Demogorgon buffs and addon change suggestions
I main Demo. I left my p100 ID card in my wallet back home. There's a few notable killers that need buffs more than Demogorgon, but you're doing a second Stranger Things chapter, and if you want Demogorgon to be there with Henry Creel, then he needs a bit of modernization.
THIS IS NOT A REWORK. Demogorgon is fine conceptually, all of these suggestions are ONLY things that could be feasibly coded in an addon pass that don't COMPLETELY alter how he plays. Mostly. There are very sparse nerfs involved in new addon effects, because Demogorgon REALLY doesn't need nerfs. These suggestions are meant to be actually possible to implement in dedicated time.
BASEKIT CHANGES: These changes aim to reduce the drag of playing Demogorgon.
- Traversing the upside down does not need a cooldown. Demogorgon requires two portals worth of setup to even teleport once. It is arguably the worst teleport in the game, and restricting it's usage whatsoever is pointless. I wouldn't mind making the cooldown 5 seconds if you're unwilling to budge, but 10 seconds is ridiculous.
- The undetectable after teleporting should be 5 seconds, not 10. Demogorgon's map wide screech as he teleports along with his earth shaking footfalls means that 5 seconds isn't enough to have as much of an impact in the game as it could. I don't think that the global auditory telegraph should be removed. (I do think it should instead be the sound of thunder in the upside down and maybe give a flash of red lightning for deaf survivors but that's a lot of work.) The telegraph is necessary for how much freedom Demogorgon has in placing his portals, but by comparison, Springtrap has a 20 second undetectable from using his security doors that require no setup, has no telegraph, with survivors that almost never interact with the security door for fear of being jumpscared and grabbed. Demogorgon deserves a little more stealth.
- The camera shouldn't be locked in place after colliding with a wall while shredding. Functionally, Demogorgon's shred is fine. It is probably the second worst dash attack in the game, with Pigs being the worst, but it still stands out as fast and fun. Nothing feels as good to me as landing a well placed shred in this game. On the flipside, nothing makes me puff out an exhausted breath quite hitting a piece of map geometry and watching as the interdimensional bulletproof apex predator mewls in the corner pathetically. If I could at least keep my lack of eyes on the survivor or avoid the occasional flashlight blind I'd be totally fine with the whiff punishment. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that Hillbilly isn't locked in place after smacking into a wall while Demogorgon is.
ADDON CHANGES: These changes are VASTLY more numerous, but they focus on two key issues.
- Too many redundant or useless addons.
- Too many portal addons and not enough shred addons.
In the data driven approach to balancing, it would appear that addons like Barbs Glasses and Black Heart were overpowered because they were constantly used. They were not. The problem was that killers liked playing addons that had a tangible feel to them, a real time reduction that was observable though the Shred attack. Also, using the shred is just more fun than using the portals. Portals are a tool. Shredding is a weapon, a radical one at that.
There are 16.5 portal addons and 3.5 shred addons. That's almost 5 times as many addons for a half of Demogorgon's power that he isn't as motivated to use because it's hard to set up and isn't as good for stealth as it could be.
Instead of rethinking how none of the portal addons below Visceral grade are worth running, the 2 most popular shred addons got nerfed TWICE. That doesn't make his portal addons any more viable, it just butchers Demogorgon's already dwindling pick rate. Not a good look to Netflix.
COMMON (Brown) ADDONS:
Rat Liver
- Increases movement speed while charging Of The Abyss by 3.5%. (Unchanged.) This one feels fine. Demogorgon is already really good at zoning, and I don’t wanna touch that by nerfing or buffing it.
Rat Tail
- Increases speed of opening a Portal by 50%. (Unchanged.) Pairs well as is with the new effect.
- Decreases the time required to enter a Portal by 30%. (New effect.) These together will reduce clumsy teleports. It’ll only shave you off a teeny bit of travel time, but at it’ll mainly cut down on those Sorry The Portal You Are In The Middle Of Trying To Teleport To Has Just Been Sealed™ moments.
Rotten Pumpkin
- While traversing the Upside down, the Portal you enter is destroyed. Gain an additional 200 Bloodpoints for the traversal. (Unchanged.) You could totally add the +1 portal effect to this instead, but meme addons are MEANT to be useless, and this already has a niche use case for it. You’ll see why I’m bringing this up in the next one.
Rat Tail
- Decreases Shred miss cooldown by 15%. (Was 11%.) I can live without this buff tbh.
- Decreases recovery time after hitting an object with a Shred Attack by 15%. (New effect.) I hate it when I shred off of the top floors of Ormond or Haddonfield and slam into an invisible wall. Can something be done about that? Those REALLY suck the fun out of the game.
Increases the total number of available Portals by 1.(Removed.) Addons shouldn't effect both shredding and portals in completely unrelated ways.- (Changed rarity from common to uncommon.) Swap this addons place with Black Heart. It makes the pill of buffing everything back to their former glory and easier pill to swallow.
UNCOMMON (Green) ADDONS:
Black heart
- Decreases Shred hit cooldown by 20%. (Was 10%.) This only got nerfed because of pick rate data. It should have actual competition now, because the reason it's STILL used isn't that it's strong, there are NO BETTER OPTIONS.
- (Changed rarity from uncommon to common.) Making the rarity higher makes this a little more expensive, and hopefully makes it more reasonable to buff it again.
Rotten Green Tripe
- Increases Upside Down movement speed by 30%. (Was 15%.) Not only is 15% extra speed on the second worst teleport in the game not worth it, losing 2 portals is seriously lame. Making Deer Lung basically a rarity lower and shaving off that brainless downside is nice, but getting rid of obnoxious addon effect redundancy is even better. More room for shred addons. 20% would probably more fitting this rarity, but if you want to compete with chase time reduction addons, you need something shiny like this.
Sticky Lining
- Increases the distance from Portals at which Survivors can be detected by Off The Abyss by 2.5 meters. (Unchanged.) On it's own, this is pointless. It's so inoffensive that I didn't even bother removing it when I added something new to this addon. Having +1 portal would probably be a brown addon alone if Rotten Pumpkin didn't exist. That being said, it does actually go together with the below effect neatly.
- Increases the total number of available Portals by 1. (New effect.) This just seemed like the best addon to staple some of Mews Guts to. Nobody uses this or Thorny Vines after Lifeguard Whistle got reworked. Having an extra portal gives the killer instinct more real estate to work with, and together these effects are worth the rarity.
Viscous Webbing
Increases time required for survivors to seal Portals by 10%.(Removed.) Redundant and barely noticeable. Nobody uses this addon, much less uses it and says "Wow I won that game because I brought Viscous Webbing."- When a portal is placed, it is immediately activated. Portals become deactivated after 45 seconds of not being traversed to or from. (New effect.) An interesting spin on how to play with portals. You lose out on some detection, but get a sustained web that demands more immediate attention from survivors.
Brass Case Lighter
Portals Blind for 60 seconds, I aint writin’ allat.(Removed.) There are better ways to apply the most niche status effect in the game as Demogorgon. Equip Third Seal, place a portal down at the totem, profit from permanent Blindness.- Increases the total number of available Portals by 3. (New effect.) Ok bear with me here a second. This isn't absolutely busted when you take into account the sheer setup involved, as well as the downside I've added with this, because it absolutely needs a downside.
- Decreases time required for Survivors to seal Portals by 30%. (New effect.) Essentially, Demo could have up to 10 portals made of Styrofoam. You can have portals both on each generator and plenty of other spots, but they'll get sealed quickly if they aren't monitored properly. They'll probably get sealed REGARDLESS. There is also an argument to make on having every portal demo has active decreasing the sealing time for survivor by 3% instead, but that's kinda complicated.
- (Changed rarity from rare to common.) This addons rarity is too high and the effect application isn't common enough for this addon to make any sense as is. Look at Smiley Face pin on Legion for comparison.
RARE (Blue) ADDONS:
Barbs Glasses
- Decreases Shred pallet break cooldown by 20%. (Was 10%.) Again, this ONLY got nerfed because it was one of the ONLY usable addons below Iridescent. If kill rates with this were high, it was only because good Demogorgon's knew to use them over any other addon.
- (Changed rarity from uncommon to rare.) Now it's swapped places with Brass Case Lighter to make it's genuine strength more reasonable. If Myers is allowed to have hair brush, then Demogorgon ought be have this when it's only ever even faster to shred pallets if you're doing it from a distance. You can even keep him locked in place for the break animation like Blight even though Nemesis and Myers walk right on through the remains.
Deer Lung
Increases Upside Down movement speed by 30%.(Removed.) Redundant.Decreases the number of available Portals by 2.(Removed.) That speeds not even slightly worth losing two portals over.- Increases the movement speed of Shred Attacks by 10%. (New effect.) Finally, an actual new shred effect. This takes the idea of speed, but applies it to the shred instead of the portals. I'm really holding back with this speed too. With what the associated downside is, maybe this could be bumped up to 20% to be a bit more noticeable.
- Decreases the maximum distance of Shred Attacks by 1.5 meters. (New effect.) A fair trade off for what's already one of the fastest attacks in the game. This addons focus will be more snappy shreds for out in the open hits or tight loops.
Eleven's Soda Can
- Shows yellow auras for generators being repaired while traversing the Upside Down. (Unchanged.) This is honestly solid and unique for what it is, a bargain bin Leprose Lichen. Praise be to Demogorgon's hands-down BEST addon, it’s ######### hard to see auras of survivors on gens. The gens aura seems to outright layer OVER the survivors, it’s obnoxious. I don’t think custom survivor aura colors would even fix that. Anyways, Soda Can is great as is.”
Thorny Vines
Increases time required for Survivors to seal Portals by 8%.(Removed.) Redundant and useless.Increases distance from Portals at which Survivors can be detected by Of The Abyss by 1 meter.(Removed.) Redundant and useless.- Survivors injured by any means while sealing a Portal are Broken for 60 seconds. (New effect.) I have personally got a lot of hits on survivors that were oblivious to my approach as they tried to get rid of my portals. Basic attack or shred would both apply it, which gives some freedom. This appeals to a hit and run playstyle that would benefit greatly from an undetectable duration buff.
Violet Waxcap
Increases the duration of the Undetectable effect gained when emerging from a Portal by 1 measly, stinkin’, pointless second.(Removed.) Of all of Demo’s redundant and useless addons, this is his worst. There is NO reason to run this at all. If memory serves, this is the BUFFED version. That is insanely bad conceptually, even worse practically.- Increases the overall distance of Shred Attacks by 2 meters. (New effect.) Sniper Demo. This boost is applied to both the minimum and maximum distances that demo can go. I'm a little surprised this was never an addon. Pyramid head might be hard to play, but his new distance addons are wildly fun.
- Decreases the speed to charge Of The Abyss to maximum distance increased by 5%. (New effect.) This might read funny, but it's a necessary downside. It essentially takes more charging time to go the furthest that the shred can go.
VERY RARE (Purple) ADDONS:
Lifeguard Whistle
Increases the available number of Portals by 2.(Removed.) A necessary evil. Look, maybe you could give demo ONE more basekit portal. I don't think this addon in this state is a problem, merely boring.- Reveals a Survivor’s aura for 5 seconds when they begin sealing a Portal. (New Effect.) This brings the spirit of the old Lifeguard Whistle without it being blatantly overpowered. Yes, Lifeguard Whistle WAS overpowered when it combo'd with Devour Hope. This will give information one wouldn’t otherwise have at a glance, while not encroaching on the effectiveness of channeling the abyss normally.
Unknown Egg
Decreases the cooldown after traversing the Upside Down by 2.5 seconds.(Removed.) Having a cooldown made sense 4 years ago, but this ain’t the Ruin Undying Corrupt Tinkerer meta anymore. It's not even the 3genkick meta anymore. AND there's kick limits on gens now. Demogorgon should be able to move freely.- Increases the speed to charge Of The Abyss to maximum distance by 15%. (New effect.) Hitting fully charged shred attacks at a distance isn't easy. Demogorgon warns survivors that he's prepping it and the dash is restricted by walls and obstacles. This would ease that up a bit.
Upside Down Resin
- Increases time required for Survivors to seal Portals by 20%. (Unchanged.) No longer redundant, no longer a problem. Honestly solid as it is now. It could be buffed. Could be 30% slower instead, or injured survivors that miss skill checks are deep wounded, but this fine as is.
Vermillion Webcap
Increases the duration of the Undetectable effect gained when emerging from a Portal by 3 barely registered seconds.(Removed.) These mushrooms are so bad. I gave suggestions to tweak Red Moss to have even longer undetectable, so nobody loses out on not being able to pair this and that together.- Shred Attack hits inflict Mangled and Hemorrhage for 70 seconds. (New Effect.) Basic healing slowdown. A more reliable and less opportunistic version of my new Thorny vines. Nothing special here. It really surprises me that this was never a thing. Mangling people is Demogorgon's thing, most people that come into contact with him end up looking like spaghetti sauce.
VISCERAL (Red) ADDONS:
Leprose Lichen
- Reveals the auras of all Survivors while traversing the Upside Down. (Unchanged.) The only thing holding this back is the inability to look around while teleporting the way Dredge can. But I know that's intentional.
- After emerging from a Portal, the auras of all Survivors within 16 meters of an active Portal are revealed for 3 seconds. (Unchanged.) This is easily Demo’s best addon. It’s fine. Both his red addons are fine. I’m only adjusting Red Moss to make up for the loss of Vermillion Webcap's combo potential, and that’s not getting a flat buff either.
Red Moss
- Increases the time required to emerge from a Portal by 25%. (Was 15%.) This slows down the exit from a portal, but that just acts as a delay after the incredibly annoying teleport broadcast sound to surprise survivors. I'd be lying if I said I ever actually noticed this downside.
- Increases the duration of the Undetectable effect gained when emerging from a Portal by 10 seconds. (Was 8 seconds.) I was going to suggest this be 15, but then rational thought won out and I gave half to the basekit.
- Emerging from Portals becomes Silent. (Unchanged.) I used to think this meant that the screeching sound demo makes as he rides the Upside Down Express was silenced. That would probably be worth a red addon alone, but I'd give it 5 minutes before it get's nerfed.
With this, there would be 9 Shred addons (which would at the very least be usable), and 11 Portal addons (that are unique and aren't completely useless). A much more healthy balance.
Thank you for reading. I hope Demogorgon gets some love in Stranger Things Chapter 2. I can't help that point out that even if Demogorgon got ALL of these buffs, he'd never be as strong as Nurse or Blight.
Comments
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While I do like these ideas, Deer lung seems useless, decreasing the range of shred by 1.5m for a measly 10% speed increase during shred attack is... honestly bad, unless it was like 15-25% speed increase then that'll be a decent trade off but it doesn't see worth it tbh, Viscous Webbing is very interesting, but if it was 30s I think that'll be better (that's just my personal opinion, and it's a good idea ad well bc it prevents Survivors from breaking portals when not in use so it saves time but it also has a trade off by not allowing killer instinct to go off since it'll be deactivated again until reactivating the portal again via tp)
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Nice add-on rework.
It seems nice.
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I wouldnt mind any other killer other than a-s tier would indirectly be buffed like from spawn rules, pallet density, map offering changes.
On the other hand i feel like if it doesnt catapolt them to a high-tier contender or extremely easy to play,
People wont bother, i hope im wrong.
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You're absolutely right about Deer Lung, and the same point probably applies for Violet Waxcap. Considering how Demogorgons shred is already really damn fast, I had a hard time figuring out what would be considered fast enough or too fast. So those numbers could probably be adjusted, but at least the concept still stands.
Fair point about Viscous Webbing, too. 45 seconds is too long in hindsight.
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Typo in that
The undetectable after teleporting should be 5 seconds, not 10.
Was meant to be
The undetectable after teleporting should be 10 seconds, not 5.
Everything seems pretty darned good. I really like Violet Waxcap. Demo's weakness is obviously at circular loops, but this would be a nice tool to swing at hold Ws.
I would also appreciate giving an input buffer to Demo's shred. The number of times I have cancelled an important shred hit by getting too excited is painful.
Solid updates man!
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