http://dbd.game/killswitch
Fog vials completely kill the engagement and pacing of trials
I mentioned this during the last event that fog vials were part of. The fog vials lead to terrible gameplay. They grind the game to a halt. Players are completely avoiding engagement. The game evolved beyond a hide and seek simulator for a reason. This isn't fun.
I personally don't want to sit there and look for players in fog at the start of every chase. More pointedly, I'm not going to do that. I'm just not. Even if you cap these at 2 charges, that's still too many. It's a bad mechanic that leads to boring, slow gameplay.
They also remove a skill component from the survivor side. Why learn positioning when you can spam a smoke bomb? All around not a fan.
Comments
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I've had zero trouble maintaining chase in fog nor have they really helped me as a survivor. But I'm dropping them cause I think they're hella funny.
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Not hard to track people and chase in the fog.. but the moment I play Spirit or Huntress, I start running into way more issues from the killer side. I’m not sure if it’s good design when an item isn’t strong on its own, but shuts down certain killer abilities. Like, that doesn’t feel healthy.
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They are fun in total, but many people pretending to be able to spam with them is fine.
Yesterday I found only one survivor, who made a specific build around fog vial and he was literally uncatchable. Lighfooted, iron will, lightweight, quick and quiet. And yeah, that was first time I wasn't able to track survivor.
The new mechanic is fine. But u shouldn't be able to spam it every minute. And yes, it’s indeed kills any engagement and encourage avoiding chases. Just a weird move, especially after they changed afk crow system and claimed themselves that game now is more about chases than hide and seek. But if people like it, that's a reason to save this mechanic and only adjust it
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Yes I agree with this post. For this being spammable is just boring. Im just hating starting a chase and just hit with fog. If it was a one time use I'd love that because it adds skill with when to use the Fog Vials. Tbh I've been avoiding Online because of this item alone because I feel like the survivors don't want to engage with me.
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While I like the hide and seek gameplay, the unlimited use is excessive. There is a reason no item in DBD has unlimited use.
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The problem is the cooldown. The effect itself is fine, but it either needs a limited number of uses or the cooldown needs to be significantly longer. They're too spammable.
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The main issue I see is the unlimited uses. The cooldown would be fine if the vials only contained a limited amount of uses, but they end up popping up several times a game, which is excessive.
I'm completely fine with them as an item, and it adds more variety to games. Plus, as a killer, it's only gotten me a couple of times, albeit those occasions have been when survivors use it correctly (dumping it in front of the killer's face is just a waste).
Either limit the uses, or add extra steps before reuse, such as find a fountain to retrieve fog from after 60 seconds of cooldown.
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- But are you really having so much trouble tracking survivors with fog vials? How do you manage to play against Dredge?
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Honestly, If you're having trouble locating survivors in the fog, it's a tracking issue on your part, since the effect is so harmless unless the visceral add-on is used.
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When every survivor in the trial has one and drops them when you're 20m away? You'll spend minutes simply trying to get in a chase with someone. They're terrible to play against when optimized.
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Now that you've mentioned it, what happens when you use a Fog vial during Dredge's Nightfall?
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I don't play much anymore but I've seen a video where that fog thing was used. I thought it was some event.
I've looked around to learn about it and it looks extremely annoying.
I don't know when I'll go back in the game (not for a while) but one thing is certain:
If I see a survivor use that stuff, I'll make a point tunneling it out (something I only do against competitive teams)
Basic positive punishment is a thing.
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um… exactly. The problem isn’t finding people and keeping them tracked in a close-range chase.
but…
BUT: the game is already shifting into this early callout, early leave -the-gen and run, early W-shift meta — and Fog on top of that just makes the whole thing feel even less interactive between both sides.
And… um? not gonna lie — it feels like bad design when entire killer powers get shut down in very specific scenarios, just because of early W and Fog stacking.
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I think it's the opposite. Survivor engagement has been taken away over the years. The Devs have figured out how to liven it up.
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Okay, I'm noticing a very weird trend here. I've seen polar opposite experiences as killer with the vials. This might be me at low mmr, fighting bad or newb survivors, but I'm having little to know trouble with Fog viles, having like 2 times that I've lost a survivor in it. Meanwhile, there's other people saying it's hard to track, and I'm wondering if it's a version issue.
Like, if one persons on PC with a high graphics car and monitor can see really well, but another person is having a lot of trouble seeing through the fog on a lower end computer, or even vice versa. I'm going to record some gameplay share a screen shot or two of how the fog looks for me. If others could do the same without revealing private info, that'd be good data. BRB.
Okay I'm back.
Here's my computer, which I think is decent, and what I'm seeing on it.
I can typically follow the scratch marks really well through the fog vials. I haven't lost a lot of survivors in the fog, but I've been playing mostly Dracula as of late so don't take that as being a solid indicator that they are easy to counter.
Post edited by TheSingleQuentinMain on4 -
Its not the fog vial itself thats the problem, its the iri addon, bc its just does too much, and it has inf uses.
and as others said already combine it w any exhaustion perk and pre running and the killer can do nothing abt it, cant even enter a chase
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okay ty. That clarifies a lot.
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You would tunnel someone for using an item wth.
Hide and seek went away because looping was more effective. It was actually viable again for a while until Distortion was killed. Personally I always liked it as a survivor. The tension of hiding around a corner not knowing if the killer will spot you. I've missed that alot tbh.
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Still early to say so far my games they been at most little annoyance. Few times I have lost track of survivor but if I never would then they would super bad. Just now seems they can be used too many times so that only thing needing nerf.
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Are there 4 killers per 1 survivor?
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Play a survivor
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Yes, because they could have run any combination of builds to diversify their chances, but they put all their eggs in one basket. Are you ok with survivors being able to cover each other with fog vials and chaining multiple in a single chase vs someone who has accessibility issues with tracking?
And believe it or not, there used to be survivor perks that completely removed killer powers. You used to be able to sabo Trapper traps, and it was removed because that was an absolutely stupid idea, especially since only 1 of 4 needed to bring it, and if more did, they just erased his power even faster and more efficiently.
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What should I do? I just adapt to the situation. The game is getting more boring, that’s just how it is.As killer, I keep my pressure up— if it becomes to wild, and boring, i just try to end this match fast and get my pressure from somewhere else and if that means proxy and straight tunnel off hook. As survivor, that usually means: no interaction, no greedy or risky plays, just clean chases… and just rush gens and out
Everyone can play how they like and run whatever builds and stuff they want…
I mean..
That’s just how it is – every match you’ll run into things you might not like.You’re on the map with four other people .. and you verse all the time stuff you don´t like – that kind of stuff is just normal.
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Cool and the killer put all their eggs in one basket by not picking perks to deal with fog vials and picking a killer whose weak against them. Problem solved.What perks? Whispers? Bloodhound? Those are the two I came up with and have yet to hear more. Maybe Stridor? The effects of the vials block almost every single tool that would be used to compensate for the issues they create. Not only that, this is about something that introduces multiple accessibility issues centered around core mechanics that are already biased against people with disabilities, with an impact ranging anywhere from
"barely an inconvenience"to"I would have a better idea of whats happening with my eyes shut and my headphones off."Imagine if there was a new killer who hit you with a poison that inverted your controls. Sounds absolutely horrible, right? Some players would be able to adapt to that without skipping a beat. Hell, people already know to run backwards toward hag traps to make her extremely unlikely to land a teleport hit. But lets say a bad idea like that gets pushed out anyway. This would introduce an accessibility nightmare, as it relies on a particular ability to compensate for perspective disorientation, something your average person needs to recalibrate to before even attempting to "translate" their inputs. For many, the game would become unplayable. And that would be just one killer, not a potential for up to 4 opponents.
Thats why the fog vials are such an issue. You back yourself into a corner with design like that, it either has to be so weak that it doesn't ruin the experience for affected players, or it has to be so strong that its oppressive even against people who are less susceptible, and absolutely butcher affected players. THIS IS A COMPOUNDING ISSUE DUE TO MULTIPLE PURPOSEFUL DECISIONS ABOUT TRACKING, ESPECIALLY REGARDING CHASE MUSIC AND VOLUME NORMALIZATION. You know, assuming there aren't any major bugs currently affecting tracking elements at the time, and there always tends to be at least one.
If you've been playing as long as you say you have, you've definitely seen a lot more loaded hypocrisy than what you're perceiving on this issue.
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There are no perks that can deal with fog vials; the iri addon makes them block vision, auras, scratch marks and surv noises. There is no perk that overrides this. Your comment is useless and shows your lack of knowledge about the game.
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Okay then don't play a game about tracking audio and visual stuff if you have a disability.Ah, ok, don't need to engage any further.
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Wdym? I really don’t have an issue with it. Everyone can bring whatever they want—perks, add-ons, items—it’s all part of the game. I never said otherwise.
Also, I never claimed I feel completely countered by it. It’s just that in some situations, it messes a bit with how I personally like to play—like lining up satisfying Huntress longshots, or how Fog Vials can throw off Spirit’s power. That’s it.
Not even complaining here, just pointing out that IMO it’s not the best design when something that’s not strong by itself ends up hard-countering specific powers in specific cases.
That said—if I see four Fog Vials while queuing Spirit, I still hit ready. I just adjust how I play.Fog doesn’t affect close-range chases much, so it's not really a threat there. If needed, securing an early tunnel to establish pressure is just a logical adjustment.
If I can already tell the match is gonna be boring, I just try to end it fast. Play it efficient and move on.
Also eh… you probably misunderstood me. I never complained.
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You still have yet to mention a single perk besides Franklins, which was specifically gutted in this very patch because they were too lazy to figure out how to make it work with their new changes to charges for keys, maps…. and fog vials.
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Oops, messed up the quote. The last post was meant for you.
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Saw it was a misquote, no worries.
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And how does undetectable make the game any more clear? Visually or auditorally? What tracking aspects does it help the player to compensate for? If you're trying to condescendingly say that stealth killers are an "answer" because they have a better chance of catching survivors off guard, that doesn't even remotely address the actual accessibility issue. The "argument" I have been making consistently.
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Ah yes, so I'm only unable to utilize any core tracking mechanics for 8-12 seconds at a time, roughly every 60-70 seconds.
Per survivor that brings the item.
Cyclically throughout the entire match.
But hey, at least i wasted multiple perk slots on perks that only work when there isn't at least 1 survivor nearby with a charge ready
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pick killers which can deal with it.
why have all these killers in the game I mean really now people need to use they head.
-1 -
no they didn't they give up on you on this topic which most normal person would.
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you may have been playing this game for a long time but I'm 100% sure you never played killer in your life.
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I mean it affects my ability as survivor to track the killer, so maybe its not about me "disliking survivors playing stealthy" or "only wanting chase?" Its just as obnoxious when I lose massive distance vs a turbospeed clown because I had to be much closer to react to his red glow? Then again you descended into an absurd strawman so I'm talking more to people who might make more sensible versions of your arguments.
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that's my main too but so far map offering are the only thing I agree you with.
also with fog vials is not if one person has it but when 3 all 4 have it and it rechargeable is the problem,one match every chase someone dropped one they should be a limit use on them.
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true.
and.. I also feel like Fog Vials just make the gap between console and PC players even worse. On PC you’ve got better visuals, sharper input, clearer audio—stuff like that hits way harder with an item like this. typicial Console players just get screwed more often,. i mean, the item is now ingame, we have to deal with it anyways. but y. idk.
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yea people been dropping in my survivor games which ends up mess me up and getting down.
I mean fog vials are like a double edged sword meaning for both sides.
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well I'm pretty sure ghoul, blight, clown, and nurse are he killers not bother by the fog vials but who wants to see more of them?
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My only problem with fog vials are the fact they have a cooldown and are infinitely reusable AND are items you can bring in. When I heard the fog crystal was making it into the main game, I had the mental image of
A: An item that survivors can get from some interaction with something on the map or as a game mechanic like in the void event.
B: Tied to a perk that requires some interaction to "earn" like flashbangs.
C: Item survivors can bring in that is only used once like firecrackers.
I wasn't expecting it to be an item that's reusable.
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The heartbeat option prevents fog from obscuring silhouettes and the red stain?
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Yeah I'd be fine with them having limited charges, if maps and keys have to have limited charges I don't see why it can't be the same for fog vials. Consistency seems to be another issue too, some maps they're relatively weak while others straight up blind you but I think it's dependant on the lighting. Killer interactions are wonky as hell too, Myers and Ghostie can't stalk through the fog, Singularity can't tag people even if the pod itself is in the fog and they're straight up useless against Dredge since he can see through the night shroud anyway. They definitely need a lot of tweaking going forward but I do like them.
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So does flashbang, yet we see survivors running them pretty often. The main thing that bothers me is just the fact the item is infinitely reusable. It's a pretty strong effect, too, considering how disorienting it is. If it had limited charges like the map or key, I'd feel it would be more balanced. If you have a 4-man with fog vials it can get pretty nasty if they coordinate and stagger activations to maximize the effectiveness and cooldowns.
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Based on some of the language used in this thread, I'm getting the impression that when a killer player says 'interaction' they really mean 'chase I win'. The problem some seem to have with Fog Vials is that it lets survivors win a chase and get away. This is kind of the whole point of the item - why would anyone bring it otherwise? Would killers rather survivors just try their best to hide rather than get in chases with them in the first place? That feel more interactive to anyone?
I have honestly found more people in chase BECAUSE of them popping fog vials. They mostly either think they can just shift+w like I don't see them when i'm a couple meters away, max or they don't think I'm going to check the obvious locker because I didn't hear the usual sound. The only time someone has lost me is when they've already broken LOS and we're in an area where they could have potentially gone enough directions that I can't check them all before scratch marks exiting the cloud would have dimmed to nothing - the Slaughterhouse structure as one example I remember.
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(no interaction) meaning fog vials stops chase before the chase can real start
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I’ve got zero issues tracking people in chase through the fog —once the chase starts, you rarely lose anyone anyway. But early Shift-W is already meta, and when I’m playing something like Huntress and see someone badly positioned, running super early w-shift straight through the open with awful pathing—basically a free hit—and they get away just because of Fog Vials? Yea, no thanks. I’m not playing into that “I played bad but my item bailed me out” nonsense. I just switch up my playstyle.
And with Spirit, chasing someone with M1 while my power’s ready just because Fog blocks audio and scratch marks? That’s not fun or interactive. I don’t think Fog is overpowered, and um.. yup, there are stronger items—but it’s still poor design when some killers are affected way more than others.
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Stealth & deception were a staple of this game from the start. Just b/c they nerfed Distortion into the dirt does not mean the game 'evolved' and stealth should stay dead. A LOT of people like the stealth. It adds an avenue of fun versus bringing the same ol medkit, toolkit, or flashlight that we otherwise would have brought.
Its like the old fog that used to be default in every map, it added to the atmosphere and now its just gone. Even though no one asked for it to be taken away and most people want it to be brought back.
A lot of killers are just not fans of seeking out survivors & they disguise their opinions about perks/items as legitimate reasons when they aren't. At least you're being honest & I can respect that.
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For me, it’s not even about the tracking part—I just really dislike seeing someone with terrible movement get away purely because of an item. That’s the kind of play I just can’t really respect. Sure, I could find them again if I commit to it, and I don’t think stealth is even that viable on small, bright maps. It’s not like I’d get totally lost.
But at that point, it’s just not the most efficient playstyle anymore, so I usually just go for what is efficient—because chances are, if I’m already seeing stuff like that, I’m not going to get good movement or interesting chases in that match anyway.
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