Tunneling is REALLY bad -Edited
Comments
-
It’s time to work around it and make it more balanced through mechanics, rather than just anti system that works with symptoms only. Anti system just worked on A and B which leads to C case, and BHVR will just over and over play the same game switching roles here
In such case it's simply better to find a compromise. Tunneling shouldn't be free, and it's no longer free if the team has communication and well, trying to use it for win. But solo players lack this. And powerful killers, with increased gen rush, are becoming more in demand. I don't know why BHVR finds it satisfying to think that, despite solo q being the largest part of the community, they are forced to deal with major injustices that are literally solved by adequate communication tools with SBMM. Like 9 years of the game, giving some kind of kindred and showing that tunnelled person has DS or full anti face camp already can improve experience
2 -
Gen speeds are also a problem. Its very hard to balance both without micro balancing between MMRs, so we just put up with it for now.
1 -
Very good point. I just don't like the idea that we need to keep making heavy changes that continue to harm solo while ignoring their biggest pain points as if they're tolerable enough when clearly they aren't.
0 -
First, whether an object is moving or not makes zero difference. That is completely nonsensical.
Second, old Dead Hard already had duration based i-frames. It's something that was literally already programmed into the game. It's still in the game for things like Plague's red puke so you can't be double tapped by a single puke. It's is not just technically feasible, it already exists.
1 -
First, whether an object is moving or not makes zero difference. That is completely nonsensical.
Do you have experience working in Unreal Engine? Cause I’m speaking about the technical realisation of it.
I worked in Unity for a while and well, didn't find a way to cancel how the simple engine works. Not telling I’m an expert I just genuinely asking HOW. Is it technically possible to remove both stuff at the same time? Old Dead hard wasn't removing collision, you are asking for both stuff at the same time. I frames and no collision + no hit boxes is different thing if I’m not wrong
When cheaters messing with killer hitboxes or breaking collision, you can see how animations are breaking themselves and it looks weird. So I’m asking again if you are so confident how hypotheticaly implement it without it looking like bs crutch. I mean, like cheap approach that visually will just look terrible.
Edit: I found, you can do it through customizing collision per object type. But this approach just may lead to— Design clarity (I don't see how to make it intuitive, but it matters of vision, idk)
— Edge-of-Environment Bugs
— Network DesyncAnd I’m afraid all of this three are unavoidable considering that we ALREADY have this issues in this game.
Maybe, the most simple question is to design perks that don't let exploitable aggressive behaviour
-2 -
You are wrong. You're so bafflingly wrong that it's hard to understand where you're even coming from. You accept the property of i frames. You accept the property of no collision. But you don't accept that an entity can have both these properties set simultaneously when moving?
"Is it technically possible to remove both stuff at the same time?"
Yes. Yes it is. Not only is it technically possible to remove both at the same time, it's already in the game. If you're hit with Bubba's Chainsaw, you lose both collision with him, and gain i-frames for a second or two so you're not instantly double-tapped. Same with Plague's Puke.
0 -
You don’t really lose collision in cases you are described. It's work of I frames only
Half of I frames cases in this game is a bug BHVR don’t really have control of, because it directly related of network inputs and engine flaws. Like pallet vacuums on chainsaw or vault killer. In this game there are two types of I frames - one that a straight game logic, and other is a complete and uncontrollable mess. And the last type makes you both lose collision and give you I frames.
I still ask you how to fulfil your wish making it fully controllable and not breaking a good half of this game or making it looks visually bad. I don't really care about what entity can/can’t give, at least because making a survivor a some kind of ghost that can ignore physical damage already sounds bs. I don't know what happened that you can't talk about this topic a little less emotionally defensive simply because there are people who don't appreciate this idea as much as you do. Like, I don't say this principle is impossible, I’m asking questions and stating I don't really appreciate this crutch, just chill, ok?
-1 -
Literally nothing you wrote makes a single iota of sense or is even close to true. You lose collision with other survivors and the killer when you are damaged by any means. You also lose collision and your hurtbox when you use Head On. Or are slugged. Your insistence that basic mechanics throughout the game cannot exist on a technical level is absurd.
I-Frames exist without collision. Collision exists without I-frames. Not a single example I've given is a bug that BHVR doesn't have control over. Your assertation that losing collision and getting i-frames, something that happens literally every time you're damaged, is "a complete and uncontrollable mess" is nonsense. The game does not have a seizure and go into a panic state every time a character loses a health state.
Are you seriously claiming that these examples I've given are not intentional and are just an artifact of uncontrollable game bugs?
0 -
but… I frames working for really short period of time… you can’t implement the same principle for longer period, it stops being I frames then and not, you not lose collision, you are immune to damage and that's all… you aren’t really intentionally losing collision when getting a hit. It's not working like this. I frames are linked to animations so survivor and killer hit boxes wouldn't accidentally stuck in each other and lead to soft lock. So you are pushed out of killer hitbox if during a hit it was overlapped. That's why it's I frames. They are literally a matter of seconds. System you are asking for is completely different thing… At least because it's asking more than adjusting few frames. And it’ll more likely look bad and lead to many bugs, but whatever…
I don't see point to discuss it anymore, we simply speak two different languages
-2 -
"you aren’t really intentionally losing collision when getting a hit. It's not working like this."
My guy. Go into a game. Run around. Be hit. Observe that for a few seconds, you can run through other survivors and the killer. Or as the killer, you can move through the survivor. It is absolutely working like this. It is working exactly like this.
This has nothing to do with animation locks. This has nothing to do with model ejection once the no-collision status is removed, which isn't even a thing that DBD does, as you can just sit inside of killers which survivors can and absolutely do to confuse them. That is completely separate from i-frames, which is why you could be double tapped in 2v8. Collision is removed temporarily by basic attacks, but the hurtbox is not. There are already states where the hurtbox IS removed. And there are states where both are disabled. Go test any of the examples I've given.
2 -
Tunneling is a playstyle, same as genrush and killers already got a lot of options locked - 3 genning, slugging etc. If you don't want to be tunneled, don't play competitive game.
-2
