http://dbd.game/killswitch
Another Untested and Undercooked Update Destroying Perks
After the devs "reverted" the anti-tunnel and anti-slug changes, they of course did not have another PTB to test the changes, and lo and behold tenacity is destroyed. Since they kept the "auto recover" feature but removed the base kit tenacity, tenacity the perk currently does not allow you to recover while crawling since they kept the perk update. My entire build centers around being able to recover while crawling on the ground. Please revert tenacity the perk in a hotfix patch or implement base kit tenacity that allows you to recover while crawling. Thank you.
Comments
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I permarun tenacity and this is such an absurd thing for them to do I can't imagine how this went out the door
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Ngl I can't tell anymore if its incompetence or actually a sneaky deceptive way to get these changes in to nerf survivors, at this point it's exactly like the mori situation where they were gonna make something like a baseline unbreakable for the longest time along with the mori change but we still haven't gotten anything like that.
Crazy how these things happen over and over again, it's not just this but other things too.
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My guess is that, based on negative feedback about the basekit slugging changes allowing survivors to move whilst crawling (a lot of people including myself thought it removed interactivity) they decided they should keep it removed it from tenacity as well.
Devs have done this quite a few times in the past where they change something usually for the better or neutral and then suddenly decide that thing has actually always been problematic and they destroy it. See Thanataphobia and Wake Up.
Now, i do personally think that tenacity was fine before, but if my assumption is correct and wasn't just a lazy mistake they made. If they insist on not having moving whilst crawling i think it should have more compensation buffs.-4 -
It's intentional.
They didn't forget to un-nerf the regression perks that were impacted by the hook incentives, and while I figured there was still some weird way they just 'forgot' to do the same for the survivor side, they did cancel two perk buffs, so they did go over this.
They consciously decided to keep the survivor nerfs.
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Bro, forget tenacity, they killed off the record :D nerfed hope eventho its only in endgame… tunneling is back on the table :D what a lame ass updatee. Buffed killers and killer perks, i find this ridicilous, at this point killers gonna start playing againist bots only :D Not only that, they add killer and survivor and change perks but bug maps?! Gens inside a barrel - cannot be worked on. invisible ramps and what not. At this point im not sure if survivors should laugh or just uninstall :D
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All day yesterday I had nothing but Krasue tunneling off hook at 4-5 gens. They absolutely buffed tunneling while nerfing the strongest perk survivors had to counter it and the tenacity nerf without the full anti slug change is absolutely ludicrous. At this point it feels like we can’t get one single update without major problems and no quality testing before they push this stuff live.
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well they gotta suck up to the killer mains that went ballistic on the ptb. Gotta make them feel better!
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It's always the same excuse. That something was broken and had to be reverted so let's never try again. At least with something like the Twins, there's not a lot they can do. But with basekit mechanics that reduce the most miserable parts of the trial that the majority of players face? To the point where they're queueing up less over time?
I still want to believe that anti-tunnel/slug will come back off the shelf, but this patch was a really lousy way to inspire hope there.
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the anti tunnel update became the super tunnel update. Why do survivors even play anymore.
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I honestly think it's a huge oversight. Especially with the OTR/Tenacity changes.
They said they'd revert all the perk changes made with the anti-tunnel/slug system and just… didn't revert these two?
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survivors don’t matter haven’t you figured it out yet. Survivors suffer for years been told to adapt and yet the proposed changes may have made the killers adapt and struggle but no. Killers cry and get their hands held. Now survivoes have weaker anti tunnel and weaker anti slug. Survivors got nothing but another killer who can do way too much with busted add ons, busted gameplay mechanics because only the killer experience matters.
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I don't think there's any point in getting a victim complex about it. This is just a plain Hanlon's Razor type situation.
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I’m not a victim, I main killer but I guess I am because of all the dc’s ive been getting is ruining my experience. I don’t want to play with bots. I just t miss when killer was fun and a challenge. It hasn’t been since the meta shake up that came with wesker. Killers are just designed so poorly anymore without a thought about the survivor experience. For example why do so many recent killers need to vault pallets and have high mobility? Wesker atleast had a massive drawback to vaulting but, krause, ghoul, vecna and dracula? No downside.
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The thing is, they DID go over it. They looked at the perk changes and decided to revert only two of them: Borrowed Time and Babysitter. There is simply no way that they missed OTR and Tenacity.
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Dead Man’s Switch still has its nerf intact, and that perk has a much higher pick rate than both OTR and Tenacity combined.
-16 -
Can we get a source for your perk pick rate data?
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Official data proof from BHVR is not required. This isn’t a Law and Order episode.
Do you honestly think OTR has a higher pick rate than Dead Man’s Switch?
-17 -
We wouldn't know, since there isn't any data on it.
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Regardless on if this is true or not- I thought we all as a community collectively agreed for the most part that just because a perk/add-on/item etc. gets used often doesn’t mean it should be nerfed?
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Absolutely. Do you know how many solo queue survivors there are that don't want to be tunneled?
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Here’s the original claim…
“They didn't forget to un-nerf the regression perks that were impacted by the hook incentives, and while I figured there was still some weird way they just 'forgot' to do the same for the survivor side, they did cancel two perk buffs, so they did go over this.They consciously decided to keep the survivor nerfs”
So, the original response was this claim is incorrect, because BHVR didn’t actually un-nerf all the regression perks.
Dead Man’s Switch is still nerfed…. And Leverage is also still nerfed. I originally didn’t mention Leverage, because I didn’t want to deal with anyone trying to argue that Leverage “was actually buffed”, even though it’s obviously meant to be a nerf.
-12 -
Leverage was laterally adjusted, but with a closer inspection, it was buffed. Just because the big number got smaller doesn't mean it's a nerf. I would much rather have 50% increased time healing for only 30 seconds versus having a 30% increased healing time for an entire minute. The biggest problem for this perk was killers running back to hook to secure a free tunnel. I can say with 100% certainty that this adjustment will do nothing for killers that do this (and now that off the record is nerfed, it will happen with higher probability). Not only that, but the person who unhooked the survivor is punished for longer. I'm not sure how anyone could view this as a straight up nerf.
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Neither Dead Man's Switch nor Leverage are regression perks.
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Dead Man's Switch is a gen defense perk, that was changed because of the basekit pop from the anti-tunnel update.
Leverage was changed because of the anti-tunnel update, because it was primarily used as a tunneling perk.
Do you know how many survivors don't value the stealth aspect of OTR, and get frustrated that the endurance portion is useless when a killer is tunneling them off a hook? A lot of survivors don't actually value OTR as a good anti-tunnel perk. Its popularity is often with survivors that want to combo it with DS, so they can weaponize two perks against the killer.
Compare this to Dead Man's Switch, which actually is a really amazing gen defense perk, and that is the most popular type of killer perk.
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If you are combining OTR and DS, you have to do NOTHING to progress the game, since both effects are lost upon healing, generators, or totems. That is more slowdown than dead man's switch could even wish for.
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What is with the "NOTHING to progress the game" strawman? Do you literally imagine a survivor staring at a wall for 30 seconds before deciding to weaponize their perks?
Let's try this again. If the OTR user gets unhooked, and the killer is chasing someone else, the OTR user can either immediately run at the killer, or get healed and then immediately run at the killer. None of that requires the OTR user to initiate a heal or repair.
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I didn't know explaining basic macro mechanics was a strawman for you. If you are not hitting the person who is body blocking you with OTR, that's a skill issue. That's besides the point. This thread is about tenacity, but you keep moving the goalposts to irrelevant perks that have nothing to do with either system that got pulled because of killer players. Please try to stay on topic.
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Dead Man's Switch got nerfed because of over-use.
It was like every game you'd see either Pain Res + DMS, or DMS + something else. It was rightfully brought down a peg. Not to become useless, but to become more fair.
Remember, Deadlock is 25 seconds on the most progressed gen, and that too sees a lot of use.
Grim Embrace is 10 (x3) seconds + 40 seconds for the last survivor, and that blocks EVERY gen on the map.
They also buffed Ruin, as well as Call of Brine. Not to their prime forms, but to something in the middle, that is actually usable.I also didn't mention Surge, which has also seen a massive spike in usage, and it is just as annoying as DMS. It hasn't been nerfed.
Literally, it was ONE perk that got adjusted to a more fair level.
And let's not talk about the elephant in the room, where survivors has gotten TWO perks completely gutted, but I guess you are too biased to see the full picture here.6 -
OTR is only gutted if you like weaponizing it against killers that are trying to chase someone else.
And Tenacity is only gutted if you like weaponizing it to force killers to slug. In my games, survivors are using the faster crawling speed to immediately crawl under an undropped pallet, or to immediately crawl away from a wall, so I'm stuck slugging them to look around for survivors that either want to pallet save or flashlight save.
Which means the "anti-slugging" perk is being used to force the killer to slug. The faster crawling speed should be delayed by a few seconds, so that it's not preventing a killer from immediately picking up a survivor.
And that's the big problem. Defensive perks should be defensive only. They shouldn't be weaponized against the killer.
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No, I'm pretty sure it's also gutted against Killers who can count ten seconds.
Tenacity is already a weak perk and they nerfed it, for some reason. The idea that you can somehow be victimized by Tenacity is somewhat laughable.
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Dead Man's Switch is a gen defense perk, that was changed because of the basekit pop from the anti-tunnel update.
Leverage was changed because of the anti-tunnel update, because it was primarily used as a tunneling perk.
Firstly, my claim was that regression perks had their nerfs reverted. You claim this is incorrect by pointing to a non-regression perk, which is obviously missing the mark.
Secondly: do you have anything to back these statements up?
Because unlike with the actual gen regression perks, OTR, and Tenacity, no component of either of these perks was basekitted, so neither of their nerfs were intrinsically entangled with the tunnel and slugging changes.
What makes you think that they were changed because of the tunnel and slug changes?
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I see what you’re saying, but my point was a little different. You brought up pick rate in the context of these nerfs, which made it sound like the implication was that the nerfs were justified because of popularity. That’s what I was responding to, since I wanted to be sure I wasn’t misunderstanding. I was just surprised to see it, that’s all. Thanks for clarifying.
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Do you honestly think Dead Man's Switch was just coincidentally changed in the PTB, completely unrelated to the basekit Pop?
-8 -
Yes.
Because the reason all the other perks got changed was because their aspects were basekitted. Tenacity lost the crawl because that was moved to basekit. OTR lost the endurance because that was moved to basekit. All the other regression perks lost a portion of their regression because that was moved to basekit.
Dead Man's Switch wasn't mechanically interlinked with the update at all, so I don't know why you think it's part of that group.
But again, even if you want to disagree with that, you are factually incorrect when you claim that I was wrong about what I said, because I specified 'regression perks' on top of that. You claimed they didn't un-nerf all the regression perks, so I want to know which regression perks I missed.
Because you can't argue that DMS and Leverage are regression perks.
(And you'll be hard-pressed to argue Leverage got nerfed at all)
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DMS is mechanically interlinked because the anti-tunnel update involved basekit gen defense. DMS and Pop are both related to gen defense.
And you're missing the point that some of the perk changes were kept because it's better for the game. OTR is supposed to be a defensive perk, and the high number of survivors weaponizing it offensively, means it's not being used for its intended purpose.
-7 -
You are trying to make this around "gen defense" when @Firellius is talking about gen regression, not the blanket idea of "gen defense." You could argue that BBQ is "gen defense" because you can focus the gens being actively worked on after securing a hook. You could argue sloppy butcher is gen defense because survivors need to spend longer healing; therefore, they spend less time on gens. "Gen defense" is too broad of a topic and can be molded to include out of scope perks, which is what's happening here.
DMS is not gen regression, which is what @Firellius has explained to you.
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Because limiting the discussion to just gen regression, gives the false impression that BHVR purposely reverted all the killer nerfs, but kept the survivor nerfs intact.
That's the actual argument. And it's false, because BHVR kept some of the killer nerfs.
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Nobody is genuinely arguing that they undid all the killer nerfs. I honestly don't know how you arrive at that conclusion after reading any of the posts here.
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Thats not the argument and you know that.
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That's literally why someone keeps mentioning the regression perks over and over and over.
By saying "every killer regression perk nerf got reverted", it's implying that every killer perk nerf that was related to the phase 2 changes, got reverted.
-10 -
You just quoted them saying "gen regression" and proceeded to take that to mean everything. That's not what it's implying at all.
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What is the purpose of repeatedly saying "gen regression", and ignoring the other killer perks that are still nerfed?
Seriously, why should we care if the gen regression perk nerfs got reverted, if some of the other killer perks nerfs are still intact?
-8 -
Because we're not talking about the other perks, we're talking about gen regression perks. That's the point. You keep trying to move the goalposts to include them, but nobody else here is talking about the other perks but you.
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Please stop replying... This is just getting sad man your cooked it's over. And flailing about and intentionally misunderstood arguments isn't helping your cause.
Regression is regression, don't read anymore into it. The statement "all killer regression perks got unnerfed" is factual. DMS is NOT a regression perk. No one said "no killer perks got nerfed" which is what your arguing against and yup you win that argument!
But alas the conversation is about gen regression. And not gen defending perks take the L and walk away.
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If we're only talking about regression perks, that means no one is allowed to mention OTR or tenacity, since neither of those perks are regression perks.
-8 -
Why do you consistently, either by sheer coincidence or purposefully, misinterpret what people are saying on here? The whole thread was created to address tenacity. The comment about gen regression was brought about because the anti tunnel and slug systems that brought some of the regression base kit were reverted, and so were their perks, yet tenacity was not and survivors can no longer recover while crawling. DMS was not made base kit at all. It's nerf is completely isolated from the gen regression situation.
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Because DMS was nerfed because of the anti-tunneling update, because the anti-tunneling update involved basekit gen defense.
This whole thread is trying to set a false narrative, that EVERY killer perk that was involved in this update, is required to be a regression perk.
-6 -
Because DMS was nerfed because of the anti-tunneling update
Source?
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I could potentially agree that it's a side effect, much like how No Mither was buffed. In the case of the latter, it's an anti-slug perk so I'm sure it was on their radar and got a pass. But it was unrelated to the proposed changes and got a change that was outside of that system.
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Are you even reading responses at this point? Several people have explained this to you ad nauseam, yet you still are regurgitating a talking point nobody here ever said. What's more is the only person here who even remotely agrees with your assessment on the matter is yourself. Again, please reread the posts once more to gain an understanding of the topic and discussion of the thread.
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