http://dbd.game/killswitch
what is the counter supposed to be to deadzone trolling with the slug change?
basekit exponential means that the boon can't be snuffed any more.
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Expo isn't basekit. Slugging still exists, you just can't count on it winning you the game if you take too long to clean it up.
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what does this have to do with the thread topic? you can go back and forth about the changes elsewhere
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Well, you asked and I gave you a answer. Expo isn't basekit, Tenacity is going to be made partial basekit. Slugging still exists, and can be repeated on a 90 second timer. Either slug them all again or clean up faster.
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It's infinite though. Once you've been downed for 90 seconds, you can pick yourself up for the rest of the match. You don't need to be downed for another 90 seconds.
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There is nowhere in the dev notes where it says its infinite after being achieved, so I'm not too sure you're correct on this. I do see the implied wording of the 90 seconds being possibly over multiple sluggings, but it may just be a poor wording issue. We'll come back to this discussion on Tuesday.
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If a Survivor is left in the Dying State for a total of 90 seconds during a match, they gain the ability to pick themselves up after fully recovering.
emphasis mine
'gain the ability' implies permanence in the game's parlance
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Ryan already confirmed that this is how it works.
EDIT: Found the post.
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Grants/gives the ability is not used strictly for permanent effects, though? When used for basekit abilities (see killers like Dracula and Vecna) and certain perks like Apocolyptic Ingenuity, it goes on cooldown or turns off until the pre-requisites are met again. I do know not everything does - notably Devour Hope - but it is not end all be all on permanence.
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Not sure if I misread this, but to me it looks like the 90 second timer only needs to fill once for the whole match, and the rest of the time the only limitation is the time it takes to pick yourself up. Which can be sped up in multiple ways to allow even more self pickups regardless of the bleed out timer putting an overall potential cap.Edit: damn, looks like I was too slow to put that all together D:
Honestly I have to keep my thoughts to myself on the matter, because it really feels like another case of taking the easy route vs the proper one, and its going to cause a lot of problems. I only hope they at least did their diligence with how this change affects every related perk/item/addon/mechanic (including the ones being changed specifically for this,) because if people start doing stuff like using plot twist to safely activate their timer while waiting out corrupt intervention or allowing soul guard to apply to it or flip flop recovery speed builds to create lose/lose scenarios or other obvious oversights, I might finally give up on the game.
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It would be useless if they had to do it again for another 90. The killer would just slug them again.
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They still have to recover, which is a 32 second action, and still bleed our at 4 minutes.
So the first time is 90 seconds, then another 32 after that, up to 4 minutes tops.
But honestly, what is the killer doing that leaving someone slugged for 90 seconds is the answer besides intentionally slugging?
Killer is supposedly all about "being efficient with your time", so if you're taking the entire length of a gen to close out a second chase, then you're really, really doing something wrong on your end. Especially since the average, total match chase time is about 60 seconds per survivor.
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Only thing I would change is that that 90 seconds needs to be killer inflected time in dying state. It should not count if its time that survivor themselves caused like using Plot Twist.
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Why? Are you afraid that survivors are going to put themselves in time out for free?
This feels like when plot twist came out and people were terrified that "plot twist + no mither" hard counters corrupt, and yet, after the first couple days where people tried it for memes or content, they realized doing that sucked and it was never seen again.
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Because there is no reason it to count like obviously was my point in my post.
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Deadzone trolling? I thought survivors were too busy genrushing
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That does not mean its infinite, for now we're not dure whether its going to be or not.
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Unbreakable and exponential make it way shorter though, meaning equiping either of these perks makes it way easier for suvivors to just pick themselves up endlessly. Add Soul guard to that and now they also get endurance when they pick themselves up. There's also conviction which will be even stronger now since you can move and recover meaning you'll reach the needed 25% recovery faster then you can just stand up go to a boon exponential to pick yourself up or just go to a safe area and then wait to pick yourself up.
The most important thing I think people aren't thinkign about is how the anti tunner changes encourage slugging even more. If there's two survivors you hooked twice you are now basically in a lose lsoe situation. These two survivors can now just play really stupidly and body bloc. If they get slugged they can just pick themselves up since the killer won't be able to hook them because of the anti tunnel, and if the killer hooks this person they get punished because of the anti tunnel.I'm not saying these changes will ruin the game, but I completely understand people being worried because we have no numbers and no idea which perks will change. I don't really like these changes the way they are now based on the limited information. Knowing how behaviour handled the removing of haste and hindered stackign I'm guessing they only changed tenacity and unbreakable and that's it.
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They gen rush until they get chased off then use the sprint burst from the hit to run to the dead zone or comp corner
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Plot Twist is a unique case as far as I know. It's like a pseudo dying state (for instance, it doesn't affect the Abandon feature).
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This is exactly why these details are important to include if they don't want a doom focused reaction. How perks like plot twist and soul guard interact with this mechanic would create a wide variety in whether they will (or won't) have exploitable interactions, which is something that happens to both sides all the time. People who want to defend the mechanic will not think about things like that, while people who are concerned with it will, but people who want to take advantage of those oversights will do both. Leaving these interactions to speculation while admitting that many perks on both sides will be adjusted to suit the overall changes tells us next to nothing, and leaves people to make their own assumptions, then time to hunker down on them by the time the rest of the info is released.
People both defending and criticizing such sweeping changes with so many missing details are both correct, it is a matter of perspective with what we have been provided so far and what we both assume and extrapolate from that info. I only hope that both sides are able to break up early preconceptions and be honest about what they end up with when we have it to test, instead of looking for things to simply validate said preconceptions.
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Perks are a variable I assume they left out until the PTB, just because it's a lot of details to work in. Same with Killer powers. I don't see them neglecting all of that in the long run. I agree that being transparent upfront would be better to do on BHVR's part, but I also think the end result would be roughly the same.
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I absolutely think they've overlooked a lot of perks and powers because BHVR is, frankly, very bad at their jobs.
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They have a notoriously bad track record for overlooking individual interactions when making sweeping changes, let alone ones that affect the core gameplay loop this drastically. Its easy to assume they will do everything right, but its crucial for them to allow themselves to be corrected when they don't. Considering the concern is generally around their lack of foresight, that basically means people are going to form their own conclusions and need to be corrected from them when they experience the changes personally. And unfortunately when people have preconceptions but only experience sweeping changes from one side, they tend to be more willing to ignore the concerns of "the other side" than they are to objectively assess them. We saw this firsthand during the overbrine meta, so many survivor players should remember the justifications they saw at the time.
This update is very likely going to fuel Us vs Them far more than it needed to, both in discourse and personal perceptions themselves.
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Trust me, I don't have a ton of faith in them. But I really highly doubt they'd overlook something like Tenacity, which wasn't mentioned, or Killers like Sadako or Myers. Not that I'm claiming to know what they'll do, but those are very huge oversights for a system they seem to have spent some time working out. It's not like individual perk interactions where it's easy to miss variables because there's damn near a million of them now.
And that's true. All of it's gonna depend on how the PTB plays out.
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The game is already getting review bombed on Steam, both for the WD dead update and this snafu
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but those are very huge oversights for a system they seem to have spent some time working out.I only ask you remember these words. People have made this assumption multiple times in the game's past. Honestly reflect on whether they end up ringing true or not. For what its worth, I hope they are, even if I doubt it.
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I don't think, at this point, there's any way that it works out well.
BHVR is breaking some longstanding rules of the asym genre. We'll see how it works out for them. I'm thinking it's going to tank survivor queues, but we'll see. Or, you will. I'll be skonging.
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Oh, its not meant to please everyone. Just approximately 4/5ths of the userbase. I'm not even saying its not a smart move, just that it would line up with how things are playing out currently. Its not even about "the devs are survivor biased" as much as it is "Directly appeasing survivors restores their reputation with the most people in the shortest amount of time." It would just be a very business focused decision, regardless of how anyone feels about it.
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But it's a temporary band-aid. And a poisoned one. Leave it on too long, it'll kill the game.
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I don't disagree. The business world is constantly filled with decisions that front load the short term vs the long. Its about understand opposing positions regardless of how you feel about them.
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You keep threatening that and yet here you are, on these forums.
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Skong releases Thursday. I'm just killing time lol
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