BHVR cmon
while I’m very grateful your taking the feedback seriously but there’s a problem
Not every YouTuber or dbd influencer is 100% correct this update wouldn’t have killed the game
You could have still introduced the killer unique hooks and added some as is and balance from there
scrapping everything is just saying your bending the knee and caving to all pressure
I will say I’m happy the camping changes are coming and that is perfect, I feel the perk changes were fine they didn’t need to get reverted(except BS, OTR, Wicked)
Comments
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Did you even try the PTB and play as killer against a compentent team? (I.E. in customs not relying on MMR which is non-existant in PTB?)
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Scrapping everything is the right move.
This iteration was bad. It didn't punish tunnel, but made not tunneling more difficult.
First iteration was better, and could have worked with some relatively simple adjustments, like adding an additional hook state or two to trigger the anti tunnel penalty. Big punishment, yes, but the rewards could have been adjusted appropriately.
Scrapping it was the correct call.
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I agree the first iteration was better all they needed to do was make it so if you kill someone before you get 4 hook stages you get punished. I wouldn’t punish them by making regressing gens and blocking impossible
I would just give survivors the 25% repair speed bonus
It helps curb 1v3, it punishes tunneling and it doesn’t make lose lose scenarios everybody wins plus 4 survivors they gain the 25% lost
-2 -
Oh great instead of something we get nothing I completely believe Devs ain't gonna try anymore to solve slugging, tunneling and camping we just gotta deal with it apparently. im just gonna stop playing survivor.
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I feel you. While the changes weren't perfect and definitely needed adjustments, it had less overall issues than the previous PTB and I felt like there was a lot of room for improvement on this patch that didn't constitute mostly just reverting everything. I understood reverting the changes last time because there were much bigger fundamental flaws that weren't fixable in the timeframe between a PTB and a release, but this second time around I felt like we were much closer to an acceptable solution only for it to all be thrown away. These are problems that will not disappear on their own and I'm admittedly pretty disappointed with this outcome.
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all scrapping this will do is give killers the green light to ramp up the excessive amounts of tunneling just like it did the first time. I don’t trust bhvr to reduce the pallets or fix chainable tiles. So yeah we’re just going to get tunneled easier and faster. Dbd deserves to die at this point. They should’ve reverted the medkit addon changes but nope survivors just need to be weaker.
Why is it okay for a killer to tunnel someone out at 5 gens but not okay for a killer to get outplayed and get a 0k? Why do killers get everything and the moon while survivors just get slapped in the face?
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I would rather nothing than a half-baked change that will make things drastically worse.
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Was there any changes at all to the blood rush on unique hook? Something i didn't hear get mentioned and went be surprised it was dropped. It's mostly useless and made Beast of Prey a bit too good
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What a nothing update the next patch will be. I'm sure I'd feel something if I hadn't gone way past the point of disappointment already. Needless to say, there's nothing in this update that'll tempt me away from my Killer main era anytime soon. I honestly think it's time to give up on the anti-tunnel and anti-slugging stuff. The fact that they couldn't get even the weakest possible reductions through a PTB like this makes me think anything else we might get in the future wouldn't be worth BHVR's time or effort.
Also a bit gutted I didn't pick up Furtive Chase when I had the chance to in the Shrine last week (I'm saving up for the Naughty Bear Trapper skin). It would have fitted very nicely into my stealth Legion build :(
Oh well.
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In fact, I'm actually glad they actually listened to the feedback
Even their comment about the pallets was encouraging; I hope they change them exactly as they suggested, and not the usual way
Regarding the 15 seconds after unhooking - I also agree. But in the end game, I think it wasn't necessary to do this → Revert back to 10
Regarding the anti-tunnel and anti-slug, I have bipolar disorder, so I'll keep my opinion to myself-4 -
Scrapping this version of anti-tunnel / anti-slug is okay, since it really did not help the core issue.
- Just simply changing the hook notifications to not trigger immediately on unhook is more than enough.Also, why are the medkit changes still going through?
Wasn't the syringe changes pretty unanimously hated, by making exhaustion builds even stronger? Why is that still kept?
And the complete gutting of the styptic?0 -
Man, aside from balance, first iteration makes the game completely linear and boring for both sides.
Everyone's forced to play in exactly the same way in every single match, it takes away all the macro-management from both parties. Is that what you really want?
-9 -
Bit surprised they scrapped the anti-slug. Not how I'd have liked to implement it (EG: require the survivor to recover to 95% then crawl to and under a hook to pick themselves with a somewhat lengthy process, added time to crawl to a hook, and provides a mindgame between the two as to where the survivor may be that adds some risk), but it at least didn't seem too intrusive.
I agree with the scrap of the anti-tunnel effect. Doesn't do much against mobility Killers who can leverage speed to catchup and ignore anti-camp given the unhooked survivor it at a specified point after unhook. Having vision on the hooked survivor is enough to give you a vector to follow, as is the absence of that information and prediction of pathing.
But I think the Elusive status has a place to be fleshed out and used in Perks or moving forward.
Only thing I can think of that may still be slightly problematic is the anti-camp ramp up being multiplicative with the distance ramp up, may be a bit annoying for trap setup characters, especially on multi-floor buildings (or EG: Trapper trapping shack), but reverting the distance at least makes sense. Again, not how I'd like anti-camp to be implemented (EG: require the survivors to put in effort to relocate the unhooked survivor somehow when the unhook occurs, suppressing both survivors information from the killer for a duration afterwards, with this process being less efficient than going for a normal safe unhook)
And while I do think that the anti-tunnel reward for killers in the 9.2 iteration was cookie cutter, they could reintroduce it with selective bonuses rather than giving the killer everything at once, make it a choice for them to make based on killer and game-state.
All in all though what I don't like about the current anti-camp/anti-tunnel/anti-slug is that it's all player vs system. The survivors are doing nothing gameplay related for these effect, just sitting and waiting while stewing about this happening.
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the changes weren't even that bad…. literally a little bit of extra time to get away so someone could play the game. The only major change was the camping/proxy camping that allowed survivors to get off hook if the killer stood around. That would have made the difference…
But BHVR even say a big F OFF to survivors by keeping the changes to Styptic and Syringe from PTB and reverts the changes to everything else. This is wild…
The best thing BHVR did in the last 2 (non-released) PTB's was to remove the notification of being unhooked.That needs to be implemented and that'll be the 1st step to resolving the 40% tunnel issue.
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So instead of buffing killers in healthy ways that incentivise not tunneling and slugging, in a way that killers don't have to do so to keep up with good survivors, they just revert all the changes so killers can again keep up against good survivors, but only by tunneling and camping.
6 months for nothing, bravo BHVR.
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Yes for the love of god please stop playing survivor. I can only hope more and more people do so.
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Thats the neat part.
You arent. You could still tunnel perfectly well, you just had a penalty, which made you think twice.
Unlike live, where if you want to win, you tunnel every time. Talk about linear.
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Dont forget the part about MMR change. That could be the biggest out of all the changes.
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I don't agree when the previous build was right there to use, could have even used this time to be doing major bug fixing or polish to the game.
Instead we have chapters delayed and possibly lost a survivor chapter over this and that's just upsetting.
So many killers could have recieved meaningful bug fixes with this time, actual Quality of Life, Legendaries too could have been bug fixed also (so many are bugged rn).
IDK it's just really disappointing how this has been handled, I'd rather get meaningful polish and bug fixes over cold feet constantly over systems, there is taking feedback and then there is just being afraid to commit a direction.0 -
Could've used it, but they decided not to.
I figured they wouldn't, so scrapping a bad system is the best out of a terrible situation of their own making
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I suppose, it's just a shame to have so much delayed/taken away when people like me are supporting them buying cosmetics and passes and all the chapters, because I love this game so much.
Just to see it burnt in front of me with wasted time, like come the heck on, can we please start just polishing this game at the very least with this QoL initiative with the love it deserves.1 -
Not to be mean, but why would they start now? People have been buying and supporting them for almost a decade, and quite honestly, the game is really ######### quality. Amazing concept, nothing else like it, but the polish is unacceptable from any other publisher.
You'd think that since they have no other successful games, they'd prioritize their runaway hit a little more.
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The idea of punishing killers for tunnelling in 1st iteration is just completely stupid. Killer's job is to kill, and purposefully ignoring survivors who run directly at you, either intentional and misplay, is totally beyond stupid.
Instead of punishing tunneling, buffing killers who don't tunnel is the way to go.
-6 -
Tunneling is already too strong, and certainly too easy. We don't need to introduce another mechanic that's a rival in strength.
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No it's fine, I know you mean well, it's just this is the biggest QoL initiative they've done and it's been an utter disaster, that's why it matter so much.
If this is their best attempt to fix this game, there is no hope and we are very right to be upset about that.
I just want them to do better and learn, that's all I want.0 -
When have they ever learned lol? We are almost at a decade of this. I've personally witnessed eight years of it.
I didn't want to be negative, but there was a reason I said wait and see when it came to this "QoL Initiative".
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I've been here since launch too, I even have the email to prove it lol 9 years off and on.
This game grew more and more into something I loved, I have so many good memories of it, I'm just not a comp gamer all I care about is the fun.
You were right to be like that, I was too, I just didn't expect it to be this much of a disaster. It's crazy, I really really hope they learn from this.0 -
At this point I wish they'd just rip the plaster off, they're gonna hit something with a sledgehammer eventually I just wonder what.
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I mean, not to sound pessimistic, but BHVR has effectively no incentive to do more than the bare minimum.
There's no meaningful competition (every other assyms are either dead or dying).
The licenses alone could keep the game standing (let's be honest, if licenses never came to DBD, that game would have died years ago) and every new licenses bring in a wave of players from an entirely different community (retention is bad, but it's enough).
Even after every repeated disasters this year (all those disaster streams/collabs, major changes being repeatedly canceled etc.) people are still buying stuff. So from a business point of view, there's no need to put more effort and resources on a formula that already works and isn't in any real danger no matter how many mistakes are made.
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Correct
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Skillfulstone gets it.
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I find it hilarious that people actually had faith in the studio after all they've done in the past.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Streamers like Otz and the wanna be Otz (can't think of his name) are one of the biggest problem with this game. They're not impartial, have too much to say and they have far too much influence. If they say overzealous needs nerfing, every killer will start calling for a nerf. I'm not impartial and I play 50/50, so there's no way they're impartial.
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I too think that all BHVR needs to do is make unique hooks better. However, they don't think that such a change can be done without a ptb. They want to "test" it out first. For the same reason we got 2 ptbs with rolled back changes.
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The QOL initiative went exactly as I assumed it would. Very lacklustre. Only good thing to come out of it was the visible hook counts. Probably the only thing, actually, though I acknowledge it was supposed to be a survivor focused year (per the anniversary stream).
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Lol tunnelling is too strong. Maybe it's too strong for you with 12k hours in game, and so does survivor's stuff when they have the proper knowledge of how to use everything to their advantage.
Besides, if tunnelling is too strong for you, you could just stop tunnelling in your own will, you know. NO ONE forces you to tunnel when you have 90% Kill Rates.
-1 -
Oh yeah, if tunnelling is already too strong, why did you say killers need tunnel to win? You can't be right in both case, right?
-2 -
According to the stats site, I have less than 2K. Is that true? No, but it's funny 😂
Yes, it's certainly quite a bit of overkill when I'm far more experienced than my opponents.
I haven't tunneled, unless I either know the team or they show me that they aren't randoms, in quite a few years. Not much reason to go all-out on a bunch of normal players, what could I possibly get out of that besides ego? I don't learn, I don't improve my skills.
So, I'm pleased to report that most, if not all, of my 90% KR is organically and ethically sourced.
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Complicated question.
Are we trying to do a 'gotcha' moment or are you genuinely curious?
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Sad but true
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We've got the abandon system, which has allowed them to make it look like survivor escape numbers are far better than they actually are.
So quicker losing and gaslighting.
The thing I don't get: why even bother? If this is BHVR's stance, just keep pumping new content until the game collapses under its weight. But they actively denied themselves money by delaying content and then failed to deliver on multiple things they said would be coming.
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Wait, the unique hook incentive is also gone? Lmao.
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Ah that's right, the abandon system too. Dunno how I forgot that one.
Next up is the matchmaking overhaul, though iirc the last time they touched matchmaking was just after Chucky's release and content creators kicked up a stink. So I'll make sure to have my popcorn ready for that fiasco, and the inevitable backtracking on that too 🍿
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Killer's job is to kill, and purposefully ignoring survivors who run directly at you, either intentional and misplay, is totally beyond stupid.
That's the neat part of 9.2.0's design: You absolutely didn't need to ignore them. Survivors intentionally getting themselves killed would still absolutely favour the killer, since the anti-tunnel benefits weren't nearly strong enough to compensate for a dead survivor. It was the combo of chase extension and the anti-tunnel benefit that made tunnelling not the obvious meta 24/7.
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Changing matchmaking has four problems given what BHVR has said / we've seen:
1: To have a better matchmaker, you need to give it more time. More time means people sit in the lobbies longer.
2: At the upper extremes you're just going to have Nurse/Blight and SWFs, and as you mentioned BHVR already decided not to go down that route for the blowback they received.
3: Measuring skill in DbD is incredibly hard and they have said they didn't like the old rank system because it more measured how frequently someone played and not skill.
4: BHVR has said that according to their data players are usually matched up pretty well based on MMR. Unless they are just lying about that, it requires them changing a system they think is working.
Given all of those issues, I don't know how they actually overhaul matchmaking unless they changed their minds on one or more of those issues.
Though I think it would be funny given how QoL has gone if they nudge the soft cap up a trivial amount after a long PTB and declare success.
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Because I don't think BHVR is malicious. I think they do genuinely want to improve the game, and had good intentions for this initiative.
I just think they are incompetent.
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I think that is true. I've been comparing things to the 3 gen and AFC camp changes - BHVR went into those with a 'this is going to happen' attitude, a clear intent on what level they wanted to change, and were open to modifying around the edges but not the entire concept. They avoided the doomsayers, even pointing out in the forums takes that didn't make sense, and were able to focus on dealing with an extreme issue. I wish they had been able to approach these quality of life changes with the same focus.
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True, but they've also had their mind set on some really horrible things as well.
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