Should DC penalties be Harsher?

There's a difference between, for example, people like me who hate Dredge.

Sure, there's people who dislike him, but there's a lot of dislike for Legion. They even removed him from 2v8 over it.

It's a judgement call, at the end of the day, but we should strive to have engaging gameplay for both sides and Mend Simulator isn't it.

never actually understood that term… "mending simulator". the whole point to survivors is do gens, pressing a button now and then. playing a gen simulator is ok but mending isnt? personally i thought people would love the mending thing considering there is such an issue with tunneling lol.

legion was removed from 2 v 8 due to being teamed with oni, which im not sure was the right call. i think oni should be the one to be removed. super fast, 1 hit down slug master v legion hit and run… i rather deal with legion. standard 1 v 4, legion has major downfalls and can be countered easier than most killers, hes engaging with the survivors via chase, not built to tunnel or camp. As a whole player base, i honestly dont think people know what they want.

Don't worry. BHVR will give survivor players the ability to auto mend without pressing a button in the future.

Ooh, you're in luck, I looove taming brats! <3 Mama will spank you good. <3

The one thing that would stop me from DC-ing against Plague is if BHVR added a feature that allowed me to change the sound effects of the survivors' gagging sounds, because it's not Plague herself I am against, it's the coughing and gagging my sick survivors do, which makes me feel incredibly sick when playing against her.

As a Legion main myself, I had a three-man DC against me a couple of weeks ago while trying for Adept Legion. It was after my first Feral Slash strike…it wasn't the fifth hit down, it was just me getting a single first hit. Their SoloQ teammate and I stared at each other (they were all on the same gen) as the bots scattered like startled birds, so I decided to farm the bots and let the Solo teammate leave via hatch.

Pretty much this, I play Legion because he scratches a part of my ADHD brain that likes to scream "gotta go fast!" Which makes him fun for me. It's why I also like a lot of killers who can do the Hit and Run playstyle, like Wraith, Wesker, Doctor and to an extent Ghoul. They have playstyles that help the "chase the shiny!" impulses in my brain.

I understand it's an annoying playstyle to many survivors, and even killer players who like the more strategic killers that make them feel like they're playing chess.

So the idea of reworking Legion, Wraith, Ghoul, and Wesker into something more "palatable" for everyone feels…idk targeted? Its like saying that the hit and run playstyle is wrong and shouldn't be done. But what do I know?

i agree with that in part, it can be annoying to have blight after blight every match but legion is no where near as common as the top tier killers. but in the current match, due to people not wanting gens to take a long time it restricts the timeframe of the match. gens can be done in like 5 - 7min roughly, that doesnt give much room for moderation. i think either matches need to last longer (gens take longer or another objective added) to allow time for such moderation or very short matches with minimal moderation with interaction will remain. something has to give.

I agree with that. Its unfair to that last remaining survivor

Oh I agree, I think a disguise killer could be fun. Especially if it could disguise itself as not just other survivors, but kind of like a prophunt mimic/monster? Could quite literally call it The Mimic or The Deceiver or something along those lines. Its an elderitch monster along the lines of Unknown and/or Dredge and can change it's form at will and change into almost anything from items, to gens, hooks, other survivors or even other killers etc. While it's "true" form is a black mass with lots of eyes and tentacles or something…idk, but you get the idea.

I would hate for a rework of Legion into the disguise concept they had in their trailer (even then the "disguise" is more so that Frank had taken off his mask to run with David, which doesn't really signify that Legion had a disguise mechanic, but just was a reveal "killer in a mask" for the trailer. But I digress.), because I'd be losing a killer I fell in love with because of the "zoomies" hit and run playstyle.
It's how a lot of people feel about the Skerchant's first rework and eventual gutting, her abilities at release were overtuned and a little too versatile, and needed to be adjusted. He second release was much, much better, but still needed tweaking. She didn't deserve to be absolutely gutted.

All of that above to say that killers need adjustments absolutely, but full reworks should be avoided for as long as possible to avoid a Skerchant and Chuckey "scamper" situation. No killer deserves to be nuked from orbit just because some people don't immediately grasp the counterplay. That said, there is a lot of bullshit about Ghoul, but in comparison to his release, he is much more manageable now imho.

Now all BHVR needs to do is to start readjusting some of the changes they've made to survivors, and it can start with adjusting perks that effect gen repair speeds.

Exactly. GUTTING a killer shouldn't be the answer. Mechant is the shining reason as to why not to gut a killer and Freddy is the example why you shouldn't rework willy nilly.

Both of those are last resorts not "MERCHANT THEM" which I've unironically seen?

Thanks for wording it so much better then me!

if they removed the notifications/sxf you wouldn’t even notice. In fact thats what behavior should do. Run an experiment for a month. Then these types of pointless discussions would stop. Don’t change the player name and just reward the players with extra blood points.

I am not saying she shouldn't have been touch, I am saying elbow droping something isnt good.

Completely gutting something is nerver good, like how they did to fog vials

The reason she wasnt touched(reworked) in ptb was specifically because Freddy's multiple reworks upset his mains. So now you can at best do one rework, without backlash

It also doesn't help that there is a knee-jerk reactions that has been happening with ptb and items.

Did I get misinformation? Because i assumed she wasnt touched because they claimed it was due to them not wanting to upset the current mains?

This is an honest question

Honestly, my hope is that they go back to Skerchant 2.0 and tweak as needed. I do hope they get input from people who actually play her and adore her, instead of listening to people who just want to hate for the sake of hating.

That said, I think Skerchant is in the same boat as Legion and Ghoul. It won't matter how BHVR reworks her kit, add-ons etc, she will forever be tainted by her OG release. Especially since she was dripped in the middle of the Gen-Kick/Hostage meta, right after Knight's release.

We can only hope they learn from their past mistakes, but BHVR's track record at the moment isn't…all that great…

The problem with that is that fun is subjective. There are more then enough people who have no problem with legion.

Plus in legions case when people say "mending is annoying" what they mean is "I don't want to be forced to do something other then gens when I am not chased". That gets pretty clear when every single rework idea that doesn't completely changes them switches mend for something the survivor can just ignore and keep doing gens and that is then seen as a fix.

And a good portion of legion hate also comes from the hit and run playstyle. Many survivors want a chase and with legion you mostly get the chase only when you are the last one he reaches. I had so many dcs no matter the killer by simply not chasing that one survivor that is a bit to good in chase or that shows up too often on my screen.

In the end if a character really is a major problem then bhvr of course needs to change them but we are talking major issues. Just not liking the killers power is not a major issue or every killer would need to be reworked. Hell even trapper regularly gets complaints

We're talking about the DC penalty, not the go-next prevention.

Oh true. It should be one free penalty because I am oh so generous and then 10 minutes X2 thereafter. The integrity of the game is currently compromised by how often survivors dc. What's crazy is how horribly this has affected me as I have transitioned from a killer to survivor player. I cannot find the want to keep spamming normal games on survivor when the ones sabotaging me are the my teamates. I have no chance to win in 30% of my games and it's not because of whatever the killer is playing or how they are playing, it's because I have a teammate who gave up less than a minute into the match or had no intention of trying the entire trial. As bad as it feels to have someone hard tunneled out of the match especially while the killer is proxy camping the entire time(even though this isn't a very effective win con for killer) a survivor teammate losing the game for me off the rip is by far the worst and a hard majority of the time it's not because of slugging, camping, tunneling or an S tier killer, it's because someone got caught being oblivious off the rip and then played out the rest of the chase horribly.

The current give up/DC rate is so abhorrent and any real player couldn't possibly justify it. There are survivor problems that could be fixed, but even if they were it wouldn't matter, the community is semi doomed. They already got their mindset locked in, they can't be given enough EVER to change it.

I can go tune into some random killer streamer playing the worst loadout on the a sub B tier killer, a gimmick loadout even and people will DC/give up as they are being chased for the first time, 2 gens remaining. This is an epidemic, a plague on the game that will not be rectified by any concessions to survivor players.

I am not some biased killer player saying this. With the sheer amount of educational killer content out there killers in NA have the edge, simply because if a killer player goes out of their way to learn their role it's so much easier compared to the click bait for fun garbage survivor content creators are forced to dish out for views. BUT, I can't even comprehend how much lower the % of survivor players going outside the game to learn their role is compared to killers. I picked up killer in 2021 and binge watched otz and two one trick killers to get into the game. In equal parts playing and watching I easily surpassed 95% of killer players in 2 months. I tried my best to find the same content on survivor side a year later because the role has an immense skill ceiling. I found a very informative video from crush on how to play vs blight followed by 35 non informative videos just for views(again no blame, it's pretty forced).

The point being survivor have a mindset trickled down from the OG community of survivors where they could mess around for fun and then still get out, not even because they were that much better than the killer which is still possible. Survivors have a lower average skill at their own role compared to killer which is easier to pick up and has an extremely educational content creator community. Whereas survivors don't have a community like that and don't really want to go out of their way to learn their role and by extension how to play vs each individual killer.

Harsher DC penalties will push away burnt out people from the game what is needed right now.

How so?

You can no longer wait out the penalty; you have to clear it by playing 20 matches (which is dumb, because it prompts those people to keep queueing up rather than stepping away) . And you have to queue up for the timer to start counting down, again meaning you can't just wait it out. There's nothing weak about that.

But sure, let's make the penalty even harsher one more time. Maybe then everyone will realize that they're using the wrong medicine entirely.

Or maybe they won't, because no one ever learns.