http://dbd.game/killswitch
Abandon and stats
I decided to run a test to verify whether abandons actually affect escape rates and yes, they do. Matches where you abandon or disconnect are excluded from your stats.
Since my last session, I've played a total of 27 matches with one survivor, but only 19 were counted. Why? Because 7 were abandons and 1 was a disconnect, which aligns with the missing 8 matches.
Curiously, the stats say I escaped only 12 more times. Out of those 19 counted matches, I had 12 gate escapes, 1 hatch escape, 1 killer DC, 5 sacrifices. So apparently, hatch escape and killer DC are counted as matches but not added to the escape rate? Weird.
Following the stats, my escape rate for this DBD session is 12/19 = 63%
But is it accurate? No.
If abandons and DCs were counted as sacrifices, and hatch and killer DCs were counted as escapes, then 14/27 = 51%.
Conclusion: Using abandon does indeed inflate escape rates.
Match history:
Escape, dead, dead, dc
Abandon, dead, escape (hatch), abandon
Escape, abandon, escape, escape
Escape, abandon, abandon, dead
Abandon, escape, escape, escape
killer dc, escape, dead, escape
abandon, escape, escape
Comments
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Man, this is so bad. We're never going to have anything accurate to reference if survivor players are being gaslit with vanity stats. I have a feeling my mirror killer test isn't going to be nearly so off.
Hatch should count though, as that is extra odd.
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Bro that is wild that they aren’t counted. On killer like 90% of my matches have survivor abandons since it’s basically just a go next faster feature at this point. So nearly all my matches aren’t even counted lol. This is ridiculous. This makes the stats utterly worthless.
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But do your numbers reflect that? I think this is affecting survivor numbers more than killers. I have an 80%+ KR for the month out of 200+ matches. Almost every single match has a DC or abandon. If they weren't counted I'd have like a 50% KR out of like 30 matches or something.
But I agree, they're worthless. Not just worthless, but false data is detrimental to our understanding of anything.
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Killer’s KR affected if they Insta abandon instead of hooking survivors. If killer DC while everyone in match is bots it’s directly reflecting on their KR
So KR numbers on specific killers can be inflicted in cases of
– Massive slug
– Insta give up from the team
If you don’t stay with match with bots you have a chance of losing your MMR
It doesn't cancel the fact of stats being worthless. This game doesn't have MMR and people feel fine with throwing matches for their teammates. Killer never had such high numbers if in game “weak link” wasn't a drastic difference in skill, and bots didn't mean basically being worthless
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I'm 100% sure killer stats are not affected by this or every match would get thrown out. Like I think the way it works is if YOU as survivor/killer abandon or dc and not another person. Eg all survivors abandon/dc and you're left with bots. If you abandon as well, then the match won't be counted. If you clean up the bots, it does.
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The wording in that response was "you and their stats are unaffected" so idk. It seems that the match doesn't get thrown out for killers (much like if I die before someone abandons I'm guessing I still get a death) but I'm wondering if individual people might get removed entirely. I'm also really curious about the abandons that show up on match history as escapes, as well as genuine DCs. If these do change numbers, it might not make a huge difference, but it'll do something.
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so just like i said….all i need to do as survivor is be the last one remaining (or last 2 remaining if the killer slugs). this puts me in a no lose situation where i can either escape via gates or hatch or get downed, abandon and void my loss. When you consider this effects MMR too, if i abandon 19/20 matches and escape 1/20….my mmr will remain neutral 19/20 matches and go UP 1/20 matches….. do this long enough and my MMR will increase.
simply….last survivor remaining can never lose which is what i said from day 1 when they brought in abandon feature and people were using it to bypass the mori.
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100% escape rate too
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I mean yeah. From the killer pov it counts but not for the survivors. It's so stupid and I wonder how it impacts BHVR stats…
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exactly, and this is what bhvr balances the game around? stats and mmr? im wondering how many people have used the abandon as the new go next….2 people slugged, one on hook, last guy runs up to killer to get downed for the free abandon instead of playing the match and potentially getting a win. or survivor downed twice then abandons because well why not? 3 other players are stuck with a bot which effects the match and the potential escape.
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There are some decisions that BHVR makes that are so baffling that I would love nothing more than to hear their logic process at how they arrived at their conclusion.
It should be simple: you abandon, you lose (i.e. dead, or if killer, they escape).
I don't think I've seen anyone ever want anything else (except perhaps the idea of killer abandoning if two survivors are in extended hide mode). I would love to know how, even though I think 99% of players would have done the opposite, they ended up on this.
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i think because the abandon was designed to void matches where the killer was being toxic mass slugging the whole team and waiting for them to bleed out. for no good reason. survivors could just abandon, void the toxic match and play another match. makes sense why these matches v a toxic killer isnt considered a loss, no one wants to deal with that sort of killer especially get a loss on their record because of it. But the abandon has been used outside of its intent, intentionally using it as go next and avoiding a mori, and now we are seeing the impact.
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Hopefully they will fix it. Or just remove the abandon option, or the stats page. The last option is for them to intentionally prop up false stats.
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while they are dealing with the false stats they should also ajust the mmr that people are gaining and not losing. its no wonder so many people are having issues as survivor if their mmr is being artificially raised so they go against killers above their skill level and get tunneled as a result.
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The stats website has no correlation with the stats that we collect internally that work for things like MMR and the stats we periodically show to players.
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I'm sort of confused what the point is then?
Why give players stats that aren't an accurate reflection of how the game works? A player's displayed killrate on the stats website seems null and void to me if the game (like MMR) operates off of different numbers.
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Respectfully, what's the point then.
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well, when i was keeping track of my stats on a daily basis they were accurate from a survivor standpoint although here are some caveats why you might be pushing some misinformation although we can't be certain.
- the website updates once a day at 6 am eastern time
- the website doesn't update YESTERDAY's stats, it updates the day before yesterday's stats.
and so today's stats don't have todays stats or yesterdays stats included; only everything up to the day before yesterday. so if that's how you're accounting for your games on the site you might be missing games just due to the wonky update process.
it's also possible they changed how the update works on the site but this is how it was working during the anniversary event.
the only thing that seems to be tracked on a game by game basis is your match history although that has been the most inaccurate part of the site; for a few weeks that part of the site basically was nonfunctioning even.
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Could you please clarify how DCs and abandons affect MMR? Are they counted as losses?
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When asked regarding the stats website being incorrect, this is was the response. If they are not tracked on the stats website with the reasoning being they do not affect MMR then does that mean abandoning does not affect MMR (remains neutral), or does it go down? I think this needs to be clarified.
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I would love to get an answer for this as well.
Does DC's and abandons count as losses in the MMR calculation, or do they not affect it at all?
I know the stat page counts abandons as escapes for survivors, and DC's are just blank notes.1 -
Thats…concerning.
Why would you release an official stat stracker when its inaccurate?
Why would you release an official stat tracker knowing its inaccurate & doesn't corelate to how BHVR collects and displays said data?
Is the goal to confuse players? What is the point of the stat tracker then.
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I don't know about others, but I’m not excited seeing data if they not showing actual play…
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Depending on the queries they make of their database, they can deduce why people abandon and dc. The information is pertinent to their balancing and surely they don't just ignore the info.
This is the type of stuff I wish they would talk about on their dev streams, instead of just the superficial stuff.
On a funny note, this thing with the tracker has been known for a while now. On discord, there were a handful of guys that would brag about their 90+% escape streaks and have pics to back it up. Amazing.
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This makes no sense… isn't the point of Abandon to basically skip waiting out the loss of the game and go next? Surely to abandon is to forfeit the game and should be an auto loss?
As someone who doesn't really use abandon, because I ain't no wimp (j/k 😏), this is just bewildering 😶
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No there's no missing data. I took day before and after it was updated.
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The way I am interpreting this now is that BHVR has their own internal data for balancing purposes, but that’s not what is used for the player stat tracker.That's known, though BHVR doesn't do a good job explaining it. They have discussed that while they have simple data they track and report (i.e. kill rates), they also follow things like splits of 0k, 1k, 2k, etc, game length, and lots of other data.
Why would BHVR give the players a separate set of data to use that they know is inaccurate due to the significant percentage of matches that have abandons?I have four possible theories
1: The simple - when they coded the stat tracker for individuals, it was set up without a parameter for abandons, so it just calculates abandons the same way it does DCs.
To me that is a massive oversight, though at least its a reason.
2: The deceptive - by excluding abandons, they give survivors an inflated sense of how frequently they escape, making them feel better about their performance and thus the game.
3: The conspiracy theory - everyone has conspiracy theories about BHVR it seems, mine is that they intentionally leave themselves some 'low hanging fruit'. Lots of changes to DbD are inevitably going to be controversial, so they leave some clear wins. Past examples to me of this are improvements to the bloodweb, but another example would be a 'hey, we just improved the stats' tracker!' to give themselves a 'good job' from the community.
4: They actually think its what should happen - basically, whoever set this up believes that people think of abandons as games that didn't happen. This by far the most illogical to me. Which is saying something, I would far rather believe there was a massive oversight or actual devious behavior than that a human being thought 'well, obviously abandons shouldn't count'.
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It's a way for devs to manipulate the stats and throw out survivor wins and count killer wins.
Post edited by mecca on-4 -
I have four possible theories
So, I feel like #1 (simple) is at least the most plausible. Although it's a bit baffling that they would release both abandons and stat tracker so close together without consciously considering the outcome.
Yet, it's not unheard of to think that the "right hand isn't aware of what the left hand is doing", especially if they're different teams working on those different projects.
If it's a communication issue, or a technical limitation those are explanations. And, the simplest answer is usually correct.
That said, if anyone from a marketing standpoint looked at this, then it's also possible that #2 is an option. Telling everyone collectively "look how good you are at the game" can help mitigate subconsciously how people perceive things. It's also dishonest, assuming of course that this was a conscious decision to basically manipulate the data.
The real issue here is that the data we have isn't reflecting the player experience. So why is that the case? Even if I have to see a third option of escapes, deaths, or disconnect/abandons that would at least be transparent.
But they should never be telling players that their escape rate is 60%, (simply because we aren't counting half of your games tonight).
And, (tin foil hat time), especially with this community, if I had the goal of "driving engagement", all I would have to do is simultaneously tell killers they have an 80%+ kill rate, and survivors that they have a 60%+ escape rate, and then stand back and watch the community feed off of that to fuel outrage.
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Literally this.
None of this makes sense why we even have it then if it’s designed to be completely inaccurate data. It’s just intentionally misleading.
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Really wish I hadn't given the Stat Tracker such high praise on the survey, now… :(
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I'm so disappointed. I filled in the Player Satisfaction Survey a couple of days ago saying how nice the Stats tracker was only to find out its completely inaccurate 🤦♂️
BHVR has me looking like a fool once again.
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Isn't this doing the exact opposite of that though? I don't think many survivors abandon when they're winning, so by throwing out abandoned games on the tracker, it would display a higher escape rate than what has actually been the case.
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I personally think it's a mixture of things.
I can believe this was a coding issue, but it's been a minute since the stat page and the abandon feature were introduced. If it's hard to fix, close the stat page until it can be. At the very least, but a big, loud banner that says the stats are inaccurate.
But instead of doing that, they're pushing the page in the new survey. They've also been awfully quiet in regards to our inquiries. Many people use this page as their only reference, and people in the forum are constantly dropping thier survivor stats as an example of how easy survivor is. BHVR can see this is how they're being used. It's hard not to think it's nefarious at this point.
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And, (tin foil hat time), especially with this community, if I had the goal of "driving engagement",One of the reason I think this is more true than I probably would have in the past, is how they handled the 9.2 PTB. We first got an incomplete drop of information of what was going to happen on a Friday, so we could all fight it out over the weekend with guesswork. It definitely drove engagement, while also meaning most of the comments would go unnoticed because of the weekend (which, incidentally, is true about this as well).
They've also been awfully quiet in regards to our inquiries.I think about it too much, but I'm always interested in what they stay quiet about.
An example is all the talk about the exit survey this week. We got a pretty quick 'actually, this is where we get the data from' post.
Did we get one updating that the original screenshots that got posted where actually out of date and the survey was a little different? No
Did we get an explanation of how much impact this survey has in relation to other feedback? No
Did we get actual numbers on how many people chose this? No
Explanation of why they chose the options they did? No, that was for the community to argue out
Now, I'm of the belief that BHVR trying to make detailed responses to every complaint that arises on the forums would be a waste of their time. But when multiple threads are popping up over an issue that could hypothetically have been solved with something like 'hey, when we said we saw this as a reason in the livestream, that was just meant to drive home the importance, not imply that we didn't have lots of other feedback and data leading to this conclusion' and most people would have moved on.
The abandon system feels like it is in the same place. Every time they've ever made a comment on it, things have blown up, but they've avoided making any statement (that I've seen) over why they did it the way they did.
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I'm fine with them letting us engage (pronounced "fight") over definitions, ideas, ethics, ptbs, etc, but if you’ve got people who typically do nothing but tear and claw at one another aligning on a concern and asking for details, that's the time to step in. There were an awful lot of people credited in the anniversary loading screen as community engagement/social media types. Popping in here once or twice a day to make sure the house isn't on fire shouldn't be beyond them. This is one place where they can exert full control, unlike public social media. There should be more official happenings in the forum.
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