http://dbd.game/killswitch
I can’t believe survivors are ok with being treated like this
Comments
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i bought the new survivor with shards. I’m not spending a dime more on this game until they stop this nonsense purposeful death spiral.
Stop paying them.
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when people make flatly ridiculous arguments like "Doing gens is just as difficult as anything Killer does",
You are the only one saying this.
The entire discussion started with the debate of whether "killer or survivor has the easier gameplay", to which you shifted the goal post to "doing gens takes no skill", and then completely ignored like 7 people who tried various ways to correct that "doing gens is not the only thing survivors must be able to do to win".
As much as this is overused in this forum, you are committing a textbook straw man with this.
You are the one engaging dishonestly.
You are ignoring the points that people are making.
You are seemingly having a conversation with yourself half the time, responding to either the wrong people, or just inventing discussion points because you feel like it.
Nearly every single comment of yours is either completely ignoring that others have spoken, or simply projecting.
Even attempting to give the benefit of the doubt that you honestly, truly believe the words you write, you aren't actually engaging in discussion. You're just having a conversation with yourself, and everyone else is just spectating.
ETA: since you down voted this within seconds of posting, you're just waiting for any kind of engagement. I made room on my ignore list for you, and recommend others do similarly. Good luck in your future endeavors.
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Who said "Doing gens is not the only thing Survivors need to be able to do in order to win"? Point me to them.
Because that wasn't the point I was arguing against. Every time I said some variation of "Doing gens is easy", every reply was some variation of "No, it isn't".
Why do you think I fixated on that so much? It's an argument that only a fantasist with no grasp on reality or a liar would make.
Besides, "Doing gens is not the only thing Survivors need to be able to do in order to win" doesn't even conflict with my overall argument that Survivor is the easier role; if a significant portion of your time every match is spent doing something easy and almost mindless, that's clearly a sign that playing Survivor is easy.
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"saying a role that can literally spend an entire match doing nothing but moving from Point A to Point B and holding M1 is more difficult is disingenuous at best"
If that's all survivors are doing, then the killer isnt doing a very good job
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It's not that hard; all you really gotta do is play a passive, gen jockey-unhooker-healer style of Survivor.
Sometimes the Killer finds you first, of course, but other games (Even against fairly competent Killers), you can spend the entire match just holding M1 and doing rescues/heals in peace. It's what I tend to do when I want to play as relaxed of a match as possible.
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If literally everyone is disagreeing with you and thinks you're being over-the-top maybe you should reassess.
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This is a bandwagon argument, and there's a reason it's a logical fallacy.
This forum is little more than a Survivor main echo chamber. If your post makes Killer look bad or Survivor look good, you get lots of upvotes and everyone will agree with you, no matter how rude, dishonest or logically unsound it may be.
If your post does the opposite, however, even if you're simply stating the obvious, you can expect tons of downvotes, people calling you all sorts of rude names, twisting your words, making wild accusations… not exactly the best environment for diversity of thought.
Why would I listen to people who tell me I'm wrong and call me rude names no matter what I say or do, unless I uncritically praise Survivor and badmouth Killer?
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So you think none of these people you've been arguing with play and understand the Killer role and only care about Survivor?
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If they do, they're clearly not interested in expressing an opinion that could be construed as pro-Killer or anti-Survivor on the forums.
Which is a bit understandable; it takes a certain amount of bravery to make a post knowing damn well that it'll be downvoted to oblivion.
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This forum is little more than a Survivor main echo chamber.
Excuse me?
Were you around when the 9.2.0 PTB was announced in the start of this month?
It was pretty much nothing but killer mains defending tunneling.19 -
That may have been the case then, but I certainly can't say the same now.
I literally got downvoted 6 times for posting a competitive replay, one which proved that the point I was making was objectively correct (My point was that DbD comp isn't all just tunneling).
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"Bravery" is quite the word choice for this particular situation. But maybe it's not that everyone but you is wrong. Maybe people just aren't as outrageously biased towards your very, very obviously favored role and are considering the game as a whole.
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I've received multiple downvotes in this thread even when I was making points that are objectively correct.
For example, I posted this competitive replay to prove that DbD comp isn't all just hard tunneling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqkbvsyC-hg
And nobody came out to agree with me over it- or indeed, ever brought it up again. They did hit the "Disagree" button 6 times, though. For what, exactly? Please give me a good explanation, because I'm drawing a blank.
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Who cares about downvotes? Are they affecting your life? They mean nothing.
They're not objectively correct. You're wording is twisting Survivor gameplay to your view. You're trying to paint the more technical and info-heavy role as easy, which it isn't, unless the Killler is in a coma. If it were easy, Survivors would win more than they lose.
And people are tired of, "here, watch this content creator." Video links consistently get downvotes.
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…bravery?
I think we have startling different ideas of bravery.
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I don't care about downvotes, obviously, or I wouldn't still be here.
But are you really going to try and argue that everyone who disagrees with me has only the best intentions in mind when, even in cases where the facts objectively disagree with Survivors' prejudices, the actual facts are simply dismissed out of hand?
That wasn't a content creator's video, that was a replay from DbDLeague. Literal video proof of what I was saying.
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Clearly.
I'd say how much bravery I think you possess, but I really don't think I'm capable of that kind of nastiness.
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You clearly do care somewhat, as you've been crashing out about them over the last few comments.
I've mostly just seen you enter hyperbole or anecdotal statements that you pass off as fact and perhaps it seems that way, in your own bubble.
Do try to step outside it..
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If you think bravery can be accurately assessed by a video game forum, you may be sorely disappointed in life.
I worry for you, truly, if that is your mindset.
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Why don't you take your own advice, mate? The forums are not now, nor have they ever been free of biases. Least of all now when they're mostly just a Survivor echo chamber.
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Oh, it doesn't take all that much bravery, I know. Just enough bravery to be willing to say something when everyone around you was telling you not to.
I could talk about some of the other things I do that I'd consider brave, but that's getting off-topic.
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If you don't care, then don't pat yourself on the back for your "bravery."
Just the wording of "Survivors' prejudices" shows your own so starkly. Survivors aren't a political fraction or an ethnic group, they're a role in a video game. Many people do, in fact, like both roles. I know few people who only play one side of this game. And even if you lean towards one, you can still speak for the other in an honest and observant way.
Nobody wants to watch all these videos.
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I do.
I still frequent the DBDKiller subreddit. Still keep up with news and such, still try things out for myself. Thats what made me a great Killer player, always trying new things.
Forums have been fairly balanced these last few years, believe it or not. There's only a few hard-core mains left, most people play either side
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Well, if you took a breather and took in some context of what is causing the survivor players to echo in this "chamber", you'd have stopped mentioning it all the time now, wouldn't you?
I've said it before, and I will say it again: Survivors has been complaining since the release of 9.2.0 (and during the PTB test period when it got known that anti-tunnel got postponed), because this patch which was supposed to fix the one thing that has been most frustrating for survivor players to deal with for many years at this point, turned out to be the inverse instead. Of course that causes EVEN more frustration.
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Be that as it may, a bad patch is no excuse to be lazy, dishonest, or dogpile anyone who dares to say something negative about Survivor or positive about Killer.
If you're not interested in discussing the nuances of Dead by Daylight as a game and just want to vent, that's valid, but don't pretend it's more than that.
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I mean, all right? I guess? Nobody was really telling you not to, more just that what you were saying was either illogical or flat-out wrong. It's a discussion forum, you're allowed to post whatever even if it's a terrible take. God knows @Sluzzy was the original rage-baiter.
Callous though it may sound, I really don't care to discuss you as a person. I have approximately zero interest in that, as so far as I can tell, I am on a video game discussion board and that is what I intend to discuss.
I would suggest, however, that you refrain from judgements about people's character based on interactions on the forums.
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I think I may understand what you’re saying, but here’s where I think the issue lies. It feels like you’re equating “arguments I think are ridiculous” with “arguments made in bad faith.” That’s not always the same thing. You may disagree strongly with other perspective, but that doesn’t mean they’re being dishonest or trolls.
To better understand your perspective, let me ask: Let’s say my position is the opposite of yours, that I genuinely believe survivor takes more skill than cookie clicker. How could I explain that view in a way you would accept as good faith? What would separate me, in your eyes, from someone you’d dismiss as dishonest or trolling?
Right now the way most of your comments come across feels like the only arguments you’ll consider “reasonable” are the ones that don’t directly conflict with your own. That kind of implication makes it feel pointless or impossible to have a productive discussion, since any perspective that challenges yours can just be written off as bad faith.
I’d really appreciate you helping me understand the best way to communicate these disagreements in a way that feels respectful, honest, and receptive for both perspectives.
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Sluzzy was just more fun... :(
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Sluzzy was diabolical. I do miss him, but my God was he crazy for those takes back then.
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This tone, aggression, and insult hurling isn't exactly winning people over to your side.
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Well, to start, please do not misrepresent what I said.
I used the Cookie Clicker comparison in the context of doing gens. Of course Survivor as a role consists of more than just holding M1 at a generator, but the act of holding M1 at a generator, in and of itself, is not significantly more complex than playing Cookie Clicker.
Could I have specified that? Maybe. But given the way people have engaged with me thus far, I get the impression that people will still misunderstand or misrepresent what I've said no matter painstakingly and thoroughly I try to convey my exact meaning.
Escape rate statistics are a stronger argument, but if you'll look back through the thread, I already explained why that line of thinking is flawed; it's possible for a game to both be easy and have you lose frequently. Otherwise, we could call slot machines "difficult" games because the odds of winning are stacked against you. That seems to be part of how the conversation went off the rails, because people simply refused to concede that point.
Another stronger argument is pointing out Survivors' performance at higher skill levels, but again, I already pointed out the flaws in that line of thinking; a character with a low skill floor and low skill cap like Wraith, Legion or Bubba requires a LOT of skill to do well with at high levels- does that mean they are difficult Killers? And if they are, then what does an "easy" Killer look like? Which is another reason I feel comfortable in saying Survivor is the easier role.
Which is why I started to get the impression that people were not arguing with me in good faith. When their best arguments were put down, people began resorting to more ridiculous arguments like "Doing gens is as hard as anything Killer does".
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And why should I let you tell me how to act? I have no reason to believe you have my best interests in mind or are trying to be helpful.
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I'm not telling you how to act, I'm telling you why you're getting downvoted. You're belittling a huge chunk of the playerbase and you're acting like you deserve the Medal of Honor for it.
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Say whatever you please.
I will say, this, though: It's pretty scummy that you tried to paint everyone who downvoted or badmouthed me as simply having a good-faith disagreement when we both know that's not true.
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Survivor is only as easy as the killer allows it to be. You've said before that you tunnel, so I can understand why you'd think survivor is easy when every game you pretty much leave 3 survivors with nothing much to do.
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Yup. Unless you tack on “btw I never camp, tunnel, or slug, I’m super chill,” you get insta-downvoted. The mental gymnastics are wild. . i… i´m so tired of ths forum.. i wish i just can say i dont care, but this people want to dominate balance discussions..
Survivor is — and always has been — the chillest role in this game.
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Most of the time, I don't even pay attention to hook states, meaning tunneling will inevitably occur in my games, either intentionally or unintentionally.
I literally play Survivor regularly; I'm vastly more relaxed playing Survivor than Killer, win or lose. Are you going to try and dismiss my subjective experience?
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Again with the insults. Not everything is a conspiracy or a manipulation against you.
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It sounds like it is affecting your mental health, friend.
There's no sense in torturing yourself, you've got to look out for you after all. Take a break, decompress.
DBD isn't everything.
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I know. That's why I only call it out when I see that people actually are being dishonest or manipulative.
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I played both roles for 4 years until I quit survivor at the beginning of the year and now just play killer. Is your experience more valid than mine?
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Again, if everyone is on the opposite side of you and that means they're dishonest and manipulative then the problem might be you.
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No. So let's get into the nitty-gritty: Apart from vibes, what specifically makes you think Survivor is the harder role?
Also, are you playing low-tier or high-tier Killers? Because it's worth noting that I almost exclusively play mid-tiers.
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Why would I? I’m having my funtime clean-wiping people who show zero gamesense, zero movement, zero understanding .. just 10,000 empty words,.. its fun speeedrunning this lobbies afap and send them with 0 gns done back in the lobby. IThe rest is not worth anymore, but i always find it funny what happens in this forum and the mindset of the people.
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What do you mean?
Surely someone of your purported skill isnt playing against new players like that, right? And Im sure you are enough of a competitor to not manipulate the matchmaker or anything, that'd be dishonest.
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I swear Sluzzy got banned like a month after I discovered the forum but the level of complaints were legendary.
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Bait used to be believable.
-12 -
I play Pig, Chucky, Freddy, Myers, Wraith, Xeno, and Demo. I'll play the odd game with others but these are the ones I enjoy.
I find killer easier, and I've always maintained it's because i played survivor as well. I can often predict their moves, even guess where they're hiding, because I literally would play the same way. Aside from perks, there's nothing to significantly differentiate my opponents each game.
The flipside doesnt apply to the same capacity because there are currently over 40 killers in the game for survivors to learn the powers of, and how to counter them. Some killers have a lower pick rate than others, which leaves even less opportunity to understand or know how to play against their opponent.
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My group of 8-12 people that would show up on discord everyday stopped playing.
Now we can't get full swfs. I stayed and playing solo queue is miserable. Thinking about playing something else too.
Post edited by vol4r on8 -
Well, in my experience I find Killer the harder role, in part because I've never found it too difficult to memorize large quantities of information (i.e. Each individual Killer and their powers), and in part because it's much easier for me, playing Survivor, to simply not care about counterplay or other such stuff.
That's what Survivor has always given me the leeway to do. To not care. To simply buckle down and not worry about playing my best, because I know I'll at least perform adequately no matter what.
My escape rate is 42%, for reference. Pretty average for a solo surv, as of BHVR's last stat release.
I've never had any such luxury of not caring when I play Killer. If I run loops wrong, if I use my power wrong, if at any moment I'm not devoting my full attention to what's happening in front of me, it will invariably cost me distance, time, and eventually kills.
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