http://dbd.game/killswitch
Is it just me or do the Killer hook incentives not make sense?
The only thing that affects gameplay is a 5% Haste bonus that goes away when you enter a chase or use your power. This seems like basically nothing.
I get the intent that you want people to leave the hook a bit faster, but 5% Haste really isn't significant in terms of a map mobility standpoint. It's significant in a Chase, but not from getting from Point A to Point B.
There really isn't much of a difference between 4.4 and 4.6 Killers in terms of walking to a generator, for example, so for its intended use case it'll probably be pretty worthless.
I would personally consider trying the following instead:
- Increase the Bloodlust to somewhere between 10-20% (keep the deactivation conditions intact).
- Hook Bloodlust gets removed when a Survivor is Unhooked (so you can't zoom back to the hook to tunnel).
- Add a small percentage increase to the next Generator Damage action. 5-10% as opposed to the inital 20% (gives more of an incentive to leave the Hook, but still requires you to have good game sense to know where to go).
These changes would be a bit more significant, but wouldn't railroad or influence the gameplay hugely.
I'm interested in hearing other opinions on the Killer changes specifically, as they felt underwhelming in my opinion.
Comments
-
All of the changes are underwhelming.
The whole update isn't going to fix anything, it just feels like they put something out there to say, "Here, we did something about it! Stop complaining!"
-3 -
-4
-
I have a feeling the Survivor changes might play out to be more significant gameplay wise than you'd think, but you can't be sure until testing.
Being 10% faster and completely untrackable for 30 seconds gives you a big chance to break LOS and get away, especially if you get hit during that window. It's not going to be feasible to wait out the Endurance anymore at least, which makes it even more likely to be hit.
It doesn't fix tunnelling entirely, but I think it'll give the opportunity to at least waste a LOT more time. I think most killers outside of Nurse/Blight would seriously struggle to get a down at all in that 30s window, provided the Survivor doesn't run into a wall for the entire time.
3 -
It won't do anything against hard tunneling. It's just going to be basekit OTR, which is all well and good, except that OTR already got hard countered by just hitting someone off hook.
The changes are just going to hurt normal players and get weaponized without actually stopping people from tunneling. Which, speaking of your original point, theres no downside to tunneling nor is there an incentive to not tunnel.
Extremely suspect decision-making imo.
2 -
Double post
-1 -
Triple post???
0 -
I sort of agree that tier 1 bloodlust is underwhelming but a higher bonus like 20% speed could cause issues too, especially if killers start moonwalking to try to get that high of a bonus in "chase" (at least when it's designed to not work in chase, which 20% isn't).
I also think using bloodlust is sort of limiting and is going to prevent it from being useful on a lot of killers, and not just the high-tiers. Taking it away from Blight for rushing across the map is cool and all, but presumably Wraith for example would lose it when cloaking, something Wraith will do after almost every hook, and he isn't a killer who should be missing out on the bonus.
I'd honestly rather bring back the haste bonus in the previous PTB with similar mechanics as last time (ie. give the stronger killers a lower bonus, allow it to work in chase which would make it more meaningful but force it to deactivate when hitting a survivor or breaking a pallet). The values for that before I think were fine, which was 10% for 15 seconds for most killers and only 5% for 10 seconds on the stronger killers. This way most killers will feel the impacts more and it could truly be based on killer strength rather than just what killer is more likely to press m2 after a hook - while some of these are high mobility powers, not all of them are (Pig crouch, Ghostface stealth, etc.)
I don't really want basekit pop at all though. It's not balanced with the tunneling penalties being removed and it forced killers into playing around consistently kicking generators after each hook which isn't always the most fun or how everyone prefers to play the game. You can bring Pop as a perk if you want to use it that way, but with the basekit mechanic it wasn't really a choice anymore.
2 -
What is the problem with killers utilizing the buff they get for spreading hooks? Like if killers start moonwalking to keep the haste buff for a bit longer, why is this an issue? If you want killers to not just focus their hooks on 1 or 2 survivors to win their matches, then we can't be scared of killers possibly getting any advantage from the bonuses given to them from spreading hooks
-1 -
It isn't really an issue with what the devs have currently proposed, but it would be if you gave a speed bonus high enough to actually make a noticeable difference for map mobility. The only way to give a speed bonus high enough to make a noticeable impact on map mobility is give a bonus that would be completely unbalanced in a chase. Tier 1 bloodlust (0.2m/s) is important in a chase, but for crossing the map quicker it doesn't amount to much. 20% movement speed would be more noticeable for mobility, but wouldn't feel fair in chase at all. It also would promote awkward gameplay if the bonus was high enough where that was actually optimal. This is why I'd rather give a bonus that is designed to work in chase and balance it accordingly.
1 -
If you want killers to spread out hooks and not just tunnel to get a survivor out of the match, then the bonus needs to be something meaningful. 5% haste (sorry bloodlust) does nothing of the sort and it's currently the only in match benefit the killer gets. We can't be scared of killers benefiting from the bonus meant to incentivize them from just tunneling a survivor to death.
3 -
Which is why I said for most killers it should be 10% like it was last time (just not for the high tier killers). I absolutely agree 5% is not enough for most killers.
-1 -
I mean yeah. 5% blood lust is not even a reward for going for unique hooks. Let alone people thinking this and the survivors effects should straight up just stop tunneling (it shouldn't).
1 -
yeah. I can see an argument that this might just be a first step in preparation for more changes but these incentives are so miniscule that literally nothing will change.
0 -
I think something like Grim Embrace would be better as it couldnt be abused and will still have the effect of giving you a few seconds to get to a gen to pressure. That was the issue with the haste and Pop effect before, that M1 killers couldn’t do anything with it so it wouldn’t change anything.
I think something that blocked the most progressed gen for 5 seconds or something along those lines would be more beneficial. It’s not giving aura reading on survivors that would be strong on S tiers, but would still give you a direction to go and some time to get there.0 -
then basekit DS too please that works 2 times :)
-1 -
The incentives are kinda sad tbh. More BP is always welcome, but I won't throw games just to get more BP.
They should give basekit pain res so the incentives actually work for every type of killer. Killers like hag won't go kick a gen across the map to get the bonus damage. Pain Res base kit would be better. And then you can rework pain res. It also frees the perk slot so killers can use other perks that aren't Pain Res.
Bloodlust is pointless on killers with low mobility for traversal, and for non chase killers like Hag.3 -
Totally agree with you on this one. I'm glad they removed the massive punishment for it, but these things don't really adress the core issues:
- The benefits aren't enough to not tunnel
- Survivors can still easily weaponize their protections to use against the killer offensively
- It doens't actually make tunneling weaker
The anti-camp stuff maybe thats nice its hard to say without testing, the slugging thing fixes the problem of multi slug kind of, but also i'd rather they did the neat idea that reddit had of 2 slugged survivors doing the "hand clasp" thing and picking each other up. So much more interactive, and team based and cool and not just "giving basekit unbreakable"
I really feel they need to just flat out make tunneling IMPOSSIBLE, i don't understand why they can't just, make the survivor just completely immune to everything (with restrictions of course), and then give killers actual basekit benefits for getting a hook, like pop (although i'd prefer pain res as that helps non-blight tier killers much better) and such to incentivize killers to actually hook the survivor.
3 -
If they keep that speed as bloodlust it wont because many killers will rather use power than walk so its still better for 110 no mobility killers or 115 speed no mobility killers than the 5% which will do nothing for blight but same for dreadge or they should balance it like before but haste is still helping the best killers nomather what but than its better than bloodlust which will be gone once you use or just tap your power or break pallet or wall which isnt ideal too. Some regression like 10% to normal and weaker killers and 5% to the ones they excluded before (finally they admit which killers are strongest like billy,nurse,blight,ghoul, dracula,krasue were there and others are strong too but dont have such natural mobility larry has to use camera that is map dependent, wesker only covers 21 meters with both dashes, oni has limited time for his power and other killers with good mobility have some limited places to get to like sadako,dreadge,xenomoph,springtrap uknown).
With strongest killers I meant the killers that have strong power with mobility that is strong and used to get where killer wants while his power cowers other things like antiloop etc. which all of these killers like blight,billy,ghoul are.
1 -
If tunneling is removed entirely, I would not be opposed to giving a very significant bonus.
1 -
I'm sorry, but why should anyone be expecting meaningful incentives not to tunnel? BHVR proposed a bunch of those along with the last system and we were all lead to believe that those changes would end up killing the game.
So they've come back to us with a new system that will make very little practical difference to how trials currently play out. It's just a slightly bigger sticking plaster than the one that's currently offered to Survivors. Situation normal, as they say. If you want real incentives not to tunnel, then there needs to be real punishments in place as well. Else you would have a situation where Killers could reap the benefits of both "playing nice" and also tunnelling, depending on what the situation calls for.
The only thing the new system will do is maybe cut down on the opportunistic tunnelling that occurs when a Killer returns to hook to find the unhooked Survivor bleeding all over the place and making very loud injured noises. That's pretty much all it will do. Hard tunnellers won't stray far enough from the hook for any speed boost reward to be a meaningful buff to them, anyway. There's not really anything that you could offer these players that would be better than permanently reducing the Survivor team's effectiveness by 25% for the rest of the trial.
-2 -
On top of that, I understand bloodlust over haste to not work with powers like Blight, Spirit, ect ect. However, there are many killers with powers that will deactivate the bloodlust that are low tier. Like this bloodlust is completely worthless to me on Onryo, regardless of what number it is. I'll be teleporting as soon as I hook, deactivating it instantly... The slug changes are also gutting the many "slug oriented" killers without any compensation to their kits. They should all be getting large changes along with this nerf to slugging. Pop also affects killers very differently. Way more useful on already strong high mobility killers. I also detest gen kick builds, which is why I like running Surge. Pop built in now forces me to always be kicking.
There's so many angles that these changes are affecting that were not adjusted for.
1
