How to get Killers to hook more instead of tunneling?
Hello everyone,
as always i broke my stupid head about this game with the "simple" question: How could we get Killers to hook more insteat of tunneling one person out as soon as possible.
I had a simple idea which would need some perks to be reworked.
Example:
Pain Res: We all know that this perk is meta for many players and won´t leave their build. The Killer wants to hook you instead of slugging you. This perk become a big problem if someone dies at the third hook and it still procs for 3 other survivors. Maybe the perk should be changed like this:
If you hook the survivor for the first time the generator with the most progress will get at 15% regression. If the next survivor is a new survivor the regression gets an additional bonus of 1% if you manage to get all 4 Survivors to the same hook stage counter you get an additional regression of 6%. Boosting the perk to 25% regression with tokens if you manage to get all Survivors to the first hook stage before someone reaches the second. But if the same Survivor gets hooked twice in a row the perk loses 5% of its regression.
What does this mean?
The Killer must go for different survivors to get the maximum out of the perk. But if he decides to tunnel someone out early he will cripple his own perk.
The bad thing about my idea is, BHVR would need to go over many perks this way. So that a hooking Killer gets a reward, while a tunneling Killer gets a nerf.
Comments
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you need to nerf gen speed or give big buffs to gen regression to lower tunneling your changes are bad btw because you don't understand gens pop fast
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I didn´t nerf Pain res at all. The starting point is exactly the same. You get 15% for the first hook as you do now. The difference starts now. If you manage to get someone else you get a bonus regression. If you tunnel you lose that bonus because you gain "the natural slowdown"
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>but if the same survivor is hooked twice in a row the perk loses 5% regression
>i didn't nerf pain res at all
you still aren't considering the killer's perspective because in high mmr where people do gens 2-3 gens pop in the first chase you have no choice but to tunnel
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The perk isn´t nerfed until you as Killer decide to tunnel which gives you natural slowdown. In high MMR when you start to tunnel you won´t get much value out of Pain Res at all. If you go for the same Survivor in high Elo (if you need to or not) won´t give you the hooks from Pain res on the other Survivors at all because they should have finished the gens to that point.
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>In high MMR when you start to tunnel you won´t get much value out of Pain Res at all.
>If you go for the same Survivor in high Elo (if you need to or not) won´t give you the hooks from Pain res on the other Survivors at all
if this is true but if you change
>if the same survivor is hooked twice in a row the perk loses 5% regression
is in play it's just a straight nerf to pain res and your statement
>The Killer must go for different survivors to get the maximum out of the perk. But if he decides to tunnel someone out early he will cripple his own perk.
just means that pain res will just be dumpstered since it'll be useless in high mmr it's just an unnecessary change and would probably lead to more tunneling since you removed an option for killers which is why i say buff gen regression or nerf gen speeds
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Because if gens take 5 Minutes per Gen Killers won´t tunnel? Like they didn´t tunnel in erruption era?
My point is simple. Give Killers buffs when they play for hooks. Nerf them if they decide to tunnel because this strategy is still strong on its own.
Yeah maybe the top 5% of high MMR is hit by this, because they "need" to tunnel but all players lower than this can effort to nut tunnel if they get something for this playstyle to not tunnel in return.
-1 -
Well, there are lots of possible options.
The worst possible idea is buffing other things up to tunnel value. Tunnel is too strong and reward for the level of skill displayed is unbalanced. It would be like dealing with gen rush by giving survivors med kits with three insta heals.
If you don't mind totally eviscerating the feel of the game, you could go for shared hook states.
If you want to just remove it entirely, you could have unhooked survivors be completely intangible until they interacted with anything.
You could make it more difficult by buffing the boosts survivors get off hook. The problem with this is that the S Tier killers could just power through it.
You could make proxy tunneling more difficult, say by hiding when the unhook occurs from the killer.
Or you could make the 3v1 more attractive for survivors. Say a gen speed boost for the other survivors that is dependent upon how many hook states the killer has. You could even throw in some unique hook bonuses to balance it out.
I'd do the last two options which I think would be a substantial improvement to the game. Oh, that's basically just a refined version of the 9.2 PTB.
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The problem in my honest opinion is the following.
You will never stop tunneling. If the Killer wants to tunnel you for what ever reason (wants to win, wants pressure, just doesn´t like your name what so ever) The only thing you can do is trying to push this playstyle away by giving the other playstyle which survivors prefer (going for 12 hook) a better perspective.
Thats what I try to do with such posts. Going away from the "Give Killers death penalty if they dare to look at a hooked survivor" to an alternative way where you can say "Yeah this is still winable."
Not a single one in this forum can convince me that in the current state of the game the best Survivor team vs the best killer would be possible to go for a 12 hook game by playing "Friendly"
Thats why I don´t look at the high MMR.
It seems that people didn´t understand my point on the top or I wrote it to complicated.
In my version of Pain Res every hook would trigger the perk.
Example:
Going for tunnel:
1st hook 15%
2nd hook on the same survivor 10%
3rd hook 5%.
All on the same Survivor.
Going for different hooks:
1st hook 15%
2nd hook 16%
3rd hook 17%
4th hook is it individual 23% Is it someone you hooked before but not the person you hooked last 18%
If you hook the same person twice it will lose 5% from the percentage you are currently at.
So no, I didn´t nerf pain res at all. You could even say I buffed it cause it activates on all hooks. Just with less regression when you tunnel. If you don´t tunnel you get the standard perk with extra regression.
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I've suggested this several times.
Do away with all gen regression perks as they're pretty useless after being nerfd into oblivion and make hooks regress gens instead.
Survivor's first hook x% second hook lower x% and third hook 0% but you have the kill to compensate for no further regression.
Personally I'd rather hook 8 survivors and all escape than a boring 4k or constant survivor dc all day long.
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You will never stop tunneling.I don't think you even need to (or should). It's an elimination game after all.
What makes tunneling bad?
1: If successful, the other three survivors are done for and the game becomes boring.
2: If not successful, the other survivors sat on gens and the game wasn't very meaningful.
3: The tunneled target may or may not feel that its actually a good game depending on how hard the tunnel is.
One can be fixed by boosting the 3v1, 2 can partially be fixed by the 3v1 boost making the tunnel less frequent, 3 is kind of in the same boat, but also a tricky thing to deal with, but we shouldn't throw out a possible solution because it doesn't solve everything.
The only thing you can do is trying to push this playstyle away by giving the other playstyle which survivors prefer (going for 12 hook) a better perspective.I don't think people would actually like 12 hooks if they became the norm. Part of the excitement of the game is being on death hook. It's just dumb when it gets there by the killer hyper fixating on the first target they find.
Not a single one in this forum can convince me that in the current state of the game the best Survivor team vs the best killer would be possible to go for a 12 hook game by playing "Friendly"Who is trying to?
There is a huge difference between 12 hooking and tunneling out on 3 hooks.
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They already did nerf the speed of generators aka the most boring part of survivor gameplay. Killer getting basekit buffs for spreading out hooks, sure, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
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Give killers buffs for spreading hooks. Make it more rewarding than tunneling. As for survivors stuff literally give survivors off hook elusive for 45 seconds or until fully healed
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the one easy solution is just slow down the gens for 30 seconds when the killer gets a unique hook
50% slower for 30 seconds so pretty much everyone gets the scavenger effect when the killer gets a unique hook and doesn’t tunnel
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they didn't though adding more time doesn't mean anything when survivors can invalidate it with gen progression perks and toolboxes not to mention gen regression is still trash
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So you won't mind if devs bring back gen completion time to 80 secs in the next update?
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so if you're going to revert pain res like that to make it worth it you have bump up the numbers like adding 5% or more per unique hook
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i wouldn't mind if gen regression had heavy buffs and they removed the 8 kick limit they could drop it to 70 at that point
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One idea I've seen dont remember the exact buffs. After all 5 gens are repaired the killer gets since buffs according to the number of survivors still alive and on death hook.
- 1 - killer gets %5 haste
- 2 - survivors are exhausted for 30 seconds
- 3 - survivors aura are visible for 30 seconds
- 4 - all lockers are blocked for survivors and any survivors put in the dying state are immediately killed by the Entity.
If 2 survivors are already dead before end game the killer gets no buffs. End game perks would have to have number changes or be reworked.
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honestly, the First Part of your Idea sounds pretty okay.
But Pain Res actually gives 20% Regression.So maybe instead you Start with 15% regression +5% for each unique Hook.
Meaning the First Hook will still be 20% since it will be a unique Hook.
From then on, you can get 25%, 30% and 35%. Which aren't crazy Numbers. Especially for not tunneling.
If you instead go for a Survivor again, you lose your Benefits. Which will still give you 15% so the Perk isn't Dead. But it's still okay'ish.
But honestly, the Game shouldn't be balanced around a Perk. There should be Base Game Mechanics for that. Not Perks.0
