http://dbd.game/killswitch
Us vs Them is killing the game (current patches)
I know there has been billions of forums talking about this but we really need to stop getting at each other's throats for things the developers add to the game that fuels the fire. I need to also mention first that I'm not a killer or survivor main, I play both having thousands of hours of experiences in both sides so I believe I have a say when talking about "us vs them" arguments.
First and foremost, pallet density, already a majority of killers are venting their frustrations (me including) and purely survivor mains are acting like their experts of stranger's experiences and saying "your argument is invalid cus it's an echo chamber" which ironically is them in an echo chamber. But at the same time I see why survivors are frustrated as they are going into matches like it's the last tournament match that'll judge them like it's a life or death situation after facing a tunneling ghoul, Krasue, blight, whatever the killer is playing to secure wins. But they ignore the fact that there are many other killers who play their mains because they like them such as myself when I main purely Springtrap and Xenomorph (occasionally Dracula since it's the spooky season) that also aren't these A or S tier gods that can eliminate teams with quad slowdown and competent knowledge of that killer.
It causes both sides to create so many forums and discussions on why their side is miserable and the other side needs to be severely kneecapped so they can secure an easy win (not everyone). We forget the other side is human and most of the time want to play this game casually or for fun and we start telling each other to straight up stop existing in this world and their families need to be put down which has happened way more often than it should be. I wish that a good majority of us can put down our machetes and chainsaws and actually come together and express why our side is miserable without denying our struggles and we bring this to BHVR so they can for once understand that we are not happy and we need something to change that can benefit both sides and bring back that feeling of horror that was once present in the game.
TL;DR the new patch has caused both sides to play miserably and we blame each other for causing the problems when it's actually developer incompetence that is causing the issues that plague this game.
Comments
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What are you, some kind of [KILLER/SURVIVOR] main?
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Maybe the [KILLER/SURVIVOR] mains were the friends we made along the way 🤗
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From a fellow Ellen Ripley main, thank you for saying what I've been trying to say in these forums in a much better way. We desperately needed constructive discourse to find common understanding and not constantly stoop to the side vs side that constantly happens here. It just further polarizes and leaves a negative feeling that can bleed into gameplay itself.
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I totally agree the them versus us is a problem, and we need to, for a lack of better word, depolarize. But, I also feel like saying it's the devs incompetence is going back to the square one, where we pick a group that's the fault of everything. The devs are trying to cater to two groups, with the very loud and angry people seemingly representing the majority of either group. In reality, I don't think the loud angry people make up most the players on either side, but they're the ones devs hear the most from.
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Glad to see another Ripley main! I just wish more people would resolve things more calmly than with accusations
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I don't think it'll ever die and that largely trickles down from the top. In my opinion, BHVR does a lot to keep the animosity going. But I do agree that regardless of our perspectives, we should be willing to hear people out. We don't have to agree with everything they say but there's no use being an a-hole about it.
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I agree it won't ever largely due to little to no competition but I should word my phrasing of killing dbd is the casual spirit of picking up the game and playing a killer you like that isn't exactly A or S tier. SBMM isn't forgiving either when you put down a game on high MMR then come back to it only to face Navy Seals playing your mid tier killer. But it should also have that casual non toxic spirit that I lost in this game playing both survivor and killer (I miss playing my locker build :[ )
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Downvotes made the echo chamber here on the forums way worse.
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I agree. I don't know that we can get that spirit back after years of pushing for the opposite, but the game really did feel better (even though it still was pretty frustrating).
I agree here too. At best, it's negligible, at worst it really gets in people's heads. It's not even visible unless you're logged in either, so you look like a lunatic talking about it. 😅
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I think the game just sucks for both sides right now, and the changes they make only seem to make the issues worse for everyone.
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I feel fairly confident that they want us to fight. It's just like politics. Keep the peasant squabbling over small or manufactured problems and they'll never notice the bigger ones.
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They should honestly just remove downvotes altogether they do nothing but encourage people to ragebait. Ever since the new update, it feels like the forums have been flooded with people who completely ignore what’s actually being said and just argue for the sake of it.
You also see a ton of players blaming random people for dev decisions, like anyone here personally approved the Tenacity or Hope nerfs. It’s ridiculous. I don’t even know how you’re supposed to have a real conversation when half the replies are just bad faith arguments.
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Its not, the thing that has slowly been killing this game is MMR.
MMR introduced an idea of "as i win games, i start playing against people who win games more often" so you are basically punished for winning in a sense. And this is in a game where you get no reward for that MMR, there's no ranking system, no leaderboards, or anything.
So it becomes a sweat fest. Because if i don't sweat, then i get stomped on and the game is boring. Thus creating a perpetual cytcle of everyone playing their best. And that results in both sides exploiting the biggest BS they have access to right now.
What the game needs is a proper ranked mode, that has ranks and leaderboards and the like. That way the sweats get want, and the casuals get what they want.
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That does make a lot of sense.
And to add to this, MMR was also meant to help survivors play with survivors who know the game, and if you lose lots of games despite doing well generally (other survivors leaving you on hook, not healing you, you getting tunneled, etc etc) you will be stuck with poor survivors for awhile as well.
Really, we need a tutorial overhaul to better explain how this game is played over MMR.1 -
A lot of the us vs them toxicity would go away if people bothered to play both sides. It’s very easy to identify who exclusively plays one side or the other when you see that literally every single one of their posts is blaming “killer mains” or “survivors mains” for problems in the game.
It would also be great to see some updates to the forum rules to ban posts that are solely intended to bait people into “us vs them” arguments. Looking through the comments in any given thread it’s pretty easy to identify which ones fit that description.0 -
That does technically fall under the things developers add into this game because the original MMR system was light-years beyond better than the current SBMM we have which I did mention in one of my replies
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There are people on this forum whose entire post history is literally nothing but hundreds and hundreds of posts of "game sucks because [insert side here]" who do nothing but drag discussions down, but you'll never see anything done about them.
Post edited by Caiman on1 -
MMR is the worst system to be implemented since its existence. Never in my life was there multiplayer games in the past where MMR was a thing until recently. All there was were either ranked, normal, randomly searching for games or finding lobbies in the server menu.
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The takeaway from this is that people are just jerks. Aint no point starting a coversation on the forum or else some mongrel will go on a unhinged yap session.
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I will admit, I make it a point not to respond to essays or posts that try to make me watch a video. 😵
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I have always found discussions around MMR are largely speculative and heresay tbh. It simultaneously doesn't work and pairs people clearly mismatched into the same lobbies, and simultaneously does work so that people keep ending up in the sweatiest matches together.
It strikes me as the boogeyman, where it is used too often as an easy blame for a lot of things because nobody knows anyone's MMR, not even their own, and can't check/verify anything.
My experiences with MMR, from where I guess I am as a relatively average player who plays off meta but does reasonably well: -
- Playing Comp with meta perks, Stier killwrs and item add-ons, going hard sweaty yourself tends to pair you against meta perks and players playing hard sweaty.
- Playing Casual with off meta builds, always playing for hatch, trying not to tunnel and slug, not using extremely strong Survivor items (syringes, BNPs, Commodius) tends to pair you with players that are also running sub-optimal builds/lower tier killers.
- Playing with players who are exceptionally good and/or playing sweaty tends to put you with more sweaty players running stronger sets.
- Playing with players who are new, not so good, or who also run off meta builds tends to pair you with lower tier killers, some even doing adepts.
I think I'm bouncing around the mid tiers somewhere, based on the fact I see A-S tier killers who play OK bir not great, about as often as I see C-D tier killers who play well. On Killer, I do see a spattering of string perks like Decisive, Unbreakable, quite often Lithe and WoO, a good few Dead Hards, but I only see the odd syringe or BNP, I rarely see a full sweaty Survivor lobby.
In all my experiences of the game, in mid tiers, the MMR system seems to do a generally pretty good job of pairing people up, based on what I would expect from the killer I am playing, or the teammates I am playing with... and from what I see, the sweats end up playing with sweats, newbies end up playing with newbies/adepts, and mostly chill players end up with mostly chill players.
The way I see it, unless you're an absolute God who plays mostly chill on low tier killers and wins all the time anyway, which is indeed you being punished for being exceptional... if your games are sweaty, there is a good chance you yourself, are sweaty, and the architect of your own downfall.
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Pro tip: if you ever want me to shut up, just post a video, any video. There's no bigger turn off than the mid-argument video.
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While a Ranked mode with rewards an so on would maybe work, there will never be a fully casual mode.
Because people will always want easy matches and get into "casual" mode to tryhard.
Just saying.
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I definitely agree that the 'us vs them' thing isn't helping matters.
But I also understand where a lot of people are coming from with it, based on the behaviour I've seen from some people in game and on these forums. Not to mention in recent times, it seems like the way in which the devs choose to handle issues have VERY different approaches depending on whether it mostly effects killers or survivors, which definitely builds a sense of resentment toward the 'other' side.
A lot of the discussions here quickly devolve into the us vs them name calling and insults, which is a shame and unhelpful. Though there are definitely people who are trying to put forth genuinely thoughtful ideas about how to fix core issues, and I'm grateful for their contributions. I only wish I had the general game design knowledge to contribute meaningfully to those discussions.
I suppose the best way to help is just to engage with those discussions that are in good faith and trying to offer thoughtful solutions and genuine discourse, and try not to engage with people obviously commenting only in bad faith. Which is incredibly hard to do and often frustrating but definitely for the best.
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I should start using random videos to make a point. 😝 "OK I know you're saying that sometimes you have to tunnel but did you know that New Kids On The Block had a lot of hits, Chinese food makes me sick?"
Something I've learned is that most of us have a bias somewhere and that's fine. If we can see that bias and make it known without coloring our opinion so strongly that we're bogging down the conversation, then we're golden. But once it does start to go south, it's better to disengage entirely or to stop taking it seriously.
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The modes would likely be balanced differently. Partially its also my proposed fix for dealing with SWF vs solo queue balance disparity.
For example, lets say you have a casual mode, in this mode its solo queue/duo queue only, and the game is setup so that every match always has 4 solos, or 2 solos and 1 duo. Then you balance the game accordingly with different effects. Maybe basekit BT lasts longer, maybe survivors get basekit kindred. Maybe gens take 80 seconds instead of 90 etc.
Then in the ranked mode, its SWF only, and maybe in this mode survivors can only use a perk once accross the whole team, gens maybe take 100 seconds instead of 90, maybe killer gets basekit pain res etc.
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Not all 4mans are pros working in sync. This would just discourage the teams of chill friends from playing together.
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That's where you'd have the 3rd queue, the rotating game mode of goofiness. Gives you everything you need to have a chill time.
Kinda flows similar to say Counterstrike.
- Ranked mode for the sweats
- Casual mode for chillin
- Custom servers/deathmatch/other goofy stuff for chillin with friends.
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