Well killer whining has done it again.
Comments
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are you saying people cant win without looping?
i would also question how "skilful" it is looping a basic, slow m1 killer with little to no anti loop.
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More that there's an expectation to engage with chases.
My overall point, though, is that comparing tunnelling and looping doesn't work, because one is a basekit shortcut one side gets to take and the other is a central pillar of the game for both sides.
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its all basekit, tunneling, spreading hooks, looping, stealth. all playstyles that people can opt to use.
killer cant kill fast enough before gens pop? answer is tunnel.
survivor cant loop at all? answer is stealth.
they are not shortcuts, they are methods of playing.
the expectations do play a big part in why people seem to get stressed and cant win though. maybe people shouldnt play to whats expected of them and play to whatever works for them.
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One of those things is a shortcut, specifically because of how the game's designed.
If you target a survivor who has just been unhooked - which is the definition of tunnelling I use - then you get to benefit from a much easier chase for zero requirements or tradeoff.
The survivor starts the chase injured, already a benefit, and they also do not get to make any distance on you while you approach because they're stuck in the animation of being unhooked. It's a chase that starts tilted heavily towards the killer, requiring much more from the survivor to counter than it takes for the killer to perform.
This, already, is an imbalance. This alone would be enough to warrant addressing tunnelling. However, there's an extra step.Because those chases are likely to be much shorter due to the above, a killer can use this shortcut to force someone out of the game early, gaining the massive advantage of a dead survivor. If that happens early enough, they have won outright, the best players in the world would struggle to win a 1v3 at five gens against an even just competent killer.
If it happens later in the match though, it's still a huge advantage that the killer got for basically nothing. They just got easy chases into a massive advantage, that's it.The only thing holding this back in real matches is a combination of genuinely pretty strong perks that help counter this tactic if they are brought into that match, and the fact that there are definitely killers out there who fumble even the easy chase that comes with tunnelling.
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its a race, gen speed v kills. fastest side wins. survivors can do gens in 5 min, killer is supposed to get 12 hooks in that timeframe. i can see why people take shortcuts when the opponent is faster.
if survivors have not done 1 gen by the time it takes to tunnel out 1 player then thats a misplay by the survivors.
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Survivors can do gens in five minutes only in scenarios where they are also leveraging seriously unbalanced tools.
That's also a balance issue. Both need addressing.
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Yes there's is a counter to Tunneling. If you Learn how to Loop properly then Tunneling will be much harder for the killer. I always have trouble with good looping survivors. Its the best counter. So Tunneling is just a skill issue with you guys refusing to learn how to loop and engage with it.
Once you master looping Killers. Then Tunneling isn't a issue because they only tunnel the less skilled Survivors when they tunnel. Thats why it seems strong
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Maybe in a perfectly vacuum scenario you would be able to get away from the killer after you’re unhooked while the killer is right on top of you. But, 99% of the time you’re out in the open and there’s no viable pallet to run to in time; not to mention you’re already injured.
Tunneling is used so much because it’s an overpowered tactic, and players will always do whatever it takes to be overpowered. It’s a design flaw.
It’s exactly like PVP in Dark Souls 1. Everyone sees it as a complete joke. Backstabbing and parrying are amusingly broken, overpowered tactics. So, obviously that’s all players are going to do. These problems were never fixed.DBD has become this.
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survivors can do gens in 5min without tools. 4 survivors, the killer can only chase 1 at a time unless the survivors take the chase to a gen being worked on. 3 that are not in chase working on gens, all 3 can pop in under 2min, thats basekit speed.
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In order for that to be true, the killer's first chase would have to last noticeably over 90 seconds, to account for the travel time needed to have the other three split up on separate gens.
If the killer's first chase isn't that long, they get a hook, and gen repair slows down noticeably afterwards.
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-1
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Correct. It doesn't take much for the game to really fall apart for the survivors, and unless you come prepared, and run a build that is specifically meant for genrushing, coming back from early mistakes is really hard.
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smart survivors make use of the hook timer, assuming 1 is hooked and 1 in chase thats still 2 survivors working gens….there are only 5 that need to be done. when 2 gens are done, unhook and back to a gen. im sure some people have no idea just how long it can take a slow killer like myers or pig to get around the map.
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The counter-play is get to a tile within 15 seconds and outplay the killer at that tile, run to the next tile and repeat until the killer has to drop chase or commit to you so hard that they lose the match. With games potentially ending in under 4 minutes, I'm not sure what time you think there is to facilitate strict anti-tunnel/slug rules.
This is one of those "believe it or not" "Like it or not" things:
Until spreading hooks can actually compete with potential gen completion speed, strict anti-tunnel/slug rules cannot be facilitated without breaking the game for most of the killer roster.
Just because a few of the killers can reliably play for hooks and win does not mean that ALL of them can.
You can't expect the devs to make adjustments based solely on how you feel, having them totally ignore the big picture and forsake what's actually fair in an asymmetrical sense (especially when not every killer has the same level of power).
Anti-tunnel and anti-slug rules CAN be introduced, but not without making hook spreading the absolute best way for all killers to compete with gen completion speed.
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Until spreading hooks can actually compete with potential gen completion speed, strict anti-tunnel/slug rules cannot be facilitated without breaking the game for most of the killer roster.
Play worse, demand more buffs, got it!
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Something tells me that it will be equivalent to the Skull Merchant rework.
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I don't blame you if you have 0-50 hours on the game.
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which one?
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Anti-FACE camp. Emphasis on face camp.
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Except if a tunneling killer sees the survivor is good, they drop chase and find another. Even if 3 survivors are god loopers and 1 is meh, if the meh is tunneled out, the 3 god loopers lose.
With your own scenario, its still a loss for survivors and the killer didn't even have to bring perks or use powers. They will simply win.
If you're telling survivors to git good at looping, maybe get good at killer? If you have to tunnel to get any sort of positive results, then continue. Even dbd needs bottom of the barrel skilled players.
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lol still at that, Brimp? Keep riding that bull! Yee-haw!
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You are not owed the killer's attention.
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Zero sense. Explain?
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Survivors able to loop a killer for 5 gens would beg to differ. But sure, there is no counterplay.
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The one we keep hearing about yet it never comes.
I wouldn't be surprised if they say: yes yes we will make another version of it ect. ect. and then forget about it a year later.
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You say that but I'm right. He clearly wasn't face camping. Was it an unfortunate hook? Yeah but how did 2 survivors go into basement in the first place against clown. People don't like the cold hard truth that the devs called it anti face camp.
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-5
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Ive had a 3 man team Kick my butt when one person died.
Losing one person doesn't mean you lost right off the bat. The killer does that because 1v3 is easier than a 1v4 but if you have 3 god survivors on ur team that are good at looping it will take long to do Gens but it doesn't mean the games over.
The killer will only go after the weakest Survivors to tunnel. So if you notice that ur friend is being tunneled, even in solo q go and get the killer off them. But dont make it obvious. Just also remember the more he chases someone the more time you are on Gens.
Try having 2 loopers, 1 Gen rusher and 1 protector.
This was something I seen in my games that some survivors do in swfs
Defending on ur Swf or even Being Solo Q pick ur roles for ur match.
For my survivor games im a Gen Rusher and Healer. My goal is to make sure the Gens get done and my teammates are healed.
So if ur having issues with something with a Killer maybe become the thing that solves it.
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Then you are an anomaly. This isn't normal, or even close to 'on the rare occasion.' 3v1 at 4-5 gens is 99% lost for the survivors. Please tell me you want to argue this.
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Never said it was rare. But I did say it has counter play and maybe you need to become the counterplay. If someone is being tunneled go save them. Have 2 people on Gens or 1 even and show that tunneling doesn't work every game.
This is coming from a Killer main
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Oh, no. You got it right lol. I just feel you fail to see the forest for the trees. You're always just 'stuck' on that little face word.
All good! Just seems with all the things wrong in the game, you're just stuck on one of the silliest. Dbd does need more silly though. People take it FAR too serious lol.
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We're all well aware this is coming from a killer main, don't worry. :)
And I will clarify: I was saying its rare. Like, EXTREMELY rare. Your example is like 1 in a million. Also, as per the usual with this ridiculous forum community, Ill need you to post that *recorded* game that everyone expects.
Bonus: I could come to an agreement with this actually, if we assert this is against a good swf team. 3v1 might work against a good swf. If its anything otherwise, the strat becomes too stronk and shakes the game up in a negative way.
But this is only if things got fixed. Current state of the game? Nothing we're talking about could put the game in a great spot if we magically got what we wanted here. We're basically arguing because its fun here. :)
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The survivor starts the chase injured, already a benefit, and they also do not get to make any distance on you while you approach because they're stuck in the animation of being unhooked. It's a chase that starts tilted heavily towards the killer, requiring
muchmore from the survivor to counter than it takes for the killer to perform. Because those chases are likely to be much shorter due to the above, a killer can use this shortcut to force someone out of the game early, gaining the massive advantage of a dead survivor. If that happens early enough, they have won outright, the best players in the world would struggle to win a 1v3 at five gens against an even just competent killer.Beautifully written. Thank you.
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🤣🤣🤣its why I love this community.
There's no promises on me getting my own gameplay footage but I can still get something to prove it. I can add some sketches to show more than just videos.
It may take a bit so I can make it as solid as possible to get the point across
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Its all good. I dont personally need evidence like this, but a lot of people here like to require it simply to discount someone. I find it ridiculous and bad faith.
I do believe you made it out in that 3v1. I'm just saying if we viewed 1000 games of this situation, 995+ would be won by the killer.
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I have no clue why survivors always complain about camp and tunnel like they are victims. Killers are true victims. M1 killer has no way of winning with recent ridiculous pallet density. Tunnel is just a strong strategy so they will do anyway. Playing killer is like volunteer or charity to make survivor feel fun…
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If you’re having problems with the recent pallet density as a M1 killer, you’re just bad.
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If it was counterable, why would so many killers "need" tunneling at "high MMR"? Remember that was the argument? "We can't win without it?"
If it's SOOOO hard to counter that not even the best survivors can do it, then I think your argument falls apart, right?
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killers need to tunnel to win in a lot of cases but when survivors do counter it there really isnt much the killer can do.
Its not that hard to counter tunneling, i play solo survivor, so much i would say im survivor main these days. im pretty average, im not a pro player but im countering tunneling just fine by using stealth and losing line of sight and loops. its not a case of 1 thing counters it, its playstyle as a whole.
The reason why so many people ranging from new players to even players with thousands of hours just cant counter it is because they have adopted the one playstyle and thats all they know. The play style of getting in the killers face, the only way of getting fun is chase and loops to showcase "skill". its pretty evident even just by being on these forums that very few players actually play stealth and many believing stealth cant be done.
This is why people struggle with countering tunneling, and thats why tunneling is so effective. if theres one thing the killer can rely on it survivors making the simplest mistakes such as unhooking too soon, not taking the chase away from the gens, running around like a headless chicken with no regard of scratch marks.
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- The dangerous drift is not the buff/nerf from one side or the other, but the fact that "whoever shouts the loudest" on social media is listened to by Devs.
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I have to agree and once again, ditched the assistance with all of the slugging and leaving survivors to bleed out. Once again DBD fumbles on 1v4.
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I personally can't ever remember losinga killer match that became a 3v1 at 5gens.
There's a couple ways you can end up with that situation. One is that the killer applied pressure super well or snowballed. In that case, when the one person dies, the others will also have hooks. This is basically unwinnable. The survivors might get 1 or 2 gens done but that's it. These matches are often 4ks at 4 or 5 gens for me, regardless of role.
Another scenario is a hard tunnel at 5gens, and great SWFs are unlikely to let this happen. Some SWFs do have weak link gen jockeys. I've been in such matches. They protect the hell out of those weak links. You'll have the whole team body blocking, flashlighting, and covering that person's trail if you even so much as try to hook them once. Otherwise, everyone is going to be good at looping, and gens are gonna pop while one of them keeps you busy. Even if it's a 3man that doesn't care if their unfortunate random is getting tunneled, they'll be doing gens in the interim.
3v1s at 5gens just aren't something I see happening to good teams. They're something I see happening in soloq.
Post edited by cogsturning on2 -
Face word or not its still objective fact that wasn't face camping which the system was designed to prevent. If people want to complain that the "anti-camp" which its not anti-camp its specifically anti-face camp I will correct it. I stayed on topic with the post meanwhile you come in here with "you're still on that" when that doesn't mean anything.
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Lol stealth with all the busted aura perks killers have these days. I can tell you never play survivor.
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Just because you are lousy with a killer don't claim they are weak. There are many who are undefeated with trapper or p100 ghostface and 4k most matches.
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He might as well have been facecamping them both. Or rather he practically face camped them, just outside the 16 meter radius.
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Stealth is still possible but sometimes is easy to get which aura read perks killer has like if you hiding around gen and he kicks it and comes right for you then its clear he has no where to hide etc. and another thing is many killers just use the same aura perks like nowhere to hide,barbecue etc. because others arent that usefull like some aura locker perk (there are two dreadge one and alien one) is used with killers that use lockers or are around them a lot like huntress,trickster and if you see killer open a locker multiple times for no valid reason high chance is he has some aura perk conected to lockers, just be still in the game and pay attention ynd you would wonder what all things you missed before you did this. Stealth has still some use and it works its just not guarantee anymore as it was back then.
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Are anticamp changes problem? If I remember corretly the distance is same and the anticamp bar multiplier is faster when killer is longer in radius so it should work when someone is standing in its radius but ofcourse a killer that is 30 meters away and can make it before survivor can get to hooked one and save will always srews with anticamp no matter what it is and personaly I dont see camper that much and if they proxycamp or wait nearby then they are mostly tunnelers waiting for their choosen survivor to get saved so they can down and hook him again, the pure campers are long time gone mostly.
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Yeah, it's 16 meters. Should be reverted to 20 meters for range killers.
Post edited by AVoiceOfReason on0 -
It was tested at 20 meters on the PTB for this patch, but it got heavily criticized for being "unfair" on indoor maps.
Thus it got reverted back to 16 meters, but with the other changes added, aside from the range.1
