Backwater Swamp Realm

Regardless of quantity, the quality of the pallets is exceptionally high. Not only do they connect to sturdy buildings and huts, but when generated near strong window frames (boats, logs, docks), they enable various looping possibilities.

It's not even the increased pallet count that i was the most surprised about, but the fact that grim pantry didnt get shrinked like other huge maps (shelter, DW and torment creek). But still, there are too many pallets on both of these maps, altough they're not as unplayable as crotus prenn maps

Swamp maps ultimately suffer from being released as a very large map and historically shrinking it down making the map feel "odd." The shrinking down made the edges of the maps obsolete unless you were looking for totems (which could still spawn edge map even with the map shrunk) so any sort of resources on the edge maps were nice.

Swamp is interesting as it has loopable structures such as docks, small shack, and pog logs, etc. Have seen some spawns where RnG allowed 2 pog logs in one area, which seems to be rare, but is a nasty setup to loop.

For each of my ratings I'm going to break them down into two parts with info/map specific info afterwards.

Tile Type:⭐⭐❌❌❌

Pallet Density:⭐⭐⭐❌❌

Map Specific: Pale Rose seemed to miss the whole dead zone deleter, but decided to make every pallet you get a sanctuary. By that I mean, you still have a massive dead zone in the middle, but the tiles you do get are crazy strong since they all connect to something.

Overall: My number one most hated thing is edge map pallets. Traveling to edge map on swamp is so much worse than any other map, because there is almost (not always) never an objective to protect near it. So, not only do I have people take me there and waste my time, but now they can loop there and waste more time. Pleasssseee remove these, even if it means you make tiles near them as long as they're closer to objectives. Unless you want to guarantee there is always a gen roughly near them. Next, having multiple POG logs that connect so easily is brutal and should be reconsidered. I do think these realms feel BETTER pallet wise now, but that's only because they were so miserable before. I guess what I'm trying to say is, it needs more BREAKABLE loops. The issue with it now is while the safety is spread fairly, a good loop can never be removed since it's structures and windows. That leads to killer late game still feeling like early game sometimes.

Swamp realm was not perfect before, but the pallet changes made things far worse.

A lot of people here are talking about the deadzones, but I think the deadzones are okay in general. The map had some strong tiles survivors can play and deadzones help balance it by making it harder to get to the next tile. I am okay with the Swamp realms size, deadzones, and strong tiles, as long as it servers its purpose towards map balance. Deadzones made the map fair for m1 type killers, but still allowed for balance as good survivors could play the strong tiles. It never felt unfair to me, as once you outplayed a survivor they would have no where else to go a lot of the time.

The additional extra pallets changed this equation and means survivors can just play the strong tiles and then chain fillers easily into the next strong tile. Running to the edge of the map on large maps like Swamp realm should not reward survivors with new pallets, but a deadzone as YmPrat pointed out above. I believe, deadzones in-between these tiles is important for the balance in short.

Simply removing the deadzones from maps is ignorant to how large maps differ to smaller maps in terms of killer balance. Just making all maps smaller is also boring for the game. Map variety is important and can be balanced as long as you don't try a one size fits all method to map balance.

This map still has big deadzones at times while also having too many loops. I'd rather only a couple lops get added but we spread them out a bit more. Ideally swamp gets shrunk a little too.

The pallets spawn too close to each other and there are too many edge fillers that can extend the chase greatly and can grant survivors a good dying spot without really putting in too much effort. The fillers in the middle of the map are also too large for anyone who doesnt have a movement ability, and even if a killer does (say chucky, pig, myers or wesker), they are still very strong, and can be chained into very close by fillers.

Firstly, this realm still needs it's cosmetic glow up. It never got a proper one like the other OG maps, and it is a shame since a swamp could be extremely moody and cool to play in. Especially if you do decide to add little puddles or areas with actual knee height water level and stuff. It could look SO cool.

Secondly, most of the tiles in those maps are fine. However the pier area for both maps is very unfair for killer. Waaaay too many pallets and windows connected too each other. It's tricky to navigate. You can chain tiles outside of it with the windows it has. If anything needs to be looked at, it's those piers in both maps.

this is wild, there’s zero chance the swamp has too many pallets now. It was a walking dead zone outside of main and shack before, with the worst tiles.

Pale Rose:
The increased pallets paired with the already strong buildings and the prevalence of the "Pog Log" structure can make nowhere on this map "unsafe". Good pallets spawn along the edges, where pog logs spawn. More pallets can lead into the pog logs that can spawn into the main boat structure or the pallets can lead into a strong Dock structure. The map on the interior is too close together to have so many pallets, safe or otherwise.

Grim Pantry:
The main structure is much too strong anyway, so having safer pallets in the middle, around the dock, and the other structure makes this map even harder to control as killer. Throw in shack between the dock and the other structure, which, no matter which way you run it, can be run into the main structure. It's just way too much to work with.

just rework these damn maps already. both maps are awful in every conceivable way. the palette change just made it even more insufferable.

Double pallets here in a setup with two windows should not exist:

The center of these maps frequently spawns too many safe fillers now, previously RNG was kind of an issue on these maps because you really could get anything from super survivor sided to a killer-sided map with a giant deadzone in the middle, now these maps are just consistently too safe overall. I've also been seeing more poglogs, we didn't need those either.

I know this about pallet density, but this realm NEEDS an entire rework. I hate these maps so much. They look so ugly and have some of the most annoying loops in the game. The log loops are RIDICULOUS for most killers. They are way to safe and if they spawn around main or killer shack they can easily become infinites. If they just disappeared I wouldn’t be upset at all, but if you want to keep them make the windows on those loops pallets instead. The pier spawns way too many pallets. The main building for Grim Pantry upstairs is pretty much an infinite against M1 killers, and downstairs is essentially an annoying maze, that main building should be completely changed. Reducing the size of Pale Rose would be nice too. The edge map pallets weren’t really necessary cuz edge map on swamp is really good for hiding as survivor, but if main and the pier get fixed I can see them being ok.

The change of pallets did not have a significant impact on the map itself, but this does not mean that it is balanced. This map has the most brutal main and is complemented by relatively safe pallets.

The Backwater Swamp realm feels perfect. Maybe one or two variations that are bad and need to be removed as possibilities, but for the most part the maps are a lot more fair. I haven't seen any bad cases myself, but I did see some ridiculous possibilities in other comments and I agree some of those are a bit much.

This is just a bad map in general, but the pallets just exasperate it.

The issue with this realm is the damn rework that never came.
The damn ramps messes up with a lot of killer powers.

Also it was another one well balanced realm with it's pallet quantity and now have almost the same issues as the other problematic realms.

The double pallets are the worst thing you guys could've cooked since Greenville Square was added and now it feels like a plague that's bleeding to the other realms. A lot of killers powers, like Wesker's, is completely useless on them.
This realm have something unique now that is sometimes two pallets can be next to each other and 2 meters from a window in the pier that's close to the Pale Rose ship.