http://dbd.game/killswitch
Survivor Items
So let's be honest here, with the nerfing of fog vials this week, along with the botched rework of maps and keys somehow making them more useless than they were before, we once again come back around to the question of: Is there any point to bringing any survivor items that aren't flashlights, toolboxes or medkits?
I'll be honest, I wasn't much of a map or key user before the rework, but I did make a point of collecting Rainbow Maps and the purple quality keys and did use them occasionally. I was really excited about the potential for fog vials given how I'd seen some of my teammates using them during the brief period before they were nerfed into oblivion.
Now, to be completely honest, I'd rather maps, keys, fog vials and all their add on's be removed from the bloodweb because it's just clutter. None of them are useful anymore, except on the off chance you bring a key and need it for hatch. The fog vials could have been, but now with their impending charge system plus their opacity basically becoming 'mildly tinted' at best, they've quickly been regulated to bloodweb clutter I'd rather not waste my BP on. As for the map rework, they seem to have removed a bunch of base functions and turned them into add on's, and instead offered a bootleg version of Windows of Opportunity. Which, if I wanted to use, I would just bring Windows of Opportunity, not a map.
Does anyone feel like the maps, keys or now nerfed fog vials provide them with more gameplay value than other items? Legitimately, I'm curious if some people are making them work for them because they kind of feel like a waste of bloodpoints at the moment.
Comments
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Fog vials are officially dead, soon they will add a usage limit, completely destroying them. I completely agree about the map and key rework, they have made them worse and boring, especially their iri addons. Here's why:
- Iri map addon - the beam goes away very quickly and you can't immediately put a second beam, because you need to wait until the map recovers from the cooldown and then click on m2, and this takes a long time, you lose 5+ seconds, so it is useless in chase for constant aura reading and also has a very small range of 8m, it should be at least be 10-12m, charge penalty is also overkill
- Iri key addon - here it was 100% a mistake to add your aura to the killer, since many use stealth killers and perks, making the addon useless and at the same time you show them your location when they are in stealth (a good example is the merchant/ghostface/chucky). It would be better to return the 32m as it was before and 6 seconds of aura on m2 click (they can even make it 4 seconds if they think it will be op) which is visible only to you (as before), and also they should remove the penalty on charges
Map no longer shows hatch/exit gates right?
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I wouldn't say maps and keys are worse than before, not even close.
As I've said in another thread, keys in particular are almost JUST flat out significantly stronger. The only asterisk that goes on this statement is that the Blood Amber in particular is weaker, but keys now do so much more than before that it more than makes up for that nerf.
Keys are still useful for the hatch, but they now function as replacement items for perks such as Bond and Empathy without needing to use addon slots on it, and they also fit into chest-searching builds unbelievably well. They are just flat out a good and worthwhile item that I'd probably put on par with flashlights overall, in terms of strength and viability.Obviously, they don't match medkits and especially not toolboxes, but that's a really high bar.
Maps are definitely more arguable since they lost a lot of functionality - I have a whole thread about how I don't like the rework for a myriad of reasons - but I still think they're arguably better than before. If you want totem hunting, sure, you have to use an expensive purple addon and that sucks… but the map's still just as good at doing that. They now also have the Windows effect, which is fairly middling as effects go but still useful, so they're still doing okay and on average are honestly a little better since their no-addon effects are far more noticeable, at least for the lower rarity map.
It's more the shape of the rework that's a problem than the strength of the rework.Fog Vials I can't comment on, I've not played a game with nerfed Fog Vials in yet.
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Murky Regeant is a permanent Fog Vial effect now instead of bringing a Fog Vial.
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As person who used key with iri addon before or maps with boon build I still find anything except med kits/toolboxes useless. Even flashlights more about doing extremely risky behaviour with (maybe) some kind of reward
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I occasionally used maps for totem hunting but it was pretty rare. I haven't tried the new ones and don't really feel the need. Maps are good if you're new and you can't find the exit gates or something. I've actually never used the key. It's just not interesting to me.
Fog Vials were on their way to being my new go-to. Killer mains cried about them, so now my meme build is back on the shelf and I'm back to my genrush build. Hope they got what they wanted from that campaign.
So yeah, those are the only three useful items. I'm convinced they want the bloodweb to be filled with crap so you waste your BP and keep grinding. I dump so much into my survivors and I'm still constantly out of the add-ons I want, yet my killers are always good to go with almost no spending. I can get use out of most killers add-ons, but Survivors have endless junk to sift through.
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I tried to warn Behavior. I even put in their PTB patch notes comment section, saying the changes WILL be HARD nerfs to already trash items. The charge idea was dreadfully terrible idea and should’ve never seen the light of day past being a vocal idea in the conference room.
But here we are… because they do not care about our experience anymore or they would’ve realized TWD patch was N O T ready to release and did it anyway.
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No, the charge system feels super good to use. You no longer have to hold a button looking around to see auras. It feels convenient and less stressful. For example, the Crimson Stamp add-on for maps, the Killer aura aspect of it feels so smooth to use. You just place the beam down and it automatically tracks the Killer for you. So you can vault and still see the Killer. Before you had to let go of the button = no aura reveal.
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I lost all hope in survivors getting a decent item updates, its always a nerf, or changes nobody asked for. Its so depressing man.
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I don’t use maps and keys I’m unsure about smoke bombs I don’t really see the point in a portable distortion that’s only effective on indoor maps if you can see right through it anyways, and need visceral to get any kind of real cover otherwise. Basekit is very weak against good killers .So I’ll probably just stick to medkits and toolboxes. ill use fog vials only if I have iri and vigos. Every single other addon and rarity feels very underwhelming. Probably start picking up flashlights with how bloated killer kits are getting and maps the size of postage stamps with diminishing resources. I feel absolutely at a massive disadvantage without a toolbox or medkit(a part of me wishes they were baskekit to survivor so hearing there’s a pending rework coming makes me shake in my boots because there’s hit and run playstyles where you just lose if you don’t have quick plentiful heals) due to how fast paced the games are and how small a very good percentage of the maps are and very really knowing who you will be up against until you load in. That’s just off the dome without getting too deep.
In short im not running a medkit to deal with myers, im running a medkit because idk if im going to get hit and run wraith or singu.
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Fog Vials I can't comment on, I've not played a game with nerfed Fog Vials in yet.
They are, uh… kinda useless.
While I do think infinite uses was too much, I think that adjustment was the only thing they needed.
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I think for me, they could have just capped the uses and maybe done away with the noise suppression and allowed noise.
My main point and I’m going to stand on business for this is if you release or make things more advantageous for the opposite side than the side using it, why would you pick it for your side? There needs to be a reason for it to be picked on the side using it. That’s just the natural path of logic in PvP for a very vast majority of people.
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I agree, my friend.
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My opinions are:
Fog Vials getting a double nerf on top of their PTB to live nerf is ludicrous if it stays as is.
Keys are now a great multi-purpose tool.
Maps are really bland rn and they should get tracking of Exit Gates and Chests at least in add-on form. Plus some improvements like showing everything right away, not separating things between those revealed by channeling and revealed by the light beam.
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Like I said, keys currently have three things they're good for. If we count Blood Amber and unlocking hatch as the previous good use cases, keys went from two good uses to three good uses.
They're good for unlocking hatch, they're good for tracking teammates, and they're good for chest builds. That last one is more potent than you'd think, keys singlehandedly make certain chest-perk combos outright viable.
Maps still work for totem based builds, but like I said, I have a lot of issues with their rework. I just don't think it's constructive to say they're worse now, because that's both arguably not really true and inarguably not the problem.
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They need to revert all of this:
-Keys and add-ons (and adds some buffs)
-Maps and add-ons (same)
-Streetwise (and make the new effect a new perk maybe)
-Franklin's Demise (because it's useless now)
Fog vial can be removed from the game. If its not supposed to be strong than we should just not even bother with it0 -
I promise you buddy, you are in the minority
Nobody likes the new charge system
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I do. The person you're responding to is right - a single button press for lingering aura read is considerably more convenient than having to micromanage being able to hold the button.
It's a part of why keys are so much better at tracking teammates now- you can be doing whatever while reading their aura, on top of having more range and more opportunities to use it.
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And you can only do a few times. Sometimes you won't get the value you are expecting and you waste a charge
Holding the button for the desired amount of time is much more convenient
Nobody was complaining about this
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tbh if the noise was just left normal I'd probably be okay with higher opacity even.
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"A few" is misleading. Minimum 5, maximum 7, on top of the range being noticeably higher so the chances of not seeing your teammates is very low.
The Skeleton key has a range of 64 metres and lasts for 10 full seconds. There's no way to slice it but your chances of being able to effectively track your teammates with the key going up considerably.People were complaining that keys and maps were useless. While this didn't really help maps that much, it absolutely made keys significantly better at their main niche and added an entire new niche on top of that.
Keys were improved, noticeably, and the new charge system is part of why.-1 -
Boost the normal noise after removing the suppression even if it means higher opacity.
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Maximum 7 is pitiful lmao
Well, keys and maps were almost useless, they just needed a simple buff, not what they got
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Seven is quite a lot across the trial, especially considering their hefty range and duration.
I'm not saying it couldn't be higher, but the number we have now is perfectly useful. Keys did get a buff, it just wasn't a simple one.
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I would personally much rather have my own on-demand aura reading. Not a pre-determined amount for a predetermined amount of time. No thank you. I’m more than capable of doing it myself without having a mechanic hold my hand and make it much less useable throughout the match.
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The vast majority of players think the same, don't worry
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I was really disappointed with the map and key changes. Serious question: has there ever once on this forum been any post that anyone can remember that asked for changes to how keys and maps work? I certainly can’t remember seeing anything, so it seems that the change from “seconds of use” to “number of charges” was yet another change that nobody was asking for. Super frustrating.
I agree that the fog vials nerfs went too far. I don’t know what the deal is with BHVR either totally overbuffing or overnerfing things so often. Also super frustrating. Keeping fog vials the same with the exception of limiting the frequency of use a bit more would have been completely fine. As many have said here, now they are basically useless and definitely not worth bringing over a medkit, toolbox or flashlight.
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Uh oh… we upset the only 2 people who like the changes. 😩😩
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This is exaggerated but mostly true without keys. With keys you spend like a second and a half opening a chest, so you're only throwing if you're spending the whole game searching for chests.
A key + Plunderer's and you can make chest builds genuinely viable without wasting any appreciable amount of time.
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"Chest build" covers more than actually wanting the item inside, it also covers stuff like Moment of Glory, Hardened, Specialist, Apocalyptic Ingenuity, etc. Not all of these are worthwhile either way, but keys boost the strength of them considerably all the same, so any that are on the borderline (imo this is mostly just Moment of Glory and Hardened, but I could see an argument for Specialist) become viable.
Actually wanting to use the item does make the build a little riskier, but new Streetwise helps offset that quite a bit, so I'd just say any "actually use the item" build will have Streetwise as a central pillar. After all, then the answer to "why not bring the item itself" is "because doing it this way gives me almost double charges".
(For the record, this is what I think is the MOST viable option. It's what I've been doing with keys since the rework.)We have also pivoted hard from "you are throwing the game spending all your time opening chests" to "you aren't getting enough of a benefit to warrant bringing this over something else", which is quite a different take.
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This is actually the reason I didnt want the vials nerfed (as killer). I found them far more preferable to flashlights and toolboxes and medkits. No one is gonna bring the nerfed version.
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They should just remove them or actually make them useable. Honestly, what they did to Fog Vials is the final straw for me - I already thought they didn't care about the Survivor role, but this was just blatant proof. Bloody Blizzard doesn't even treat their playerbase this badly, and those devs suck.
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I personally like the new map and keys. In terms of the vial nerfs it was really not needed however, the vials are NOT useless. (Here come the 100 downvotes) I play survivor a lot…and I mean…A LOT. The vials are a lot of fun still. I make some great plays with them and I have some great escapes too. Are they perfect? No…But what item or perk is in this game. Everything has a pro and a con.
Post edited by MechWarrior3 on-3 -
Th only reason I would go back to the old charge system is Blood Amber.
Otherwise, the new one is miles better for almost every situation.
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I mean, you still have a pocket Boon: Shadow Step with them, which is good.
The unfortunate part is that the "fog" is not really the main thing.
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The forums won’t let me edit my post for some reason. I meant to say the nerf to vials was not needed.
I do agree with you though 💯2 -
Ever since this update dropped, I've been almost exclusively running Fog Vials, Maps, and Keys in order to try and understand just how useful they are in a Trial.
I think Fog Vials are underrated items that haven't been out long enough for people to utilize its full potential. Will they ever be as valuable as a Med-kit, Toolbox, or even a Flashlight? Probably not. But I've noticed that against high tier killers that require a line-of-sight on you to line up their hits (such as Nurse and Blight) the Fog Vial is actually very effective. Any item that can counter higher tier killers while not affecting the lower tier killers as much is a good thing, in my opinion. I'm not sure how necessary the nerfs were, but I don't think they will impact the item as much as people are saying. I believe the point of the Fog Vial is solely to break line-of-sight and not to be able to hide in front of the Killer or pull any sort of similar shenanigans. I think once more people realize that, you'll hear more people complain about how "strong" they suddenly are.
Maps seems to have been sidegraded; you can't "feather" them anymore (tapping the 'Use Item' button in order to briefly glimpse at the auras, saving as much durability as possible) but the new "Windows of Opportunity"-like effect is not as shallow as you think it is. Not only is this an amazing tool for newer players who may not even have the perk, but you can put this item on any chase-oriented Survivor build and now instead of bringing Windows of Opportunity, you have a free slot to bring much stronger perks instead. However, in my opinion, the "Crimson Stamp" add-on (the Iridescent one that shows you the Killer's aura near the Beam of Light) could use a slight range buff to make it worth using over a Key with a "Blood Amber", and perhaps it should take less time to actually channel the Map so it feels less clunky to activate before or during a chase.
Keys were definitely buffed and I will stand by this. The only thing about Keys that were nerfed was the "Blood Amber" add-on, and of course it was going to be nerfed because pre-rework it was the ONLY reason people brought Keys. It's very rare that people bring them to unlock the Hatch, so the other new use case of immediately opening a Chest makes it insanely easy to trigger some niche perks. A great example: If you bring a key alongside "Appraisal" (the Elodie Rakoto teachable perk that recently got buffed, allowing you to rummage chests) you can activate "Moment of Glory" (the Trevor Belmont teachable perk that breaks & heals you after 60 seconds if you search/rummage two times beforehand) in less than 10 seconds at the start of the match if you spot a Chest. Normally this perk is overlooked because the time investment is not worth the reward, but when it's this easy to get now, it's essentially just a free auto-heal on a minute long timer, which can force the Killer to either commit to you or leave you to heal yourself passively while you work on gens.
Overall, I think these were actually good items changes, but the majority of the community is going to overlook these items because they don't heal you or do gens faster.0 -
They could probably do with keeping keys but the rest yeah, get rid.
Also get rid of the alturism/survival/butality etc 50%/75%/100% bloodpoint offerings and boost escape cakes/surv pudding and party streamers, gives more space for actually useful items.
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I mean, if you bring a key instead of the perk, you get… to bring more perks that do different things.
That's part of the value proposition of items in general. Bring medkits and you don't have to bring Self-Care, bring a toolbox and you don't have to bring Saboteur, bring a map and you don't need to bring Deja Vu/Visionary/etc, and so on.
Most items do extra stuff as well - which keys do too, nowadays - but they're kinda supposed to be extra perk slots in a sense. The only real exception was flashlights for a long time, and now fog vials too.I get not wanting that, but it not being an effect you'd personally want doesn't stop keys from being significantly better now.
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While playing killer the Vials did absolutely nothing to hinder me. Haven't tried them on survivor but they certainly seem useless.
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I really wish they would implement a system where you could sell things you aren’t using for blood points. I feel your pain. I have so many things I don’t even see as useful. As of late, I haven’t even been bringing items or offerings. Going to lose them or not even have a chance to use it. Sad about the fog vials but I told myself I will not be touching them since their release.
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That's insanely reductive, keeping track of your teammates is for way more than just that.
For example, there's knowing who's going for a save if someone's hooked, that's another pretty big reason to keep an eye on your teammates. There's also going to injured teammates so YOU can heal them, which is often an aura you'd want in builds that maybe wouldn't have room for Empathy without committing all your perks to it.
It's also broadly useful to just know who is where, so you know what generators are being worked on, where chases are taking place, and can just broadly keep track of the macro.0
