http://dbd.game/killswitch
Kaneki is unfun to play against
No counterplay at all
But skull merchant deserved nerf after nerf when she wasn't half as poweful as him.
Please, explain to me how it works to balance a killer
Comments
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Well, old friend, Skull Merchant 2.0 only got nerfed because of the "hate train" caused by her release + the meta at the time of her release.
Kaneki, who unlike SM does need nerfs, will probably stay the way he is for a while. At least that is what we can assume from the latest Reddit AMA. Just hope it doesn't take too long.
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its not like that
they panicked about SM since so many content creators made videos about her they even added a 3 gen system which was really not needed because why the hell am i getting punished for the survivors not paying attention BUT OK. literally 3 killers in this game could hold 3 gen
and kept nerfing her, kaneki is getting nerfs later but if they keep this approach of not erasing the killer the moment this community starts whining about them talking about killers in general its gonna be nice and we might just have more vaible killers for the near future
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dont hold w. in 99% of my playtime against ghoul I only went down cuz I held w. Ghoul has no chase power besides fast vaults. If he does fast vault, dont be out of position. If your in position and loop around to vault again he wont catch you
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I am tend to be pretty sympathetic to the killer side as I play that role half the time, but I have to agree here. Kaneki is super unfun to play against. Take everything that is unfun/borung about Legion and add in crazy map mobility on top of that. I still have yet to play against a Kaneki where at least one survivor didn’t DC or give up immediately.
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buffed how?
how is limiting the kicking gen (a main objective to win) for the killer making it so its a lose lose situation need a buff exactly?
and doesn't deja vu exist to counter this whole thing?
and if its 2 survivor left u are not winning that game, that's how dbd is, just choose one and go for hatch play
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To be totally honest, I don't really think he makes that much of a difference in the majority of trials. He is unfun and makes chases feel pretty pointless unless you know how to punish him, but Kaneki players tend to make really bad plays and he overall doesn't camp/tunnel/slug better or worse than most of the roster. If he's nerfed into oblivion or stays the same, the quality of trials will be unchanged (at least from my perspective).
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oh u mean more progressive with the game, i thought u meant generally, know what that is not a bad idea at all
and yea tbh i just go find the killer and let the other survivor get hatch play if its just 2 of us, especially in soloQ, like no point in wasting time playing hide and seek and making the game boring for both sides
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I think it has more to do with the fact that sometimes his ability can go through objects, or the fact that latency plays into it making it seem like it's bypassing objects. It could also be the hitbox, like how Springtap and Huntress axes seem to have a wide hitbox. In fact, instead of using hitboxes, they can use the mesh of the object as the collision and setting the collision of the mesh to complex would make sure it matches the mesh allowing for better accuracy.
Overall, it could be all or multiple of those factors at play. Some minor adjustments would definitely be suitable to making them more fun to play against. Sure, it'd be slightly more difficult for killer but not too much. I've seen many videos and played matches where they shouldn't have gotten the hit. The targets were off by half a meter (50 Unreal units in length), which also makes me wonder ifnthey are using different lengths to determine a meter but still... 50 units is consistent with how far off the target has to be to still get hit when it should be 0, relative to the size of the mesh itself.
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Nah sm was devs fault all they needed to do was limit how many times generator can be damaged and that was all but instead they nerfed gen kicking perks hard and then they butchered skullmerchant because twiter demanded this change (probably the most toxic forum from this comunity) thats all she could make game last long but only because she kicked gengs and they regressed to zero.
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im sorry that is so funny xd
zombies can be so random sometimes, they sometimes camp a gen sometimes they camp the basement
and somtimes they just get stuck
nobody could bait them away or did nemi come when he noticed it?
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I feel like just making him not put in deep wound, get rid of the hinder when marked after he vaults at you, 30 second of enraged, more cooldown after a leap (zoning)
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Tbh in like minimaly 1/3 games at least one zombie will get stuck somwhere like stepsister in washing machine and in open maps zombies are joke so much time and room to doge them.
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Main issue is he got free injury in his kit, where whole premise is issue of downing survivors. But he simply doesn't have that, not even close.
I would say his lethality is better than majority of killers and one of best mobility powers on top of it. I have no idea who designed this killer.
My main issue is his ability to fully cancel his power mid dash, that's just shouldn't be a thing, because it makes it so easy to use with no counterplay. Why killer, who is supposed to have low lethality, can fully cancel his power whenever he wants and has also one of lowest fatigues…
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Kaneki is very good at tunneling…
You could say PH is better if nearby, but Kaneki can return to hook from basically anywhere on the map and then easily force Mending on survivor, which disables OTR and DH.11 -
That's very true. But it doesn't feel much different than most other Killers in that regard. The end result is the same unfortunately.
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Revert SM nerfs and Nerf Kaneki
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The fact people downvoted you when u clearly provided actual counterplay is so sad :(
Do they expect killer having counterplay they wish to see?
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Wont get nerfed because the "good" developers would earn less money if they nerf a license killer so they prefer money over their community. And all that after they announced quality of life.
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people will literally get down voted for fan art, i still don't understand the point of downvotes, they are so useless
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Yeah he is miserable to play against, when I hear his terror radius I feel the same as I did back in matches against the skull merchant before her nerfs and games against nurse back before her range add ons were nerfed and mmr was a lot stricter. I think something that a lot of people are missing is that on top of all the other things going for him he's also a short killer which makes it a lot easier to win a bunch of loops if you're an experienced killer. So what he has going for him is he has crazy mobility, a free first hit, a power which makes typically safe loops guaranteed hits and size that also helps him in m1 chases. So basically the gameplay loop against him as survivor is take the free first hit, then play one loop then once you're forced to drop the pallet you just die. The good news is he wouldn't be all that hard to bring to a healthy spot, he only really needs two changes to give survivors a chance against him. One he should be a 110% killer instead of a 115%, this will offset his size advantage in loops and generally make loops harder for him to play, two he needs a much longer time where he can't swing coming out of power, as killer if you lose a loop you should be punished by the survivor being able to make it to the next loop, this would also make matches for survivors more fun against him because they know the way they play actually affects the outcome of the chase. Those two changes would probably bring him into line with the rest of the killers power wise.
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Slight issue is it simply doesn't work… Basically none of it.
Ghoul has no chase power besides fast vaults.
Yeah, that's just not true, he can use his power on larger loops to get down with how low his fatigue is and it's kinda easy when he can just cancel his power next to survivor.
Smaller loops you can simply mind game, because he is normal movement speed. People are acting like he is Huntress and actually struggle with rock loops… No, he doesn't
If he does fast vault, dont be out of position.
What does that even mean? If survivor drops a pallet when he has LoS, he can just vault targeting survivor and survivor is just dead unless pallet is unsafe. Nothing to do about it. If it is safe loop and he is nearby, then you usually can't even greed it.
Funny is I can tell by animation when he cancels his power (how tentacles move), so I try to wait under pallet for cancel and then drop it, but he does it so fast he is actually able to cancel and pull out the power again to vault anyway…
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what I mean is that try to be in a position like holding checkspots where he would have a tough time trying to catch you. Unless the loop has a long wall you shouldnt be getting hit from my experience.
And the ghoul requires one kagune leap to be used to fast vault, giving you much time to lose LoS.
if his tentacles are pointed towards you, his power is up and ready but to get out of it takes 2.5~ seconds which should give enough time to loop around-1 -
U can vault the same pallet after his vault, so basically it works same as against wesker/legion. If he is not in enraged mode he always plays as m1 in every possible loop, so his core powerf is eating distance between loops or in open field. And many, really many survivors just used to shift w. Because it was always the wisest counterplay for killers. But he is just created different and requires some positioning knowledge. Or good map rgn…
Both him and Wesker vaulting for 1.5 seconds and has same cooldown after. After infection Wesker also applies permanent hindered, Ghoul also applies hindered after biting but for 0.5 sec. He is not special in terms of vaulting. Idk why u sincerely believe, that he can auto put you down. If he use his power
His cooldown after vaulting shortens only when u have LOS while he is in enranged mode. Not all of the time. And this LOS for targetting is 3-4 metres, not really a lot until u directly stay on. And the trickiest thing u can abuse it but standing in right position after his vault to immediately go beside him and vault on opposite side.
I don’t play ghoul myself and still against buying him because I’m greatly disappointed about how buggy he is, but I encountered ghoul many times as survivor. Not some baby killers, a lot of had p20- p50. If u have good loop and u are injured he have to play as m1 killer. Without bamboozle and his centipede addon he has pretty pathetic anti loop, and the only reason why he is so op in solo is his mobility and free first hit scan. His anti loop isn’t problematic a lot and provides counterplay. He literally the first killer who lose tokens of his power after breaking the pallet.
I lost against him by many reasons, but definetely not because of his vaulting. And I’m not extremely experienced survivor even. U just need to follow simple
- Keep distance in loop even
- Never mindless shift w against him, because he has free mobility
I’m not telling here ghoul is extremely easy to go against and that he shouldn't be reworked (for me they need completely rework his autoaim) . But people claiming he is unloopable and providing his vaulting as arguement to this…. just, how u play against wesker then? While Wesker has even greater potential for outplaying in loop, and only one thing that makes him weakier is poor mobility and actual skill involved requirements…
Remove kidnap tech and he is the weakiest antiloop killer that was presented since last chapters. Many people trying to point on his vault as the main problem, devs listening them, punishes him by losing tokens and etc. But I bet it won’t fix the actual ghoul issue. He should be addressed and reworked in completely different way
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U can vault the same pallet after his vault, so basically it works same as against wesker/legion
It harder than Wesker and Legion is not even possible comparison. Legion vaults way further from window and can't down you with it, it's very easy to vault back.
Kaneki can down/injure you and it's harder to time it than against Wesker. While Kaneki is on top of it pallet, if you are anywhere close to it at that moment, it doesn't matter how far you run it will down you, so you need to actually run away and then turn around to vault back.
That's basically last resort if you know you will get downed anyway, but not really something you can do everytime.
And many, really many survivors just used to shift w. Because it was always the wisest counterplay for killers
Well, sometimes you have to reach another loop. Especially when Kaneki blocks your window with Bamboozle…
And because how easy kaneki is with his full cancel, you can't even double back against it.Idk why u sincerely believe, that he can auto put you down. If he use his power
because he can, you will be downed on majority of safe loops… Wesker doesn't hold you in place with his vault, it takes longer to prepare and slower to reach the pallet. Those two are not even close to be the same.
His cooldown after vaulting shortens only when u have LOS while he is in enranged mode. Not all of the time.
Oh right, because it's so difficult to be in enraged mode as Kaneki and definetly not something you can keep whole game….
Remove kidnap tech and he is the weakiest antiloop killer that was presented since last chapters
He wouldn't be anywhere close to be weakest antiloop killer in general, but he should be considering free injury and high mobility. That's the whole premise for it.
My main issue is his full cancel, because it makes him so easy to play. Get rid of that and I am fine with him, but I am not going to be bothered to play against him now. I will gladly take all Blights/Weskers/Nurses in the game over game against Kaneki.5 -
It harder than Wesker and Legion is not even possible comparison. Legion vaults way further from window and can't down you with it, it's very easy to vault back.
I did it myself multiple times… nothing crazy0 -
On this video u clearly can see that their models finishes vault animation at the same place
On this video u can find some tips about how countering it, maybe u’ll struggle less in loops after this
Another tips
I don't really wanna discuss it anymore because any counterplay of this killer I provide here is countered by “but that's hard”.
How I supposed to answer on this. “Learn how to counterplay?”
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On this video u clearly can see that their models finishes vault animation at the same place
I said window, have you ever trying to window tech Legion? It's so easy and he can't down you.
Also as I said, Kaneki has by far best window vault out of all of them. They just don't work same.On this video u can find some tips about how countering it, maybe u’ll struggle less in loops after this
Not sure if it was under your comment, but tip 2 simply doesn't work. He is able to pull his power back against and will down you at least on god pallets anyway unless you have something else nearby.
I disagree with tip 1 unless you have perk for healing, it's simply not worth it. Thing is Kaneki is going to bite you anyway, even if you are injured to keep him enraged.
Tip 3 works to some extent, but that doesn't change the fact those are limited and can often be just mind gamed. Kaneki is not 110% killer, so he doesn't really struggle with those like Huntress for example.
I provide here is countered by “but that's hard”.
Well, I am fine with his counterplay being hard, if he would be equally hard to play. But he is not, he is very easy killer.
I think counterplay against all top tier killers is hard, because all of them are unique compare to classic M1 killers, but those killers also need some practice (Nurse, Blight, Billy, Wesker). I just can't say same about Kaneki.
To be fair last video is actually good. Especially the way you can prevent kindap tech and force him to bite instead of vault. I would say this supports the idea of staying injured imo, because you can force him to bite you.4 -
Problem is that hes not fun to play on both sides, brain dead easy on killer side, not fun on survivor side. Both sides are suffering here. On killer there is no challenge using him and hes so over powered hes not fun to play as survivor. This isn't just a survivor sided issue here.
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Same with windows. They all stuck in same position after vault.
Ghoul in loop playing as wesker, but without dashes. Same bodyblicks, same cooldowns, same counterplay.
Taking free first hit? Yes, that’s his actual problem along with kidnap tech. Antillop? Pure skill issue from survivors
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Pure skill issue from survivors
Well, issue is you want from survivors something you don't want from ghoul. I would say difficulty of playing against and playing as should be equal, but that's not the case.
Right now ghoul can counter windows, safe pallets, hold W, protection hits. Also has free hit, one of best mobility on top of it and is very easy to play, because he simply doesn't need to know where to target his power.
So either there should be easier and better counterplay for survivors, or ghoul should become more difficult to play as.
I want to remove his ability to cancel dash, because that actually gives a counterplay for survivors (double back) and ghoul will have to know, where to target his leap to end near survivor.
I think it would be hilarious to see ghoul zoom past me, because he dashed too close.Same with windows. They all stuck in same position after vault.
But how fast they start vault is different for each of them (Ghoul is fastest), Wesker also often gets blocked in front of pallet instead when survivors drops it.
Legion has by far weakest vault, you can't be serious trying to say they are same…1 -
That’s where I’m agree with and that's why I’m waiting for his rework. I’m against boring braindead killers. But people who complaining on his anti loop for me just have a such a weird point, because after few months it ‘s not that hard to understand that the only weakness he has is force him to play as m1 after he injured u.
And devs probably will listen such people and nerf him by removing of more tokens or something like that. Fine then, personally I don’t care because I don’t playing him. But this won't stop Kaneki from being annoying at all, because the real problem with its mechanics remains. His “antiloop” is the least problematic to go against and the least easiest to play on him, yet people focus on it so much it seems they try to justify their shift w against him as only valid strategy. And that ‘s why person above got so much hate by explaining probably the only available advice how to deal with frustration against this killer. And that person even wasn’t that harsh with argument as me.
We’ll just get another Clown then. The way of his terrible rework was caused by multiple complaints about his slow down bottles and that people can’t counter it, while on killer player side “it'sso easy to spam with them”. They changed it thinking it will work, but he started to be even more unbearable. Do we really wants to repeat such changes again and again to create more SM or Clown parody? Ghoul should be definitely changed, but not in terms of his anti- loop. It's like focusing on small plastic bag laying on the ground while few metered from u there's a whole overturned bucket littering the street.
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No info on Wiki about difference in vaulting pallets/windows on both of them. It considered as obstacles and have same duration
They have an equal modifier of leap/bound speed (14 m/s)
If u really want to see all numbers… One person already did it here on forum
U also can block prompt for vault and force Kaneki to bite u instead of letting him vaulting, as it was in video I linked. In Wesker case, u cannot prevent his vaulting.
Again. I’m up to changing him. But his vaults is the least thing u should worry about definetely
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people kept dcing and complaining about version 2 of skull merchant to the point she had over 70% KR. That 's why they guttes her to oblivion even if she didn't deserve it.
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It's not like I asked for nerf for his vault. I have bigger issue with his full mid dash cancel.
Another thing is you are comparing vault actions itself, which may seem same/similar, but you ignore how quickly killer can prepare their power and how quickly they reach pallet.Kaneki definetly is better than Wesker at those, he pulls his power faster and he actually hold survivor in place during the leap for a moment. Wesker doesn't have that.
Wesker have an issue of vaulting pallet when survivor is dropping the pallet. Often bounce from pallet and needs to use another dash to vault → even slower. Also survivor is free to run away immediately after dropping pallet against Wesker/Legion, which is not true for Kaneki.
I mean, but overall with his kit I don't really understand why he has vault in first place. He can bite over objects/pallets/windows, so unlike Legion he doesn't really need to get on other side.
I would love to see stats about how often survivor is downed within 8 +/- seconds after Legion, Chucky, Wesker, Kaneki performs their special vault. I would expect Kaneki to win by a lot.4 -
he can vault as the only potential of some kind of anti loop power. That’s simple
All of his other power with that silly auto aim and leaps are entirely meant as way of mobility around the map.
Actually, I’m thinking BHVR attempted some vertical gameplay on him. That’s why his auto aim so busted. I’m pretty sure it was created for climbing and sliding, not free first hit scan. And enraged mod probably was for the same reason here. He was supposed to be another S tier probably, but with extreme high skill ceiling. Or maybe it's my simple phantasy.
But then they realised they need to completely rework many hitboxes on every map and introduce completely different game mechanic. While they simply don’t have resources. And then they just “well, just let him have this free hit and vaults so he’ll stay S tier as we planned”
For me he is completely same as SM. Great attempt for introducing something new for designing new mechanic /strategy, but it turns out to be just miserable experience. I’m not a big fun of Tokyo Ghoul franchise, but it was my first anime. And I was so disappointed they missed such potential so just refused to buy him. And maybe that's why I feel so frustrated when people complain on something least important as his cheap anti loop. Like… we clearly have something even worse here
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Still better to have him as opponent than blight or nurse you have way more counterplay even he has almost free injure you can still play around it and he has to chase you down with only tools that remains to him are fast vault and his mobility to catch up or cut you off (kidnap tech but its rare to see some ghoul use it), only problem I have with him is one bug pretty big and its not kidnap tech which will probably become feature because it looks devs cant find the way how to fix it without destroying ghoul or dbd. When he breaks palett he should loose 1 token of his leap and when he is enraged (all bright red) he should loose two tokens after breaking palett but he looses only one and thats pretty big Idk if devs make this normal because its one of his last nerfs theres no clue they reverted it, you think one token isnt that much well theres different cooldown in enraged mode token cooldown is faster than in his normal mode and makes him more powerfull in catching up than he should be I already reported this with few more his bugs patch before but looks like its not that big deal so I wont be waisting my time reporting this crap again. I bet theres still that one bug where when you slide and move your camera fast (flick) as ghoul and hit survivor in open you should get injure with grab animation but you will get just enraged and it cancels your leap like you hit survivor while theres some blocking object between you two.
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This was intended that his vault should be faster than wesker, wesker can damage you with his dash but ghoul cant so he can have some antiloop in this form but they missed bug called kidnap tech that made him way more busted then he should be without kidnap his fast vault doesnt make that crazy distance most times it creates 50/50 but only works on long wall safe loops like the one palett on gideon near basement if one is down and other is broken then its free hit. Thats why he hit you free after release he vaulted behind you kidnap tech you and he had bigger hitbox after vault same or maybe litttle bigger than wesker which was free hit.
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he can vault as the only potential of some kind of anti loop power.
Why should have have it, when he has free injury? He shouldn't have any antiloop power.
Such a killer should have difficulty of downing survivors as Legion. Ghoul's kit simply doesn't make sense imo.
Just free injury and high mobility would make him a good killer.6 -
So, we have Legion. He is one of the weakiest killer. Not a lot of people playing him on usual basic. If Ghoul struggles as well as him, no one will buy him.
New killers will never be equivalent of having “hard time” as old ones. Someone call it power creep, I call it marketing.
He will get SM treatment later if hate train will continue, don’t worry
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His kit just doesn't make sense to me, why he should have better vault than Legion and even Wesker. Especially with how hated thing it was with Chucky scamper…
Killer who has free injury (better than Legion) should have an issue downing survivors and they give him currently best vault power and one of best mobility powers?
Then ability to fully cancel his dash, which not even Blight and Wesker can do, while also one of lowest fatigues.3 -
trapless trapper is too strong of a chase killers for some people, so a Super Saiyan Trapless Trapper was obviously too powerful to exist.
I find it odd that SM got all the hate but nobody talked about Clown despite him being a known miserable quantity alongside other beloved killers like Knight.
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Curently he is one of the killers where bhvr tryed to cover many things with killer power like giving him mobility,antiloop (vault), fast injure, same as original chucky some stealth, dash atack with form of antiloop in manual scamper or dash scamper.
He is easier than legion only in more open areas if there isnt any cluster of blocking objects or indoor maps like larrys where you can block his easy injure animation but legion will still hit you there without problem, overall ghouls strong killer and I will go against him with more fun than against blight or nurse where is much more counterplay.
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Oh yes he is indeed.
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Would love to see behaviour even mention if they are going to do more to fix the ghoul. As someone who has played since 2020 this is the most draining experience I've had in this game and makes me not want to play purely due to the ghoul.
Even skull merchant matches would be a bit funny because it would just be she wouldn't chase very far away from her gens so alot of games surviours would just end up tbagging and looking at her outside of the 3 gen because sm wouldn't want to leave it.
It don't help even ghoul ive been matched with running dms, pain res, bamboozle like yall really need more crutches on this killer.
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"Balancing is an iterative process" meaning maybe in another 6 months they'll nerf something completely unrelated to what makes him horrible to play against.
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then you must have faced some really really bad ghoul players. I have like 4 ish hours on ghoul (including waiting in lobby) and I can tell you right now, I have beaten survivors in situations where I would have been demolished if I played any other killer that wasn't nurse, blight, or wesker.
Ghoul straight up does not have any counterplay. holding W doesn't work. Looping doesn't work. Moving to another tile doesn't work. Stuns do not work. Even ######### god pallets won't always work as his vault AND recovery are faster than wesker's.
Please stop pretending like the guy is balanced at all
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