Your Thoughts: Is Killer Harder?

I wouldn't say so, but I haven't really noticed. it's the same as ever, I feel. if the survs just refuse to do anything when SB+Finesse is on cooldown, they are stacking Vigil and on comms you just lose. then when you play a terrible level as Ghoul where survs aren't doing all that they just explode.

Nah killer probably stayed similar, here and there a bit tiny loss of killrate due to modern dbd content on social media guides and just pumping information towards general playerbase to catch up every new player up to speed fast.

I would say the mmr system is just in flaw here how it matches players so the new changes are confirmed so i hope they are what i suspect it is.

Which is the system will take in consideration of total matches played × killrate/escape rate × overall performance of grade categories.

From my experience in higher mmr i am with myers the matches i get matched are outrageously experienced players that path really well and keep it tight and not waste any time, and often enough it FEELS like its a combo of 2 different parties of swfs i queue up againts.

So im just saying for me it feels like that.

I think its just the go next prevention which made survivors unable to kill themself on the hook and this makes them to stay there int the macth and rush gens so the game ends fast, I have noticed that when I play killer thats not liked by most surivvors like ghoul or clown.

I still find it depends on the killer and the map.

At first I was like, "nah", and later I was like, "ehhh?", But now I'm like, (sighing) "yaaahhh"…

You feel me bruv?

I've seen it maybe twice total but I think the general rule of thumb for any new "meta" perk is that nobody ever seems to use it, regardless of whether or not it's actually busted. Now I do think that conviction needs to be nerfed because it just isn't healthy in it's current state, however combined with plot twist in it's current state it is quite powerful.

oops double post

How

Others have already answered this, but I'll throw a couple of points on.

A lot of the video is a non-sequitur to the title. He talks about the merits of rewarding skill expression (skill floor vs skill ceiling) and whether it is good or bad that some things are made easier and more accessible. That's basically a discussion on a different topic.

On skill expression he also makes the mistake many players do of only being able to judge the survivors off what they see. Survivors do have perks that are high risk / high reward, but if you only focus on the time that survivors pull it off you're missing the point. It would be like watching a few minutes of a basketball game and seeing a team not miss a single 3 pointer and concluding 3 pointers are too strong. You need to take the entire picture into account, successes and failures, and be aware that streaks of everything going right, or wrong, will happen.

Perks: he doesn't address a few of the major things here. Perks are primarily what the survivors have to make them distinct. Killers have powers that provide them uniqueness. With 40 killers and only one type of survivor, perks on killer are always going to face the fact that if a killer perk is broken on even a single killer, then the perk is broken.

Additionally, when he lays out what the survivors can do, there's lots of 'ifs' (he does touch on the randomness issue a bit). You can bring a strong anti-tunnel build, but if someone else is tunneled, nothing to help. You can bring anti-slug, but if not slugged, useless. Lots of his examples of builds survivors can run actually highlight how many strategies killers have and the difficulty of survivors on trying to guess what they might run into.

Then you have things like exhaustion and healing perks. Yes, survivors have lots of options, but primarily because BHVR has made them extremely hard to stack in meaningful ways. Once upon a time it was just 'run dead hard' on the exhaustion front, now survivors have a lot of viable options because DH was heavily nerfed. That is not an improvement to survivor in strength, though it does make for a healthier game.

On the other hand, killer perks usually stack, so you can run 4 gen regression, or 4 aura read, or all hex, etc.

And on the issue of gen regression perks since 6.1, the meta at the time was overpowered and incredibly stale. Yes, many things have been nerfed since then, but it was desperately needed.

Hook stages: he compares these to gen times, which BHVR has also down, but they aren't close to equal. Unless the killer is camping, leaving the survivor on hook is always going to be a bad idea. On the other hand, 10 extra seconds is a minimum of 50 extra charges the survivors have to complete. One was an absolute nerf to survivors in literally every game, one was a nerf to killers in limited situations (which is how a lot of killer nerfs go, 3 genning, AFC, etc. are nerfs in situational circumstances).

Basically: like a lot of these takes, he compares unalike things. He imagines a killer playing a weaker killer hitting a survivor team running all meta and that meta being executed against the strategy the killer pursues. But that's not a fair comparison. If you want to talk about the extreme maximum sweatiness end of things, you have to do it for both sides.

Patrolling gens and going after the weakest Survivors in chase is always the strongest strat when we steamroll. Not that tunneling a Survivor off hook and slugging everyone who comes to help isn't just as effective either. But I agree that a lot of this is disingenuous. Because the cheesiest strats only work 90% of the time and not 100%, it's an issue and Survivor needs to foot the bill.

I sympathise with those who feel like their matches have become harder, but I can’t say I’ve noticed any difference. The only hindrances I’ve had to playing killer in recent months have been queue times and bugs. Game balance feels much the same.

I hear people cite Shoulder The Burden and Conviction a lot as reasons why the game is harder now, but truthfully I don’t see these perks ever. I’ve seen Conviction maybe twice since the Chapter released, and I don’t remember the last time I saw Shoulder.

If anything, I find that it has been the other way around, where survivor matches are getting harder for some reason.

And these statements are very true. Also, don't forget Friends till the End. Arguably the most overpowered killer perk nowadays, especially on high mobility killers, who can abuse it. - 12 seconds aura read when combined with Lethal Pursuer.
As for killer matches, I have not noticed too much of a difference. They are consistent for me

My own recent personal stats say that no, Killer is not harder (at least not for me). I have an average Kill rate of 58.68%, which of course includes Killers that I enjoy playing but I am not very good at.

That said, I think if I were to dip my toe into 1V4 Killer right now I would most likely get wrecked by my opponents. Probably because most of the Survivors I typically face are all playing 2V8 right now (where I'm also winning most of my Killer games). I often find that whenever a more casual game mode comes along to split the queues, the MMR system completely breaks down and this sometimes results in harder games for both Killer and Survivor. And with experience, I've learned the times that it's best not to play at all if I'm not in the mood for a challenge (e.g. any time past 10 PM is a sweat fest).

I think split queues and playing at unusual hours can make it feel like "X side is harder", when the reality is that the MMR system doesn't have enough players queuing up to function properly. I would never claim to be a high level player of either role, but that shouldn't matter if the MMR system is functioning as it should be. Roughly speaking, over time I should be able to get close to the intended 60/40% success rate for both Killer and Survivor. That's what an MMR system is designed to do, after all. If that's not happening for most players, then BHVR have work to do.

All talk about balancing the game for "high MMR" as suggested in the pixel bush video is for the birds in my opinion, because I don't think it can be done without creating imbalances for the majority of middle and low ranking players. I don't see how there could ever be parity between a SWF on comms and SoloQ or Trapper and Billy or Nintendo Switch and PC. But that's really a discussion way above my pay grade and if you have any ideas, perhaps you should be working for BHVR, because they don't seem able to do it either.

In any case, I don't think there is much to worry about. Killer is in the best spot it's ever been in (at least since I started playing in early 2023).

Im getting quite opposite when they find the killer I play is ghoul,knight or clown their gen efficiency goes through the roof and with full meta build I have hard time stopping gens because they sweat more than against killer they dont despice.

People should never just insta unhook I see this happen in lobby's and when I am playing surv its really annoying when you do that. When someone is on hook they are INVINCIBLE and cannot be touched anymore meaning you can leave them there untill last second to pull and the killer cannot stop you. The only time you pull early is if a second person goes down but at that point you are already failing horribly and the killer is demolishing your team or if you know the killer is somewhere else and cannot stop the unhooker.

But the only two states you're describing here are 'do not unhook ever', but if you do that and the killer gets a second down before you've unhooked, you immediately switch to 'you should've already unhooked'.

Yeah, obviously hookbombing is bad, but leaving someone on hook also maximises the killer's pressure and slowdown. So many people insist that the best thing for killer to do is to make it 1v3 as fast as possible, but when the hook timers are mentioned, it's paradoxically also best for survivors to maximise the 1v3 time?

The only perks that can even have any kind of failure factor om that level would be Shoulder the burden, Deliverance, Background Player, Dead Hard and Conviction (If you don't have a build for it). Meanwhile you have perks that are so easy if effortless to pull of like Vigil, WIGLF, Lithe, DS, Unbreakable, OTR, Resurgence, MTF, Soul Guard, Do no harm, Finesse, Dramaturgy, Deja Vu and Last Stand.

The video you linked spends a huge amount of time disagreeing with you and goes into detail on how survivor perks are strong with practice.

But its also missing the broader point of what it takes to make a perk useful. Take WGLF, let's say a survivor follows a chase to get in position to use it. They give up gen time to try and get the rescue. If they get spotted or don't get to the down before the pick up, they've wasted valuable time. Even if they do get the pick up, but were off gens for a lot of time, it can easily be harmful. If you only look at the action of the pick up it looks easy with little trade offs, but misses the larger context that it takes to deploy the perk.

Then you have perks like unbreakable. Again, easy to use when downed, but the usefulness is highly dependent on how the killer plays and easy to have a trial where it gets no value.

Then there are perks that always get value, such as Deja Vu, but not nearly as much value as a perk that is more situational or requires more skill.

But a lot of what separates the low tier players from higher tier players is game sense and what to follow up on, when to reset, when to commit to a gen, when to save someone.

Game sense is one of the few things in the game that is true for both sides. When to pursue a chase, what gen to go to, which survivor to chase, are what separates low tier and high tier killer players as well. It really has no bearing on this issue.

you cannot compare the state of exhaustion perks to old dead hard a perk that literally was a get out of jail free card 

Not only can you, you have to. You can't compare how things have changed and just ignore the 'get out of jail free' card that survivors used to have.

Also no improvements since?

That's not what I said. Nerfing DH made other exhaustion perks actually viable, making it look like survivors had more good perks. That was an improvement in game design, but if old DH returned all of those perks would suddenly look pointless.

Allot of surv perks do stack in meaningful ways.

Missing that I was discussing exhaustion and healing (which the video focused on), which have self limiting factors. Just because survivors have multiple options in these categories doesn't have a huge impact on balance, they make for a more fun game, but whether survivors had three good exhaustion perks or seven is not a huge issue because they're only going to run one (and if they had a broken perk like old DH that would override the variety really quickly).

So when surv perks get nurfed its "Now there is nothing left to use" when that is clearly wrong.

Strawman.

You also get more tunnelling and camping to boot since going for multiple hooks is now detrimental to you all it leaves the killer with is to tunnel, camp slug even harder than before.

Except that's not true. That was the argument for the strong gen defense era, but tunneling and camping where just as prevalent then, if not more, because the gen defense made the tunnel even easier.

If you insta pull me in a public game like that im going myers mori you as dwight for it.

This has nothing to do with the 10 extra seconds on hook argument.

There is a giant chasm between an insta pull and getting past the 60 seconds of the old hook states.

But if you look at the bigger picture the role as whole as gotten far worse if you are not playing these top 5 killers and with every new update its only getting worse.

Except the bigger picture needs both a start date and to factor everything in. We're talking survivors losing things like DH (twice), MFT, the ability to heal in chase, etc. This actually was something I noticed in the video where he briefly discussed the killer improvements he actually liked, but then ignored those as he hyper focused the discussion on clown.

The only perks that can even have any kind of failure factor om that level would be Shoulder the burden, Deliverance, Background Player, Dead Hard and Conviction (If you don't have a build for it). Meanwhile you have perks that are so easy if effortless to pull of like Vigil, WIGLF, Lithe, DS, Unbreakable, OTR, Resurgence, MTF, Soul Guard, Do no harm, Finesse, Dramaturgy, Deja Vu and Last Stand.

"The video you linked spends a huge amount of time disagreeing with you and goes into detail on how survivor perks are strong with practice."

The time I spent talking about these perks was about the failure rate trying to use it not the perk itself but the person using it. Besides that is was about how most perks don't really have any massive drawback or in the case of STB not enough. Even then the whole point I made was counter to you saying they are high risk high reward when that is not the case.

Also when it comes to WIGLF in the video he used it Infront of the killer most of the time and got value from it if that does not scream too easy then what does?

Deja Vu prevents 3 gens which is pretty strong to say otherwise is insane, 4th most used perk for a good reason (While requiring nothing to activate ).

In the video he said this.

"Once upon a time it was just 'run dead hard' on the exhaustion front, now survivors have a lot of viable options because DH was heavily nerfed. That is not an improvement to survivor in strength, though it does make for a healthier game.

"On the other hand, killer perks usually stack, so you can run 4 gen regression, or 4 aura read, or all hex, etc."

"That's not what I said. Nerfing DH made other exhaustion perks actually viable, making it look like survivors had more good perks. That was an improvement in game design, but if old DH returned all of those perks would suddenly look pointless."

"Not only can you, you have to. You can't compare how things have changed and just ignore the 'get out of jail free' card that survivors used to have."

All exhaustion perks were viable before deadhard most just picked the easiest option. Yes if you gave back press E to avoid all damage and dash is would be best over night but I would also imagine the rate of hexes would go up if we got TOTH and Ruin at there best back as well but these do not get brought up as original ruin was out of line. The reason I say you cant compare them is due to function being something that cannot exist as its too strong.

"Game sense is one of the few things in the game that is true for both sides. When to pursue a chase, what gen to go to, which survivor to chase, are what separates low tier and high tier killer players as well. It really has no bearing on this issue."

Yes it does. When talking about game balance you need to assume a level of play to focus so a medium competent level, you are expected in a balance discussion to have an idea how to play the game.

"Missing that I was discussing exhaustion and healing (which the video focused on), which have self limiting factors. Just because survivors have multiple options in these categories doesn't have a huge impact on balance, they make for a more fun game, but whether survivors had three good exhaustion perks or seven is not a huge issue because they're only going to run one (and if they had a broken perk like old DH that would override the variety really quickly)."

I went over exhaustion already in terms of stacking, the video went on about how perks interlock with each other.

But if you need more examples for healing .

First just to lay ground rules when you increase healing is the amount of charges you do per second not reducing them so it has diminishing returns.

But at base survs heal 16sec/charges lets say you have We'll make it and just unhooked someone that cuts the time down to 8 as you heal at 2c/sec but then lets add Do no Harm to the mix and just to make things easy say it someone on death hook so 100% for a combined 200% extra speed so thats 3c/sec that comes to 5.33 secs so stacking that high is not necessary so most just run one or two healing perks to make things easier.

Anyway about perk to run Resurgence on it own is super powerful Do no harm is also great on its own but can be run with botany for extra efficiency, if you want to devote your whole build to healing Empathetic connection + We'll make it/Botany + Desperate measures/Do no harm and depending on what's more important to you Strength in shadows/Solidarity/Resurgence a really solid SoloQ build have personally had allot of success with.

But all this boils down to allot of healing that makes it so injuries do not provide any pressure or next to none for the time invested getting it.

So when surv perks get nurfed its "Now there is nothing left to use" when that is clearly wrong.

"Strawman."

Strawman but does not include the second bit hmm. And you said yourself

"Then you have things like exhaustion and healing perks. Yes, survivors have lots of options, but primarily because BHVR has made them extremely hard to stack in meaningful ways. Once upon a time it was just 'run dead hard' on the exhaustion front, now survivors have a lot of viable options because DH was heavily nerfed. That is not an improvement to survivor in strength, though it does make for a healthier game."

"On the other hand, killer perks usually stack, so you can run 4 gen regression, or 4 aura read, or all hex, etc."

"And on the issue of gen regression perks since 6.1, the meta at the time was overpowered and incredibly stale. Yes, many things have been nerfed since then, but it was desperately needed."

"Hard to stack meaningfully" "Not an improvement" "Killer perks stack" "The killer perk nurfs where desperately needed"

This shows you do not think that there has been meaningful improvement with surv perks and that they do not stack meanwhile killer perks are easy to stack and provide value when that is not true.

Not all hexs provide the value to your build, some gen regression/defence perks conflict and not all aura reading is acquired the same way and may be better for some worse for others.

You also get more tunnelling and camping to boot since going for multiple hooks is now detrimental to you all it leaves the killer with is to tunnel, camp slug even harder than before.

"Except that's not true. That was the argument for the strong gen defense era, but tunneling and camping where just as prevalent then, if not more, because the gen defense made the tunnel even easier."

Ok if that's the case why do people not run DS, OTR or Reassurance more often? Despite is being so common? Nightlight shows that these perks that hard counter tunnelling dont have as high pick rate to reflect that.

Even in the video he talks about bringing STB a lot and getting value out of it even with solos.

If you insta pull me in a public game like that im going myers mori you as dwight for it.

"This has nothing to do with the 10 extra seconds on hook argument."

"There is a giant chasm between an insta pull and getting past the 60 seconds of the old hook states."

Besides the clear memeing. Its an exaggeration saying that you dont pull to early as you may be giving the killer free reign to interrupt and possibly get back to hook and tunnel. With the old 60 sec system you had to be in position to unhook quicker but now with the extra time it make proxying more risky as well as giving someone more time in "time out" before being back in the game and be able to die again.

But if you look at the bigger picture the role as whole as gotten far worse if you are not playing these top 5 killers and with every new update its only getting worse.

"Except the bigger picture needs both a start date and to factor everything in. We're talking survivors losing things like DH (twice), MFT, the ability to heal in chase, etc. This actually was something I noticed in the video where he briefly discussed the killer improvements he actually liked, but then ignored those as he hyper focused the discussion on clown."

6.1.0 is the start date and we hit critical mass in the FNAF chapter(9.0.0). Again it was slow and gradual and nothing was even noted until around Dracula's chapter so if you want a date of when you would start to feel it it would be 8.2.0.

The reason Clown was brought up was due to it being recent but even then he talks about Huntress, Singularity and Vecna being made easier but not more powerful as the range of their capability's is about the same. And going back to clown his old rework when they first added the yellow bottles is a good rework allowing for play he was not able to do before hand.

Killers also lost odd meta perks now and then like Thrill of the Hunt which is again brought up in the video.

Your whole speal reads like your trying to find the wrong points or take thing out of context.

So I'm only going to do this a final time.

You are the last person who should be speaking.

Someone just tried to defend ghoul and instead of trying you just went full reddit mode and went "INVALID OPINION DETECTED"

So when it comes to bias at least im trying to explain rather then just say nope and stop, if anyone's opinion deserves consideration yours is the last.

killer has been harder for years but fnaf made it so that people can't quit as easily and because killer objective takes way longer than the survivor objective killers have to slug tunnel and proxy in order to secure a win because killers don't like losing

with the changes preventing dc's survivors just have to put in slightly more effort than drooling on a keyboard and they win way more games