So... when is the anti-tunnel and anti-slug measures BHVR promised is coming in...?

What about answering on post where you complained people can’t adapt to anti-tunnel at first instead of Interrupting into a dialogue with another person? Well, that's it, first of all.

And for survivors this does happen: you can 

plan

 To gen rush, but if the killer chases you, you have to switch to evading. For killers who tunnel excessively, they can choose to tunnel every single match and survivors have nothing they can do to change that.

You are deliberately playing with words.

Survivors are 4 people in a match.

If the killer tunnelling excessively, sicking to the same strategy doesn't stop it from being a strategy.

But there's no point in lying about “ have nothing they can do to change that”.

I play alone, and I do things myself. I've had countless games where I helped my teammates enough that the killers gave up and switched to me.Or when tunneling happening so late, killer lost the game. I've had countless games where, on the last gen, the killer was forced to give up tunneling and started trying to pressure map.

For this, If you don't give the killer the opportunity to tunnel for free at the beginning of the game and present the killer with a fait accomplish. Killer either proxy camp and tunnel, so survivors have free gens for killer to pressure less, or they have to distract themselves from the hook, which will buy more time for the survivors for safer rescue. They can't prevent tunneling because it's someone else's strategy. Like out playing strategy is not canceling it, it lowering their effectiveness. The killer also can't prevent gen rush as a concept: they can only react to it. Killer can’t chase 4 people simultaneously to prevent gen progress, it’s just what you want to present as the truth, because, like the developers, you continue to see the survivors in a pure vacuum and not as a group that is initially superior in numbers.

If rebuilding to your style of words.

Killer can plan to tunnel, but if gen efficiency or chases timer overcomes it, killer have to switch to map pressure. If they won't do it, they will lose (until other side would do some mistakes). It's as same as if survivor stubbornly sticks to the generator—he can repair it before dying, but any real progress will lead to defeat, if it was unnecessary trade of life. Same with killers. You might get one kill, but then, if the survivors played carefully and correctly, your chances of winning are minimal. The tunnel is not capable of pausing the game or the other side's progress, so saying that the survivors are unable to do anything is either your own unwillingness to adapt which you like to blame everyone for, or a deliberate lie.

The hook states mention isn't about you specifically, it's a general example. My point is that a very handoldy buff quietly comes to killler--one that was clearly meant to be part of the anti-tunnel--and the killers just rub their greedy hands together

Why using this arguement in our convo anyway? Do I support this? No. What’s it makes with my words or how it gives more weight to anti tunnel proposal? It’s just even more support my position about tag war and that people fight over it rather than actual balancing, and that it should stop.

I don't think these people are a good reflection of anything though. Even if the skill is even, they're too high-performing

To shut down this high performing they playing with heavy restrictions that you would never see in ordinary match. It’s not about what BHVR looking at. It’s about should balance look like this. It’s about what it shows. It shows you can’t play without tunnel on high level. In their matches you actually can see how balancing work.

So looking from your own perspective. Should highly difficult mechanics killers be removed only because they aren’t for casuals? Can you do this? Can you delete nurse? Can you delete SFW in this game? Spread up, gen efficiency? Everything that usualy defines highly effective play? This game stopped being party game as soon as Nurse arrived and first comp appeared . Do you like it or not, it’s a fact. What makes tunneling so special that “you shouldn’t orient on what high play needs/use”, but as soon as something else that benefiting survivors on high play you don’t ask for it to be removed at the same time? Like sfw… oh yeah, maybe because you are playing sfw yourself. Just don’t use its actual advantage most of the time. But why people have to handicap themselves as much as you do? Just because? Why me not handicapping other players on this forum demanding playing without meta or on simple killers?

People should stop complaining on high perforimg play. It always be people simply better in this game and do you like it or not, they know this game better than you. It’s fine to complain on gap between players and asking to make it less evident. It’s not fine doing it through enforcing handicapping and constant shaming . You can adjust initial mechanics only, but touching way of play - it’s not a nice way and pure tribalism and personal hate. And that thing that u put some imaginitive numbers of 5% of survivors being on top cap just shows how you want to highlight that your opinion suddenly should matter more just because in advance.

It’s not sweats ruined your matches. It’s either you can’t adapt to them and demanding them to change instead, either matchmaking being bad, if you like this “adaptation” arguement so much. Or two stuff at the same time. How antitunnel deal with it? Yet again… Doesn’t . Just additional figure to this equation.

But what is and isn't handholdy? Iri add-ons? Endurance and exhaustion perks? Exposed and aura perks? Bloodlust? The whole damn game is handholdy. I can't tell you how often I've won killer matches because of perks, and I'm not running meta. Survivor, not so much. That's more small, immediate advantages, at least for me.

Handholding is when you expecting game dealing with sweats through mechanics by artificially restricting them and not adjusting your tools. It’s by always relying on items and strong tiers . Handholding is playing Ghoul and expecting hight rates just because he is simple and strong , if you want more precise example.

Handholding is wanting/choosing something and expecting it’ll deal with what you want. Making tunneling unattractive or less effective not through the play, but just… because. Handholding is expecting try hards to get easy on you just because you play game differently and blaming them in the way how they play, expecting game deal with your frustration by restricting other side or even punishing.

And again. Do anti tunnel deal with stuff that considered op/handholding? S tiers? Flaws in balances? Do anti tunnel dealing with anything beside tunneling being frustrating? It’s like asking for Ghoul to stay as it is because it’s harder to play on Nurse and Blight for you, but you want something close to their effectiveness. Yes, it’s less frustrating to deal with necessity of improving in micro/macro, to outplay opponents . You don’t need to deal with busted items or serious sfws that much as others, yet mechanically it stays as simple as some Ghostface or Wraith. Does it make Ghoul less braindead or about balancing? No. It’s initial mechanic.

Adapting only seems to be expected of survivors.

This thread already showed that many players expecting this from killers when themselves barely adapting. To what additional thing survivors had to adapt? Where I messaged here: you have to adapt to Ghoul concept, ha ha? You have to adapt to Haddonfield, ha ha ? No, I didn’t say you have to adapt to x thing that is mechanic in this game. Because such stuff is actually discussable. Again, why you ignoring my statement both sides have to adapt and as example push initial game mechanic when I was discussing a way how people play in the context?

Do you really want to argue with pallet density adaptation? Why again, we compare initial system with way how people play? Why we compare pallet density and tunneling? Because they both bring benefits? But why ignoring their difference? One thing was added through mechanics in game. Other thing is how people play. Maybe it works in your reality where try hards is your biggest issue only because of the way how they play, but I make difference between something like pallets being here by default and tunneling becoming a decision committing to it or not…

Like…. That’s the core principle of handholding issue… when you expect adaptaion happening through mechanics. It’s a big difference giving base kit Kindred and base kit DS. First thing gives opportunity to utilise resources- when and who and how rescuing. It doesn’t adapt survivors with concept of rescuing through handholding. It provides them opportunity to manage time. They can fail with it through wrong decisions. Second thing just providing additional resource for free. You can’t fail with using base kit DS through wrong decisions. It’s always be right use despite you even understanding why it’s here and how it works.

Edit: Honestly, I'm tired of repeating the same things. It literally all comes down to one argument. The anti-tunnel is still just a desire for us versus them, and it doesn't solve the problem beyond a tug-of-war. If you think otherwise, so be it. If it suits you, you're absolutely right. I don't have the resources to repeat the same things to the local forum residents, who seem to live in a bubble of perpetual tribalism but try to deny it and present their opinions as the voice of the community and cold, hard facts. Whenever the next fact always boils down to "But x side y thing and this is unfair, so I need z unfair thing to push unfair advantage to my side." It's probably cool to demand other players play the same way you do, just because. Not because you actually play better/use effective play/ trying. Just… just play like me… just because… blah blah, you are try hard and spoiled my casual mood, how dare you not treating game as same as me... I don't need this attitude or treatment… honestly. If I was casually playing and some sweat without personal life went to my match, I would rather blame matchmaking instead of going and crying on forum how evil this people are and that some BHVR police should put them in jail and reinforce new law… Stop expecting win against player who doesn’t handicap themselves by chill behaviour made my life ten times easier when I started to play online games.

So again: if you wish to hear this words, you are 100 times right. I would prefer to play game itself or focus on game rather than player behaviour discussion, because all this thread gave me realisation it never worthy my time. Not my interest

Because gameplay evolve around casual players Ghoul and Krasue appeared. No, don’t even ask me to support such vision of the game. I would never appreciate it because it’s always people asking “balance around lower tiers” on one side only.

If it didn’t touch you, you never would defend such position. Many of your posts that I've seen literally had the direct speech of "try hards cringe," "sweats ruined event," "sweats spoiled that”. Context shows that you actually care A LOT about competitive people. Because you often try to oppose yourself to them. Maybe you simply don't realize how months of reading some of your posts on this forum changed the whole context about perceiving your claims for me.

Hating going against some character just because of the way how people play doesn’t correlate with your words that it’s not bothering you. I doubt you can convince me otherwise simply by saying "no it isn't". I’m pretty sure you even can’t realise how this look from perspective of person less chill than you.

Stop expecting win or fun against player who doesn’t handicap themselves by chill behaviour is actually showing that other way of play doesn’t bother person. They will dominate, it doesn’t provide you an excuse to ask for free tools.

If person doesn’t match my vibe, I don’t go to forum to tell about that and how they spoil x thing by their attitude. I thought “I don’t care” usually work like this.

Sorry, but again — it’s a huge difference between saying you don’t really care, and from day to day post stuff with same sentiment about some people doing x game. Claiming you are unserious and then behaving opposite way have differences.

I made snarky remarks about that too and it was dead people pictures.

It was SUCH unnecessary detail about your personality that simply doesn’t make your words look better if not even worse.

If in your reality person who really “don’t care” writes me such long posts in this thread just to try to explain his position, and then continues to write the same type of stuff where he hates that some part of people ruined game for so long period of time, I barely would believe it in this. Saying you're not serious when you make comments like this doesn't paint your position in a good light, it only makes it ugly idk…

I bet you would speak completely different if some person on this forum would mirror your behaviour and targetting casual players. Especially when you make it under orher people posts making it either off topic (just to unnecessary pushing your itch in comment), or when making it under posts where OP is usually pretty serious, because well, people going on forums for expressing concerns and feeling about sth. And here you are “unserious” man calling someone cringe and buzzkillers.

I don't understand why your comments stop portraying you as someone who can't stand a certain group of players just because you're now trying to cover it up with your unserious attitude. It's like everything has gotten a hundred times worse to me if you're so flippant about the game and still manage to talk about certain people like that just because :/ It either real oblivious happening here, or “I don’t care” become an argument to step back just to pretend words you are writing not showing you in a way that doesn’t benefit to the discussion for your side.

Where?