Tunneling Fatigue
Comments
-
and I've never seen a game with a learning curve like this one, particualrly for the survivor role
Yup, totally agree. The learning curve is super massive.. especially for survivors. With under 1,000 hours you’re basically still in the tutorial. There are so many little things, factors, maps, abilities, perks, possible combos, loops you have to learn, and maps you basically need to know by heart so you know how to rplay them. And DBD 2025 is pretty unforgiving toward the survivor role…there’s not much room for huge mistakes. Strong anti-loop and anti-chase powers, fewer pallets. I’m curious to see how the new update plays out.. but y.. . SOLOQ and new player lobbies needs buffs, a ton info wise.. (especially stuff that strong people avoid by nature or basic gamesnese and swfs calls out anyways) but pls.. not too much that affects high mmr lobbies. :/
1 -
Not really related to the topic at hand (yes tunneling has gone up, BHVR bringing attention to it with the anti tunnel changes they walked back on will do that), but actively never tunneling, camping, or slugging is choosing to play suboptimally.
The only proof you really need of this is to watch any competitive scrim or tournament match. You need the first survivor dead asap so that your chases go from letting 3 survivors work freely to 2, to 1. It is much harder to pop gens in a 3v1, and almost impossible in a 2v1.
You can win against bad or average players without doing it, but it’s not the best strategy to win.
-2 -
Not 100% my experience. I always aim for a quick 3v1—that’s the strongest state you can get (and most of the teams will give it to you). But if you run into groups that know this and hard-counter it, you often have to adapt first. When did I ever say ‘never tunnel/slug/etc.’? In "comp" .. torney matches, hard tunneling and slugging are basically standard. (and a proof that it has to stay) .. but .. what tournaments are you talking about? Every tournament I’ve played had pretty heavy perk/item limits on the survivor side. Even then, the first hook wasn’t always a straight tunnel if the position/area was bad. It really depends … and in public matches you often add all the perks on top that are outright banned in tournaments. This makes a huge difference.
-4 -
It only works against weak or unwilling-to-learn player … too greedy, too over-aggressive, and not paying attention to macro. against people with some game sense who don’t overextend, the strategy falls apart.and the moment we balance around players who don’t want to learn or develop macro to counter tunneling, you’d have to buff almost every killer to keep up at higher mmr lobbiesThere's a logical inconsistency here: It argues that tunneling is only effective against bad survivors, but simultaneously that killers at high MMR couldn't function without it.
2 -
another person who doesn’t get it: it heavily depends on the survivors, their setup, the first person u run into, and the playstyle they choose…plus map, rng, and a bit of luck .. where you can actually secure a down. sometimes a single 50/50 decides it. One hit connecting or nah, or whether the survivor reaches a bad zone for you, can flip the whole decision: do you tunnel off first hook or nah.
-4 -
At some point, you've got to do some introspection as to why literally everyone disagrees with you.
8 -
…and? It’s mostly newbies/casuals here. Doesn’t change my point. I’ve got my view, they’ve got theirs.
-6 -
Are we to the point where we are calling anyone who disagrees "newbies or casuals"
5 -
That doesn't actually answer in any way the logical inconsistency point. It's a non-sequitur.
Ad hominems on top of it.
6 -
its only my pov. hard tunnel happens every day, nearly ever match, and people counter it every day. It’s the go-to because it’s efficient .. and good players know. so they try to to minimize your first-tunnel value.and normally they organize it so the first person in chase isn’t the one with Shoulder, babysitter/reassurance, yada yada. good teams coordinate that most of the time too, beside the area the first down happens. y, hard tunneling is strong, this early 3.vs1 is strong, but not every time it is the best choice, depends on the team and the situation.
-7 -
phew..
there’s no contradiction or inconsistency: a strat can be the strongest and still situational/counterable.. this hard tunnel isn’t an auto-win and can be inefficient depending on the team; strong strat doesn’t mean that it is the best choice in every single situation.
and good teams know a fast 3v1 can secure you the win, so they’ll try to make that first-hook tunnel super inefficient and costy for you.. thats normal play. and good team organize around this on surv side. thats just a normal part of the game.
-5 -
You keep saying good team, can you define that?
5 -
wdym?
just good players, players who actually improve learn every mechanic, practice new stuff, learn counterplay on release. when they struggle, they dont complain, they jump into customs to grind weak spots, learn new maps, perfect pathing, and test everything at the new maps and min max every loop there or the new killers. invest some hours in pracise: and u don`t struggle the moment u get on this map. (and u know the spots where a hard tunnel most of the time is not wirth) that’s a normal good-player lobby .. not casual stuff.. i dont care about casual lobbies: i mean, they dont care either
-5 -
And what percentage of the playerbase would you say these, in your words, acceptable players make up?
6 -
there’s no contradiction or inconsistency:I'll walk through it.
Here's what you said earlier:
It only works against weak or unwilling-to-learn player … too greedy, too over-aggressive, and not paying attention to macro. against people with some game sense who don’t overextend, the strategy falls apart.Here you are saying that it only works against bad players, even players with "some game sense" beat the strategy.
Meaning that the statement which follows it:
and the moment we balance around players who don’t want to learn or develop macro to counter tunneling, you’d have to buff almost every killer to keep up at higher mmr lobbiesDoesn't make sense. If tunneling only works against "weak or unwilling to learn player", then nerfing it will have no impact on higher MMR.
Everything else in your post is unrelated.
4 -
It's part of the forum killer dogma. If you question them, it is you who is bad.
8 -
But…I am a Forum Killer :(
4 -
Question the dogma and cause a paradox, since forum killers are also, to a one, 'Top MMR'.
6 -
And then I'll have to post the stats.
and then they stop replying to me :(
7 -
"But you must be a survivor main! I haven't seen you agree with me once in the three days I've been on this forum!"
6 -
I see that from older members more often than not, to be honest.
Not a lot of people left that remember me from my super Killer-sided days.
6 -
If you ever had anything that could be called 'super killer-sided days'. I remember disagreeing with you at some point, but I've certainly never seen you make the kind of takes that seem to permeate the forums nowadays.
5 -
How are we feeling about Krasue, the first killer they designed and clearly balanced upcoming anti-tunnelling system, are you enjoying this gameplay more?
0 -
I've had my moments. I have compiled a list of posts :)
POV: Me after MMR was added and it actually worked.
Auto-ban system that was scrapped. Thank God.
There's me when Ruin got nerfed WAY back when.
Hey! There's a Console-Only Tier list from 2019!
And finally, the big tunneling strikes again.
Safe to say, yes, I had my moments as a Killer main. Glad I grew out of it, literally in a lot of cases. I've found that you get a little calmer as you get older.
7 -
they just BUTCHERED off the record. you know what. butcher is an understatement. They [insert teh most horrific thing you can image here] to Off the Record. The tunneling spike has been absolutely insane. not one match since this update (besides two memeing killers) have been free of hard tunneling. The ONE time i was not tunneled. was because i was Touka and the ghoul did not want to kill their wife from the anime. I have been showered in thanks by survivors because I have not even remotely tunneled and it gave them a break and a good match.
someone explain to me the logic of why they would coward out of an anti-tunnel update then effectively delete the one half-decent free anti-tunnel perk? Even DS (a p2w perk) is not a good anti-tunnel because half the time i loop them until its no longer active. I have had to let them down me, just so i could actually use the perk and get some distance.
Even better question. whoever approved this "balance" change on this perk needs have their employment revaluated and should have a red flag on any future video game studio applications.
I have been here since 2016-2017. I've survived the OG BNP. Infinite loops. Pallet vacuums. ACTUAL face camping. But this… this is the first time i have been genuinely furious at this game and the developers.
Like what are we supposed to do? I have to run PURE second chance perks and items to have a half-decent time.
3 -
they just BUTCHERED off the record. you know what. butcher is an understatement. They [insert teh most horrific thing you can image here] to Off the Record.
They made Off the Record play against release SM??????
6 -
Even worse than that. Imagine release skull merchant with ALL the gen regression and gen block perks with no limit on how many times they can be used
0 -
Ah, the good old days, with the old forums!
Worse, because OTR is stuck in that match for far longer than just an hour! According to Mandy, it's gonna be stuck in that match until the next bugfix patch!
2 -
Oh no.
They are making it play against Infinite Mend Legion, the only bannable bug!
3 -
It's facing down the true, final form of Forever Freddy!
2 -
I love this comment so much, just because they can release OP killers but there's never an OP survivor (unless a perk is bugged then they fix it and apologise but this never happens the other way round).
4 -
maybe five? (I mean, you often get the same SWFs 4–5 times in one evening, you get the same people very often over and over again) .. Either way, I don’t care about the rest or the mixed. They don’t want to learn. I’ve read the forums enough to stop pretending I should be considerate.. and let’s be real, they don’t care either. i mean.. I’m a pvp player. so yes: Keep up or die.
And if there’s one thing I’m thankful to the forum/afterchat or whatver .. for, it’s that it taught me to show zero consideration for sometimes bad mmr ,.. and overwhelmed players. i know the mindset of this people of this community to much. Its not my fault that at some time of the day not enough high mmr player around.. or backfill lobbies exists. Its bhvrs job at this point to bring a better mmr system and not my fault.
If this community could be in any different, i maybe could chill a bit. But this community is what it is. So y, most of the time, i just don´t care.
-5 -
even (especially) good players get over-aggressive when there’s no counter-threat. they play smart because they HAVE TO … because there’s always the threat in the background that the killer could use their full kit the moment a mistake happens. (doesnt mean its always the smartest choice for the killer, but alone that this possibilty exists force the survs to play differently/smarter)..
add more handholding and that pressure disappears. how hard is that to get? at high mmr the meta shifts toward this, which in turn forces killers to get broad buffs just to keep up.
.. big ouuf, this community..
-5 -
Are we to the point where we are calling anyone who disagrees "newbies or casuals"
he’s super new. like, 500 hours total and under 70 hours in the last four years. that’s brand new for dbd … especially for a pvp game that’s been out this long. thats just no time.
doesn’t mean i’m calling him bad — i never did. why would i? he’s just new. and has soo much to learn. and not active enough to even get into the lobbies active players see. (and lots of killer mains i know with thousands of hours don’t do that either .. they often choose to play softer/meme/more chill/whatever, sweat every g ame is just not fun for them.. i accept that).
definitely not in a position to judge my lobbies when i’m sitting at 15,000 hours and normally 100 hours in 2 weeks (and not spread under 100 h over 4 years (he is just in super super new player lobbies and has a totally different experience, doesnt mean his is less worth then mine, but im not the person downvoting everything ).
i can vouch for my lobbies and speak on them, same way he does. I share my experience, same as he does.
-5 -
Why are you quoting me when you were referring to Crogers?
3 -
You shouldn't be getting the same players that many times. MMR doesn't work like that, it hasnt since launch.
So, 5% of the playerbase dictates balance for the other 95%. As you keep saying good team, apparently a good team is exceedingly rare.
5 -
yeah, idk who they're talking to, you me or crogers
3 -
EXILED 😡🤬👺
3 -
i actually really liked this post and agree as a killer myself tunneling is lazy and boring I tried it once and got them to second hook then just let everyone go because it was too easy so really I do think lots of people should change their strategies including bhvr on their anti tunnel just keep testing till you find something that's enjoyable and solves the problem
3 -
I think its random at this point.
4 years ago I wasn't even playing (I had the chance a few times to play on other people's accounts to give the game a try and didn't care for it then). So my total hours and last 4 years would be the same.
1 -
We're getting circular in the logic.
It only works against bad players
Except good players might be aggressive, meaning they would be open to it.
This creates the obvious question, if survivors rushed to unhook were they good aggressive players or bad players?
add more handholding and that pressure disappears. how hard is that to get?How hard is it to get that I'm not even talking about this? I'm not even talking about anti-tunnel suggestions or anything like that, just that your logic is contradictory and changes to what you need it to be at the moment.
3 -
it really depends. are you trying to keep the killer in that zone? what perks are up? which killer is it? which zone it is? if people try that into my nurse, i get a tasty double down in seconds and insane value. if i’m on a normal m1, it can make sense situationally.. like if there are high-value gens elsewhere and people will actually get away (and can chase, obviously). against a small hag you can absolutely do it early, makes sense before she even sets up traps.
but y, hook rushing + insta going down is always super bad play, no matter how good their micro looks. i see it even vs nurse .. so 2 down, third person standing in los (maybe with flashy, sabo or wahtever), too. then they’re shocked when the strongest killer in the game proxies, takes this ez snacks, and the team dies at 5 gens up. that’s this community in a nutshell.-2
