Krasue Opinions
Let her break pallets, remove the vault and she will be so much more fun for both sides.
Comments
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Break pallet and instantly catch up killer #500 would not be more fun for both sides.
Being able to use her inability to break pallets in Head Form is an important part of her counterplay.
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She already can with Dissoloution though, I feel when she is used with perks like that is where she is most oppressive, as It removes any counterplay aside from hold W
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I completely agree with this suggestion. Vault nerf was overkill and vaulting barely make sense now, unless it's literally god pallet. But I would take pallet breaking instead vault revert.
Idk, she kinda need some slight rework maybe, I didn't see her in 2 weeks. And I didn't play her myself for this time, because last 3 games were against really good survivors and it was very unenjoyable experience. But I'm not even sure what could make her more fun for both sides.
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I played a lot of Krasue lately and I must say that she's at good spot right now in term of oppressivness in 1v1 she's significantly weker, mainly to:
→ ignoring obstruction for 0.3s (was 0.6s)
→ wind up time being 0.32s (was 0.2s)
→ pallet vault 1.9s (was 1.5s, then 1.7s)
→ cooldown after spit being 1s (was 0.1s)
→ she has collision in head form (thus survivor can slow her massively by bodyblocking either force her to trasform and infect on hit them three times in head form in which time the infected survivor is already cleansed and they can just swap - best counterplay to Krasue for sacrifice of longer game by negating most of killer strenght
Conclusion: She's balanced in term of 1v1 with window to counterplay her, and teamwork slows her down massively, therefore she's in good spot where she's nowhere to spot she used to be before but still decent.
I'd personally do two changes to her:
→ Decrease vault back to 1.7s
→ Decrease flight movespeed to 6m/s (is 7m/s)
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At this point, yes. We already knew from original chucky and Wesker that having a killer that can vault pallets either problematic and often a useless ability but nothing in between. Still, the devs did what they like to do - not learn their lesson and repeat yesterday's mistake. I also wouldn't call it more fun but let her feel better since you are often force to go back to bodyform, break pallet, go back to headform which feels annoying to do.
In my opinion, she is the only killer that the devs managed to ruin from PTB to live. First they overbuffed her in an unfun way and then they nerfed her and left her in a spot where she feels clunky and stupid to play as. Like instead of fixing the tunneling issue like they did with Wesker, they just punish her for hooking survivorsand making the whole fungus play-slowdown-part unnecessary, which also removes smart decisions of where to leave fungi.
I think making the projectile a bigger part of her power and tweaking the dash move with more hug tech could put her in a more fun to play as and against spot.
What you took as an example with your three matches; yesterday I had two matches against full meta groups (four Syringes, three Styptics, two STB, two Deli, four DH, DS, UB). These are the general unenjoyable experiences when everything you do doesn't matter when they get carried by second chance and doing the normal counterplay on top of it - no killer has good time against it. But this is rather a 70% balance issue on the survivor than on the killer side, which the developers probably will never understand based on their last PTB. The other 30% are killer issues: I'm fine with counterplay since it encourages more interaction but killers like Dredge (remove Remnant), Artist (take her crows), or Krasue (bodyblock) feel unenjoyable in the way that's so free to do without any punishment. I wish the counterplay would have a bit more of risk to not make it completely free and unfair compared to other killers.
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One more thing about her that is annoying is that she can be crouchteched HARD.
But overall, yes, in many short loops, you cannot catch up to a survivor because of predropped pallets.
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That's the thing, if she runs dissolution or bam its the most non-interactive thing because she has a manual vault, but if she doesn't have it, having to swap to get rid of things she physically cannot play around because she can't break pallets feels bad, especially when you're dealing with bodyblocks and such. Having to switch to break pallets also means you're dropping another mushroom, when the "mushroom economy" is already out of balance because you lose Leech off the hook.
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Break pallet and catch up wouldn't be her power because she can play around many tiles. If you were just breaking every pallet that wouldn't be the best way to play her and wouldn't be very strong because that allows people more time to go for body-blocks and such. She actually has a lot of chase interactivity playing for the stun and I think the macro interaction with body-blocks is the most important part of her identity. Without a perk, outside of god pallets without a connected window the pallet vault is literally a dead power with no use.
Pre-dropping things that are completely safe against her and forcing her to transform is not an important part of her counterplay, it's just a tedious thing that makes her feel bad. You would still be able to find safety in those pallets, but it wouldn't be a ton of free distance in that situation. They could even give her a slightly longer pallet break in Head form if they really needed to.0 -
In my opinion, she is the only killer that the devs managed to ruin from PTB to live.
I wouldn't say so. Most of her changes from ptb to live were with QoL intensions and they improved many things that felt clunky. I think it's her core problem by design: she is very strong against survivors without comms and pretty mid against coordinated ones. It was so even on PTB and nothing changed about it. That's why I think she needs some design adjustment.
Yeah, I would like to spend more time in body form, sadly there is not so much gameplay for it.no killer has good time against it
No killer has TIME against it. It's simply absurd how ignorant we are to this. Every killer strategy was nerfed, every strongest build was nerfed, every strongest perk was nerfed at least twice, what about SWF? Ah yeah, keep getting buffs for 10 years straight while being strongest role.
And worst part you don't even need to be good at the game to perform good with all this stuff. Like, you are bad Blight with strongest build? Great, you will lose, because all your perks work on hooking and you don't hook. You are bad in swf with strongest stuff? Don't worry, perks will carry you no matter what.-1 -
I wouldn't say so. Most of her changes from ptb to live were with QoL intensions and they improved many things that felt clunky. I think it's her core problem by design: she is very strong against survivors without comms and pretty mid against coordinated ones. It was so even on PTB and nothing changed about it. That's why I think she needs some design adjustment.
Yes, on the PTB she felt really clunky but for me the devs did too much to make it smooth and then they nerfed her in some wrong way just to make the community happy - she needed some nerfs and adjustment but in a slightly different way. I would even say that I liked the PTB version a bit more because it felt skillful to hit a survivor with the whip while now she feels a bit too easy for how strong she is (I miss the satisfying feeling). During all this time, the devs just ignored her core weaknesses like how weak she becomes once one survivors bodyblocks for another one and you notice these moments in the situations you mentioned: It is a big difference between playing Krasue against SoloQ or SWF team.
On the other hand, the developers also ignore game issues that make killers weak or lead to the issues the devs try to solve (tunnelling, slugging, camping): Survivors get strong basekit changes or perks that make many killers automatically weak: 70 seconds hook-timer that is very forgiving of mistakes, perks that punish killers for hooking (Shoulder the Burden, Resurgence, Wicked, Deliverance, DH) while nerfing killer perks that reward killers for hooking (PainRes, Grim Embrace, Pop) or in general the difference between recent survivor and killer perks. Same for how easy it became to flashlight/pallet save survivors due to the increased flashlight time-window, BGP, or Champion of Light - back then you needed a lot of expereriences and time to get a save and even that was risky but it also felt satisfying when you were able to rescue a teammate and nowadays, after a few hours, you can do it constantly from the other side of the map. Not to mention how much of a difference a fat commodious toolbox can make. Then, the devs still refuse to close the gap between SoloQ and SWF, which would also solve a lot of problems from a survivor pov. I think in this point we agree mostly based on your statement in the second section. Sure, some killers just became outdated over time or are just weak in general (Trapper, Ghost Face, Demo) but many became weaker due to impactful gameplay changes.
That's also why I'm a bit afraid of tomorrow's dev stream because it will show if the devs understand the core game-issue that create tunnelling, slugging, and camping after a second round or whether they refuse to understand the origin of the problems and simply want to slap a band-aid fix on them, which will solve them in the here and now but will create bigger problems in a few weeks.
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So I played about 20 matches of Krasue lately and here are my opinions:
→ Infecting someone is way harder, the autoaim only home onto you and a lot of time it should hit but didn't. I even watched some replayes of streamers I played against.
→ There are too many fungi around map, with the big nerfs whe received her 1v1 is significantly weaker. Therefore there can be easily 4 fungi on map as they are created whenever killer uses power and can be placed strategically as it takes 90s for them to relocate.
→ Vault over pallets is completely useless. While I am kind of hater of any scamper "ya looking at you Ghoul", I feel that her being unable to break pallet and vault so slowly at same time just forces you to switch and break every pallet in body form - and that's so hindering, especially with more pallets now, that you just can't do that, fake it at best which won't work against better survivor.
→ Infecting someone in head form is too long. Krasue's biggest weakness is combating someone in head form when they are not infected. Fe. survivor that has gen 95 % and if you switch you lose the gen and mostly cant reach the m1 or you interup them with whip but they can still finish it before they are hit again. Bodyblocking someone is by far pretty tuned against her. As long as one person has fungus, they can tank hits switch position and repeat. I defienetly used too see more bodyblocking before, but I think there is less now, because she's not as oppressive in 1v1 so survivors give away more hooks for faster gens. If you get bodyblocked, you are forced to whip 3x or switch, lose a lot of distance, then infect, which is harder now, then switch back to head. While I understand that 2 hitting someone to infect them would force people to play only head mode, the gland projectile might be slighty reverted.
→ As a survivor, you can hold w around loop as she's 5 % faster than normal but can't get any faster. At this point you can waste a lot of time due to slow scamper, that she eventually just needs to switch to human form and break the pallet. The whip being longer to wind up now gives decent reaction time to dodge it, more of 50/50 when in open.
→ Headlong flight is the only truly tuned part of her kit, you just zoom around map. And she might have the best mobility of any killer in the game, and you can even increase fly time with add ons to the point where you just zoom around for like 30s.
Overall conclusion: She's in the spot where she can be either fine or feel weak when facing coordinated teams. No more nerfs are needed but also no buffs should be done. If anything changed, number of fungi migh be adjusted as well as they regrow time if Krasue doesn't create any for brief period of time to prevent intentionaly spawn all fungi in basment to prevent survivors from picking up the fungus. From survivor pov I played against her about three times, and while we got out with her having about 6 hooks, it felt nothing interesting or entertaining to play against her other than blocking her head. Would rate her down in term of interactions and overall satisfaction from getting chased.
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tbh the changes to her infection made her complete crap because you will rarely every get anyone to stage 2.
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It's not true. Reaching lv2 takes 100s, which is enough to find fungus. The amount of fungi and gland aim assist nerf made it way worse. So you don't hit people of wall as easy as it used to be while there are still a lot of fungi around map, up to 6 I think. So everyone can hold fungus and 2 fungi are still there. I don't blame every Krasue from running chicken head as early bodyblocks mostly cost you victory. I don't know how faster leech and eventual passive injuries like Plague has would work for Krasue as she has strong chase power.
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There were 10 fungi before, now it's 6. But surely Krasue's way weaker now with 0.4s longer vaults, cleansing off hook, shorter dash with longer wind up and not ignoring collisions as she used to.
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