http://dbd.game/killswitch
Ex-Dev says 9.2.0 will destroy Killers
Former Dbd Dev Almo chimes in on the 9.2.0 Changes and how it will seriously gut killers
If even former Devs and known Content Creators who been with DBD since the beginning are gonna quit if these anti tunnel changes go live. These changes cannot go live.
Comments
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There's no way that's him.
This reads like someone posing as him supporting the idea that Killers are somehow not allowed to tunnel or kill anymore
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Exactly that one. I mean, he can play how he likes, but he would not be my go-to source for any Balance Discussion.
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Pretty sure that's him. It echoes what he said before about why asym games die
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OOh yes.. the "strategy" is it even strategy if your options are Optimally play the game or not? What big brain strategy has you playing vs 4 players all match when you clearly have the advantage to go down to 3v1? It's a cope for killers and trust me I read is post about VHS and being able to not kill the survivors was one of a 100 hundred issues with the game.
This is just a bad appeal to authority argument. like a random Who says the game will end if things don't change!! more news at 7.
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I think its him and if not…. The thing is, I believe that kill rates will drop dramatically after the changes. Yes, camping, tunneling, and slugging are frustrating, but I think the developers have interfered too much with the killers' gameplay in the past. What's left for the killers to do? They can't do this, they can't do that, and it's getting worse and worse. Either genre regression/block perks are getting nerfed, or other obstacles are being put in the killers' way. The MMR system is solely responsible for this. Everyone wants to win, and that's the main problem.
Killers who have the most hooks should be the best in the game, and if they manage to get kills, maybe they should get a small bonus on their MMR or something like that, but this blunt kill/escape system doesn't work anymore. And why? Because the survivors are constantly complaining. Killers, too, for that matter, because the generators fly too fast. It's always the same arguments. That's a fact.
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I feel like you could tunnel at 5 gens even with the penalties in place and still win a majority of your games. I'm not able to test the PTB and I don't know if any content creators have tested this theory out (I hope so, since this is what the PTB is for). Maybe they would conclude that because there's no MMR on the PTB and the Survivors were "bad" or not the usual super SWF bogeyman that they typically get in all their public trials, that it wouldn't prove anything. I have seen some prominent streamers struggle to win with the new systems in place against Survivors from their community, but this is not really a fair test either, because they're not going to pick average Survivors to demo/create new content with.
I personally think the only way to really test the new systems to destruction is if they actually go to the live servers and I can't see that happening with the overwhelmingly negative feedback they've received so far. The backlash would be huge and not worth the damage it might do to the game.
On paper, a 25% boost in repair speed and no ability for the Killer to regress gens sounds really strong, but it's not a magic bullet for the Survivor team that's now a man down. Could an average Survivor team win with the odds so clearly stacked against them if the Killer is able to keep the pressure on? I'm not so sure. But I do think that the new systems will make games like this feel more worthwhile to play through for the Survivor side, since they have a chance to win, however small that chance might be.
With respect to Almo, I've played enough "samey" early 3V1s as Survivor to not want to play any more of them. They all end the same way. So what's the point of playing out a 3V1 at 4 or 5 gens in the current state of the game? An no, it's not hatch, because Killers often prevent that from spawning.
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Yes, you can still just tunnel someone out early and will most likely win the game. Because even no Regression and 25% Repair Speed Increase dont substitute a 4th teammate. In an early 3v1 the Killer should be at a point where almost no Gen Progression is possible because Survivors will be too busy with everything else. And 25% increase of 0 is still 0…
This part is especially important:
With respect to Almo, I've played enough "samey" early 3V1s as Survivor to not want to play any more of them. They all end the same way. So what's the point of playing out a 3V1 at 4 or 5 gens in the current state of the game? An no, it's not hatch, because Killers often prevent that from spawning.
An early 3v1 means that the Killer can toy with the Survivors from now on and basically go for a risk-free 12 Hook-game. Which is good for their ego, but not really healthy. And as Survivor, you dont really have any chance of winning anymore, you are basically a BP-Pinata.
And while "agency" seems to be a popular buzzword nowadays, taking all agency away from the Survivor to let them stay in a pointless 3v1 is also not good. And even with the changes, it will most likely be a 3v1 they will lose, but at least there is a chance and it does not feel as miserable as before.
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Going to reddit it does seem to be his account. If this is a con its a very long one.
But he does also say in the post and thread
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I would be perfectly happy to be proven wrong here; if people genuinely love the game more and it grows the audience, then that's great! But I have serious doubts that this will happen. If I were really smart, I'd wait to write this until the effects are felt. :D-
Maybe you misinterpreted the tone of the writing. I am not freaking out. I just think this is going to cause a lot of different problems.4 -
When he was working as a dev he nerfed legion and pig because they were too "overpowered"
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I mean yeah it does but it also isn't hard to echo that sentiment. We've seen it here recently.
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Maybe. I'm not sure that he really understands the game at a higher level, and that's totally fine.
However, he seems to care a lot about the games feeling the same. There's a lot of that as Survivor. Load in, Corrupt. Killer tunnels off of first hook. Early 3v1 and you can't let go on hook anymore. Play out an unwinnable game, repeat until you finally get a decent match.
I think what he is missing is that tunneling is the linchpin. We can't really buff lower tiers until tunneling is gone, since it is obscuring the true stats.
Likewise, it also let's us think about incorporating base gen regression thereby improving perk variety. It again reduces the need for anti tunnel or anti slug on Survivor, again increasing perk variety.
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Maybe. I'm not sure that he really understands the game at a higher level, and that's totally fine.First, in his defense reading through his posts, he does talk a lot about how difficult game design can be, how you are weighing a lot of different factors, and an asym adds far more difficulties on top of this.
Broadly though, he very much seems to lean into the camp that the game should not be balanced. It should be in the killer's favor and he spends time on the importance of the killer/power fantasy. This seems to both be a personal preference/desire plus a theory on the queue times.
On this specific issue I think he's making the mistake a lot of people are, that the killer can't tunnel and that survivors can somehow just get up in their face as the killer must get to 6 hooks, which seems an overreaction to the idea of the other side getting a buff at the cost of being down a player.
I think what he is missing is that tunneling is the linchpin.He thinks variety is important and seems to believe that DbD is achieving that. I agree on the importance, agree with you that things really feel very samey.
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Are people ok? You can still tunnel. There's just some risk involved in it now. I feel like the playstyle of the person in question is exactly why these changes are needed.
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From the amount of things ive seen covering this from reddit threads to videos to posts on here. Not a high chance a majority of it is gonna go through. Personally my problem is the 6 hook thing and the hook blocker. Killer can still proxy camp if they really wanna win making the blocker pointless. And it kinda incentivizes you to heal under hook which we all have learned has never been the play. And the 6 hook thing the amount of times I see people trigger it on accident by literally hooking 2 survivors between the 3 on the first survivor. And the fact that doesnt even make sense from a tunneling standpoint because if you are hooking 2 other people between how are you tunneling by nature? The killer incentives and the very long protection is fine though. I have no quarrels from them or the hooking the same survivor twice in a row so they die penalty. Hopefully they do this in a way that works for most people.
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There are no known content creators who have been with DBD since the beginning who are going to quit over the changes. That's how the content game works. You say things to get the clicks.
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Fewer trajectories for a match? Every single match of SoloQ is the exact same. Killer tunnels/camps/slugs when they don't need to, so that the game is put into easy mode for them so they can exert some sort of power fantasy that they lack in their real life.
This update isn't going to revitalize this game anyway, so it really doesn't matter. SWF continue to ruin the game for every other party involved and BHVR refuses to address that so they keep watering down the entire game to uphold the group that spends the most money to keep their lame studio afloat.
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If they wanted to tie it to gens, I'd be fine with that. Instead of 6 hooks, make it 3 completed gens.
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I do think the punishments are maybe a little too easy to trigger during normal game play at the moment. My worry is that the PTB is really just the first step in testing such a huge change to the game like this. It ideally needs to be tested on the wider community so that people can get a feel for what it's actually like in a real trial and not just by reading about it or watching their favourite content creators. But I feel like most of the suggestions are going to be shot down before 95% of us get the chance to see the systems in action for ourselves and I think that would be a shame.
The whole idea that the Killer should be able to tunnel out the baby Dweet without consequence never really sat well with the concept of a "power role" for me. I mean, I do it too sometimes when I feel the need to start making sacrifices. Why wouldn't you make things easier for yourself if given the opportunity? Sometimes you just need somebody out of the game because you want to secure the win. But this isn't necessarily good or fun video game design for both parties. The Killer should always feel like a threat, but why can't we do this without relying on weak links in the Survivor team to be easy targets? Easier said than done, of course.
Post edited by tjt85 on3 -
Yes, it does seem that he is in the camp of the idea that the game is supposed to be a Killer power fantasy. It also does seem like he's under the impression that the Killer isn't allowed to tunnel, which you rightly point out isn't true. There are consequences to tunneling, and perhaps they are a little too easy to trigger right not, but there are also rewards to not tunneling. This is promoting MORE styles of gameplay, instead of tunneling being the default.
The "strategic choice" isn't much of a choice at all. It was the answer to every situation a Killer could find themselves in and THAT cannot be healthy.
DBD's variety became stale when everyone became competitive mindset gamers.
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Dbd isn't dying, if you can only play the game by hard tunneling you should probably quit right now, killer queue was too long anyway
and the most important part you can still tunnel it's just less of a free win, this whole text is a nothingburger
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yeh I agree. I remember tunnelling in almost every game I've played, BG3 target the hardest hitter, Battlefront 2 just tunnel the weak link in heroes vs villains. There are very few games where it doesn't exist and I feel like punishing it too heavily would just make these games less fun as it looks like it might with dbd.
Although I haven't checked it yet because I'm on a break from dbd because when you eat the same food too much you eventually get sick of it.
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The big flaw that I've seen is the penalty is ONLY tracking hooks. It doesnt matter how much you chase other people, if it doesnt result in a hook... I guess you're tunneling.
If you watch the 2nd game here, a flashlight save is what changed him from being a person playing casual to a dirty tunneler who deserves nerfs, lol. Something tells me he MIGHTVE had more than a 2k if those didnt kick in.
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Except this doesn't just punish hard tunneling. It rewards bad plays by survivors
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If you are able to tunnel at 5 gens then that game is already lost. That screams "I got downed instantly and farmed off hook when you walked 2 feet away."
Either way that 25% is huge despite a player being down. Against lower tiers you arent getting kills until 1-2 gens left with 4-5 stages against efficient survivors so having 72 second gens helps massively especially when you consider the fact gen progression perks and even toolboxes. That one barely 60 second chase? Last 2 gens are done because of the 25% repair speed bonus + hyperfocus. This update is legit just a buff to higher tiers and a punch in the face against most of the playable roster.-3 -
It rewards nothing you get basekit buffs for playing the game normally, in your average game if you don't tunnel survivors actually get 0 bonuses, it's only killer buffs for fresh hooks but you guys keep conveniently ignoring the killer buffs
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Found another one
MAYBE the penalty shouldn't be a thing if someone is cranking the gens...
The Taurie here definitely never got tunneled and is just blatantly gaming the system.
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It's not even rewarding bad play. The unhooked survivor gets to see the killer aura and the game punishes the killer for going after them. This is rewarding survivors playing aggressively.
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With a bit of luck, there will be more "ex-devs" following the consequences of this update going live.
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Anything Almo says should be taken with a grain of salt.
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I get the thinking behind making conspicuous actions cancel the protection but isn't that just handing out the benefits of tunneling someone out without the need to actually do it? The survivors would be in a situation where they can either act as if they're playing a 3v1 or it can just be made a 3v1. The other survivor may as well not even be there.
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A severe grain of salt at that. I know Almo was a dev, and I say this respectfully, but his gameplay particularly on killer wasn't necessarily the greatest.
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What do you mean handing out the benefits of tunneling someone out without the need to actually do it?
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The survivors would be in a situation where they would have to chose between having a teammate that can not do anything without losing their anti-tunnel protection or having one that does help but makes it as if there's no anti-tunnel system because they helped. So either they contribute nothing or they do and cause the anti-tunnel protection to turn off.
Either way, there may as well not be any anti-tunnel system at that point. The only time it kicks in is when the survivors turn the match into a 3v1 themselves by having someone who is intentionally useless to keep the protection active.
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Four people left at halfway? So like two or three gens finished? Isn't that normal? Do y'all really have survivors dead with less than six hooks at that point without intentional, hard tunneling?
This just isn't how my matches go at all. Everyone is usually around until maybe the last gen. But they all have one or two hooks. My momentum in matches is consistent and my stats are average.
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Which would just be like any OTHER anti-tunnel protection. This was the entire reason for conspicuous actions to begin with. You ended up with an awkward situation where DS was essentially granting every survivor 2 minutes of free gen time if the killer tried to avoid eating it. That has nothing to do with tunneling anymore.
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He's an EX-dev for a reason. Also confirmed killer main lmao.
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I posted 2 examples with video. Neither involves hard tunneling.
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You know people can change jobs without being bad at their previous job as you are implying.
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There are tons of videos like those, now.
It's good that it's being showcased while in the PTB - that's what it's for, finding/exploiting stuff like this.
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Tell that to the legions of Otz worshippers, who deify Otz and puts anything he says on a pedestal as some kind of gospel truth, who will crucify anyone who dares to even mildly disagree with his opinion or go against the popular opinion about him or what he says.
How anytime Otz feels or says something negative, people blow it up as some kind of objective truth and how it's over for DBD due to Otz being the end all, be all for this game according some people.
I'm exaggerating a bit with what i'm saying, but my main point is that despite what you're saying is correct, it isn't something a big online portion of the community is known to do in general.
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I'm not saying it's not possible or even unusual. It happens in my games too, mostly because someone is just bad and keeps getting found and immediately losing the chase. But this Reddit post words it like its the way it should always be.
With all the discontent, I don't see the six hook states going live anyway. I don't even know if either of the penalties will either. Elusive? Maybe.
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Oh im sure. Theres just alot of people who are parroting "well just dont tunnel, duh" making it sound like thats the only thing really being affected.
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He willingly left to pursue his own goals? Also "killer main" "survivor main" is such a nothing burger nowadays. Was he the greatest killer? No but he at least had some understanding of dbd compared to some of the balancers nowadays.
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With all the new changes to unhooks, I feel like thats already pretty fair for countering tunneling. Getting caught later while working on a gen is NOT tunneling. If you get found and downed 3 separate times after given time to reset, thats just a skill issue at that point. Theres plenty of tools here to get away from the hook. People are pretending the 2 penalties are the extent to the anti-tunnel and the rest just doesnt matter.
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Then i trust you understand my annoyance with his insufferable fans repeating the whole ''devs rudely shut down otz and ignore his solution during TWD Chandler stream that would have 100% worked without flaws''
Like i'm not gonna defend how bhvr handled that entire situation, however i've seen people take that situation to the extremes and basically treating not taking Otz's suggestion as some kind of unforgivable mortal sin that bhvr must burn on a pyre for, because nobody is ever allowed to go against Otz in any way it seems.
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I agree, yeah. I've had people get unhooked on the other side of the map and when I make my way back, they're just on the same gen, unhealed. It's a stupid choice and the killer shouldn't be penalized for it.
Though, at the same time, when I play soloq, I will literally beg people to heal me and they won't. They just wanted the unhook points. I feel for soloq survivors who are just screwed by their team. It's almost like survivors need a buff against bad teammates.
But also, I don't know how severe I really think these penalties are. I've recently been playing without any regression perks and have only bothered kicking gens to activate Nowhere to Hide and I can't say I'm struggling. And that's with four people left, not the three that would trigger the penalty. My survivor gen build before Streetwise was reworked was probably stronger than these penalties.
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There's a lot of people popping off that are completely detached from reality.
I'm looking forward to the incoming ban wave once the love notes are revealed and reality crashes down.
Happens every time @_@
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