http://dbd.game/killswitch
Hear me out, I actually think that the update is good
So, if you have ever seen me around these forums, you know that I'm the biggest advocate for killer rights, and 9 times out of 10 I have criticism to how the devs have been handholding survivors all the time since Skull Merchant got her first rework. That being said, I actually think that the update the devs announced might actually be good for the game overall, but it will all depend on a single number
Hear me out. The main reason killers tunnel is to get rid of someone as quickly as possible. It is fundamental to do that because otherwise the generators just fly and you can't do anything about it, so with 1 survivor dead efficiency goes down by 25%. With that in mind, there is currently no incentive to hook multiple survivors, this update kinda fixes it by giving killers benefits and tools to juggle between targets.
The first one is BBQ and Chilli basekit, which should you help go for other people immediately after a hook. The second is the removal of collision for unhooked survivors, meaning they can't use their protection offensively. The third, and the most important one is the Pop Goes the Weasel effect, which I will get back to it later.
Sure, the survivor side also got a lot of buffs as well. The first one is the endurance + silent mode + haste. However, that doesn't sound as different from our Off the Record. The thing is, OTR is already a perk that you see ALL THE TIME, so in practice, all that means is that survivors essentially got an extra perk slot. Don't get me wrong, Off the Record is still busted when comparing to everything else, but having it now as killer is vs having it as basekit alongside other killer buffs + no bodyblock I do think that the latter takes the cake.
There is more though, as survivors got another buff. Now they receive a repair speed boost if a survivor dies before the 6th hook, and the killer can no longer regress generators or block them if a survivor dies regardless. The thing is that the meta now may be getting 8 hooks (two on each survivor) before killing them, since it allows you to the most Pop Goes the Weasel uses. And then when the first dies you use your base BBQ to rush and kill all the last survivors. Needless to say, this ideal scenario sounds more healthy for both sides than what we have now, where killers need to tunnel because gen speed is that crazy and gen defence perks have been essentially deleted, but they can't do so because tunnel defense perks are absolutely overtuned.
However, there is a small variable that will decide if this update is good or not, which is the basekit Pop Goes the Weasel regression value. If the regression is something like 30% of the total generator chargers, then we are looking into an excellent update and probably the end of tunneling for good. On the other side, if the value is 10% of current generator or something stupid, then the game will become more unplayable for killer than ever. I think that the minimum should be 20% of total generator charges to compensate for the other killer nerfs.
As it is now, I will wait and see the numbers that come with this update before making the final judgement, but for now, it looks like a really good update.
Comments
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bbq base is useless it only helps with killers with mobility since they are the only ones who can capitalize on that information unlike an m1 which takes far longer collision removal also doesn't do that much and is wayyyy worse if you're facing a swf
survivors should have never gotten any buffs they honestly should have been nerfed into the ground and making otr base means they can swap it out for some other perk like when bt was originally made base
1 pop is garbage and has always been since 6.1.0 so having a buff to survivors where if a survivor dies to early you auto lose you do realize that survivors can just pre drop and extend chase right not to mention while all this is happening other survivors are doing gens so if you take to long you lose so you're going to get punished for not playing the high tiers exclusively a
also with this base pop it's probably going to be trash because the 8 kick regression still exists btw and survivors can keep pressuring a gen and you lose on top of these changes
honestly reading this you sound like you're a survivor main or haven't touched high mmr
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1. They never mentioned if the base Pop will have a time limit to use it.
2. They never mentioned if the base Pop is gonna be total generator charges like pre 6.1.0 or current generator progression like the current version. As I said, it will all depend on how the set the base Pop. Imagine 30% or more of total generator charges. That could actually compensate for the other nerfs.
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Also, about the BBQ and Chilli, they did not mention if there is a minimum range limit to revealing a survivor. So it might be that it will reveal even the survivors that are close to you, making it useful for low mobility killers.
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I play both roles.
I'm anti-tunneling so as killer I'm completely happy so far. Basekit is being buffed. I'm getting mini perks for free. I'm finally being rewarded for playing fair. I'll have to see how gameplay goes, but so far I see no negatives if you aren't using cheese tactics. I actually excited to play killer more now.
On the flipside, as survivor I'm getting the worst issues addressed: tunneling and slugging. BUT as a sneaky gen jockey, my own personal playstyle might be negatively affected. I might be forced to improve at chase. And I'm okay with that if I can avoid spending the game on the ground or getting stuck spectating with an 8k score.
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On the other side, if the value is 10% of current generator or something stupid, then the game will become more unplayable for killer than ever. I think that the minimum should be 20% of total generator charges to compensate for the other killer nerfs.I mean this really depends on how big the gen speed boost is. If the speed boost is small, and the pop bonus is small, the game will probably play out mostly like it currently does.
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Yeah, that is true. I honestly think that the killer experience has reached rock bottom, so the only way now is up.
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As someone who plays both roles I like the general idea behind most of it but until we see actual numbers, it's hard to say if it's going to be awful, good or meh. We've had plenty of times where people were doom-posting over nothing without knowing the numbers and such.
I think the worst part is the Myers changes. Switching between tiers is great but giving him Pig dash is way out there. I don't even care about more dashslop as people call it, I just don't think it fits Myers. I always thought Myers should get more effects on survivors that he's stalked with the obsession getting special attention or bonus effects.5 -
It'd be kind of neat if they added something like Doctor's insanity if he gets Survivors to panic enough.
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Yeah, i dont think it'll be as bad as people think. The devs still want a 60% average killrate (and let's be honest, most regular players have higher than this - new players who try a killer once or twice then give up likely bring the overall average down) and that wont change. This will give them the opportunity to better address individual killers and adjust as needed. Some people claim they "need" to tunnel, well, if that's universally true then the devs will see the falling kill rates and your killer of choice will get buffed. That's a win.
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If you think this gen kick is going to be more than 5-10%, then I have a bridge to sell you.
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I would agree with you 100%. I definitely want to see this on the PTB and test it :D
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It is important to have hope at least.
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Lol at you getting downvoted just for wanting to try the new thing.
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Yeah I think all these "let's wait for the numbers" guys are going to be a little disappointed as you just know killers are going to get some token buff that will not be enough to reward all these forced play changes.
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The problem is, the only way to make this gen kick as powerful as tunneling used to be would be to make it like 40% or something. That's not going to happen. We all know that's not going to happen.
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The only opinion I have is that 6 hook states seems a bit harsh. Should lower it to 5 and see how that plays out.
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Ofc it's good for the game, you shouldn't lose automatically because the "weak link" was tunneled out of the match, and now 3 people are stuck in a lost game until death with very little chance of escape, this is exactly what makes survivor miserable
you can still tunnel btw it's not removed, but you get basekit buffs if you don't and survivors get bonus repair speed if you do, seems totally fair I don't get the crying but i'm not surprised
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and the killer can no longer regress generators or block them if a survivor dies regardless.
That's not how I read it. IIRC, this one kick is if the survivor getting killed was also the last one to be hooked.
So if surv A is on death hook, gets pulled off the hook, and then you immediately hunt, down and mori him, it kicks in.
But if surv A is on death hook, you hook survivor B, C, or D, and THEN mori A, it doesn't.
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I agree that its a good update. I play both sides so i tend to avoid all that they are trying to remove anyway. And now can be rewarded for doing so. Itl make playing casual killer so much better. And survivor doesnt have to suffer from killers that just reallllly don't care and want to win before a generstor goes off.
I currently main dracula and im also looking forword to the hellfire buffs as it usualy feels like u get 1 shot then have to play as wolf for a while. But that wolf pounce charge delay is going to break allot of teeth off windows i think
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This is how I feel too, I'm really excited as a killer player getting to play how I want to.
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Putting aside feelings and thoughts about the update, I’ve got to hand it to BHVR, they've shown they are still willing to make big changes, even knowing there would be an outcry about it. I really didn't think they had it in them anymore.
Post edited by PleaseRewind on7 -
I think they're backtracking on the 60%.
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They should
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I think most of your post is reasonable. I disagree with the 30% that sounds problematic, but the thing is, neither of us know. All of the changes at once are going to require some testing and iterations to get to a result that makes the games feel good (or at least better) for both sides.
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Literally. How dare I want to test this on the PTB. lol.
To be fair I get downvoted for something as simple as wanting a new skin for Pirate Mommy 🤣
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knowing the devs it'll function like bbq instead of floods to prevent camping so you'll leave the hook
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This! I feel that part of the reason this update is going to be so great for the game as a whole and both roles is because of this. A killer should not be forced to play one specific way to be viable. If they are forced to rely on it in order to maintain their killrates, then it’s holding them back from getting actual benefits and buffs that they need. It’s a win for everyone.
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I don't think basekit Pop should be stronger than actual Pop. The max I'd imagine it being is 10-15%, maybe a bit higher if it's current progress over total.
The OP notes we don't know if there's a time limit to use the basekit pop. If there isn't, then there's no way to justify a total 30% damage you can use at will.
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I'm going against the grain as well and saying the update isn't nearly as bad as some people claim, even if I can see Sadako being negatively impacted.
That said, there are VERY good arguments against it if you dig deep enough. SWF sacrificing solos for repair speed, early Mori's for bad survivor plays being negatively impacted, lose/lose scenarios if survivors find hook deadzones, etc.
HOWEVER, for the overall health of this game? This is an update that should have been done years ago, before a lot of the current meta was established. We're more up at arms about it because we're so used to playing specific ways, and even I am worried about gen speeds outpacing methodically choosing and picking chases as to not kill before 6 hooks, but it's a step in the right direction.
Now, will BHVR make the needed adjustments based on the PTB? That worries me given their recent track record.2 -
"HOWEVER, for the overall health of this game? This is an update that should have been done years ago, before a lot of the current meta was established"
It's funny, I was thinking to myself earlier that it's kind of odd that we are looking at this sort of update so late in the game. We are literally in the 10th year and only now have they decided to address probably the most frequently complained about strat since the game's conception. Why now and not years ago? The only conclusion I could come to is that maybe people are dropping survivor at a faster rate than they're being replaced. Kind of like how update 6.1.0 is considered a response to people dropping killer, i wonder if this is the flipside happening.
Obviously that's just my theory, I have no actual evidence to support this.
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I still think the constant separation of queues due to new game modes has been effecting the survivor lobbies, since every time I've played when there isn't a 2v8 or a new map showcase queue killer gets the bonus, but that's neither here nor there.
Regardless, you are right in saying why now. Hooks have always been a flawed system and should have been addressed a long time ago. I personally believe the real issue was BHVR never had a clear identity with how DBD should be played, ever since they pivoted from 'hide and seek' to looping. Then, with their constant content updates, they stretch themselves thin on improving the core gameplay, issues pile up, and of course licenses needing to be made within a specific timeframe due to contracts, I would also assume but take that with a grain of salt.
It's going to be a very interesting update regardless for both sides.1 -
Nah, if it is only 10 or 15% then killer is dead. The whole for tunneling is to control gen speed which is absolutely insane at the moment and makes the game unplayable. If base Pop isn't a big value, then removing tunneling altogether from the game will be a mistake.
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nope if you want global killer buffs then you want to nerf tunneling first they're doing the right thing, first nerf tunneling > then check the stats if killer is really as weak as you claim they can adjust generators
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I’m going to wait until I see it before I fully judge it, but I do want to say that I think the base kit BBQ change might in the long run make it HARDER to find someone after hooking them.
Why? Because now you know that every killer is going to see you when they hook you, so you can just jump into a locker when they hook them to avoid it. Unlike now where people don’t bother with it since you don’t know the killer can see you.
Once people realise they can just hide in a locker to avoid it, it will become non existent. Unless they make it work in lockers somehow.
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What I really hate about this anti-tunneling change is the fake hook UI. I don't want the game to lie to me like that.
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