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Why the new Ranking System will FAIL

AlwaysInAGoodShape
AlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,301
edited April 2019 in General Discussions

I warned about the systemic flaws of the Emblem system a while back:

For those of you who've already read the above post, you know why it was destined to fail. However to understand why the new official rank system will fail and will continue to fail I will cover the basic principles of its inherent design flaws.

Football, or any basic sport for that matter operates in a somewhat similar way: 1 team plays against the other. When team A scores team A will get a point. When team B scores team B will get a point. It is irrelevant however that team B has scored 10 points, even though this is a remarkable amount, if team A had 11 points.

In other words, it's not about how much you score. It's about whether you scored more than the other. By definition; there's only 1 winner.

So why is football important to understand DBD? In DBD team A would be the survivors and team B would be the killer, am I right?

Here's the tricky part: The answer is no.

In Dead by Daylight, the killer and survivor are actually both in team A. There is no team B.

In order to understand that, you need to understand the true nature of an opponent: An opponent would be someone who'd win when you'd lose and someone who loses when you'd win. An ally naturally opposite of that is someone who's win-condition is not in contrast to yours and is able to win simultaneously with you. It is of course possible for an ally to screw you over but the principle still stands.

In Dead by Daylight, 14 out of the 16 Emblem Points are what I call "Cooperative Emblems". These 14 Emblems are possible to fill for both the killer and for the survivor if both parties cooperate.

Both killers and survivors can get 4 (Lightbringer) emblems by doing a Gen and letting a killer regress it a couple of times.

Both killers and survivors can get 4 (Malicious) emblems by hitting survivors and healing them back up.

Both killers and survivors can get 4 (Chaser) emblems by simply spending enough time chasing and often enough.

Only when it comes to the Sacrifice category are killers and survivors no longer pure allies. In fact: survivors should always let themselves be killed if they cooperate, as this gives the killer 4 Emblems and gives the survivors 2 if they lives long enough, meaning that both the survivors and killers Double Pip every game through cooperation. Since the last 2 Emblem Points are irrelevant, survivors and killers remain their status of being pure allies.

DBD as a horror game in which the killer and survivors are teammate is in fact to boring that we see one of the strangest events occur in all of gaming's history:

The overwhelming majority out of boredom collectively start game-throwing (about 99% of them) and the Developers themselves cheer this game-throwing behaviour. Instead of playing the game properly, Killers start throwing by trying to kill survivors as fast as possible and Survivors start game-throwing by trying to escape.

Why would they throw away a guaranteed win? The answer is simple: DBD (as defined by the Emblem system) is so boring that people start making up their own win-conditions.

Now you understand the 5 versus 0 problem, you might've already guessed the solution. Just do what football does! There should only be 1 winner! The win of survivors should mean a loss for a killer and vice versa. There is no space for cooperation.

All Emblems would adhere to 1 philosophy: When the survivor's emblem is growing, that of the killer is decreasing and again, vice versa. The moment this is untrue, we have a problem on our hands, and the current Emblem system has that problem 14 times.

One of the problems with this quite popular solution in sports is that DBD is asymmetrical. Of course our worries would've already be shushed if the 2 parties were true enemies, but in this asymmetrical environment how would there ever be at balance?

This simply adds 1 more element to the mix: Not only are the killer and survivor competing against one another. Survivors are also competing against survivors outside the match and the killer is competing against other killers. Here's how:

There are emblems that are directly opposite of each other. For example:

For every generator repaired, the survivors get 20% of the lightbringer emblem. The killer loses 20% of their related emblem.

Once 3/4 of such emblems are in place, we'll have a competitive match without cooperation, but there's a catch:

The winner won't be the team that has more than 50% of the emblem points. Instead, we take the scores of a particular side and compare it to other people's score in the same rank! Confusing? Here's how it would work:

Let's say Im a survivor and I got 30% of the emblems during a match. Now, at lower ranks, a killer will more often dominate than the survivor so we expect such a result. With my 30%, we compare it to other scores within my rank. If people in rank 20 only have 25%, then clearly i'm performing above average and should thus be promoted.

The same goes for killer: If you play at rank 20 and you get 70% every time, well maybe killers at this rank normally get 75% meaning that even though you dominated the survivors, you won't be promoted because you played worse than other players within the same rank.

This same system can look at: Which killer the player is using to make all killers viable rank-wise:

If you are at rank 1 as a nurse, we expect you to get 90% of the emblems. If you have 85% then you might be on your way to being demoted. Yet, if you had been playing Freddy at rank 1 and only got 70%, then maybe you will stay at that rank because the average score wouldn't be 90%, but 60% and you played above average!

Same goes for SWF. It would be able to solve all balance problems rank-wise by using the average score per rank and setting a specific domain for every rank:

Rank 1 would be the best 0.1% players. Rank 2 = best 0.5%. Rank 3 = best 2%. Rank 20 = best 100% etc.

However, we don't have the above solution. Instead we had the blunt ideology of wanting to make ranking "Harder" by increasing the required Emblem points required to pip.

Now see the problem here?

Since it's a 5 versus 0, you don't make it harder since emblems in DBD are obtained through mostly cooperation. Instead, the game FURTHER promotes cooperation above competition. Because there is no competition, 1 player losing doesn't mean that the other is winning. This means that if the killer and survivor do not properly or unconsciously cooperate, they will both lose.

It's time to start running circles in the exit gate and have the killer dance a long: It's farming time.

What people knowingly or unknowingly mean by making rank harder is by creating a rank domain in which only a certain % can be in that rank. Sports is very similar: If you want Gold, you have to be the BEST.

If you want to be worlds best 100 meter sprinter, you have to pass the 9.58 seconds mark. This number was set there by players, not by the creator of the sport.

Yet DBD is the 100 meter sprint sport in which the devs set these marks themselves:

If you run 100 meters in 50 seconds, you will claim the title best player in the world! (followed by nearly everybody simultaneously becoming the best player in the world)

And with the new ranking system: "Oops 50 seconds was too much! Let's make it 5!", and suddenly nobody can be the best player in the world anymore as the record is 9.58. It does not matter how high or low, the system will always fail. It's because the Devs should never had the role to define that treshhold. The players should've set it themselves as the 9.58 was. The olympic players should've set the talent required to make it there... and most importantly: They had to be in a real competition.

I think that covers all! I hope that all of you now understand and have attained the judgement through which you can spot faulty ranking systems from the getgo and how to spot functioning ones.

I also hope that you don't only see that the new ranking system in DBD doesn't work, but also see why it would never work and what the nature of its flaws are.

Thank you for reading!

Post edited by AlwaysInAGoodShape on

Comments

  • AlwaysInAGoodShape
    AlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,301
    edited April 2019

    What happened to markdown.

    Edit: Ignore the random Bold text.

    Post edited by AlwaysInAGoodShape on
  • AntiJelly
    AntiJelly Member Posts: 1,155

    Forum markdown rework! Working on posts before the rework is a disaster.

  • AlwaysInAGoodShape
    AlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,301

    Is there any tutorial on how it works now? xD

    I noticed the "preview" was missing too.

  • AntiJelly
    AntiJelly Member Posts: 1,155

    @AlwaysInAGoodShape Ahh sorry about the late response! It doesn't notify anyone anymore when you quote them, you have to directly mention them. So I didn' see this until now. But basically, they made it so you just have to press buttons in a menu now, instead of manually putting in symbols and the like.

  • AntiJelly
    AntiJelly Member Posts: 1,155

    @AlwaysInAGoodShape Also they removed the ability to have colored text. A true tragedy.

  • AlwaysInAGoodShape
    AlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,301

    Damn, I really miss the old system. This one feels so much more restrictive.

  • Shad03
    Shad03 Member Posts: 3,732

    Holy hell, put this on your wall, but I can't believe you're back. Welcome back buddy!

    Also very nice read, I feel very informed.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,835
    edited April 2019

    Overwatch actually tried this ranking system(your proprosed ranking system) and it failed miserably, because players looked to earn the most "points" in the hidden rank system rather than play the game properly.

    What the game assumes is that if one party is dominating a match, the opposing party is suffering because each of emblems go hand in hand to winning a match. I won't elaborate this in 3 other paragraphs for why this is, but it should be very obvious. With higher point requirements, Unless intentional, It is very unlikely that both parties will maintain their rank. That was the problem in old system, both parties could maintain black pips, therefore people would just stay stuck at rank 1 on both sides for entire season until reset.

    So, Why is it possible for killers to be rank 1 in this system but not for survivors(average rank is 5) you may ask? It's because survivors are competing against their other teammates to get points(in the healing and objective category) and survivors rely on teammates while killer rely on no one and they aren't competing against anyone in the game itself. Basically, Killer can get all their points by fulfilling their objectives, but survivors have limited amount of objective category, A limited healing category, Boldness and Survival. There's also the problem of, if a killer dc, your deranking because apparently your playing "bad".

    I think the killer ranking is ok, but survivor ranking needs adjustment. I think the two adjustment they need to do for survivor is make escaping an absolute single pip and only use emblems for survivor if a survivor "died" in the trial to black pip. A killer dcing should not make the survivor derank, The way the survivor emblems are right now, they're too commutative towards other survivors for the number of points required to pip(at red rank). Because there are are no survivors at red rank, the matchmaking is completely bonkers now.

  • AlwaysInAGoodShape
    AlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,301

    @Devil_hit11

    "Overwatch actually tried this ranking system(your proposed ranking system) and it failed miserably, because players looked to earn the most "points" in the hidden rank system rather than play the game properly."


    They did not. What failed in Overwatch was that their their ranking system and "playing the game properly" didn't match.

    You might want to ask yourself what "playing the game properly" means. If you know what it means than there you have the particular features of your emblem system.

    Often what "playing the game properly" means is simply winning. That makes for a decent emblem system. Add on top of that how many generators have been completed in case there wasn't an escape and make sure all survivors get rewarded as to make them not play self-ish.

  • Kilmeran
    Kilmeran Member Posts: 3,142
    edited April 2019

    @AlwaysInAGoodShape, You are correct about Overwatch (I've played the game since Beta, played the Beta version of Comp, then the live version that came later).

    The issue with the Overwatch system is performance based SR. It weighs your performance on a said Hero against others in your bracket. That would be fine, except the system doesn't account for Hero Switching at all. So, if I started as Junkrat, played him for several minutes until I had to switch to, say, Soldier 76 to counter their Pharah, the system is going to gauge my performance as 76 and Junkrat against others in my bracket. The issue is, those others could have played them for the entire match, so my performance with them is going to look weak.

    Another example: I had a Competitive match on Illios last year. I was Junkrat with a Pharah on my team. We won all points 100-0. I was gold that match with 9 eliminations. Yeah, you read that right: 9 elimination was gold. The reason? The Pharah and I zoned the enemy team so hard that they couldn't get to the point. They rarely got close to it.

    My SR reward at the end was 10 SR. Because I was DPS and my elims were so low (even though it was a gold medal) even though I zoned the enemy and prevented them from touching the point, the system deemed me a poor performer.

    That was my final competitive match ever played, and is one of several reasons I walked away from Overwatch competitive. There are many strats that can win a match, and performance based SR doesn't account for them. It should be a win-loss SR system, and not just for Diamond and above like it is now.