that the team actually starts feeling pressure. Now’s the moment when I start putting pressure on more than one person.
""or a survivor player makes the wrong mistake, the match is likely over for the entire survivor team"
Was that it? It was a really bad survivor-sided map plus all the strong event tools that are available right now. One major mistake decided that match — and it was underestimating me. "It’s just a Hag," right?
They didn’t want to accept that at a certain point in the match, they needed to just give me their Sable. This team just ended up dying early because they overcommitted the cover
And yipp, all the event stuff definitely helped me a ton too. (Gotta say, kinda sexy not having to break pallets myself.)
If they had just given me Sable at a certain point and full-pushed gens, that match would’ve played out very differently.
(And I even left the afterchat this time: see? hard tunneled at 5 gens, and the people weren’t even mad.)
They knew damn well they wouldn’t have let me set up any kind of trap zone or actually use my power with that killer anyway.
or that I wouldn’t have even had the slightest chance if I had gone for fresh hooks
or: with a longer first chase and a stronger survivor-sided map, things could’ve looked very different too
(Doesn’t mean they would've won because of it — depends how quickly I would've chased down the next person. (A halfway decent team isn’t gonna leave you a 3-gen to defend ), and the rest would've come down to the endgame (I still had NOED too)
But the Killer is the Killer — it’s not supposed to be easy to escape. And it’s my job as the Killer to make sure it isn’t.
he match is likely over
"But the match is over?"
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Oh, and I missed this in my last post (also forgot to quote you there)
What you just said is that you're going to go ahead and tunnel regardless of what happens.
Um… not no matter what happens, no — but for me to stop tunneling, more would have to happen than I expect is going to come.
(Or can you tell me how I could have won that Hag round without tunneling? (Without luck, without it being a dice roll, without “1-2 kills are enough — I'm here to get the full 4K, no luck, no settling for less.)
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What you just said is that you're going to go ahead and tunnel regardless of what happens.
another one of those matches today. Always bad players cry, want you to go easy.
But sure, anti-slug is what we need...
Anti-slug. Anti-tunnel. Better anti-camp. Anti-killer.
I'm just tired.
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