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What counts as "extreme slugging situations", for the upcoming anti-slug?
What counts as "extreme slugging situations", for the upcoming anti-slug?
If the killer is forced to slug a survivor for an extended period of time, because the only hook within range is currently broken by the Breakdown perk, would that count as an "extreme slugging situation"?
If the killer has multiple survivors slugged, but literally can't hook any of them, would that count as an "extreme slugging situation"?
Comments
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My best guess is that they will go by who has longest chase time and stuck in TR of the killer compared to other survivors that were never in the TR after the hook.
This is only most logical thing they can do easiest.
So like situation where users use power struggle, decisive strike for them to escape, or get help by others by stunning killer yet killer still goes for them would count as "extreme"
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I would presume "extreme" will be measured by length of time on the ground, how many survivors are currently on the ground, or maybe both.
No sense freaking out until we know more, though.
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Yea that too
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I would not be surprised if sabo/background player caught a nerf in extension to this, It wouldn’t surprise me at all. If I were the team I would absolutely keep an eye on that, if not account for it in the beginning. Helping out solo and removing unnecessary excessive slugging is very good, but buffing sabo probably not, so I would watch that.
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I would count as extreme simply if that's only thing killer does and never hooks.
But I have no idea how they want to focus on that without nerfing other forms of slugging.3 -
This seems like such an insanely impossible (and stupid) thing to define. I’ve had so many times where I’ve downed a survivor, noticed somebody nearby, chased them and decided to keep on going with the chase because I felt like it was the best way to apply the most slowdown pressure on the team. Once I finally down and hook the 2nd survivor, I go back to where I down the first survivor and they’re nowhere to be found because they crawled away the whole time I was chasing the other guy. The other two survivors for whatever reason decided not to pick them up, so am I going to get punished now for this “extreme slugging” situation? If you don’t want to be slugged forever, don’t crawl away so I can’t find you when I get back.
I know we shouldn’t draw conclusions without knowing exactly what this is going to be yet, but based on how big of a disaster the anti-go-next and anti-AFK systems have been, I’m fully expecting something insanely broken with the anti-slugging system as well. If there’s any lesson to learn, it’s to test and get feedback from actual players before implementing, but that often doesn’t happen.0 -
I’m going to crawl away if you down me and chase someone else, why would I stay where you left me if I know you’re trying to snowball and put the team in a near if not impossible position to recover from? The killer gets so much pressure from having two people hooked at the same time, it’s almost impossible to fumble as killer at that point.
Why would anyone stay there? It’s better to crawl away and recover. It’s almost always the best option unless you got being a slug perks for that exact situation.
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I would guess length of time slugged and number of survivors slugged. Something like after 90 seconds of being slugged you can pick yourself up.
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You can make it possible for Survivors to recover fully from the Dying State if at least 3 Survivors are in the Dying State. I think slugging one person can happen and is fine and regular gameplay. Two can happen as well, if they make a mistake (e.g. unhooking against a Bubba) or the Killer is running Infectious Fright.
But once you reach 3 Survivors in the Dying state, we are at the point beyond the Killer slugging for a bit of pressure or to avoid a Flashlight Save.
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My guess is it will work like a reversal of anti-camp where a meter fills while the killer is far away and if the meter is full a survivor can get up.
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I completely agree and I do the same thing if I get slugged. I’m just saying that people shouldn’t complain about being slugged if they’re also going to intentionally make it more difficult for the killer to find and hook them.
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If that’s the case then that’s a huge buff for survivors in general because now if someone gets slugged there is no reason for the other survivors to leave gens to pick them up.
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As someone who plays both sides, this seems reasonable to me. Anything more than this and killer side would need to be adjusted to compensate for the fact that survivors would never need to leave gens to pick up slugged teammates.
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The thing here though is that a change like this would gut the iri flesh bubba full team snowball which would be incredibly unfortunate.
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My guess would be killer hasn't chased someone for 30+ seconds.
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I have a feeling we aren't going to know until it comes in a PTB form (whenever that is), but possibilities
1: Time slugged
2: Amount of survivors slugged
3: Amount of times slugged
4: Killer camping the slug (basically like AFC)
5: Time up before being slugged again
6: Some combination of the above.
Then there is the issue of what they do about it, which also has a wide number of possibilities.
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Why would they intentionally wait there for you if not to just die and get it over with? If you leave them down long enough to scoot away that’s on you imo. That’s your risk for not committing to hook someone, and taking an extra chase for an additional down.
I’m not going to pretend like it’s riveting gameplay though being a slug without perks and not intentionally feeding the killer is slinking away and hoping someone picks you up if they can. Does it always pan out? No, but it beats just patiently waiting there on the ground while the killer gets back to you on their time so you can add to that pressure.
During the 4 minute bleed out I can make a microwave meal and come back while actively playing a PvP game. Think about it. I can do a real life side quest while playing a player versus player game where there’s no pause button in the match. People might not like to hear that, but it is what it is.2 -
So, are we getting free Deerstalker so noone is left unintentionally on the floor? No need to answer, I already know we are not.
More secondary chances, just what we needed, because "Fun=Win" even if you did nothing for the win. No, the survivor role is not going to become magically fun by achieving a undeserved comeback from an already lost game.
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This exact premise has been my suggestion for anti-slugging. In my proposal, when the killer leaves a certain radius of the downed sector, their recovery bar speeds up faster and faster the further away the killer gets. It doesn’t grant a base-kit unbeatable, but it makes recovery time much quicker if the killer is trying to mass slug by going across the map.
We will see what the changes have in store.
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It would depend on the timer. Having someone on the floor for 90 seconds is a long time and definitely is worth coming for the pickup. If it were only 60 seconds it might be better to leave them. All this is even assuming it will be on a timer.
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So you would make snowballing impossible.
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yeah that's an optimal play, just like slugging is an optimal play here.
the issue is that we somehow call this scenario "excessive" slugging when it's caused by the survivor choosing to crawl away to deny the hook in case of tactical slugging.
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Almost guaranteed it's going to be the 3-gen version of slugging, which is sad if true. It's still entirely too easy to down everyone at the start of the trial and trigger a surrender.
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Personally I'd define extreme slugging to mean "downs without hooking… ever" or "leaving people to bleed for several minutes without hooking… ever." Nothing else is an "extreme slug" IMHO - not "slug for 4k", not leaving someone down to get pressure if other Survs can feasibly heal them, not even the Survivor being downed and purposefully crawling to hide in the bushes or a corner.
It's soley only slugging for no tactical purpose and to only be toxic. And that is EXACTLY the kind of slugging we need to address.
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That would be a bad change as it would actually promote camping slugs. The Killer shouldn't be punished for being midchase if a Survivor is down, the Survivor teammates should know "hey my teammate is down and the Killer's in chase. Time to pick my friend up!"
If they're gonna do this, it should only punish it if the Killer refuses to get into a chase or sits OVER the slug and W-S keys over them. THAT is toxic. I say the system should really just punish camping your slugs.
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Oh I'd wager a bet that after this change comes live, they'll remove sabotaging from toolboxes entirely, then take Saboteur out back and shoot it dead or completely rework it at least. There will be no need to deny hooks this way if the Killer is forced to hook anyway or they're punished, after all.
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The start of the trial is when all the resources are still available. If you can down all 4 ppl at the start, they massively missplayed.
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No. But nobody needs to snowball to this point, lol.
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Friend I agree this is mostly an MMR mismatch issue, but some Killers snowball better than others and some of those Killers may purposefully try to cause this to happen at the start. It's not always the Survivors misplaying.
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That’s totally fine if you disagree. I personally think increasing the recovery rate on the ground can be very useful. Certain perks do this already, and in my experience can eventually lead to a pick up happening quicker because your teammates are less likely to come grab you if your recovery is extremely low. I personally worry about a base-kit UB being way too risky/strong, as they had already tried it before and it didn’t work out too well. In any case, looking forward to whatever changes we will see. Effort is always appreciated.
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And why it's even a problem? If you all are 4 man down, it's your own fault. Seriously it brings us to situation we had 3-4 years ago. Doesn't matter how bad survivors are, killer is always guilty.
Do we need to start recording from survivor side how games go? Just pick kindred and get popcorn. Survivors I get in my soloQ in general are barely better than bots. But then they are so full of themselves because killer killed them ignoring "survivors rulebook"
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But does that make it acceptable?
Essentially this (also sorry you got banned).
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Id assume extreme slugging would be slugged on the ground for 60+ seconds or 3 or more survivors have been slugged.
Anything else would be too unbalanced
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We know the devs were gonna test Unbreakable and Tenacity in the cancelled chaos shuffle watch them just push that to live
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All survivors down or on hook. All the rest could be strategy so should be allowed. I don't like being down but it's just a few minutes ... So chill
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Well, it's kinda regular to happen with Oni… (I am Oni main, so I worry a lot about this feature)
Getting only two downs per use of my power is usually just not good enough and thing is survivors would have an option to simply leave those two on ground, let me down the third so first two can pick themself up.
Also with something like this I definetly have an issue with Plot Twist.-3 -
I hope whatever they’re cooking sabo is dealt with in equal measure in foresight, because I can absolutely see a QoL turning into a weaponized advantage for 4stacks where they’re trying to force it.
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I hope slugging for the 4K counts to that and when you slug people for a very long time.
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You said it was too easy to down everyone at the start. I was just pointing out thats essentially the part of the game it would be the HARDEST.
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I don't understand. The hardest to pull off or the hardest to balance?
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The beginning of the match is when survivors are at their strongest. It would generally mean getting 4 ppl down during this time is the hardest to pull off as compared to literally any other time during the trial when pallets have been used up. Generally when this happens, its because people get caught trying for pallet saves and such instead of being spread out on gens. Had a game like this just last night… a team of 4 Aces essentially threw the match trying for a pallet save while injured.
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Regardless of how the game is played, that's extremely early for a steamroll to happen. It's not a rare thing either, which is concerning since it is when Survivors are strongest like you said. I'm not necessarily saying there should be infinite covers for bad plays, but there really should be something that prevents that scenario from happening as frequently or as easily as it does.
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I imagine its something similliar to 2v8's anti slug, which only really gets used if left on the floor indefinately anyways, and the killer can follow it up to maintain pressure. So in short, probably an answer to long term slugging and not short term.
Which I think is perfectly reasonable.-1 -
What really SHOULD you do about players who are willingly making these risky plays though? The best case scenario if your trying for a pallet save is the killer is denied a hook, while the worst case is the killer has 2 ppl down. If you take away the inherent risk, there's no reason for ppl NOT to constantly make these plays. Ppl hate when the game ends at 5 gens, but are completely OK with trying to deny the very first hook.
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That's a really good suggestion. I agree with that idea.
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Do… do you not know what snowballing is?
It's when you clutch a game that you were otherwise going to lose by slugging all four survivors at the same time. It's a last ditch attempt to saving a game when gens have been flying all match, but they left themselves injured and out of position.
There's no such thing as a "kind of" snowball. You either get the snowball and win the game, or you don't, they reset, and you lose.
If you take away the ability to snowball, the killer might as well just walk themselves into a corner and surf their phone if they ever have a bad chase or make a bad read. It'll be impossible to come back, so there's really no point in trying. Finish your gens and leave.
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So what comeback mechanic should we put in place when killers struggle early?
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So snowballing for the win would be impossible. Do you realize how many mistakes in a row survivors have to make to get slugged? And you would make them suffer no consequences for a series of bad mistakes, while removing the only avenue left to killers after they make a mistake. The last survivor will be able to get one of the other survivors up for free, and they will be able to use their free endurance to get the others up, and next thing you know it's a full reset. It's just unnecessary hand-holding. If you're getting 4 slugged, you deserve to lose.
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the main problem is all the buffs to survivor side this past year has been mostly because of slugging and tunneling. If they do implement this gen and hook times need to be reverted. You want to bring a killer back to chase mode instead of slugging you just need to balance it all the way out as well.
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That’s not snowballing. That’s just mass slugging or would fall under “slugging for the 4k”
Snowballing is having multiple survivors hooked at the same time to the point that you can bounce between hooks and keep the hooks flowing, but you’re leaving at least 1 person up to get saves so you can get more hooks. Slugging 2-3 survivors can lead to snowballing but is not snowballing. There’s lots of ways to start a snowball though without even slugging. That’s not a requirement to snowball or be classified as snowballing.
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