http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why do they never address why killers actually tunnel ?
Comments
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If you don't mind me asking. What kind of build do you run on your killer main?
Do you only rely on slowdowns, or do you actually run perks that also cover the shortcomings of your killer?As someone who has been playing a lot of killer lately, I can with certainty say that slowdown-exclusive builds are not the way to go, unless you play some crazy high-tier killer who has built-in anti-loop
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pyramid head i use, lethal, corrupt, tinkerer and either trail of toment or noed. (noed due to understanding that gens will fly and get done so i prepare for it).
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Well, in all honesty, you could swap out lethal for something anti-loop, or even nowhere to hide, since it doesn't synergize with your build in any way, other than giving the info at the very start.
Or alternatively, swap tinkerer with any aura perk that can synergize with Lethal. Aura perks are really good on PH.
Corrupt is also not that great anymore, unless you are planning a lot of set-up before going for chases. For the most part, that perk is mostly useful on killers like Trapper and Hag, where you need extra set-up time.So play into an aura build with PH, or get a few anti-loop perks like Brutal and Fire Up, if pallets often stand in your way.
Or, considering that you run trail of torment, use dragon's grip / pop or nowhere to hide in addition to it.
There are quite a few alternatives for synergy with your build. Just try out some different combos, and see what you get the best success with :)2 -
pyramid head has pretty decent anti loop ability, i use lethal to make sure i get into chase asap. i cant afford to waste time looking for survivors at the start of the match. i tried nowhere to hide for a while but i found that people were pre running due to comms so i got no value from the perk, i wouldnt see any aura. corrupt helps me get a down before the first gen is complete, without it atleast 1 gen would pop when im in my first chase. it took a while of experimenting and finding what works and what doesnt and so far i found what works for me.
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Okay? So did I.
Never had any problems when I wasn't tunneling. It was more difficult, certainly didnt lose 90% of the time.
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First one says it should be a close gameSecond one says it should be a game with 8 hooks before someone dies.One wants a fast paced game the other a stealthy one.But that's normal, not just for this game, but any game (or entertainment activity really).
Most of the feedback BHVR takes is 'do you enjoy this', not 'how would you the customer fix it?' (again, this is pretty normal). For two main reasons
1: There is a finite amount of things that already exist, and infinite amount of nuanced possible paths that could be taken.
2: We are all experts on whether we are having fun or not, but whether future change will be fun or not is an educated guess.
If it was solely up to me I'd strip entire core concepts out of the game. If it was just anti-tunnel, I really liked the idea of hiding the unhook, I would have been fine with just that and see what happens, but lots of people seemed to dislike that concept.
Things like 'will X work to reduce Y', or 'how would the 9.2 PTB changes have impacted kill rates' are much more objective discussions to have. Beyond that, people answered broadly what they are looking for - the answers are usually the same for both sides, a sense of agency, engagement, and feeling like their choices are meaningful.
But if these playstyles are ######### too and let Survivors deinstall the game, where is the line?Well, you do what BHVR is doing even if people argue over whether they are executing it well. You try to find out what is preventing your product from being better, you think of ways to address it, then you run it past your players to see how they respond (there's a lot of smaller steps along the lines but I'm trying to summarize). If they respond negatively, you go back a step and work on modifying your idea.
But when we start to nerf these "Strategies/Cheap Tactics" where do we stop?Slippery slope fallacy.
People are always going to complain. Again, that's perfectly normal. Take your examples about the Skull Merchant / Ghoul / Fog Vial. Well each of those was dealt with in very different ways (and each person has differing opinions on whether they took the right approach with each). There's no overall good / bad, each issue would have to be discussed on its own.
Is a dead survivor at four hooks tunneling? Or only at 3 hooks? Is tunneling two survivors out at hook 5 and 6 enough to nerf tunneling more?BHVR could clear up their line on tunneling, but the general issue faces a lot of subjective questions.
Do you want to eliminate tunneling?
Do you want to eliminate problematic tunneling?
Do you want tunneling to just be harder?
Do you want tunneling to be an option, but it to not be as impactful?
Do you want tunneling to be dealt with by perks?
Not only are people going to differ on the goal, they are going to differ on how they'd accomplish the goal.
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not sure what matches you had but like i said, my tunneling and SWF popping gens fast results in a close well balanced match which is the ideal goal, so neither side gets steam rolled. which is why i dont see a problem with tunneling, it counters the SWF in comms.
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Once again, I've had the same thing. I've even played against competitive teams in scrims with stealth Killers.
Nobody gets seal team 6 SWF's all the time.
I would suggest not tunneling and identifying the areas of your gameplay that are holding you back. Can't blame everything on SWF.
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not all the time but a huge proportion of the time i do get seal teams. why or how? could be MMR messing up, could be the time i play and the survivor pool is small, could be many reasons….fact remains my experience as killer is frequent high performing SWF teams.
while you suggest not tunneling and identify areas of my gameplay thats holding me back….that says "dont use a tactic that works and provides balanced gameplay in your matches, instead play a different way".
would it work if i said the same thing? for the people that find looping works or using comms works or using sprint burst works and provides a balanced gameplay in their matches. i say "i would suggest not using these tactics or perks and identify areas of your gameplay thats holding you back". Try winning as survivor without using X perk or using X tactic like looping is the same as saying try winning your killer matches without using this tactic (tunneling)
as survivor and killer there are many perks, tactics and playstyles that people can choose to help them. you cant simply say dont do this, do this instead and not expect others to do the same to you.
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The simplest solution is most often correct. You simply aren't actually getting Seal Team Six SWFs. Unless you are playing with Crossplay Off at degenerate hours (1-4 AM) and/or play in an underpopulated region, the math doesn't add up.
Because I suspect it is letting you compete, but it is also covering up other areas of gameplay that could be improved. You aren't getting multiple Seal Team Six SWFs a night; you shouldn't need to be hard tunneling in 90% of your games. Like I said, the math doesn't add up. Either you are exaggerating or you simply aren't as good as you think.
I am trying to help you out. I understand that nobody wants to be told to lose and figure it out, but deflecting and pushing whataboutisms isn't going to help you.
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fair enough and i say the same to any survivor that offers to help me out by suggesting i change something that works…. try winning your matches without looping, i say this to help them out, so they can learn more than just 1 way to play, so they can learn to counter tunneling. its not deflecting its using your own logic. And once again, you bypass that flaw in your own logic by claiming "whataboutism" without actually addressing it.
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I'm talking about for solo q and swf.
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Because the game is asymmetrical. What works for one side isn't a solution for the other, there is no direct equivalence on the Survivor side for tunneling. You are bringing it up as a deflection of the topic at hand, and it is exceedingly obvious.
It seems to me, considering your blatant refusal to consider anything except your own narrative, and the constant deflection when you are challenged, that you simply want to complain.
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Looping is in no way comparable to tunneling, and simply cannot be avoided the way tunneling can.
If you wanted to offer suggestions of "using our own logic," you could say, "try winning without exhaustion perks or second-chance perks," etc.
Which I do. Meaning, I don't run exhaustion perks or second-chance perks, or Windows of Opportunity. And I win some and I lose some. That's how the game should be.
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using the asymmetrical aspect to avoid your logic being applied to you is a cop out. looping is a highly effective tactic that has been in the game from day 1. can it be countered? yes, some killers counter it better than others.
tunneling is highly effective and been around since day1…its not a new thing. can it be counterd? yes, some tactics and strats counter it better than others. they are very comparable you just refuse to admit it because it would mean admitting that telling one side what they can or cant do means the other side can do the same to you and thats just unacceptable.
i think its pretty clear from recent ptb that tunneling is here to stay like or not. the one shot they had at preventing it was cancelled. people are already saying the next ptb wont stop tunneling and it wont. so survivors have a choice, accept it and learn to counter it or cry about it and have a bad time. as survivor i made my choice and having a great time in matches.
i have fun as survivor and killer, how? by playing my way not by the rulebook my opponent gives me. like it or not it works both ways, you tell me how to play i tell you how to play. or we play our own way.
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if that works for you great, if tunneling isnt an issue for you then cant fault it. you found your play style that works and you can enjoy. i have found mine too. However…. looping can be avoided. i have won many matches not making a single loop. this is done by being stealthy, dont need to loop if i dont get into chase. its also done by losing line of sight when in chase, timing, using the map to your advantage. especially now with the pallet density increased people can just drop pallets and run to the next one and do this most of the match while gens are being done….no loops needed.
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Not one of these things has been removed except literal face-camping (well, you can still do it, actually). But you can still camp from a little ways back and force a second stage. What's the point of this argument if these things do and will still exist?
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i think the point they are making is all of these are all things survivors often complain about. hypothetically, if all these "problem areas" were addressed so survivors had nothing to complain about, what tactics or strategy options would the killer have? i can see the point here.
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The truth is a cop-out answer, apparently. Looping certainly isn't the Survivor equivalent of tunneling. You'd need something else. Closest approximation, which again isn't going to be 1:1 since the roles are functionally different games, is ironically Seal Team Six SWF with toolboxes. It stacks the odds in your favor on the off chance that you get a really good Killer. But, for 99% of games, you just roll them. Considering how much you rant and rail against those pesky Seal Team Six SWFs you apparently get in 90% of your matches, seems like you should be against it.
Now, what would we say to a Survivor who insists they need to bring map offerings, a full SWF and genrushing perks/toolboxes in order to stand a chance in 90% of their games? Well, we'd tell them that's not really true.
Tunneling will stay because BHVR fears Killer players, which is ironic because it used to be the other way around when I was starting out. Now that BHVR has given the green light to continue tunneling, there's nothing anyone can do about it. There is a counter to tunneling, of course. You need to play in a SWF or accept that you just aren't going to win often, unless the Killer is very bad compared to whomever they are chasing.
Now, we'll see more Killer mains carried by tunneling without any skill and more Survivors who only know how to rush gens. Absolutely sad to see the role I invested so much time into become a mockery of itself, rewarding low-skill tactics and punishing anyone who tries to be different. Tunneling is a plague on the game that is preventing Killers from being in a healthier spot, and I wish more people saw that.
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These things aren't going away, people just want them reduced.
Killers complain about pallets? Should we hypothetically remove those too? What about toolboxes, medkits and flashlights? Exhaustion perks? Endurance? Sabos? Again, what's the point? These things won't be removed, people are just asking for these tactics to be reduced by making them have potential comebacks or being more difficult to pull off so they're just not constant.
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OP
Toolboxes were addressed about a year and a half ago… what more do you want to be changed
Healing speeds were addressed about a year ago… what more do you want to be changed
The game is at it's limit at this point and time… they can't change one thing without changing another
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im not against players doing what they need to do to win. what i am against is players telling others how they should or shouldnt play the game. i think its unfair swf teams get advantages soloq just cant have but i play around it, i make soloq work for me even with tunneling. same goes for when im killer, i dont tell these SWF teams stop using comms because its not fair, i simply accept it and play to it via tunneling.
you saying need SWF is needed to counter tunneling which is flat out wrong. im countering it in my solo matches with minimal issues so SWF is not needed at all, it depends on playstyle.
rewarding low skill tactics? so 2 survivors are top loopers and keep the killer busy all match while 2 survivors crank out gens….pretty sure the gen workers are showing no skill at all yet they get rewarded with an escape because other people looped the killer so well. this has always been the case. are these survivors less entitled to win because they showed no skill?
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im fine with that, 100% on board if these tactics are still viable even if made slightly harder to pull off
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Then the purposed changes are fine for you, yes? Because they're pretty minor, and that's all they're doing it—making it slightly harder.
im countering it in my solo matches with minimal issues
It's not really countering if your team loses because of it and you hid and got hatch. If the killer wins because of tunneling, it's not being countered, regardless of whether you yourself escaped. A loss is a loss.
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Now, what would we say to a Survivor who insists they need to bring map offerings, a full SWF and genrushing perks/toolboxes in order to stand a chance in 90% of their games? Well, we'd tell them that's not really true.I've been thinking about how we don't see posts like this.
'You want to nerf syringes? You don't get what its like to be high MMR hitting a sweating Blight. You need a syringe to just stand a chance!'
Sure we get the 'if BHVR goes through with this, all the survivors will quit' type posts, but I don't recall the same 'this is needed because I'm mythic MMR and anyone who disagrees with me must not be.'
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There is no singular desired playstyle. Just as killers are not a hivemind, survivors are not a hivemind.
Personally, I don't mind slugging so long as I'm not deliberately being bled out. I don't mind tunneling when it's done in the endgame. Not even going to address camping.
But tunneling generally kills the fun. I get it, it's easier to go for the person who's injured and has a hook state because then you can eliminate them faster, but at the same time I just don't think that's very fun to play against.
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Think it's likely down to the invidualistic nature of Killer.
Leads to more emphasis on the individual and Survivors have more emphasis on the team, or 'all Survivor players will quit' as you mentioned.
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i wont make any prejudgments on the proposed changes untill i play it myself, im fine giving it a go. worst case scenario i just stop playing killer altogether and only play survivor.
if the score system was based on the team then yes you would have a point but its per player not team based. individual escape rate, individual mmr, individual BP rewards. so if 3 people die and 1 walks out the gate, that 1 person walks away with a win in every aspect.
people often die because of themselves not because of me. when 2 or 3 of my team mates go down in seconds and im half way doing the first gen…what am i supposed to do? help them so they can go down before i even have chance to get to doing a gen? or maybe the killer comes after me instead and the rest of the team avoids gens trying for flashlight saves? if they go down in seconds thats on them not me.
i dont hide all match waiting for the hatch, i do gens while not being seen, i have had matches where i have done 3 gens all on my own and people claimed i was hiding in a locker all match lol. if i can crank out gens while being in a locker then thats some serious skill. But i do gens as top priority which is the objective. i will keep doing gens untill either i have no choice but deal with a chase so i loop and do what i need to do with the hope others do gens… or when my whole team pretty much bungled it so gens cant be done faster than the killer is wiping out the team…thats when my priority turns to hatch.
The only time people have died due to my actions is when i walk out the gate at full health while someone is on hook. can i go for the save? will i? nope. i get mixed responses for that if im honest. some say i should have gone back to help but others say they are glad i didnt because they didnt want the killer getting a 4k.
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I don't agree. If you spread your hooks too much you will lose all of your pressure.
Let me give you an example: if you hook 4 times, each time one different survivor, everyone will be on the first hook. This mean that they have at least one extra hook to play aggressively or even reckless without worrying too much. Even if you get someone out of position and they fall down, the survivor team can probably recover from that because they will still be in 4.
Now, if with 4 hooks you hooked 2 person twice, now you will have 2 people on death hook. This mean that probably won't go for risk saves, try to greed gens or do anything that exposes them too much. NOW YOU HAVE PRESSURE because survivors are under the threat of losing one member if the killer finds the wrong person in the wrong moment.
With all of this said, hard tunneling - focusing on one person only - can be the worst decision a killer can make: you will need to power through perks, basekit DS and you won't affect survivors gen efficiency since the most easy counter to tunneling is doing gens. I've never said you need to focus on one person but you need to know to not spread your hooks on everyone on the team.
Knowing how much you need to spread hooks is part of a killer learning on how to play optimally against strong teams.
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The advantages conferred by being in a SWF compared to SoloQ is coordination and communication.
That's naturally how things work. SoloQ has gradually been raised up to be on near equal footing with SWF in terms of information.
Could Bhvr add voice chat for SoloQ? Sure, but do you really want that? Given how toxic players are in the post-game chat, do you really think they wouldn't be even worse in-game?
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soloq is nowhere near close to being equal to SWF on comms.
can soloq pin point hex totems they see so the whole team know?
can soloq quickly let the 1 guy doing a gen in the shack the stealth killer is heading their way?
can soloq tell the whole team they spotted the killer has a certain perk so be mindful of it?
can soloq tell the team what gen they are on or what areas are pallet dead zones?
Yes i do want comms, if people are toxic there would be a mute button. But for me, i would use comms to call out these things, i could be a team player, it would truly close the gap on soloq and SWF with comms. instead, i feel i have no choice but play for me and play selfishly which is what a lot of survivors hate about soloq.
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We may simply have different definitions of pressure, so to clarify, I consider pressure to be how effectively the killer is exerting control of the pace of the game. Put more simply, pressure is best measured in how many survivors are being forced or encouraged not to work on generators.
The hook, itself, is pressure: one survivor cannot do generators because they're hooked. It also leads to more pressure from someone needing to come save, which means occupying a third in a chase is pretty hefty pressure.
This is also crucial to the macro play, that is the thing you're trying to keep on top of- who is doing generators, where they're doing them, and how much influence you're exerting to get them to stop, that's what the macro of this game is. There's a little bit of keeping track of deadzones and some power-specific stuff in there too, but that's the main thrust of it.
TL;DR for this section: Hooks grant pressure innately, you don't need to wait until after they're unhooked to get the pressure.Tunnelling (chasing someone immediately or shortly after they're unhooked) is circumventing this to try and get an individual in a bad situation while leaving the others to do as they please, which is generators. Most commonly this is just to get someone dead, because that's a winning position for killer, but even bouncing between two is still trying to cash in on easier chases from post-unhooked survivors in exchange for getting to a winning position quicker.
In short, it's trying to avoid managing the 1v4.-3 -
Are you ever going to stop deflecting?
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are you ever going to drop the double standard?
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if the score system was based on the team then yes you would have a point
The wincon should absolutely be changed and personal ERs need to go, but I still have a point regardless. If the killer hard tunnled and won the match then, data-wise, the tunneling succeeded. If you got tunneled and the other three escaped because the killer was busy with you would you say that your countering failed? Because it didn't. The killer lost because they hyperfocused and didn't apply pressure properly. You're individual rate doesn't matter when we're talking big picture.
i get mixed responses for that if im honest
Sure, because all scenarios are different. These scenarios you're providing really ignore the nuance of matches. End game showdowns come in many forms. No one expects you to go for a save if you're injured and the last one remaining, or if a Bubba is camping someone in the basement. But that's way different than 3 healthy people with an accessible hook that's near a door, against a Wraith.
soloq is nowhere near close to being equal to SWF on comms.
More lacking nuance. It's the players who matter. My escape rate is unaffected by being in an SWF. If it's gotten slightly better, it's because I've gotten slightly better. I've had killer matches against obvious partymates who I've completely thrashed, no cheese tactics needed. And I've had matches against skilled solos who worked together beautifully and had such great gamesense that I couldn't touch them. I've had soloq win streaks and SWF loss streaks. The only people that seem to believe in the SWF boogeyman are the ones who haven't spent time with average players playing averagely, just together.
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Unless you stop deflecting towards whataboutisms that have been explained to you, repeatedly, I can't conclude anything else except that you KNOW that you've been lying and/or exaggerating
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Survivor: "Killer, you have to play how i want you to play."
Killer: "ok, can i tell you how to play?"
Survivor: "dont be absurd, im a survivor, our roles are not equal so i can tell you how to play the game. Doesnt mean you can tell me how to play"
Killer: "of course, sorry to even suggest it, you play how you want, i will follow your rules"
Ye thats just not going to happen lol
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You're talking about communication. Which I already covered. Almost every other information gap is provided by the HUD.
Most information that could be conveyed via comms would be imprecise and vague. Knowing the killer is going towards Shack means nothing if you don't know which direction.
Pre-established coordinated callouts are, in general, not widespread across all SWFs. Not every SWF is aiming to win every single match. They go in with the intention of trying to win, but they don't synergize their builds or establish a coordinated callout system. They largely play to have fun together.
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DBD has a very long history of each side trying to tell the other side how to play.
- Bodyblocking is toxic.
- Flashlights are toxic.
- X Perk is toxic.
- Genrushing is toxic.
- Hook sabos are toxic.
- SWF is toxic.
- SWF is cheating.
- Pallet stuns are toxic.
The list could go on and on. The Survivor Rulebook may be infamous as a meme, but that doesn't mean there isn't a Killer Rulebook.
Both sides try to tell the other side how to play. This isn't even exclusive to DBD.
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in some ways i agree the team should be scored as a team… a little unfair that 1 troll can ruin the whole teams score when 3 people are doing ok but thats not the point. its not about what it should be or shouldnt be, its about how it is. and currently we are scored as individuals. if i was the only one to get tunneled out, then i lost but the rest won. my mmr would drop, my escape rate would drop, my BP would be significantly less, my individual rate matters to me as it matters to a lot of people. you might feel ok losing so 3 others can win but i dont go into the match to be the sacrificial lamb so my team can win. if im the solo survivor i won and the killer won…im fine with that.
you wont ever see the side that others see regarding SWF because you simply dont get the matches a lot of others get. Even your way of playing SWF yourself is chilled and dont really make call outs. Yet you repeatedly fail to see the other side which is SWF using comms very effectively and very competitively. im not saying SWF is instant win for survivors like soloq isnt instant loss for survivors. im saying when SWF use comms for call outs they gain an edge, there is no denying it.
perfect example of this which is an average match for me in soloq…..v artist, i was on a gen, 1 in chase 2 others in the distance looking for a hex totem. this is a normal situation. That hex totem is near me but its blocked….i cant tell my team this so they continue to look for it ignoring all gens looking for a Hex totem that they wont find. SWF would be able to call that out so the 2 people looking for the hex could get on gens. This is a normal situation that happens in matches that SWF can handle with ease v soloq. Can these 2 soloq players looking for the hex get on a gen regardless of comms? yes they can, but it doesnt change the fact comms would have an advantage in this situation.
another example…..im on a gen, my whole team is doing another gen in the shack….i can see ghost face sneaking up to them. another common situation in matches. i cant tell them about it as soloq. SWF can, they pre run. This SWF "boogeyman" is a real thing even if you dont see it.
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i agree, killers shouldnt complain about these things either, it works both ways. both sides will do what they need to do. if its not in violation of the rules set out by bhvr its fair game.
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if you think people on comms having a laugh together are keeping quiet about the killer heading up to someone on a gen your very wrong lol. they dont need to play to win. they could be having a laugh then someone sees killer creeping up on someone, they would probably call it out not stay quiet while the killer grabs their team mate off a gen. or would you keep quiet about what your currently seeing and let the killer go for the grab?
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Apparently I wasn't clear enough that most SWFs use vague, landmark-based, imprecise callouts rather than coordinated callouts like the clock system. "On a gen near a L-T wall" could be almost anywhere on the map.
Aside from pallets at specific landmarks, they couldn't tell you precisely which pallets are gone. Communication is not inherently advantageous unless you optimize it.
By time someone says "Killer's heading toward Shack", that information is already outdated. It's also imprecise. Where are they going to shack from? What direction? Are they going to intersect with anyone else on the way?
Giving SoloQ Comms won't put them on the same playing field as a 4-man SWF, because coordinated callouts need to be pre-established. At best, you're putting them on the level of duos — who lose more than their SoloQ counterparts.
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a little unfair that 1 troll can ruin the whole teams score when 3 people are doing ok but thats not the point
No let's visit this. Give me an example of a troll.
you might feel ok losing so 3 others can win but i dont go into the match to be the sacrificial lamb so my team can win
You're missing my primary point. We're talking about whether tunneling can be countered in regards to the killer winning. You can feel however you want about your personal outcome, but if the killler tunnels and gets a 3k they won and they were successful with their tactic and in the generated data that is an example of tunneling being effective and not being countered.
I'm actually really curious who these killers are that you go against. Most surpress hatch with slugging in my matches. I barely remember what the thing looks like at this point.
you wont ever see the side that others see regarding SWF because you simply dont get the matches a lot of others get
Do you think I've never played solo? How do you think I met people? I've played tons of solo, I'm just currently fed up. But when you say this:
im saying when SWF use comms for call outs they gain an edge, there is no denying it.
I think you are, again, missing nuances. II've certainly used it for callouts, but not like some mechanical warrior. Most of the info I gain on comms also comes to me from either using my eyes, using gamesense, or using my perks. Even in SWF, I always run Empathy for info. My whole build is exactly the same in soloq as it is in SWF. It's also a matter of how well those callouts are used, and who your teammates are. I could say, "Killer is at shack/main/little boat/water tower" but I could also say, "Killer is at, uh, that rock, with the tree, and the, ya know, the wood thing" and by the time I've screwed that up the killer is on my teammates. I also miss skill checks because of comms, far more than I do off of them. They are not a golden ticket. The person who is talking matters more than the fact that they are doing so.
i cant tell my team this so they continue to look for it ignoring all gens looking for a Hex totem that they wont find
This is a good example because it's more about a bad play. If the totem isn't one that needs to be cleansed immedialty and the killer was busy, they should have been on gens. The problem with solo is more bad choices than anything else.
In regards to the Ghost Face one, teams clustering around one gen is also dumb unless cranking it is a priority. Idk why good gen spreading is not understod by so many. You saw him though, you could have snapped him out of power. That would have made it so he couldn't mark them anyway. That's likely the exact play we would have made in SWF.
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ok so a troll being someone that tried to sabotage the match for survivors like body blocking…. as soloq is it fair that 1 person body blocking 1 other person being chased then means the 2 other people that are doing gens get effected by this? currently if a troll decides to body block a looper then me and the other team player on gens are not effected as much because we have our own scores, our own escapes to work towards. But score it as a whole team and that 1 act ruins the score the whole team.
if the killer is getting 3k via tunneling then thats because the other 3 players misplayed by 1. not being stealthy enough and 2. not being good enough at looping. This being the case, yes killer won with tunneling which COULD have been countered if the survivors didnt misplay. survivors didnt counter it so the killer rightfully gets the win. sounds reasonable to me.
the hatch remains a viable option for people that can stealth…killers slug in my matches too. i heal when i know the killer isnt around, they usually go down again because they are injured so easy to find but it means i get on a gen while killer is chasing the injured player….this works towards opening the gate and resets the afk crows incase i need to sneak around a bit more. if killer camps thr slug i can do a totem or open chests to buy time. when they eventually bleed out or get hooked then its hatch time. i many saved clips, i think i uploaded one to youtube recently where blight downed the 3rd survivor, hooked and waited by the shack knowing exactly what i was going to do. i timed it, ran and got hatch with split second timing.
regarding SWF, you almost see what i mean…. you say solo is more bad play which is true. bad play which would be corrected with comms causing good play. with ghost face scenario the killer could have moved behind a rock a wall meaning i cant snap him out of power. ok change it so all survivors are playing the correct way, all spread out on gens, just seen ghost face or pig or myers heading to a survivor on a gen, i still cant let that player know killer is heading their way. now this casual mention via comms would make a huge difference. im not talking about seal team precision and constant call outs like pros, im talking about casual "hey killer heading your way" during the chilled out having a laugh vibe. How can you not see how that would effect things? with the ghost face comment suggesting the onus would be on me to cancel his power says your trying to make excuses to prove that comms wouldnt benefit the situation when it clearly would.
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comms saying killer heading to shack is all thats needed, thats often enough time sneak away or atleast pre run, hide in locker. you dont need seal quality comms for it to be effective. i pre run with TR sometimes, it helps, i dont know where the killer coming from i just know they are close and getting closer. same applies with comms, it basically gives stealth killers a terror radius which they shouldnt have.
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Okay, you mean intentional griefing. I can give you three total examples of this happening in my survivor matches, and one was in a 3man, so SWF didn't save us from the one random teaming up with the killer. One was a solo match where a 3man threw the match to bully me specifically. The third was probably also a 3man, and I think its just because the match was hopeless and they wanted to take me down with them, so they unhooked me in the killer's face and body blocked me. That's three total examples. A few others from my killer matches, but in those cases, I let the innocent parties leave. Unwarranted griefing is not acceptable. But, for the most part, true griefing with no good reason is rare, from what I've seen. If it's happening to you a lot, consider that there might be a reason for that. There'd be far more benefits to turning survivors into a proper team then there would be disadvantages. It would completely flip the feel of soloq into what it's like to be on a 4man who cares about one another's fates.
This being the case, yes killer won with tunneling which COULD have been countered if the survivors didnt misplay
You really think the three people who died from tunneling all misplayed. It couldn't be the rat who threw because they took no aggro? One well-played body block can throw off a tunnel attempt. Four people can't rat the whole match. That's just not how this game works. And it can't possibly be the fault of the Kaneki whi hurled himself across the map the second he heard the unhook.
when they eventually bleed out or get hooked then its hatch time
Ah, you're waiting out the bleedout. Christ, that's boring. I'm not cleansing totems and hiding in lockers for four minutes. This would also never fly in my killer matches. I don't care if it takes 30 minutes, if people are hiding, I'll find them. There are only so many lockers and bushes.
bad play which would be corrected with comms causing good play
Hahahaha I can't tell if this is naively optimistic or intentionally deceptive, but I'm leaning toward the latter. Imagine the mini leaders trying to tell randos what to do and what they're doing wrong while using callouts and terminology some 100 hour newb has never heard. I'm sure that'll go well. Not to mention what will happen when there's just two rats slinking around the map remaining. In-game tips and a better tutorial would be infinitely more helpful than fighting and nastiness. Comms can come if the wincon changes. As it is now, with people like you not caring about the team aspect of the game, they simply don't make sense. They'll be used to harm one another once the match is clearly lost.
with the ghost face comment suggesting the onus would be on me to cancel his power says your trying to make excuses to prove that comms wouldnt benefit the situation when it clearly would.
Because that's the easy solution without the comms. You follow him and snap him out. It's the good play, but it's not the cowardly one. As things are, the onus (the forum word of the week, along with "handholding") is on you for being the one to see him.
I think I kind of get it now. You're only measurement of fun is winning, even when it's the most skillless, boring journey to get there. That's why you think comms are so valuable. Meanwhile, my measuresmnt of fun is if we get a good joke or a funny clip out of it. Max efficiency is not what most people are doing, but you think it is because that's what you'd do. You're not exaggerating their power, I agree there, but you are exaggerating how often that power is utilized by those actually using them.
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im not saying griefing happens to me specifically, but it can and has happened to other people in my matches and like hell im going to allow a griefer to effect me because they want to bully someone else…im not getting caught in that crossfire. And with the cheating thats going recently with hackers….these hackers would be boosting team mates scores if its team based even if the rest of the team isnt hacking. These things shouldnt happen but fact is they do. so when…not if but when they do happen they shouldnt effect other innocent people. if its team scoring not individual it might make me play more as a team it might have the opposite effect. i mean why bother trying if i can let my team mates do the work? i could do nothing, let them do gens and chases and if they are good enough i take the benefits for doing nothing. But scoring people as a team will never work because we are not a team if we all have our own goals such as escape via hatch and 1 going for adept and 1 doing totems…thats not a team thats individuals with individual goals. At best soloq players are 4 individuals with a common goal. it is sounding more and more like you play mostly SWF.
Yes if 3 people go down that fast then they misplayed badly. they probably werent stealthy enough or dont do so good with loops or they unhook too soon or tried to do saves and failed, there are so many common mistakes people do which leads to them all getting downed. you think the 1 person doing gens should stop doing gens and take aggro for the lousy players that cant last 5 seconds in a chase? 4 people can "rat" the whole match if they know how to play stealthy, its rare but i have a few matches where this has been the case….the result usually leads to a couple of gens being done before the killer has chased anyone and they often DC.
bleed out is only 4min, so if it takes you 30min to find me in a match then you would need to flat out ignore the injured survivor so they could do gens because if you down them you got 4min to find me not 30min.
no one said anything about telling randoms how to play, they could make that decision on their own. but im willing to bed if i said "dwight, killer heading your way" they wouldnt go "im not doing what you tell me to do" lol if they do then thats on them but my guess would be they would move.
Now you have just proven how effective SWF with comms can be…solo solution is follow ghost face to snap him out of his power. that means i have to stop what im doing on the gen to accomplish something comms could do in a fraction of the time and wouldnt need to stop the gen. Throw in dead mans switch and that gen could be blocked. See how effective comms can be v solo ways of accomplishing the same goal? By all means SWF teams can have fun and a laugh and not use comms like seal teams but they dont have to because 1 little comment via comms goes a long way and can often mean the killer has a harder time.
How we have fun can differ and it isnt wrong having fun winning or having fun joking around with friends. which is why im happy with how things are, people can meme all they want i still play to win and accomplish that goal with enough success that i still find the game fun. Which is why i wont tell anyone how to play the game because i play my way. i wont tell a killer "dont tunnel, your ruining my fun" i wont tell a killer "stop memeing and chase me", i wont say to a survivor on my team "stop doing whatever it is your doing that means the killer is downing you in seconds", i wont even tell SWF not to use comms" or "dont do gens, meme around with me". However, my attitude does change when im told how to play the game and told stop tunneling, stop being stealthy….then i fire back with stop doing what your doing and play how i want you to play to prove a point.
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Cheating has nothing to do with anything. I've landed cheaters on my survivor teams. They're already boosting even random teams when they happen, unless you stay and let the killer kill you. There's nothing you can do about cheaters and nothing in the game should revolve around their existence either.
i mean why bother trying if i can let my team mates do the work?
If one person is completly inactive and the killer isnt a baby then you're not going to win. This would only work with horribly unbalanced matchmaking. The killler role is too strong for someone to just AFK.
At best soloq players are 4 individuals with a common goal. it is sounding more and more like you play mostly SWF.
And that's the problem, because the really good players aren't like this. You're not going to find a skilled survivor who's used to going up against 10k hour Blights in a locker.
I've played about 50/50, but even so, it's often in duos or trios. There's usually at least one random in the lobby. Some are fantastic and are clearly accustomed to team playing. Some are utterly useless. The quality difference is easy to spot.
solo solution is follow ghost face to snap him out of his power
No, it's the solution in both cases. It's logical, if the gen in shack is nearly done, for the one person outside to take his attention away. The only difference is the person on comms would announce what they're doing. But the outcome is the same.
Yes if 3 people go down that fast then they misplayed badly
I didn't say three people going down at once. I said tunneled. Totally different things. A killer can hard tunnel someone out at 5 gens because their teammate just unhooked them in the killer's face and ran away, doing nothing to help their teammate. That misplay is on the person who did the unhook.
bleed out is only 4min, so if it takes you 30min to find me in a match then you would need to flat out ignore the injured survivor so they could do gens because if you down them you got 4min to find me not 30min.
Sometimes there are two hiders in a hopleleas match. That has taken me to the 30 minute mark. If multiple gens are left, I'll look for the uninjured person. As long as one stays injured, that one is easy to find. They're already jittery and chasing them off gens ia easy. You can also pick someone up and get them back on their feet so they don't die. They're generally not fans of being left to die so they aren't going to cause problems, especially since finding the rat means I'll give them hatch. Most people figure that out. Rats are not beloved.
no one said anything about telling randoms how to play, they could make that decision on their own
It's what will happen. Too many personalities will be in play, and someone will try to take the lead and tell other people what they're doing wrong. They'll get frustrated, they'll get nasty, they'll get accusatory. Even friends get frustrated with each other. You think strangers with no reason to be nice will be fine?
No one can really tell anyone how to play. The game tells you how to play. So if tunneling becomes harder, you're not being told you can't do it, you're being told you shouldn't because it's lost value. Same with the game reducing stealth more and more. There's a reason you see most people frowning on this in your convos. It's not what's going on in 2025 DbD.
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