http://dbd.game/killswitch
Survivors run at 400% movement speed
I've seen this argument used more than a few times, and since it was not addressed in the thread proper, I feel a need to address it here openly, least the mindset become infectious.
"Survivors run at 400% movement speed" has been used as an argument against the observation that "killers need to fight against 16 perks" because a survivor team is made of four members that each have 4 perks, thus a total of 16. The logic is that, since the strengths of the survivors are being added together, all strengths should be added together, ergo, their movement speed should be "combined" and observed as a total of 400% for argument's sake.
This is incorrect, but it is incorrect for the reason the argument tries to make anyway. When it is said that "killers are fighting against 16 perks" it isn't because they're being added to eachother as an aggregate of survivor strength, it is because each individual perk is powerful in a vacuum as a detriment to the single killer.
Lets use MoM as an example. On its own, MoM is one additional health level through the duration of a trial. If a survivor takes a hit, then runs in a straight line away from the killer and takes no other actions, the killer will down that survivor again in 22 seconds.
In the average scenario of the average killer, this means that each instance of MoM in a trial will reduce the killer's clock to complete their objective by 22 seconds. Since four survivors can each take MoM once, that is a potential -88 seconds for the killer to act in the trial to complete their goal, minimum. Considering some are reporting trials ending in as little as 4 minutes, this is a decrease in the killer's total time to complete their objective by 33%, for something that takes no additional skill or effort on part of the survivor except equipping the perk at the select screen.
This is the reason that "16 perks" are debilitating, because they arn't 16 perks that make the survivors stronger, they are 16 perks that make the killer *weaker*
It could be argued that Mettle of Man could be read as a "negative perk" on the killer's behalf.
"When you hit the same survivor three times in a trial, your next hit will deal 0 damage."
It is an abstraction to consider that a killer would have something like that applied to their character, but that is essentially what survivor perks like this are, pure numerical negatives to the killer's function.
Yes, it is a "perfect scenario" that 4 survivors will run 4 second chance perks and insta heals and they will all activate, resulting in 20 additional hits for the killer to have to take, but they don't need to.
If the survivors take a sum total of 14 second chance effects. MoM, Adrenaline, Instant Heals, et al between them, then they add an artificial 5 minutes to the match. 5 minutes the killer can do nothing about, 5 minutes that is purely to the detriment of the killer's time. Most matches are over at 5 minutes, and the killer has yet to even be able to overcome the artifical deficit forced onto them by the survivors perk and/or item selections.
This is why second chance perks are viewed by killers with so much dread, because they don't make survivors better. They make killers worse and a single second chance perk can have its effectiveness literally quadrupled at the cost of a single perk slot each.
TL;DR "16 perks" are debilitating because each individual perk has to be handled one at a time, and each perk is devastating on its own. They add together sequentially, because the killer is the one who has to work through them each individually and there is only one killer to do that.
Comments
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I agree with your points, but I would sum the 400% movement speed argument like this, "The killer only chases 1 survivor, making that one survivor sprint at 100% speed, you do not chase all 4 at once to make 400%"
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Killers hate second chance perks because the killers don't typically have enough time to try and deal with multiples of them. If you're facing SWF, which typically contains multiple perks like that, you're likely facing decent players. Your Ruin will either die quickly, or be powered through in split gens with solo repairs--which it has almost no effectiveness against.
Why the developers are completely okay with split-gen rushing, they have yet to explain, but this is the hill they chose to die on with the game's design.
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The game is so much easier than it was a year ago for killers that the ones with a victim complex that, lets be honest, seem to suck are running out of legit complaints.
Thats what you're seeing.
The base game with 4 solo players is fine now. The only legit complaints are about organised SWF players.
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And yet most people play swf because solo queue sucks.
Every respectable game balances around the best players, why does this one try to balance to some preconceived notion of "what happens in most games"?
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Perhaps the rank system does need to be re-balanced, then.
There are a dis-proportionally high amount of SWF groups in high rank play, but the more effective a killer is, the more likely they are to run into them, until they are near the only thing the given killer player plays against.
But there's no real way for the killer to escape that fate just for playing well without intentionally abusing the system to derank to get to less sweaty survivors.
Suffice to say, it isn't fun. You play the game well and enjoy yourself and your sole reward are longer and longer lobby wait times and less enjoyable matches against more abusive opponents.
What's the motivation to play and get better at the game with that?
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I'd rather play those sweaty survivors than the clueless run from pallets and into dead zones. Ill never understand how deranking killers can enjoy that.
The ranking system has always punished good players on both sides. If youre a survivor better get used to bbq billy or nurse every game because killer variety is dead even with signifficantly more killers being viable nowadays.
If youre a killer wave goodbye to survivors using various builds with different strengths and say hello to sprint burst adrenaline self care and bt.
Whats worse is they've been saying they want to make ranking up worthwhile for over a year now and nothing.
The rank reset alone makes playing both sides unbearable for me as a solo survivor and killer. Just a bloodpoint or shard bonus while at the lower ranks. Or increased rewards as a solo player could help fix this imo.
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It is easier in some areas.
But playing survivor is much easier and SWF is a cake walk. This is an asymmetrical competitive MP game. The 4 side of the equation should have to work together optimally to stand a chance against the 1. But in this game the 4 side has such strong perks and game design they can literally stave off the killer for most of or an entire match thanks to super strong loops and the perks.
Idk if anyone ever played Evolve but imagine if the Medic in Evolve could go toe to toe with a monster and survive LOL.
Killers need more time to stand a chance at high level. Adding perks that decrease the time they have to work with is the exact opposite of what the devs should be doing.
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I have played Evolve, and Paladin Parnell could do just that with a stage 2 monster (and I did it, many times), prior to his nerf. After his nerf, he could still do it, but not indefinitely. No wonder that game died.
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And Evolve was dead within months of release. If the survivors all had to coordinate perfectly to stand a slightest chance of winning against the killer in a game with practically zero levels of interaction between survivors you would struggle to fill lobbies. And if it did have that communication you can be damn sure the vocal minority of bad killers on these forums would be kicking and screaming about that too.
A significant portion of those 'super strong loops' were heavily nerfed in a map update when the clown released and bamboozle was added alongside that to competely shut down any survivors who tried to abuse the longer vault loops. Some maps still have problems but they are still worse off thanks the the bloodlust update.
Not saying that those time wasting tactics arent still there. But after the loop nerfs. Spirit fury. Bamboozle the ds nerf and the healing speed nerf if you're still gerting looped for multiple gens by one survivor i dont think the game is to blame.
You are.
Im not trying to start fights here. Just speaking my mind. I dont know if these people complaining are new and just havent figured the game out yet. But ive been playing for nearly two years and these "optimal survivor groups" are one in a million.
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Oh god, really? Do you really take me serious on this?
Afaik I am the only person who stated this (at least I have not seen any other post), and it is just stupidity to fight stupidity.
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If you played any monster and stood your ground alone then that monster player was doodoo, plain and simple. Outside of being the last hunter left in Arena, where you’re specifically buffed so that you CAN do massive damage to monsters, you stand no chance going 1v1. As it should be in a 4v1 in basically every asymmetrical game outside of DbD :)
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Strong loops never went away.
No perks will save you on Coldwind maps from survivors watching you through walls, or on the new Temple map as survivors run from one safe pallet to another. The only thing that can save you is picking only the most sweaty killers and loadouts :)
And survivor skill depends on rank, especially now that it’s hard for survivors to pip. As a red rank killer I get tons of people who know how to loop. And I play on console so on top of super effective loops you can throw in garbage frame rates that make you miss even the easiest situations like hitting a survivor vaulting a pallet right into you 😆
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Nope, monster player was good (though not top-tier). However, note that it was "indefinite" in the sense that I had more than enough time to wait for reinforcements. After his nerf, it was a coin flip as to whether I could withstand the assault long enough to get reinforcements or not. The only exception was a friend of mine, who was a god-tier Behemoth with god-tier perks.
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All killers complaining about balance are just killers who want easy 4ks
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"The game is so much easier than It was a year ago"
Main reason why playing killer is a pain in the ass? Gen rush.
Gen rush is at the same stage as It was a year ago so your hole point is invalid...
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There are several perks to help prevent gen rush.
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But we have more options than ever to combat it? Sloppy butcher, weasel, shortr chase perks that let us down
Again this just sounds like a killer who doesnt know how to spread pressure on survivors and isnt aware of the many perks that can be used to help with it and just complaining.
No amount of buffs can help a player that refuses to see their faults and improve.
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It's not like the killer doesn't have ways to equalize the equation. Pink mori alone is more powerful than any combination of survivor perks. DS is worthless against it. So is MoM. BT can delay it. You could argue it's an offering and not a perk therefore you don't always have it, but 1) you don't ALWAYS need it, only for SWF groups and only for the top tier ones at that, and 2) it's honestly not hard to keep a ready supply of them. I have like 20+ on my main killers, and a decent amount on killers I don't main. Freddy is the only killer I don't have a lot of pink mori's only because I would use them all the time for this one build and I already had all the perks so I never dumped BP into him to replenish my supply (or at least not until a new killer comes out, and then only enough to get the new perks).
Then there's NOED. Ruin and NOED combo is incredibly strong, borderline overpowered, because it forces survivors to looking for a specific totem at the start and have all totems done by the end. And there are other very strong killer perks. I know a lot will disagree with me here, but Dying Light is crazy powerful. Besides the fact of what it does, when it procs it also means someone is dead. While it might be difficult to find and kill the obsession, some killers do have tools to do it much faster (Freddy for example, has 2 methods; Black Box and more potent Class Photo... Legion is another killer that can potentially find the obsession quickly). If you proc Dying Light when survivors have anything more than 2 gens left most of the time that is enough to just stop the game in it's tracks.
Then there are add-ons. Insta-saw, insta-hatchets (which is getting nerfed but still), omega blink, extra blinks, Prayer Beads, Mint Rag, shackles, infinite EW, tombstone, Iri King, Iri Stone, Frank's mixtape, Class Photo.
Point is killers have a LOT to even the playing field, in some cases even put the odds in their favor. Survivors would literally have no way to compete UNLESS they are in SWF with stacked perks. Any killer that uses this stuff against solos will body them, and if you don't sorry to say you are a bad killer. Like I play Spirit at rank 1 without PB, NOED, mostly without Ruin, and I don't camp or tunnel and I completely destroy solo groups. SWF groups are the only ones that give me a challenge and even then I tend to win more than I lose. It's to the point where I don't even want to bother with Ruin on some killers because I feel like it makes the game too easy. I even give out freebies often and STILL win. Slug people on death hook just to give them another chance. Let survivors unhook right in front of me and go for the rescuer instead. Sometimes I even go stand in a corner and let survivors do gens so hatch can spawn, and kill all but 1 and let them hatch. Drop reset someone when I literally have the game WON just to keep playing. STILL DOUBLE PIP EZ. Like @gibblywibblywoo said before, I really don't get how killers can derank and get enjoyment out of playing bad survivors that offer 0 challenge. I might as well go play a single player game at that point.
Some stuff still needs fixing for killers, but there is this gang mentality around here that survivors should be nerfed into the dirt and killers buffed beyond belief. No. The game is in a good place right now in terms of balance. Yes, they need to fix the textures on Coldwind maps so they are not see through. Yes, they need to do something about end game and the hatch. But there is a lot of BS on survivor side too. I can count on 1 hand since 2.6 rolled out, the number of killers that did NOT hard tunnel the first guy they caught. It's obscene, and these killers get to red ranks using a very skillless tactic. Killer mains will argue "don't get caught" yea well if a killer wants you badly enough you will get caught. If they are really bad or you are really good you can run from them all game, but those are rare and extreme circumstances. Most killers find the worst survivor in the group and do this. Once you catch them the first time, there really is no running away from you. If you patrol the hook and are right there when they get saved, they are going down again very quickly. "Oh but survivors focus on their objectives why can't killers do it" yea, a gen is not a person. If a survivor rushes a gen they aren't directly effecting another player in the process. You could argue it affects killer, but not in the same way because killer is still in the game and can play to stop you from doing another one. Also, doing gens is literally just holding a button. There's no significant level of dynamics going on. You hold a button and press another button sometimes. A chase however is all about the survivor v killer dynamic. It's not a simple "hold button" there's a lot that goes on in a chase.
Fact of the matter is that killer is quite powerful 95% of the time. The only time killer is on the back foot is against top tier survivors (usually in an SWF) using top tier perks, ESPECIALLY if the killer frequently uses the strongest gear they have and/or employs the easiest tactics they can. And I feel like most killers that say to survivors "just do this" as a counter tactic do not play survivor at red ranks. If they did, they would realize how dumb such a comment is. Like killers always say "just break totems" as a way to counter NOED. Have you ever actually tried to do this WHEN PLAYING SOLO? Was it against a GOOD killer? Was the killer using the best gear they have? Was the killer camping/tunneling? If the answer to all these questions is not "YES" then you have no right to make such statements, sorry. Because anyone that has actually been in this situation knows how much of a detriment it is to find all 5 totems by yourself against a GOOD killer using GOOD gear that camps/tunnels survivors out of the game as fast as they can. It's just not practical. This besides the fact you can't control other survivors as a solo. If they rush gens before you got all the totems, well GG here's a NOED for your face. Oh and if you get a map like swamp, Lery's, Game, Haddonfield, or Preschool you will take AGES to find all the totems. By the time you do everyone will be dead.
IMHO the game needs to force players to play both sides. No exceptions. Players that actually play 50/50 see the REAL problems with the game. Like I don't get mad at NOED, I don't get mad at campers, I get a little upset with tunnelers won't lie (but only if the situation doesn't call for it, I can understand a killer deciding to tunnel someone when there is 1 gen left and no one is dead), I don't get mad at loopers, I don't get mad at DS or MoM, I don't get mad at flashlights. Like very few things actually bother me in this game anymore because I play both sides. I can understand why players do certain things. "We did gens really fast, this guy is gonna camp I don't blame him" or "this survivor is on death hook and all his friends are trying to body block me or FL me to save them, I don't blame them". Too many people that play this game lack any sort of perspective. They just see things from one side and get super toxic perpetuating these problems even more. It honestly needs to stop. YES the devs need to fix some things, but Jesus tapdancing Christ, some people just need to get better at the game. Know how you do that? By playing the game IN ITS ENTIRETY so that you can understand it better AND by challenging yourself against tougher opponents. Sit at rank 15 and play against baby solo survivors/killers all day and you won't get better, more likely you will just get worse.
Post edited by thesuicidefox on1 -
Again this is a survivor who doesnt know what the real problem is...
You can have all 4 survivors hurt but that doesnt mean they'll heal, most survivors just rush gens and get adrenaline instead of healing...
Know your role before posting sh*t like "oh you dont know how to preassure"
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What can I say? I was tired of watching you be stupid.
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You know if theyre injured you can end the chase in one hit right? Holy scoot you what rank are you.
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Omfg, you are just kidding right now...
You know they are just doing gens around the map, right? What difference does It make if I can hit them just once if they are not at my grasp? Do you think killers are omnipresent or something like that? As soon as they hear the hartbeat they just go to first loop they find, end of the problem.
You want to know my rank? Invite me on Ps4, I have the same usser name there, I'll show you my survivor and killer rank, we'll see what's your rank and how you play then.
Are you seriously joking about my rank when you are the one who's new to this forum..? Unvelievable.
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