http://dbd.game/killswitch
Should Vigil Affect Exposed?
Now bear with me. I'm making this a discussion and not a suggestion because I am on the fence about this myself, so I figured I'd toss it out to the community.
I don't think it's controversial to say that the main reason most people bring Vigil is because it helps you recover from Exhausted faster- that's both a very strong effect, and far more in your control as a survivor. Still, the fact that it does help with a bunch of other status effects is good, and can be really impactful in some scenarios.
Because the main strength is Exhausted, I think it's worth putting more scrutiny onto what else Vigil actually lessens the strength of on the killer end.
Mostly, I believe these effects are fairly nice but not incredible. Recovering from Blindness, Mangled, Oblivious, etcetera faster doesn't usually affect the perks those effects are associated with all too heavily in my opinion. Exposed, though, really is far more impactful.
I first started thinking about this when I was testing Ravenous on the PTB (the one that grants Exposed after first-hooking everyone, for reference) and noticed that I successfully was in a position to make use of the perk on the tail end of its activation… and Vigil had caused the survivor to recover with a pretty big chunk of the perk-icon timer remaining, leaving a one-time-activation perk a completely dead slot even though I should've been able to get value from it.
Obviously, one instance of one perk being countered by Vigil isn't much evidence of anything, but it got me thinking about how this could easily be a pattern considering that there are a good few perks that have their main chunk of value be Exposed activated on a timer.
Just doing a quick ctrl + F + "Exposed" and looking only at the ones with a timer reveals:
Dragon's Grip, Friends Til The End, Haunted Grounds, Hubris, Iron Maiden, Make Your Choice, Ravenous, and Starstruck (sorta).
Now, not all of those have Exposed on a timer as their main focus, but a good chunk of them do. My question is this:
Is Vigil affecting those perks in a way more harsh than the way it affects other perks (EG, it affects Mindbreaker, but nowhere near as harshly as it affects Haunted Grounds) healthy for the game?
I could see it breaking either way. Perks are supposed to do something and shortening the window to capitalise on those perks is hypothetically worthwhile, but at the same time, it already has other very strong niches and doesn't tend to affect other perks that strongly. Additionally, there are only two perks in the game (Dramaturgy and Shoulder the Burden) that a player could actively use this effect on, so it's a gamble if you'll even get this strong effect at all.
The perk already has a built-in restriction of not affecting killer powers, so it's not as bad as it could be, but I do feel there's still a real discussion here.
What do you all think? Is Vigil packing such hard heat against Exposed perks on top of its powerful use with Exhaustion + the other minor use cases reasonable, or would the perk be more reasonable to balance with the Exposed cut out?
Comments
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I think Vigil just needs a total rework. Make it a lantern (like in the perk icon) that gives its effects within a certain radius or something instead of being a permanent passive bonus that just encourages uninteractive gameplay (Sprint Burst spam) and counters (silently, I might add) perks that are already kinda niche.
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Exposed might be fine with vigil, but this perk still affects killers status effect like slowdown from Freddy’s power, when it supposed not to
It would be great if killer can get some kind of notification about vigil being used tbh…
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A lot of low-tier/M1 Killers kinda need every second of that Exposed timer; even experienced Ghostface players sometimes have the Exposed effect run out in chase.
It would unfairly punish M1 Killers, in my view, and they're already not doing great as it is.
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Ghostface power isn’t affected by Vigil. I can say it by playing him kinda a lot.
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I know, I'm just using him as an example.
Giving Survivors the ability to shorten Exposed timers will have a significant effect on the viability of Exposed perks and M1 Killers, even if it doesn't seem like it at first.
Weak Killers simply can't dish out hits very quickly most of the time, so a shortened Exposed timer could mean making Exposed perks completely useless on them.
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That’s kinda fair.
Tbh I think not really a lot of survivors gonna be mad if devs will remove vigil affecting other status.
Choosing between everything but like 40% of recover and 60% but Exhausted only majority may chose last one. I can’t say a lot because don’t use exposed build as killer and currently gave up playing M1 ones. Current patch low key killed Sadako with such pallet density. She is still playable but u are unlikely to be able do something meaningful against good teams
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Vigil needs a bigger nerf than just removing the exposed status effect. Currently, the perk makes ~30 perks, ~30 addons, and two killers useless by just it's existence - you just have to equip it and that's it. In addition, it also gives teammates a fifth perk slot due to its 16 meter radius and 15 seconds lingering, which means these perks, addons, and killers are not specific against a Vigil user weak but once a survivor has it in the party. Thus limits the already small build variety on the killer side even more and results in seeing the same build over and over again. Lastly, the perk makes already strong and easy to use exhaustion perks in Lithe and Sprint Burst even more easier to use. The perk is just overall unhealthy and that's for free.
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…Which killers? It doesn't affect killer powers, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
I'm also curious about the rest of that list too, really, the perks and addons. I think that might be a little overstated.
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I think Vigil is fine, especially after the stacking nerf.
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I would be against removing Exposed from Vigil entirely. I think Vigil's recovery percentage is just overtuned and should be brought down a bit. The issue with Vigil is not the number of status effects it impacts, but rather that it impacts those effects a little too much imo given how many there are, and basically for free as well. It's a little too strong for being a completely passive effect that affects as many perks and addons as it does.
They removed Vigil stacking with itself in this last update but I feel like that actually was the wrong nerf to make, the stacking wasn't the problem with it and never was an issue with old Vigil, until it got overbuffed to begin with.
I do see what you mean with it affecting Exposed a bit more heavily than perhaps some other status effects due to its nature, but in a way it's pretty similar with its impact on Mangled as well for example especially if someone is on the hook for a while, the last 40% or so of the duration (the piece that Vigil effectively removes) is often the part that actually matters most when it comes time to heal that survivor, so it's not really just Exposed that gets hit by that kind of thing. Whereas with something like Exhaustion, or even Oblivious for example, that's generally still having a real impact for at least a little while, even if it doesn't last as long. Either way though, I don't think the fact that it affects Exposed in general is a problem.
It does affect the basekit hinder on certain killers (Clown, Freddy, Nemesis) but not others, so it's not actually consistent. Unknown, Houndmaster, and Skull Merchant are not affected. I know the wiki says it generally doesn't at all, but it's wrong.
As for how many perks and addons it affects, assuming I didn't miss anything I came up with this:
- 14 survivor perks (11 exhaustions + Deliverance + FTP + Shoulder)
- 27 killer perks (Alien Instinct, Blood Echo, Dragon's Grip, Forced Hesitation, Forced Penance, FTTE, Genetic Limits, Hex: Haunted Ground, Hex: Nothing but Misery, Hex: Retribution, Hubris, Hysteria, Iron Maiden, Knockout, Languid Touch, MYC, Mindbreaker, Nemesis, No Quarter, Ravenous, Gift of Pain, Septic Touch, Sloppy, Starstruck, Terminus, Ultimate Weapon, Weave Attunement)
- 76 killer addons (too many to list)
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Freddy and Clown https://x.com/KuhssirYT/status/1947299039940063301?t=Fr9GRZpIo7ta_fkBA4WUsA&s=19 (this hasn't changed yet)
These are all the perks that have a time based status effect (if I don't have forgotten any of them) and these are only from the killer side. It's actually 27 which is pretty close to my round about 30 and can we not already agree that it's insane that one perk counters so many perks for free and even for your teammates?
Dragon's Grip, Make Your Choice, Ravenous, Haunted Ground, Iron Maiden, Starstruck, FTTE, Hubris
Sloppy Butcher, Gift of Pain,
Fearmonger, Ultimate Weapon,
Blood Echo
Force Peanance
Genetic Limits, Languid Touch, Overwhelming Precense, Septic Touch,
Alien Instinct, Hysteria, Retribution, Nemesis, Weave Attunement
Nothing But Misery, Knock Out, Forced Hesitation
I'm not gonna list all addons because that is way too much but here are links to lists that show you all the addons that apply a status effect.
Mangeled addons
Haemorrhage addons (thus most of them also apply Mangled so you have to keep that in mind when counting them)
Blindness addons
Broken addons
Exhaustion addons
Oblivious addons
Hindered addons
Exposed
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Sure, but a perk can have a timed status effect attached to it and still be perfectly fine in the face of Vigil.
Take Fearmonger and Gift of Pain as the biggest examples here. Fearmonger's main strength is twofold; survivors are unable to read auras while repairing generators, and survivors have Exhaustion applied as they run away from a generator if you interrupt their repair.
Vigil doesn't affect either of those things, at all. A single second of Exhaustion is enough for that to be useful in Fearmonger's use cases, and the lingering Blindness doesn't really matter at all.Then take Gift of Pain. The main strength of Gift of Pain is that healing up applies a whopping 14% slowdown to generator repair until injured again, forcing survivors to either stay injured for gen speed or heal up and be less effective at progressing their objective for it.
The Mangled timer being slightly lower doesn't actually matter at all. This perk could not have Mangled and it'd still be a top tier powerful perk.A perk being affected by Vigil isn't even close to the same as a perk being made useless by Vigil. That's kind of why I'm making this post- I think it's a pretty fair effect leveraged against most perks, but I'm really on the fence if it's fair against Exposed, because the perks which give timed Exposed tend to be more harshly hit by Vigil than pretty much any other killer perk.
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I don't understand why they changed Vigil from the 30% effect. It was a very good perk and did not need any changes. Now it became quite problematic since it counters many perks in the game and even some killer powers like the ones from Freddy and Clown.
They really should revert Vigil 30% effect, maybe keeping the 16m range effect on allies.
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Unironically, turning it into a boon with the current 66% effect wouldn't be a bad thing (if they want to keep the current effect).
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Getting rid of the (not even) five seconds exhaustion from Fearmonger is super easy during chase - during a vault, holding check point, or by just letting go when you know the killer comes to you and you cannot finish the gen.
GoP is not a top tier perk, it's mid (limited due to scourge Hook, relies on support, useless when you need to tunnel/camp/slug, healing slowdown still gets countered by healing perks, and 70 seconds hooktimer hurts it too). True, survivors have to make a decision between staying injured or work slower on gens but they still can stay injured on generators and then heal once the timers are over (quicker thanks to Vigil) , which is important when it comes to endgame.
The fact is still there that one perk makes 27 perks, 76 addons, and two killers weaker or even useless and this should not be the case. A perk should never affect so many things on the one side for free while giving teammates a fifth perk (and even more when we also count survivor perks that become even more easier to use).
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i never really thought it was that powerful but then again I always use it as survivor but never get affected by it as killer since I don't use effect builds
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