The MacMillan Estate Realm
Recently, we released a quality-of-life update that adjusted how pallets were laid out across certain Realms. We'd love to dig into the specifics of what you like and don't like to help inform future adjustments.
In this thread, let's focus on The MacMillan Estate Realm. How do you feel about the quantity of pallets here? Are there specific areas you feel have too many or not enough pallets? Share your feedback here - the more specific and detailed you can be, the better! Bonus points if you can share screenshots!
And as for this poll, overall, how do you feel about the current state of pallets in The MacMillan Estate Realm?
The MacMillan Estate Realm 374 votes
Comments
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there are 4 times more survivor players then killer players… WHY THE HELL MAKE A ######### VOTE POOL
-35 -
Not sure about other maps but Shelter Woods definetely feels way better so don't touch it please, this map used to have giant open field deadzones and it was misarable against killers with high mobility.
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I play as killer and this map feels like a pallet paradise
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Idk why Coal Tower was changed tbh. It was the most balanced map in the game.
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shelter woods i would say is fine as is, the other 2 there was no need for extra pallets
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can say this about literally every map and will copy and paste this, this pallet density update has been awful for every map. The random pallet generation possibly sticking 3-4 pallets into a tile or connecting tile is ridiculous
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Never cook again with this one lol
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Almost every map in this realm has been negatively affected due to killers in general being overwhelmed due to the absurd amount of pallets on these maps, that were mostly well balanced.
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I dont know if splitting this into realms is the right call. I play majority survivor and the pallet density definitely favours survivor all round. I feel like the issue is with this update is there's such a gap between the high mobility killers like blight, nurse & ghoul the pallet density update almost feels more balanced towards those that the lower mobility "mouse 1" killers suffer and become more unplayable. I feel like the right thing is to deal with the killers that are a problem like the high mobility ones and bring them more in line with the rest of the pack and then the increased pallet density wouldn't be needed and the weaker less mobile killers would become more viable or enjoyable again.
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I appreciate that a lot of the pallets you added in this realm were weaker, but that doesn't really matter if people chain them together. There's a difference between a deadzone and an area with limited resources that will become a deadzone if you throw the two pallets in it. Removing actual deadzones is usually a good thing (please never remove the Yamoka estate deadzone North of shack on fam resi), but flooding a map with pallets isn't the answer.
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I do sure love playing Springtrap
I do hope that the Devs don't make an update that exclusively hurts lower tier killers and does nothing to higher tier killers
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Because a lot of us survivors also play killers and can know when stuff is busted for the other side lol. I hope most people are 50/50 or close to it.
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Shelter woods' size reduction was great, anything else was not. I'm shocked that the groaning storehouse didnt get the same treatments as disturbed ward, which had one of its pockets significantly shrinked.
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Shelter woods is one of the few maps that needed it (even if changing the map to have actual loops instead of fillers would've worked better) All of the other Macmillan maps absolutely did not need this and should be reverted as soon as possible
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There's a reason the Macmillan maps are used for tourneys, this change for the majority of the maps was not needed. Shelter Woods needed help and it's in a better place, albeit, there's still the massive deadzone around the tree, but still much better than it was before.
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Shelter Woods is fine? But the others? Holy hell dude. More pallets than trees. If you're not a ranged or S tier killer you can really feel the sheer amount.
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Idk what the point is to weaken every pallet just to add more pallets overall. It just leads to less ways to express skill and less fun, because you have no way to lose bloodlust on surv and will always get hit no matter what and on killer it feels worse because you have to deal with just more pallets overall.
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The new pallets and loops are fun and welcome. The issue is just the raw number of pallets available and should be toned down slightly.
-1 -
MacMillan and Autoheaven (except Gas Heaven, it was survivor sided even before) were both balanced realms and you just made it crazy survivor sided.
In Mapping the Realm polls I said that all these maps need consistency and pallet density update was good for it. For example Coal Tower could lean on one side or another, depends on rng. But add loops every 5 meters? Nah, nobody asked for this.
And Shelter Wood isn't fine as well, like people said here, it can spawn absolutely busted and unfair variations.
I'm just standing near main and there are 8 good pallets around me. And it's like only 1/3 of the map. And it's not even best rng I saw since update. Who should I play to deal with it except Nurse?
100% all MacMillans should be reverted and instead just make previous spawn more consistent.3 -
These maps were always some of my favorites to play as survivor and as killer since they felt the most balanced. Now you ruined them for me. As a survivor i can just see yellow everywhere when i have windows equipped, and as a killer i might as well go cry in the corner.
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For each of my ratings I'm going to break them down into two parts with info/map specific info afterwards.
Tile Type:⭐⭐⭐⭐❌
Pallet Density:⭐⭐❌❌❌
Map Specific:
Sheltered Woods is infinitely better and can be left alone.
Overall: I know a lot of people are going to just immediately shut down any changes, but I personally LOVED the new tiles on Macmillan. Could some have been tweaked slightly? Yes. However, against good survivors Mac has become pretty painful on killers like Wesker unless you're running Brutal permanently. I feel like before the tile change I could never take it off and now most of the tiles on Coal Tower were playable without being forced to just break pallet into power. I also loved the shakeup in the middle of Suffo Pit and it genuinely refreshed the game for me.
Please consider keeping the new tiles, especially the SHAPES that make them more playable for collision killers, even if it means some of the more unsafe ones are buffed a bit. However, the density was out of control. It got two stars purely because Sheltered felt a lot better.
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Macmillan used to be one of the most loved realms for both survivor and killer, also viewed as one of the more balanced ones. After the recent change I feel like that perspective might have changed for the worse.
The removal of God Rocks, which required checkspots to be played well and rewarding skillful play dosent sit right with me. Instead it was decided to replace them with alot of small 50/50 pallets that dosent encourage alot of mindgames and has very minimal skill expression. Now it comes more down to whoever wins the most coin flips, its more luck rather than skill based. The new pallets are also far more bloodlustable but at the same time more frequently spawns chainable with shack or jungle gym windows which is really strong.
The new filler pallets also hurt 110 killers more, because short tall loops are their biggest weakness. Dash killers also gets hurt by this which is a big part of the killer roster. Spamming these filler pallets simply creates a more luck based map and removes skill expression. Same can be said for the new crate fillers which also cant be checkspotted anymore.
Overall, I think the map could benefit from reintroducing more mindgame tiles that reward skillfull plays, rather than relying so heavily on 50/50 and sheer number of pallets
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McMillan was one of the most balanced maps in the game before the update in my opinion, which is why you see it in tournaments pretty frequently just because it was pretty fair but now? it is definitely more survivor sided.
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- I don't really understand why MacMillan was changed. I thought this Realm was pretty fairly balanced before the increased density changes. Now there's SO many filler pallets and the Realm has become really unpleasant to play on as Killer.
- For example, Coal Tower was probably the most balanced map in the game, and now you can get like 5 pallets surrounding shack. Chasing Survivors around setups like that as a weaker Killer is completely unviable.
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Hard to vote for the whole realm since there are a lot of different maps within that have different balancing needs. As such I won't vote on the poll.
In general though I think the pallet changes made the maps within the realm worse, but there are some places on the maps where a few extra pallets were fine. Sheltered Woods as others have mentioned though was mostly fine with the changes.
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Shelter woods needed the help, it was the only one that did.
Macmillan overall was quite balanced, arguably my favorite realm. Coal Tower was an example of one of the most balanced maps, and now, there's so many fillers buffing the already safe loops that it's just pallet break after pallet break with dwindling pressure. Felt good with Nemesis, Wesker, Dracula, all fair but with these extra pallets it can be so rough.
The only killers who break coal tower are Nurse and Blight. I'd rather they get looked at.
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This realm needs it all reverted except for Shelter Woods
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Most of these maps were already fairly balanced, imo. Except for some deadzones, I felt the pallet distribution and loop generation was fair.
Shelter Woods is probably fine with this update though.
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The poll is more of a gut check for us than anything. We know it won't tell the whole story, but it can help to contextualize what we see in the replies here (which are the real nuggets we're looking for).
If you don't mind me asking, which map are you referring to here? Or do you mean the whole Macmillan Estate Realm?
Don't get me wrong, there's totally a place for bigger-picture feedback on the pallet density changes (and believe me, we're grabbing that too, so appreciate your notes here!), but we also really want to dig into the finer details. If certain maps are ending up with particularly frustrating tiles, then we want to make sure we focus on flagging them to the team too.
Would you be able to share a screenshot of the tree deadzone you're referring to here?
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The pallet distribution is awful. Maps like Suffocation pit and Groaning Storehouse might have had some annoying deadzones for survivors, but their strength was their main building and for Suffo. Pit specifically the cluster of tiles in the middle. Now they've become stronger for survivor.
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you hope people are good? serious?
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yeah, everyone is important, so just let people talk, not a vote pool, and no, killers dont have a 60%+ winrate unless they are sweating their ass off, what makes survivors cry and is not really fun for anyone
-1 -
gut feeling? i dont really know how the data is appearing for you guys, but ive been receiving a tour to every pallet in the maps, every damn game, and there are so many pallets, that this is not the most dumb strategy ever in the game, literally i had a three man scape due to the guy just going around the map with windows of oportunity, zero loop, zero fun, zero skill… i remember when a survivor who would do that would literally lose the game due to that horrible use of resources. Now im here, with nemesis, using a pallet breaking build (endurance+spirit fury+twack) and i am still feeling the pallets without requiring any skill from survs
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the most interesting stuff, is that this "lets try and then make a pool" things that behaviour releases, are always buffs on survivors, reduce pallet spawns to 10% the normal ammount, leave it like that one month and then make a pool… let me try something really quick
-1 -
Shelter Woods needed it the most, and feels a lot better playing as survivor. The only maps tho, not needed.
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This realm did NOT need to be changed! It was so perfect as it was outside of needing less so called "god rocks" spawned(god rocks could be played around with good killer movement and ping often made them unsafe too). Now every filler pallet is extremely weak and discourages killers using their powers in favor of M1'ing, which makes gameplay very boring on both sides. Pallet length needs to be buffed, even if you don't want to have the existence of "god rock" anymore.
This realm went from my most favorite to very underwhelming. Please prioritize this if you can!1 -
Same as Autohaven I guess. Maps on Macmillan were already mostly fair and balanced the addition of more pallets and double pallets made it unfair and heavily favours survivors
1 -
killer mains about to go crazy on the forums, as usual lol.
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The map before was totally fine but now I feel like (also with the other maps) you can just spam as much pallets as you want as a survivor. Even at high mmr people don’t care anymore to learn how to loop and just pre-drop every pallet in line of sight. Even after maybe breaking 10 pallets there are still a bunch of left and especially a big problem for killers who are slower than 4.6 because even on normal tiles it’s impossible to get a down without your power.
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In regards to the pallet update, MacMillian was the realm that upset me the most. MacMillian was by far the best in terms of gameplay and balance before the update, hense why MacMillian and Autohaven were stables for 1v1s. My only issue before was "god rocks" spawned to often but other than that it was perfect. Now most filler pallets are very unsafe and ever pallet often comes down to winning and losing 50/50s till the killer get Bloodlust and downs you. Just very stale and less skill expressive for both killer and survivor. Please bring back to the way it was but with less god rocks.
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I think the new Shelter Woods is acceptable and feels better now, but most of the other Macmillan maps got worse with this update.
Coal Tower in particular feels especially ruined by this update considering it was one of the best maps in the game prior to the changes. It's not uncommon now to get several pallets chaining into the shack and/or into the building and it feels pretty bad to play for the weaker killers. It feels like it's balanced around the S-tier killers (which leaves the lower-tier killers behind) when we should instead be nerfing the S-tiers and keeping the maps fair for everyone. The one positive I will highlight about Coal Tower is that there usually isn't a deadzone next to the shack anymore (which there often was before) so that's a good change imo but other than that, not a good update for this realm overall.
Groaning Storehouse would probably be alright if one of the side pockets got removed (similar to what was done for Disturbed Ward). Ironworks I think should just be reverted.
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Didn't play all the maps enough to give a full feedback, but i cant say ive heard much complaint about them before, so they probably didn't need any changing, additional pallets in particular. I can speak on shelter woods though. The entire perimeter is a chain of pallets and loops a survivor can run the killer on for most, if not all, of the gens. Perimeter pallets are fine when they're isolated, but not when they spawn near other resources that all connected to one another.
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It was originally well-balanced, so why make it so heavily survivor-sided? Is that supposed to be fun?
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There's a couple variations that can spawn and are too survivor-sided, but for the most part the changes are good. Survivors feels better to play while killer is only a tad bit more difficult, but killer has felt somewhat easy in recent months so this isn't an unwarranted change.
The worst killers are still the worst killers and these changes even hurt those killers with some of the possible variations; on the other hand, the strong killers are kept in check a bit more which I see as a purely positive development. This is a fundamental issue caused by the immense disparity between the absolute best killers and absolute worst killers. There is no reason to have a killer as weak as Trapper or Skull Merchant in the same game where Blight or Ghoul roam free. Killers should absolutely be treated differently very much in the same way that we were going to see smaller bonuses given out to the "S tier" killers with the proposed Anti-Tunnelling/Slugging changes; your weaker killers could be given base kit access to faster pallet/gen kicks, faster vaults even, maybe some out-of-chase movement speed after a hook.
As these changes stand right now, the weaker killers are in a bad spot… but not because the changes are bad, but because the killers themselves needed help to begin with.-1 -
Yes i mean the whole Macmillan Estate, there was yes a revision for everyone and pallets were added everywhere.
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I thought MacMillan Estate was hard for killer before, now it's impossible for low tier killers. The pallet density should be reverted for all maps except lambkin lane.
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Thanks for clarifying!
Would you be able to clarify which variations you've mentioned are feeling too Survivor-sided?
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Revert it on this realm.
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This realm was already well balanced with it's pallet quantity.
Now it's another one where you can mindlessly drop pallets and connect weaker loops with another week one, then a strong one…
A 50/50 is not a 50/50 if it connects to other loops.
Also the double pallets are the worst thing you guys could've cooked since Greenville Square was added and now it feels like a plague that's bleeding to the other realms. A lot of killers powers, like Wesker's, is completely useless on them.0 -
I'll be saying the same message in each of the pallet forums, especially MacMillan, because it has universally applied to my matches since the update.
Unless I'm playing a killer with a dedicated pallet shredding build with Brutal and Fire Up, ala Shadow Dance Wraith, Iri Button Legion, Nemesis or Hair Brush Myers, the experience of playing the killers I enjoy (M1) has been miserable. Even when I do play a pallet shredding build, I still find I lose more of my matches because I can't dedicate enough of my perk load out to gen slowdown.
All in all, the pallet density update has felt like an excessive punishment to players who like to use M1 killers.
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