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Why is DBD wasting Frank Stone’s potential.

TheGoon224
TheGoon224 Member Posts: 393
edited September 14 in General Discussions

we know he’s in the entity’s realm but god damn dose him becoming a skin for one of the worst killers in the game feel like a robbery of what could’ve been. I would 100% beg the boys at Behavior if i could to reconsider turning what could’ve been an absolutely peak killer into just another 20 dollar if i could but it genuinely feels like it’s too late.

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Answers

  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 3,307
    edited September 14

    Gonna play devil's advocate here, having Frank Stone in his final form as a legendary skin, doesn't really take anything away from his portrayal in TCOFS, as all we saw him as, was just being an m1 killer.

    Hell, throughout the entire game, he's pretty much just an M1 killer, who we never see perform any kind of special ability.

    Even his spectral form never did anything special outside of teleporting around and being vulnerable to the camera absorbing his essence when filming him with it. Even with just the teleporting around part for a power, it wouldn't be anything more than just rehashing existing elements from other killer powers.

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,250

    I thought maybe new killer, then at least new skin but nothing which is interesting.

  • Shroompy
    Shroompy Member Posts: 7,787
  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 3,307
    edited September 14

    Maybe with rehashed abilities, but not with being portrayed as an m1 killer, aside from maybe Pyramid Head & Ghostface.

    Every other killer have been portrayed in their source material with clear cut aspects of their characters or clear cut abilities that made them stand out as being more than just that of an m1 killer.

    Outside of what we've seen from Frank Stone in TCOFS, he doesn't really have any other additional and clear cut abilities that can be translated into a power. So any additional abilities outside of teleportation in spectral form would have be entirely creative liberties on bhvr's part.

  • SpitefulHateful
    SpitefulHateful Member Posts: 446

    The entire Casting of Frank Stone was a huge disappoinment. It was clearly meant to expand DbD lore and attract more players to Dead by Daylight, but BHVR failed it.

    • Logically, Frank Stone had to be the next original Killer to tie in the CoFS to the main universe and give the new players an incentive. It doesn't matter that Frank was mostly M1 killer in the game — DbD could have expanded his abilities in the Entities realm. There are so many opportunities, especially given that his entire theme that he is a "crafted" Killer, groomed by Augustine as her offering to the Entity.
    • We could have had more survivors as interesting as Taurie and Hadie, while expanding the theme of survivors with "mystical" perks and abilities.
    • This game could have been a premise for an entire story-based mode in DbD, because the Casting of Frank Stone had a relatively open ending, so giving players an option to choose or find out what happened to the characters by playing as them in a story mode and unlocking bits of story would have been a good opportunity to try out new things.

    But instead, BHVR just dropped the game, didn't follow up with introducing Frank to the DbD Killer cast and went back on milking licenses.

  • TheGoon224
    TheGoon224 Member Posts: 393

    honestly while I personally like the game because DBD’s world is just so interesting to me. I cannot deny the fact that a lot of people did not like this game whether it be for the in your face references or just people getting confused this game did just kind of fail but that ain’t stopping me from wanting Papa Frank to become what he should’ve been all this time.

  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 3,307
    edited September 15

    Everything we've seen him do in TCOFS is far from unique, since we already have other characters do those things already.

    he clearly has counter play in the form of the Camera

    Unknown type counterplay but with a super8 camera instead.

    Him projecting himself as a form of mobility

    His projecting/teleporting while being in his spectral essence form would either just be A: Another teleport to specific points on the map type power, B: Another variant of Wraith's invisibility and Sadako's manifestation/demanifestation, or C: Be a 2.0 of Nurse's power, all depending entirely on how it is adapted in DBD. All in all, would be far from unique in the end.

    he has some of the best lore by dbd standards, but I feel like that’s kind of expected since its a story focused game.

    I have to disagree with that sentiment. To me, there are better lores for other characters in the game compared to Frank Stone's. His lore to me is decent, but nothing i would call spectacular.

    I feel like the reason you're giving his lore more credit, is mainly because it has an entire seperate game for it to be focused and built on.

    he basically has damn near everything to classify as a killer aside from an actual power, which I feel like they could definitely design one for him.

    You'll just end up with the above powerwise, which i'd hardly call that unique.

    The only way for Frank to have an actual unique power imo, would be for bhvr to take creative liberties and give him something entirely new as his main power, that wasn't seen in TCOFS.

    Also we're most likely gonna get Frank consuming people as his mori with the coming skin of his final form, since Visceral Rarity cosmetics are a thing now.

  • OnryosTapeRentals
    OnryosTapeRentals Member Posts: 1,783

    I'm going to be frank here (no pun intended), but there is no potential here.

    TCoFS underperformed. As soon as the middling/poor reviews came in, Frank Stone's fate was sealed. No sane company is going to make a whole Chapter based off a game that failed.

  • Rickprado
    Rickprado Member Posts: 893
    edited September 15

    It felt very bad when they annouced Frank Stone as a trapper skin. I would wish they just forget about the character and never ever release anything related to it.

    The game Casting of Frank Stone kinda tricks you into thinking that Frank Stone will be a killer in DBD (specially the ending when every protagonist dies and the postcredit scene) that receiving the news he will be just a skin feels so bad.

    Post edited by Rickprado on
  • Shroompy
    Shroompy Member Posts: 7,787

    I mean if were gonna go that route you can even say the same for the large majority of unlicensed killers.

    Doctor wasnt going around shocking people the way he does in game and hitting them with a big stick. His old flavor text for his power was "Is it a gift, or a curse? The Entity has ignited a corrupted and inexhaustible spark in the Doctor's heart which allows him to generate electroconvulsive power at will". His story suggests that all he was before the Entity intervened, was a guy who liked to torture people with electricity.

    Frank Stone has a foundation with projection like Doctor had with electricity, and it doesnt need to be a simple teleport. He could show projections of himself which gives off different effects or even project something else entirely, and it could be countered using a camera. (Maybe even something similar to a Unknown where he places these projections and he can take control of them for a short time, and this time could be cut even shorter when hit with a camera?)

    There is so much more that could be done for him instead of just being "man with machete". He has his killer alias already being "The Champion" and they already have a full story fleshed out for him. Its such a waste to simply make him a Legendary.

  • NotJared
    NotJared Member Posts: 709

    I agree, opting not to add The Champion as his own character with a fleshed out power might be Dead by Daylight's biggest missed opportunity.

    Failing to tie the two games together in any major way, for being Dead by Daylight's first major spinoff game, is honestly wasted potential and brings incredible disappointment.

    Having a full-fledged chapter would have done the character justice. Seeing him be resigned to an expensive skin for Trapper is very disappointing.

  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 3,307
    edited September 15

    Except the difference is that both Frank Stone and licensed characters (aside from half original ones like Ghostface), have an existing portrayal from outside the game, that DBD have to adapt into gameplay in a faithful manner. You don't have that with all the other unlicensed characters.

    Also since you wanna bring up lore, Frank in his final form doesn't have access to his spectral form or any of the abilities that came with it and unlike The Entity with Doctor, Augustine manifested a version of Frank's essence that, while supernaturally changed visually, is still just nothing more than an M1 killer, just like he was in his human form. Unlike with Doctor, who was changed by The Entity, from his human form and into how he is now with a clear cut ability to go along with it.

    Also those projections as you call them, isn't projections, but Frank in his spectral form teleporting around. Something he, again, wouldn't have access to in his final form, since he's pretty much reduced back into a "man with machete" in that form, which he became before being taken by The Entity.

    Which is why, any power you give to him would, just like with Pyramid Head, be an entirely creative liberty for a character's power, that would be taken from outside the source material portrayal, and why exactly, you can't do that much with him without deviating from his portrayal in TCOFS.

    Also just in general, i don't think Frank have anything unique enough going for him gameplay wise, that would justify making him his own Killer.

  • Shroompy
    Shroompy Member Posts: 7,787

    Correct me if Im wrong but it seems to me that you simply dont want him because they cant do a 1/1 portrayal of him in game, in which case none of the licensed killers are. I also cant recall anywhere in the game where it says he doesnt have access to said form in his final itteration. Even if he doesnt, I dont think many people would complain if he would have access to it in game since its still pretty faithful to the original material and we dont see him enough in his final form to know if he has any other abilities. I also see you bring up Pyramid Head a lot and I have yet to hear a single complaint of him being unfaithful in the 5+ years since he's been added into the game.

    Also you thinking he isnt interesting enough is fair, thats your opinion. But you gotta admit that to set up an entire game around a character, even giving him an alias and probably one of the coolest designs only to make him a Trapper skin, is such a wasted opportunity for a chapter. Thats not even mentioning the survivors. Linda couldve been our first elderly female survivor.

  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 3,307
    edited September 16

    Correct me if Im wrong but it seems to me that you simply dont want him because they cant do a 1/1 portrayal of him in game, in which case none of the licensed killers are. I also cant recall anywhere in the game where it says he doesnt have access to said form in his final itteration. Even if he doesnt, I dont think many people would complain if he would have access to it in game since its still pretty faithful to the original material and we dont see him enough in his final form to know if he has any other abilities. I also see you bring up Pyramid Head a lot and I have yet to hear a single complaint of him being unfaithful in the 5+ years since he's been added into the game.

    You're missing the point, i'm not saying i don't want him, i'm saying that i don't believe there isn't enough going for him in TCOFS alone, that would warrant making him his own killer, and that the only way for him to actually justify making him one, would be to take creative liberties in giving him an actual main power, like they did with Pyramid Head.

    We don't know if he does or doesn't retain his spectral aspects, i'm making the assumption based on empirical evidence that he doesn't have those abilities because A: He never uses any powers in his final form and is purely just being an M1 Killer and B: He's never shown going back to his spectral essence form after achieving his final form.

    I'm bringing Pyramid Head up because without bhvr taking creative liberties with his powers, he would just be an M1 killer as well. The point was the fact that both characters are in a similar situation in terms of powers and both require the same solution to work.

    As for people complaining about faithfulness, i have a better examples to pick from actually, such as Freddy, Wesker, Pig, Ghostface, Nemesis, Xenomorph, Springtrap, Chucky & most recently, Myers with his Slaughtering Strike rework. The only reason people wouldn't give a damn about how faithful Frank Stone would potentially be, is because barely anyone cares about him in comparison to the other iconic licensed characters. Also i did once see someone complain about Pyramid Head being unfaithful to his portrayal in Silent Hill 2.

    Also you thinking he isnt interesting enough is fair, thats your opinion. But you gotta admit that to set up an entire game around a character, even giving him an alias and probably one of the coolest designs only to make him a Trapper skin, is such a wasted opportunity for a chapter. Thats not even mentioning the survivors. Linda couldve been our first elderly female survivor.

    1.Please don't twist my words, i specifically said and i quote ''I don't think Frank have anything unique enough going for him gameplay wise'', that does not mean Frank as a character isn't interesting to me or that i don't want to see him added in-game at all. Just that (to repeat my previous point above) i don't believe he has enough to him in terms of gameplay that would justify making him his own killer, exactly because of his lack of an actual power in his final form to adapt into DBD's gameplay.

    Even as a Specter and his abilities while in that state, other existing Killer powers already do everything he does in some way or form, and i'd rather save the roster slots for actual unique and distinctive powers, rather than for more Killers with rehashed powers.

    -

    2.BHVR have not once made a full chapter based on something they owned, there was never any reason to assume TCOFS would be treated any differently. Also i'm perfectly fine with not getting Linda, Sam, Chris, Maddie or any of the characters as their own Survivors, as it just means we can get them as skins like Frank and save ourselves more perk clutter.

    The only downside in my eyes with not getting a TCOFS chapter, is that we're not getting the Ceda Hill Steel Mill as a map, but that's about it.

    -

    3.It's not like him being a Trapper skin takes anything away from how we see him in TCOFS, as again, he is portrayed as an M1 killer who never uses any actual powers during his final form. If you replaced Frank with Trapper in that game, you wouldn't even notice any difference, outside of the part where he absorbs people and stab himself to silence them in his body.

    Post edited by Smoe on
  • Atsuka_Anarchy
    Atsuka_Anarchy Member Posts: 524

    TCOFS had so MUCH potential.. it's a crying shame. Bought it day1 with high hopes.

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  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 4,259

    It is unfortunate that it will just be a skin, but as the game ended up underpreforming and forgotten in a week, BHVR decided it wouldn't be worth it to spend time adding their failed game into DbD.

  • XDgamer018
    XDgamer018 Member Posts: 708

    shoudnt matter if they create a fun killer people wil play him regardless especially since they own tcofs…
    And people saying he doesnt fit… might i introduce houndmaster…

  • DragonMasterDarren
    DragonMasterDarren Member Posts: 3,080

    Where exactly all of this hype for Frank Stone was when the game actually released and then subsequently failed less then a week later I will never know


    Maybe if people actually liked the glorified extended cutscene that is The Casting of Frank Stone, we’d actually get a full chapter.

  • IlliterateGenocide
    IlliterateGenocide Member Posts: 6,144

    thats the part i dont understand, if they make frank stoen it would make the fans happy, but also people who ddint play the game wouldn't care either and would still play him

  • XDgamer018
    XDgamer018 Member Posts: 708

    exactly its a win win… you get a side game full of lore for people interested in the killer/chapter and others can just get the characters via shards for their perks. Id 100% rather have frank stone then houndmaster… (bc no offense but houndmaster looks more like a cartoon villain…)

  • TheGoon224
    TheGoon224 Member Posts: 393

    I used to main her but the bugs were so insufferable to the point where I just abandoned her