http://dbd.game/killswitch
Punishing killers for completing their objective?
So killer is getting severely punished for completing their objective? I get that being tunneled sucks, and I personally try to avoid it, but if the same survivor is playing poorly/annoyingly and constantly coming into contact with me, I shouldn’t have to pretend I don’t see them like I’m playing hide and seek with a 3 year old.i could understand adding the survivor buffs that help escape unhook scenarios, but adding the severe handicapping of a killer if they tunnel is just going to turn those defensive buffs into offensive weapons to use against the killer without fear of ramifications. I am supposed to hunt and hook survivors, why am I being told not to do my objective? When will they do the same for survivors? Having three gens pop as the first hook is happening is just as unfun as being tunneled but you can’t fault the survivors for working toward their objective. When do we get the update of free ruin if they pop 2 gens within a minute of each other? Why not automatically kick survivors off gens and prevent them from being worked on for 90 seconds when one gets completed? Just seems drastically tone deaf to say “your sole objective is to hook survivors, but don’t do it too well or I’m going to kneecap you so the survivors don’t have to learn how to play the game better”.
Comments
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I just think its a slap in the face to a lot of the killer roster. Ghost Face was already really weak. But then you can't make it a 3v1 early or else you're SUPER punished because believe it or not making the kick 7.5-10% while getting 5-10% haste for unique hooking is NOT enough of a catch up for a killer like that. You have to play around so many base kit mechanics already and even more are being added for killers to get a slight buff for unique hooking when multiple killers simply can not go for unique hooks. Even Otz has said there simply isn't enough time on certain killers to go for 6 hooks before sacrificing someone.
You get people saying "this can lead to certain killers being buffed!" the problem I have with this is that you can't exactly buff a lot of killers without making them severely annoying to go against. Imagine if doctors static blast was suddenly a 15-20 second cooldown and his shocks hindered you by 5% oh and his movement speed during shock is now 4.2 m/s. These would just make going against doc very unfun.
Also the fact you can probably run Breakdown with the offering that increases the distance between hooks and force unfun scenarios where you pick me up after tunneling me and I wiggle out or you leave me and I get base kit unbreakable for the rest of the game.11 -
I said this already. I agree I think its dumb that Killers are being told not to kill when that's there job
This reminds me kinda of the go next prevention system fail when new survivor players where getting punished for being bad at the game (note it was kill switched immediately) all over again
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Imagine you're playing a shooter, right? An infamously disliked weapon archetype in shooters is shotguns, because they tend to have really high burst damage (sometimes 1-shotting) and require less aim than other weapons. It's generally not fun being blown away by another player that's sitting around a corner or from a range that seems unreasonable for the archetype.
Imagine if, instead of just nerfing the shotguns if they become too problematic/unfun to go against (reducing range, damage, reload, ammo capacity, etc etc) or changing the gameplay structure through additional levers (map design, items that reveal or otherwise flush out people hiding around corners, damage reduction/shield abilities, or making other archetypes simply perform better at a higher level of play) such that shotguns have a niche, but aren't universally effective, imagine they instead made it so that when you use a shotgun you were actively, directly punished for it on a meta level. Maybe you get less points for kills, maybe you give the enemy team a buff to their point gain when they kill you, maybe your entire team gets some sort of inherent penalty that makes it harder to win the game. Something absurd like that.
That's essentially what they're doing with the punishing aspects of this anti-tunnel update. It's extremely bad game design, to the point where it sounds like a child making up rules about a tried and true game like tag on the spot. It reminds me of my niece when she says "this is base, you can't get me here" halfway through an activity. I think we should expect BHVR to think more logically than children, no?
Post edited by ControllerFeedback on10 -
ok then only one survivor can work on any gen at any one time with no immunities
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You dont need to fear killer is still a option, well only some of them if you dont want to overthink your gameplay and have chance to hook good survivors one after another then ghoul,billy,larry.blight or dracula and few others are still option. If you want to have hard chalange as killer and trying to pull ouff the miricle against good survivors (on some killers this is same as tody like trapper or merchant) then there are some killers which will sweat to get 2k or even 3k like trapper,ghostface,skullmerchant or legion.
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People seem to forget that these changes aren't live and aren't going to be live for another month, I get being upset, but 50 posts about the entire patch because of ONE line that's bound to be changed before release is unnecessary.
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I'm really surprised that people don't get the obvious point you are making.
Survivors have an objective to complete and a few different ways to approach it. There are pros and cons to the different approaches and BHVR has nerfed strategies that have been detrimental to the game.
Killers have an objective to complete and a few different ways to approach it. BHVR is finally looking at the one that is radically bad for the game. It's not going to force people to play in a certain way, its something that is a core part of the game (or any game for that matter).
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The killer's objective is to kill survivors, not tunnel a single person out. You can kill the survivors without tunneling.
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didnt concide anything. yea and now killers are going to be punished for doing their objective
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I didn't think you understand this mechanic.
Because even if you're tunneling, you still get free BBQ and pop until that survivor dies.
The only time this mechanic comes into play at all is if there are 6 hooks or less total, and the survivor who dies was also the most recently hooked survivor.
So you can literally trade, hook survivors 1, 1, 2, 1, kill someone off, have zero downsides, and get free buffs at the same time.
Just because you can't turn your brain off and follow the first moving thing you see to death without.. strategy... Doesn't mean this is going to have a big impact.
Every single aspect of this mechanic is completely in the killers control.
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what has survivor gotten thats akin to this, please tell me
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I'll give it a go off the top of my head:
Survivors are penalized by trying to tunnel a gen by losing gen progress
Each time they complete an objective, it becomes harder to advance their overall objective as the killer has less to defend
Survivors have actually had strategies wiped out (i.e. forced to play) such as going for WTP+BU plays or unbreakable builds (the fix for the latter not just addressing the issue, but giving the killer more strong hook locations)
Survivors lose access to some of their strongest perks and AFC in end game, even though all they did was complete their objective, making it easier for the killer to secure a kill
Windows block after three vaults even though all the survivor is doing is their objective of staying away from the killer
Killers gain bloodlust, again even though again the survivor is just doing what they are supposed to.
Most of those were/are good for the game, but let's not act like the killer doesn't gain benefits just when the survivors are doing well.
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I do, i've read the patch notes
they didnt say how much the pop will give and the BBq only reveals survivors with less or equal hook states
this takes away the killers freedom of you to chase, especially if all four survivors are the same character and wearing the same skins
these buffs arent permanent and are lessened for The Blight, The Dark Lord, The Ghoul, The Hillbilly, and The Nurse.
killer's brains are never turned off, even when their tunneling. We follow the first thing survivor we see cause thats what were suppose to do, chase/hit/down/hook. I get it you hate going against smart killers, thats why you hate and demonize the word "strategy". we'll see what impact it has when it goes live
No, the killer doesnt have any control with this mechanic besides the way you survivors want us too.
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Survivors are penalized for tunneling a single gen because they can lose progress. They often focus on the first gen they see and ignore the map layout. For example, on MacMillan Estate, if you do gens on one side, you can lock yourself into a 3-gen. Do one gen on the other side and you likely win.
Each time survivors complete an objective, it becomes harder to advance the overall objective because the killer has less to defend. Early game, survivors have more pallets and loops, killers must break walls, and survivors control more of the map. As the game progresses and those resources disappear, killers get stronger. Would you want pallets to respawn after a set time to make it easier?
Survivors have had strategies removed, like WTP+BU plays or Unbreakable builds. The fix did more than address the issue. It also gave killers stronger hook locations. That happens across games, but killers also lose strategies, and many strong perks become useless.
Survivors lose access to some of their strongest perks and AFC in the endgame, even though they only completed their objective, which makes it easier for the killer to secure a kill. This is the same endgame survivors control the start of. It is also when survivors can choose to leave and avoid the killer.
Windows block after three vaults even though the survivor is only trying to stay away from the killer. Killers gain Bloodlust even though the survivor is still doing what they are supposed to do. Those were necessary. Otherwise many killers would never catch survivors, since several maps have issues.
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thats in no way the same thing. the map size reduction was because survivor kept complaining about facing mobile killers (blight/nurse/kaneki) so survivors did that to themselves. yea if your perkless with no toolbox, plus all you need to do is split up and do multiple gens.
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Would you want pallets to respawn after a set time to make it easier?Please see the end of my post:
Quote: Most of those were/are good for the game, but let's not act like the killer doesn't gain benefits just when the survivors are doing well.
That happens across games, but killers also lose strategies, and many strong perks become useless.I never said it didn't. My post it literally making that point that what is happening is not even remotely unique for this game or any game.
This is the same endgame survivors control the start of. It is also when survivors can choose to leave and avoid the killer.By not popping the final gen? Sure, killers control who they hit and who they don't pick up. Exact same thing then.
Those were necessary.Again, see the end of my post.
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if you're talking about the gen kick "catch up" survivors have to do that came after they nerf'd 3-gen strat. That also nerf'd gen-tapping and the 8 gen kick, survivor did ask for that.
I mean thats just the flow of the match. if you mean 3-genning then just spead your gens apart, not just do one next to the other back to back.
killers have lost some too. gen kick builds like brine/OC/erupt or m1 builds stbfl/surge (cant use m2 with these).
killers have also lost some of their strong perks, some that are a shadow of their former selves (Pop, Pain res, ruin, BBQ "the BP stacks", just to name a few). while killers can secure the kill its usually at the cost of 1 or more gens popping.
well the same goes for the gen blocking the killer after 8 kicks, the killer is doing what their supposed to do.
well not all killers have the same movement speed and even the survivor is doing what their supposed to do, some will loop the killer around pallet forever just to get the 100% pallet stun
yea but lets also not act like survivors arent able to get a 4man escape even when the killer plays well too.
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I'll say this final thing to those defending the anti-tunneling ptb:
How the killer plays shouldnt be up to the survivors, just as how the survivors play shouldnt be up to the killer. Both sides should be allowed to play how they want without being ridiculed for it.
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if you're talking about the gen kick "catch up" survivors have to do that came after they nerf'd 3-gen strat. That also nerf'd gen-tapping and the 8 gen kick, survivor did ask for that.That's not even one of my examples.
if you mean 3-genning then just spead your gens apart, not just do one next to the other back to back.Just spread out your hooks.
Or put another way: if survivors just taking the most obvious route to their objective comes with punishments, why is it a problem if the killer is held to the same standard?
well the same goes for the gen blocking the killer after 8 kicks, the killer is doing what their supposed to do.I never said there weren't other examples for killers. You wanted examples of survivors as if it didn't happen.
yea but lets also not act like survivors arent able to get a 4man escape even when the killer plays well too.And killers will still be able to 4k.
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It would seem many cannot, and they're going to make sure everyone knows about it.
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The main difference is that it is so deeply ingrained that it's a necessary part of the Killer's toolkit, which isn't entirely wrong. But the fear of it not being there when they need it the most leads to this iron fist approach that it needs to remain equally as strong when they don't need it at all, which is a real problem for any power role to have.
What gets me too is that there's always this mindset that Killer is the weakest and most pitiable role in the game, which leads to calls for everything else being nerfed before camping/tunneling/slugging. It's why we have to nerf gens (again) first. Or flashlights first. Or pallets first. Or SWF first. Everything has to go and yet if it were to go, we still couldn't address the big 3 without major backlash. I'd make a whataboutist point, but we've already seen all of that over the course of the last 3 years.
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*smart killers
*incapable of looking at the HUD to distinguish between people with similar cosmetics.
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And killers will still be able to 4k.
I don’t wanna lose the option to punish bad, dumb, super greedy, brazen, miserable survivor plays… without being punished myself and just handing them a free ride. Not happening. Not in my lobbies.
So yup, I’ll just stick to top killers running full meta. Straight tunnel at 5 gens
Anti-tunnel? Cute. Let’s see how far they make it.
Worst case, I’ll just slap on an anti-gen perk on Nurse.
Anti-slug? Heh, let’s run an experiment… how many times can you down the same survivor before they finally bleed out? :D Sounds fun, right?
We’re gonna have sooo much fun, aren’t we?
…aren’t we?
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There is no reason to panic just yet i doubt the changes will go live without major tweaks to them as they only have been announced for like a day and the backlash is getting pretty intense. If they do go live as they are right now i imagine the forums and twitter will look akin to a warzone
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I’m not panicking, I’ll adapt. Just kinda sucks, I was having a ton of fun with Sadako, Wraith (I love good M1 mindgames), and sometimes I even play killers like Hag or the super weak ones. I enjoy the challenge.
But if I’m not allowed to tunnel anymore? Easy answer: Nurse only. And I’ll play harder than ever before
Even if I get something on the side, a little ‘band-aid’ to make it not feel so bad when I’m the big bad tunneler… it’s still gotta be something strong. I want to be able to answer gens popping right in front of my face (into insta down from this surv) , sabo squads, people denying my very first hook with bodyblocks, syringes, whatver.. and wasting my time. Legit, those are good survivor plays, I’ll take it. But as killer I want to be allowed to answer accordingly.
And especially… even with the strongest killers: if I see three survivors in front of me – one showing me clean movement, another trying to drag me into main and flex how sexy main is, and one running completely lost straight into a dead zone – I don’t want to be forced to just ignore that bad player blindly. I’m not gonna accept that. In PvP games, that’s part of it: if you play bad, you die until you learn.
just don’t get it. Instead of survivors being punished for bad plays (super gen-greeding and going down for it instead of playing smart)… insta-unhooks, bad pathing, straight up bad movement in general – all the stuff that makes tunneling and slugging so tempting – it’s the killer who gets punished and told ‘you’re not allowed to
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I don’t wanna lose the option to punish bad, dumb, super greedy, brazen, miserable survivor plays… without being punished myself and just handing them a free ride. Not happening. Not in my lobbies.You can still punish bad plays.
Both sides make mistakes in games. Different mistakes have differing levels of penalties associated with them. I'm sure survivors thought it was great when killers made the mistake of chasing them into an infinite.
So yup, I’ll just stick to top killers running full meta. Straight tunnel at 5 gensYou still can, nothing is stopping you.
We’re gonna have sooo much fun, aren’t we?I mean you were tunneling before, and you're going to be tunneling now. You're apparently having fun, all the survivor experience can do from here is go up.
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Honestly, none of these changes should ever see the light of day
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You still can, nothing is stopping you.
And I will. And now not even just to win anymore. By now it’s mixed with other motivations.
I mean you were tunneling before, and you're going to be tunneling now. You're apparently having fun, all the survivor experience can do from here is go up.
Yup. I hard tunneled before… I had fun with Sadako, with Myers, sometimes even running meme builds
even played Hag once in a while (no one does that in high MMR). Good M1 chases are fun.
But y, Nurse is what the community keeps asking for.
So Nurse is my answer now.
I used to give groups some breathing room when I played something strong. That’s over now.
Congrats BHVR, you’ve created a game where the only right answer is Nurse.
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Instead of survivors being punished for bad plays (super gen-greeding and going down for it instead of playing smart)… insta-unhooks, bad pathing, straight up bad movement in general – all the stuff that makes tunneling and slugging so tempting
This is all post hoc rationalization. You're trying to say directly that tunneling is a reaction to working survivors do.
It's not, never has been.
Turning at 5 gens is simpler to execute than it is to counter. That makes it a highly effective "tactic" that either works and the killer wins, or, if the killer is not efficient enough then they will struggle and change everything other than their own gameplay, like you did here.
There is nothing simpler than chasing the first person you see into they die. There no strategy there, no giga brain tactic, and literally nothing to fall back on if it doesn't just work immediately. You can turn your brain off, play as inefficiently as you like, and never learn anything like game sense or game knowledge in the process.
You're literally just following game notifications around while interacting with the furniture while you wait. That's as deep as it gets for some people.
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I'll have to wait until we see the numbers to really gauge things, but for me it seems this is going to reward me for playing killer how I normally do, so I'm not super mad,
I don't tunnel and I don't leave people on the ground for more than a few seconds except in rare circumstances.
The problem is that too many killer players:
1. Can't win without tunneling or slugging2. Think they can't win without tunneling or slugging
3. Think winning 80-90% of their matches is or should be normal
If this update leads to shrinking of the pool of killer players winning 90%+ of their matches down to a tiny handful of the world's best players, that will be a very good thing for the game. IMO, re-calibrating to the point where very good players are winning 65-70% of their matches would be amazing, and taking away the shortcuts to easy domination is the best path to that.
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ooooh, gaslighting is it? how childish.
yea then they'll just be toxic survivors but we dont need to deal with them right?
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You do realize that this update will effect every killer BUT these ones, right?
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Can you post a link to the Greenville one you posted on Steam? Can't find it again.
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Killers will be getting huge buffs just for hooking survivors which is their job, this patch is a massive help for killers.
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We’re gonna have sooo much fun, aren’t we?
…aren’t we?
No one was having fun playing with you to begin with, so threatening to make the game 'unfun' is a very hollow threat.
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thank you survivor mains for the pretentious answers, but no you haven’t been “getting punished” for doing the objective. Sure they implemented a slowdown because if you could stack up and do a gen in 20 seconds the game wouldn’t be fun for anybody. But luckily for you I can provide an exact reciprocation of these rules and you still tell me if it sounds fun?
1. You can only work on 1 gen for 33% progression, then you have to go to another and you get minuscule buffs that won’t really help all that much.2. If you work on the same gen to 66% straight no buffs, but that gen will have backward skill checks/ no notification skill checks that make it harder to go.
3. If at any point in the match you complete the last ten that was worked on, you can no longer heal your teammates and the killer gains a haste boost.
Just spread gens guys, it’s not that hard and it’s actually very toxic of you to just sit there and work on one gen in the killers face.
But in all honesty I’m not interested in the opinion of people who never play killer so you actually have no understanding of what this is going to do for the game. But since you so obviously hate the game, you’re in luck, because these changes will fix the killer queue times by making killers leave the game in droves. Punishing one side because the other feels bad that they can’t just make bad/greedy plays over and over like their favorite twitch streamer without getting punished is not the way to “fix” a game. Especially when the side being punished is, by design of the game, supposed to be the “power role™️”. I think incentivizing killer to not tunnel with slight buffs, and enabling survivors to escape these situations easier would’ve been fine. But the dramatic punishment of killers for situations that can arise naturally in the game without tunneling is way too much, it over complicates the game making new killers less likely to have any amount of fun, and turns enables the survivors to be more greedy/toxic/bad with no repercussions.
TLDR: survivors are not being punished for completing their objective. no you’re not getting tunneled, you’re just bad at the game. Stop playing like your favorite streamer and learn to play smart. Most responders in this thread clearly have no idea how killer actually plays and I envy them. The incentivization to not tunnel and more survivor tunnel avoidance is fine, the punishments are too harsh and broad sweeping for non-tunneling situations. If these changes go out as is, the killer queue will be much shorter (yippy!), and BHVR will support other businesses by making the new Halloween game more popular no matter how bad it is. GLHV survivors! remember all your posts about how toxic killers are when there are none left.
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-2/10 ragebait my friend. Even toxic survivor only players aren’t so disconnected they think these “buffs” are massive for any killer except the ones who are already so trying they don’t need them anyway.
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People have been screaming for "incentives for hooking" and "more regression" for years.
Now that they give them to you, it's suddenly "nothing".
This community is Dead by Gaslight.
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The only ones being punished are the obnoxious minority who insist on tunnelling every single match as their only way to win games. This minority cause a massive amount of misery for the other 4 people in matches and it is long overdue to deal with this.
I never tunnelled so it wont affect me at all, in fact the majority of killers who don't tunnel will enjoy the benefits of how they always played anyway lol
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Survivors getting punished for completing their objective is standard fare. Remember how clearing five gens disables a bunch of stuff?
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I mean look at all the comments by these survivors mains, their not even making an effort to see things from our light but like you said most (if not all) never touched killer and if they have it was only at low mmr. trolling or entitled responses. It would be hilarious watching them all lose their minds if the devs decide not to go live with this 🤣
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I’m not toxic. I just choose to take the “punishment” from BHVR, because I don’t agree with it. Survivors play super poorly and create a massive problem — and the way it gets “fixed” is by punishing the killer for it.
So I’d rather play the strong killers where I feel I can play around the punishment, and just “compensate” for it with increased efficiency. ✨
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If these changes go live, I don't see how they can be made intuitive for new players. And this is already a very unintuitive game.
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The target shouldn't be too easy. I only see 90% wins for killers. It shouldn't be like that.
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I think that victories come very easily. I play for both sides.
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uh?
I mean… why?
It’s not a threat, it’s just a consequence.
Survivors asked for their goodies — they got their goodies — and they didn’t care that it ruined the killer experience for M1 killers and the weaker killers who have to rely on slugging and tunneling. They also didn’t care that it took away the killer’s ability to respond to certain survivor group plays.
Some lobbies were already brutal with the current killer kits, but still fun to play because I had my counter-pressure tools.
The survivor community didn’t care what that meant for killer gameplay — they wanted their goodies, they got them.
idk..
I’m fine with it. They got what they wanted. But I’m not going into matches just to lose and entertain certain survivor groups, giving them their free “ez tutorial killer and now watch me leave” moment at the exit. Nah. I’ll accept the change. I’ll adapt so that I can still have fun with the update myself.
and at the moment i just warm up for this a bit :D
But huh? Why does that make the game “unfun”? Survivors wanted the change, not me. I’m confused. Do they actually not enjoy what they asked for after all? They got their anti-tunnel, anti-slug, all of it. And still not happy? Just because the killer doesn’t play the way they want?
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They got what they wanted.
I play more survivor than killer these days, and I didn't want any of this. How do I opt out of this nonsense I didn't ask for and don't want in my matches? My teammates all go down in five seconds and die at 4 gens left, I'm used to it and it really is their fault for relying on sandbagging teammates and never bothering to actually get better at the game. We're getting to the point BHVR should just make killers NPCs if they want to take away the killer's ability to punish their opponents' mistakes.
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Which is exactly what this is. It's taking away the killer's ability to punish survivor mistakes. It's handholding at it's finest. It's saying, "Yeah, the Sable keeps trying to make the same dumb Head On play over and over, but you're not allowed to punish her for it." "Yeah, that Feng missed her flashlight save… AGAIN… but you're not allowed to punish her for it." "Yeah, Renato just keeps going back to the same gen area while he sucks at chase, but you're not allowed to punish him for it." "Yeah, they unhooked in your face, but you're not allowed to punish them for it."
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Yup. And god forbid you use slugging to stop them without killing them, because now they get infinite self-pick-up after 90 seconds. So that flashlight user you're trying to stop from preventing hooking others without killing said flashlight user gets rewarded for you playing by the game's rules.
This. Is. Borked.
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Yep. But it'll definitely hit live pretty much unchanged. Just like Clown, just like Fog Vials. (They actually buffed FV from PTB to release lol) They've been hyping up this anti-tunnel stuff for a year now, and it's something survivors have been whining about forever. There's no way they neuter it or delay it. The only way we'll see any changes is if it causes enough killers to not play the game that it affects survivor queues and BHVR's bottom line.
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