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In your opinion is ghoul boring to face

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Comments

  • Interocitor
    Interocitor Member Posts: 187

    Facts

    Myers matches are the ultimate snoozefests and the character model and animations look so bad compared to the other killers

  • LockerLurk
    LockerLurk Member Posts: 1,683

    The big to-do about Killers currently is that people are calling dash Killers "dash-slop" because they're that unfun to face. The honeymoon period is over now that we have tons of them; it was there when it was just Blight and maybe Wesker. Not anymore.

  • TheGoone
    TheGoone Member Posts: 571

    I just think there gonna go the Chucky route and just remove scamper and grab attacks and make him 110% and just become the "pure mobility killer but has no power in loops".

    Thats just my guess since Survs have a problem with every part of his kit

  • killer_hugs
    killer_hugs Member Posts: 189

    i don't think he's boring to face but he's stressful to face. the below average or average ghouls actually fine fine to play against. but man the really good ones really make me believe ghoul is S tier. the constant free hits, and free movement, and just a lot "free" mechanics where the killer doesn't really give anything back to the survivor i think is problematic.

  • PetTheDoggo
    PetTheDoggo Member Posts: 1,958

    Well, I wasn't asking you… and seems like your answer was simply not good enough, I bet something generic and vague, that's all what most ghoul players can offer.

    And fact you see that question often ask is also quite telling. It's almost as majority of killers have clear counterplay and people don't need to ask. Ghoul doesn't really have that.

    I will prefer to chase with Nurse over Ghoul any day. If you were actually good looper, you wouldn't have an issue with her…
    Unless she uses Predator, that's cheap way to play her

  • littlehoot
    littlehoot Member Posts: 153

    To be completely honest? There are many killers that I either dislike going against or find boring to go against vastly more than Ghoul. I honestly don't mind playing against him, before the balancing changes he was a bit much, but these days? I genuinely don't mind him as a killer.

  • kosaba11
    kosaba11 Member Posts: 312

    To be honest, I've never had a proper match against him. Either one of my teammates screw us over (or that one time I was really flubbing it for some reason) or the Kaneki is really toxic and going for slugs only. So, I guess in that regard, yes he's boring to play. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he brings out the worst behavior on both sides, which is never fun. I think if he had a little less mobility, he's be more fun to face, cause at the moment he has better mobility than even Blight due to how easy and how quick he can catch Survivors and how difficult it actually is to dodge him.

  • tes
    tes Member Posts: 1,214

    He was nerfed enough for not getting unfair second hit, and he is rare type of killer that encourage other playstile and not simple shift w. And he is not range killer, that will like… actually zone you without giving any chances.

    But he is hard to play against. U need to manage sources, don’t create dead zones. Don’t let him bodyblock. Him + dead zone just means instadown. Should be really careful on open space for same reason .


    The only problem when he gets hit where it would seem it shouldn't happen, that’s why I really dislike kaneki (same with springtrap, but that’s another story) From survivor's pov there is no clear tool to understand whether you will get hit or not, the ghoul's movements look pretty weird. I just don't understand whether he will hit or he just randomly miscalculated leap. I wasted my sprint many times because of this. Or dead hard, when thought he will make a leap for cutting distance and making a hit, but it turns out player decided to use his ability.

    He is low key fun to loop. U need to think how put yourself in position where he won’t zone you. Change loops in right moments, cause he shortens the distance pretty well. Yet in close distance he is basically m1 after you take a hit. TL walls against ghoul without bamboozle are kinda funny even. Indoor map completely counters him, so he is not overpowered. He's like a buffed legion, with more annoying scream and mobility to match today's meta. Definitely not nurse or blight level, just more annoying cause of less skill involve. I hope devs will make more clear to realise are u getting hit or not in future

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,132

    Blight would survive that better than ghoul, ghoul cant directly down you so they would need to buff his cancel from leap which is one of three things people hate him for (they would need to revert many changes/nerfs they gave him after release to make him compansate for 110 speed).

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,132

    Problem i have with set up/ trapping killers is their power isnt that well balanced. Look at is this way trappers traps should be strong, very strong but they arent and by setting them up you are loosing the game and wasting the precius time other dash killers use to get across the map and get chases,downs,hooks. His traps should be like hexes high risk high reward (meaning you can get nothing from them and just waist effort and your time or when they work they should hit hard not the way like now you can escape 12 meters away from trapper with just 3 seconds out of his trap and he gets nothing but points but not that much points annyway he would get by hooking) thats problem i have with set up killers their set up balance is weak and lacks preasure on survivors which is key element to get as many hooks and kills as possible.

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,132

    If you preffer chase with nurse (not counting baby nurse) over ghoul than you shouldnt be so iritated by ghoul he respects all paletts and windows 100 times more than nurse. Nurse is just killer who can bypass any loop in the game and creates her new looping strategy against her by faking your patch directions and hinding your self from her (when she doesnt where to blink on you she has to gues thats why aura read on her is just wall hack more than huntress or pyramidhead which can be easyly doged not to mention that 90% nurse players run addon that makes her range after second blink 30% bigger which makes huge difference).

    So you claim good looper like arun would have easier time against good nurse than against good ghoul, nurse if she is good like superalf can get you almost anywhere in the game no loop will be super safe, ghoul on the other hand must loop just like blight or wesker only difference between them is their power allow them some moves others doesnt have. Nurse isnt that super hard to play only way you can play her (exept one addon that makes you 115% after hit,meme addon) is just with her power, she is dependent on her power all the times and cant play without it.

  • PetTheDoggo
    PetTheDoggo Member Posts: 1,958
    edited July 23

    Well, there is big difference, if Nurse is stacking aura reading or not.

    If she doesn't have aura reading for chase, then I would definetly say she is much more fun to play against, simply because breaking LoS actually has meaning and you can doubleback. Fun thing is even completely useless structures are quite good against Nurse, mainly near border of map.

    You can't double back against Ghoul, because he can cancel during leap for some reason, remove that and I am fine with him. I don't mind his vault that much.
    My issue is how easy is for him to get right next to you with lower fatigue than Legion.

    Funny you mentioned Ayrun, because based what I can say from his videos, he really hate to play against Ghoul.

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,132

    You can doubleback against ghoul but its just harder without Los because most times ghoul can see you directly and has more range in his leaps ( enraged he has 3 leaps, two to ceret himself and his last doesnt slides) than nurse in her blinks plus he travels faster no charging. Usels structures are good for few reasons like los or some stones are hard to blink trough so nurse has to charge her blink more meaning its easier to mess up than blink through normal wall. Ghoul ,ust cancle his leap near survivor if he doesnt than its not that strong, his vault is more braindead thing on him in my opinion but not that op as people say if he doesnt triggers kidnap tech or survivor just doesnt panic than his enraged vault isnt that good on medium safe vaults just on the ones with long walls.

    Look I like more nurse if it isnt god nurse p100 player to go against more than spirit (spirit is hard to read and super frustrating to play against, nurse I can see and react to), but ghoul is just easy killer but on the higher end of players you can loop him longer than good blight,nurse and most ghoul players think they win just by playing him, every time if my team isnt the whiny babyes that would kill themselfs on the hook few patches ago and they just play normaly gens go faster than normaly because they dont want to spend more time playing against killer they dont like (same goes if I play him I get faster gens than on other killers even with meta slowdown build that should stop them, gens without that build would be in 5 minutes even with like 30 seconds chases) so they try more and most ghoul players think his vault works just like after release but you can loop him quite long time just like legion exept no prerun because of his blight like mobility and not that huge safety on stronger loops like shack or some god paletts because of his vault.

  • Rokku_Rorru
    Rokku_Rorru Member Posts: 2,796
    edited July 23

    Incredibly boring, screaming anime profile picture was not the call.

    Giving a killer hitscan for a free hit, insane mobility, scamper that injures you if you stay anywhere near the vault location, the ability to cancel his power after grabbing you for free hindered application, Slingshot tech, insane synergy with the likes of dissolution.

    The list could go on and on. I'm just so sick of hearing his terror radius and his screeching, whoever designed him needs to be forced to play against him again and again and again, against an experienced one until they learn to NEVER design something this crazy again. Like the survivor experience was not taken into account at all when designing this killer.

  • PetTheDoggo
    PetTheDoggo Member Posts: 1,958
    edited July 23

    Comparing Legion and Ghoul chase seems very funny to me. Ghoul is way better at everything except getting information.

    Whole act Ghoul is M1 killer simply doesn't work. He is way closer to Blight with his he works than Legion, Clown, Doctor etc.


    You can't double back against Ghoul unless he has reaction speed of potato. His cancel completely stops both dash and slide, which means he just needs to press button while next to a survivor….

    Ghoul ,ust cancle his leap near survivor if he doesnt than its not that strong

    But he can and that's the issue, remove it and I agree it's not that strong.

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,132

    He is just closer to blight but without enraged mode he is more to legion if we dont count the mobility, that m1 works more because on loops his cancel on leap isnt that useful and he cant infict direct damage like blight with his leaps (only injure you but he cant down you). His antiloop isnt that good on mediocre loops like clown,doctor but with his full basekit he has more to offer than the other two (his antiloop is enraged vault which is faster than weskers).

    I wouldnt remove cancel only make cooldown of it little bigger, remeber canceling his leap is only good with his slide his last leap doesnt hat that and its super bad to cancel.

  • PetTheDoggo
    PetTheDoggo Member Posts: 1,958
    edited July 23

    without enraged mode

    It's very easy to keep enraged mode on Ghoul… even without it way better chase than Legion

    if we dont count the mobility

    Nurse is worst killer in DBD, if we don't count blink…

    He has mobility, the best thing killer can have in DBD and his mobility is one of best. At no point he is even close to Legion.


    Ghoul's power is not that strong on short loops, but you can play around those even without power, so doesn't matter much.
    But Ghoul can counter even strongest loops in DBD, he can get free hit on god pallets and you can't hold W against him. That's simply not how you chase with M1 killers.

    Main weakness of M1 killers is hold W, so Ghoul simply doesn't match this.

    remeber canceling his leap is only good with his slide his last leap doesnt

    Even last leap he can cancel dash, no? So even there it matters.
    and on every leap before it, his cancel is huge deal and basically removes whole possible counterplay.

    I fine with his cancel after animation ends (dash+slide), but definetly not during it, that just makes him too easy imo.
    I also think it would be hilarious watch him zoom past me…

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,132

    Difference between nurse blink and ghoul leap is ghoul doesnt need to use his leap while looping and doing it only for vaults and trying to cut survivor off (its quite hard harder than nurse in my opinion anyway) on loops like shack. You cant nurse without blik because nurse can play without blink even with meme 115% addon.

    Free hits on god paletts is not true all depends what survivor will do if he drops the god palett and lets ghoul who is ready to vault with leap vault it and then get hit (many ghouls are running co de gra or what is it called twins perk which realy helps a lot) instead of waiting for him to cancel it or baiting him by running behind corner and then comink back to drop the palett is on survivor its missplay from his side, same if he tries to w ghoul and he catch him before he can run to the loop. Ghoul playes more with m1 than other stronger killers only difference is his mobility but tell me how many ghouls will down you in 100 cases what will be thing that will down you from them, I gues m1 but will you admit it or try to tell me his hit after vault downs you more when you go against ghoul than his m1.

    Dash can hit you directly only difference is he cancels and then hits you.

    He can zoom past you just use some los and if the tries to cut you of then double back, its not guarantee same as good nurse can blink with fully charged blink into ground to get you from doblebacking. Ghoul is easy and before any nerfs he needs all of his bug to be fixed for us to make some conclusions, he is bugged from his first nerfs and its very hard how strong he is because of thing like kidnap tech, loosing 1 token instead 2 when he breaks palett (means he can get to you with leap after 2,5 seconds while enraged with 3 leaps pretty sick isnt it) or his power canceling when he hits you withflick in the open or nothing blocking his path to get that hit for no reason (just bhvr moment like hitting someone with huntress/slinger directly and nothing happens normal bug in daylight), after all these bugs we will see where he realy is and the some changes can be made before this would be just nerfing that maybe doesnt have to be done or it can be not that hard (devs in nerfs go more for hard nerfs than just adjusting killers cooldowns only few killers got this like last chucky changes or pig and its just rewerting last nerfs or giving some part of addons basekit).

  • PetTheDoggo
    PetTheDoggo Member Posts: 1,958
    edited July 23

    100 cases what will be thing that will down you from them, I gues m1

    That's exactly the technically correct part, but reality doesn't reflect it.

    Sure, it's treated as M1 down, but Ghoul doesn't play as M1 killer.

    Spirit, old Nurse, or Deathslinger, their downs are technically M1, but same as Ghoul, they are not even close to chase as classic M1 killers.

    Free hits on god paletts is not true all depends what survivor will do if he drops the god palett and lets ghoul who is ready to vault with leap vault it and then get hit (many ghouls are running co de gra or what is it called twins perk which realy helps a lot) instead of waiting for him to cancel it

    I am currently trying to wait under the pallet. Basically learn his animation to drop before he can M1. Issue is his recovery and pulling his power is very fast, so he can just prepare his power again while I am in animation of dropping pallet.
    So even if I predicted he is going to pull his power, it simply doesn't matter on safe pallets, because he can just do it again and there is no way I can run around the whole loop. So my only chance is to get timing and vault back, which is not really easy to do.

  • LockerLurk
    LockerLurk Member Posts: 1,683

    And yet nobody is complaining about trap Killers. Funny that.

  • drag27
    drag27 Member Posts: 172

    He cant be boring to face, if anything he's exciting to face with being mobile and being able to hop around. Think you all want a killer thats weighted down and slower than your run speed

  • Rokku_Rorru
    Rokku_Rorru Member Posts: 2,796

    There are plenty fast killers which are funner to face than Ghoul. Wesker being one of them, the difference is Wesker is fun to face.

  • DeBecker
    DeBecker Member Posts: 934
  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,132

    To majority wesker is fun to face because he has more limitations than ghoul like when you dash on survivor who is vaulting window/palett and is on the same level of the object many killer powers with some dash ability would give you hit but wesker just doesnt nothing even his vault is very unrealible and super hard to do it fast with right timing or you wont get anything from your ability just slowdown yourself more that if you play as m1. Wesker is still solid killer but things like this are his limits and thats why isnt more powerfull plus nerf to infection (hinder from -8% to -4% and infection time has been icreesed Idk why they did both only one would be ok) for that he got charge colldown from 6 seconds for one bound to 5,5 not good trade off. When you grab someone and then fall even if it is one step like few inches from the ground then he will drop survivor and his cooldown isnt that fast to get that hit in many cases which is another huge limit to his power others like blight doesnt bother. Even with all his limits he is still solid killer after all, all this thuings only make him more frustrating than he should be ghoul is just easier and has less limits with his power (even now his power has many bugs that make him in some situations weaker but in more comon like breaking palett when enraged more powerfull than he should be). Wesker is fun if he isnt your killer in 4/10 matches than it can be little annoying if you arent ada main who looks for some weskin time.

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,132

    All Im saing is they should be stronger if they traps are like trappers same as idea as hex perks some counter but powerfull effects (but we all know what bhvr is doing with that now dont we).

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,132

    Its hard to read him he cant get out of power fast (time before he leaps) and vaulting right behind him is more hard and risky but if you pull it of he can go all the way back and try again.

    That m1 thing is he doesnt play as m1 all the time just he downs you with m1, only difference with your examples is deadslinger and spirit are both 110% which means they rely on their power more than 115 killers same with nurse she depends only on her blinks ske cant play without them (legendary m1 nurse from players who just started playing game nowdays thing of past with mmr, players who didnt know how to play her). Overall he plays more like blight only difference he must loop you more to get down because his power wont let him directly get him down on shorter distances especialy on loops like blights kit can thats why he is weaker even with easier injury with deepwound from like 14 meters or more idk if his hits for survivor are same distance as his for objects but I gues they are.

  • ArcT
    ArcT Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 209
    edited July 23

    Don't worry. They said today in the AMA that they believe the kidnap tech where he downs you with his power isn't a bug.

    So, you know, that's cool and something that apparently isn't going to be removed ever.

  • LockerLurk
    LockerLurk Member Posts: 1,683

    Jocelyn, to be clear - I think people have no issue with Ghoul's movement speed or mobility. I think the primary frustration with Ghoul is Kagune Mark as a QTE - it feels really, really bad to have all chase momentum killed for several long seconds when you get hit by it. It needs to feel more snappy and more fair, it's fine to have a Killer with a power that stops pallet drops or halts vaulting. But it's not fun or fair to have that event be an unskippable QTE that lasts several seconds, halts chase momentum dead, and the Survivor can't really have input on because seeing where and when to dodge it is hard due to the tiny reticule.

  • drag27
    drag27 Member Posts: 172
  • drag27
    drag27 Member Posts: 172

    I dont play survivor often but i have fun with all the fast killers, in chase its just me running around screaming while laughing even if I do get downed (which is 50/50)

  • Coordi
    Coordi Member, Administrator, Mod, Co-ordinator Posts: 2,173

    I respect the the position this puts users in, and I appreciate the feedback. Just to further clarify, we limit the discussion of personal negative behavior. "Players DC because" vs "I DC because" and "Lagswitching is a problem" as an overarching topic vs "I love lagswitching and its how I win". It's important that we don't ever advocate for these things, not that there is a complete moratorium on the topics.

    Negative and constructive feedback is welcome!

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,132

    Then he would be just legion with blights mobility but nothing (exept legendary kidnap tech one of most op techs in dbd and probably one of few things we can call by free hits with counterplay less than 5% chance) for him to get hits or punish shift+w if you give him longer cooldown, depends how much you would make his cooldown longer but if it would be close to legions than he would be bad now his cooldown is 2 solid seconds when he cancels mid leap (it may seems to be less but his slide plays big role without it he would be way much weaker and unfun) than 2,5 is when you leap on survivor with kagune mark or firs leap and 3 seconds is grab animation.