http://dbd.game/killswitch
Would be legion too strong if
- We make iri button basekit, it's the most used add on and massively increase the strenght and counterplay planning = if legion vaults pallet in frenzy it breaks and on top of that legion would be granted 10 % haste for 15s as well (Unbound basekit)
- Whenever legion enters frenzy, his movespeed is 7m/s and is granted stun immunity for the duration of the frenzy, if you drop pallet on legion in frenzy, the pallet will be automatically broken and Legion's FF speed will decrease from 7m/s to 5m/s for 3s.
- Performing damage action replenish full power gauge.
- Blinding legion no longer ends frenzy
It's just a suggestion, not a fully thinked topic.
Comments
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What would be the counterplay?
This is like asking - would it be broken if survivors got 5m/s base movement speed?
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lol
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The counterplay would be exact same, spread out and don't let him 5th hit, bodyblock etc.
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I did not notice they created new maps that are 10x as large as mother's dwelling. This suggestion basically guarantees you are going down. And not like you are eventually going down. It's like - nope to counterplay.
This would be balanced if gens took like 40s to complete base speed. But what's the game about then?
Also to address your point directly - even your counterplay would just not work. With that speed and those abilities, Legion would hit you in power, sprint in front of you and turn off the power for free 2nd hit (so like wraith, but better because of fast window jumping and pallet destroying). You can't make it to anything else in the meantime provided it's not a strong window. If it's pallet, then he can just destroy it with his new power.
This would be balance nightmare overall. Like technically this could work, but legion's power would need to have drastically reduced duration (say 5s) and drastically prolonged turn-off power cooldown (like 3+s). That would make him incredibly clunky and unsatisfying to play.
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But there's 1 thing I agree with. Legion looks bad right now. He actually could use buff. My idea would be to give him something skill based, because the champion is already very linear and easy to play (hence you can't make him competitive in high elo, because low elo would get outright destroyed).
I can't think of something good. But the most sloppy way to fix him IMO would be to give him portals like something demogorgon or xenomorph has (but not like Freddy - it should be "our of combat movement") to help him get around in map.
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Okey, I just opened an idea to further discussion, chill. May some of those suggestions seem good to you, despite adjustments or not?
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maybe point 3 sounds ok. Still, I would rather have something that would help legion being viable in high mmr and this is not it
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We are in 2025 and majority of players barely can dodge iri button.
You can make him stronger, or weaker - doesn’t matter. People hating him on his weakest state possible already-1 -
hes in a wierd situation because, he can be really frustrating with the right loadout with close to no counterplay.
the buffs he got, i think, he can have some numbers be tweaked and be fine, but basekit addons is a bit of an iffy.
because it feels so bizare to like ask for example, survivors getting basekit adrenaline. because they survived all game.0 -
I think the addon is fine as it is because making it basekit would reduce ways to deal with legion which wouldn't be good.
I would even say legion would be fine if the power level if the strongest things in the game weren't as high as they were.
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7m/s for 11s is 77m before hits, kicking walls or kicking gens refreshes that duration. how do you simultaneously spread out further than most maps spread gens out in and work key gens and play for bodyblocks on survivors a brisk 19 seconds of running away?
This changelist individually would make legion a monster, but together would easily drop them at the pinnacle of eruption stall, as they can keep the entire lobby injured whilst they run between a 4/5 gen and kick them to keep eruption up and wait on a mistake they can capitalize on to win the game with.
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What is the dodge for Iri button for Legion? He uses his power, vaults over the pallet, breaks it - sometimes they'll cancel power to zone you or hit you over the pallet, so what dodge would you have other than spinning the Legion (skilled players can deal with FOV tech or spinning) or doing micromovements.
Even then, a counter to Legion vaulting is by vaulting back over the pallet, similar to Wesker or Vecna while in flight. The addition to Iridescent Button would make Dissolution unnecessary and practically basekit for Legion, if you want to have pallets be destroyed use the add-on or Dissolution. Legion is fine with chase, especially a good Legion who understands they can cancel the power and down a person and not constantly tagging people consistently.
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… Why even give him pallet during his power?
He will hit you anyways. Good Legion use iri button for fast trade of resources. Simply don’t give it. I noticed that many survivors giving Legion free pallets trying to stun him during his power (that usually just leads to +1 stack, sure)
I don't know about “good Legion”, but on my memory I had a game with Legion, iri button on Ormond. I was scared first because on first half he demolished my teammates, but when it was my turn… I simply didn't give him any pallets beside one when he was forced cancelling his power. The hardest thing is just not letting him bodyblock you. He dropped me like… 3 times and I escaped through hatch later. Other game where I lost against this killer was on Legion without this add-on, that was a Game. Simply, two times in a row my teammates gave him stacks, on third time, rat Yun Jin without zero hooks thought it’s nice idea to bring killer to the room with last gen instead of taking down. So, he skipped her and take me, but it was 3 escapes at least.
The only unfair thing on this killer is when your teammates failed so hard they gave him 3 stacks of power and not trying to bodyblock to save you. This is frustrating Insta down. Otherwise even with iri button he is pretty mindgameble killer. Some survivors just scary of the fact you stay injured whole game or can stay without resources. Treat him like a killer you shouldn't drop pallet for without specific reason. There are plenty of them, like Doctor, Artist, Trickster, Houndmaster, Ghoul…
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Yes, if you're playing in SWF and someone calls out Iridescent Button... Sure.
If you're playing Solo-Queue, you find out he has Iridescent Button by simply versing Legion when the pallet breaks.
I still do not agree that it needs to be embedded into his kit, but to imply that survivors willingly give it to them - especially if in solo-queue is not an argument. There's nothing much you can do if Legion has Iri-Button: Either greed around pallets, FOV tech spins, micromovements, or utilize windows (if Legion doesn't carry Bamboozle) - regardless, most of the time they'll Iri Button a pallet, cancel their power and hit you or walk you down and down you as it's generally not good to heal against Legion unless death hook arguably.
Iri-Button is one of Legion's strongest add-ons in the right hands with the right perks, even if most utilize slowdown Legion.
Again, the last bit is good in SWF as you can coordinate hits via comms - expecting a solo-queue person to chase down Legion to prevent the hit is not optimal and Legion can be outplayed without people following to prevent the power hit too.
An additional point, me chasing down the Legion to prevent the insta-down when I would rather focus on gens besides clustering up to prevent the little snowball hits is another side note. I'd rather get the gens done, rather than follow Legion to prevent the down too and not be clustered up like headless chickens running around with Legion.
Edit: no, you can outplay a Legion at a pallet, lol. I have done it many times where a Legion pulls up their power, I drop the pallet, and I go to vault back over and the Legion hits the pallet rendering his power useless. The same can be done at a window, again - I've done it many times. Just because you're at a pallet does not guarantee a Legion to hit you, unless... It's a horrible 50/50, the survivor misplayed around said pallet, or just like I said Iri-Button.
Also, you want to drop a pallet with Artist, I don't know where you get that you should greed a pallet with Artist when she can set up birds and pallets give you leeway to have space between the Artist (force her to set up birds) and decide if you want to stay at the tile or move to a different tile as she loses distance when she sets birds up - you don't want to be zoned out.
Same for Doctor, using a pallet against Doctor, again - gives you space and most Doctors spam their power quite inefficiently and refuse to break the pallet at times due to being stubborn. You have a point kinda with Houndmaster, as you can smack the dog with the pallet if she uses the dog to try to drag you but I disagree with the other two.
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I don’t play in sfw. I don’t trade pallets by default against Legion in power because good killer will avoid stun anyways, while him being in power without stacks being pretty harmless :₽ As much as I don’t drop against ghouls before first injury.
You can do stuff without comms. Use deduction if notice there are too many broken pallets, or simply playing by exclusion method and assume killer gonna bring best loadout possible. If you don’t hear mixed tape or he isn’t that fast (sleeping pills) there are more likely gonna be iri button. If you are the first one to encounter iri button - thats the point of strong add-on. Later you automatically change your playstyle.
He is not Twins or Singularity to ask for SFW counterplay. It’s the same mid killer, who just will burn your resources only if you give them.
Legion at a pallet, lol. I have done it many times where a Legion pulls up their power, I drop the pallet, and I go to vault back over and the Legion hits the pallet rendering his power useless.
I thought we discussed good killer player, not guy who smack hit button with obvious auto aim situation.
Also, you want to drop a pallet with Artist, I don't know where you get that you should greed a pallet with Artist
Same for Doctor, using a pallet against Doctor, again - gives you space and most Doctors spam their power quite inefficientlyI thought we discussed good players x2. You are being zoned if dropping fillers from wrong sides. If not from wrong but didn’t manage get stun, you just waste pallets. You drop only when sure she doesn’t have birds yet and this is safe tile for predrop to shift w. Only predrop for distance. Since when we dropping pallets against zoning killers within range lol, helping them with locking you.
“Many Doctors use power inefficiently”. I’m sorry, but you kinda contradicting yourself, in first post claiming about “if Legion good enough”, later describibg worst play for other killers. Good Doctor will zone you as well, and at that moment, dropped pallet not gonna help you, only if you exploit bug with frames after he used power. You supposed to use textures and garbage and connect it to actual loop because his shock slows him down.
There are true every killer (even Legion with iri) suffer from general predrop of tiles for distance. However it’s really important to realise when you playing like this as necessity, and when you helping killer later because you wasted too many resources. Your position, distance, and pathing matters more than your skill in loop, because as soon as killer learn about macro, patience and bloodlust, there are few options to do.
You can’t outplay actually good killer player in loop, because they polished mechanical play, so your only option is make them guess twice and postpone hits as much as possible, at the same time saving resources when it’s needed.0 -
You cannot deduce a killer's loadout (specifically Iri-Button) without first sacrificing the first pallet in chase. A pallet, generally speaking guarantees safety due to the distance between you and the killer. Hell, I've looped a Ghoul on a pallet tile as well.
I wouldn't even say Iri-Button is the best add-on for Legion, I said it's among the best - however, to imply that people deduce it unless you're using a perk that shows pallets is near impossible for the average person in regular solo-queue, but again it's something that you become aware of when you're having the 1v1 with the Legion and yes, this is when you adapt your playstyle once the add-on becomes apparent.
Yes, your argument was that you, as a solo-queue person should chase among Legion to prevent the fourth down via power. I'm simply saying this is a waste of time, generally speaking it's best to take the hit if you get hit with the power, and do a gen. Not just play babysitter following the Legion to prevent the first down, but again, I focus on gens - I do not partake in all of that especially early game where gens typically are the priority. SWF is usually ideal in this situation, a solo-queue person should not waste time unless they are the third hit by default, even then the last survivor should not be babysat to prevent the fourth hit - there's counterplay for the fourth survivor usually to prevent it via what I mentioned in the previous comment.
When you are looping with Artist in a tile, you can create space amongst yourself to create a mind game with the Artist. A skilled Artist player will typically set up birds and force you to leave the pallet area, more often than not they will not break the pallet and you play around via mind game with birds. The pallet is simply space between the Artist and you and creating a zone where you can freely loop around without being M1ed, I don't know why you're implying that you must greed unless you are looping in an area where the Artist can see you (no walls), otherwise I still disagree - Artist loses distance and can easily zone you otherwise with the birds or hit you, hence the free buffer zone - it's not a waste of a pallet when the killer can ignore it and zone you, it's creating mind game potential to waste the Artist's time.
How is greeding around a pallet as Doctor inefficiently zaps you with his power a bug? Lol. The point of looping around and I have seen many, many Doctors time their shocks around the pallet and again, the survivor is generally wasting the Doctor's time. Dead By Daylight is a time based game, anything that you are doing as a survivor is generally buying time for anything that your team is doing on the map (whether it's gens or healing) - predropping against a Doctor who refuses to kick the pallet, you're going around and around as Doctor keeps zapping you is buying your team time regardless. A good Doctor knows that they can easily break a pallet that they keep doing ring around the rosey on, but I have seen Doctors become stubborn trying to continually shock when they can easily just break a pallet. You break the pallet, especially on the pallet side where you can zone them - and you will have an easier time. However, again this is all due to some Doctor players who specifically keep zapping and wasting time and some Doctor players still do this.
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This game is always about decision making. Assuming stuff or not. And if u always assume iri button… actually, nothing harms you. If he doesn't have it you just allowed to drop more. But if you assume this add-on from the start it's not a big deal.
TBH I’m not talking about babysitting to prevent Legion for stacking. But that's a clear thing that against this killer you need shift w a lot and deny his power. You don’t need to chase him to deny stack, but if your team made a mistake ending up 4 together within small range and you have info about teammate who under threat, the smartest play is do altruism here. You’ll win more time rather than waste.
I think it's worthy just point that some counterplay isn’t a big deal. Many people love to find an excuse of bad play just because they are solo q. Sorry not sorry, I don't take it seriously. U either playing good in match understanding game, or not and every stuff seems hard. Sure this argument doesn't fit to players below 500 hours, but I have slightly more and expecting teammates with 1k- 3k hours understand some stuff, especially if they play surv only. Otherwise it's simply a waste of time in such game where you barely progressed. If majority of Legions you encountered using sleeping pills or iri button, why not assuming you have to play against them from the start? You will lose nothing doing this.
A skilled Artist player will typically set up birds and force you to leave the pallet area, more often than not they will not break the pallet and you play around via mind game with birds.
Lol. The point of looping around and I have seen many, many Doctors time their shocks around the pallet and again, the survivor is generally wasting the Doctor's time
About Artist… Are u sure? Good Artist do right shots through M2 and actually using their birds. They won’t let you leave zone where you can be closed, this is ridiculous waste of time. It's irrational to force leaving loop on killer with power that go through any pallet. It's as bs as people who claim M2 to M1 fake on Executioner it the best and strongest play. Are we discussing actual skill or play around people being mid? If you as survivor got hit through fast M1 against such killers… it's your mistake first of all. Or you try to waste time when already was zoned out, depends on situation.
The best way of wasting time is connect loop with other objects instead of mindlessly running around circle waiting of inevitable. I’ll prefer to make few more rounds around some garbage before dropping pallet against Doc rather than using one thing and assuming player doesn’t know timings or not using electrodes :) Your choice wasting 20 seconds around one tile or 30 with constant connecting and pushing him farther from your start point, with probability of not wasting a single resource. While staying in one loop you wasting sources, and every adequate Doctor will zone u here.
P.S. Some doctors spam power to push person to max tier of madness to distract from gen, or preventing self heal after unhook, sabo or whatever. Some add-ons specifically encourage spam of shocks. If you constantly getting dropped after few shocks, especially when someone on hook nearby, killer wasting your time and force you to drop pallets that become much more mindgamable after being dropped. Dropped pallets is much worse against him rather than untouched. Especially now where many fillers are garbage.
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Why would you assume a killer like Legion always must have Iri-Button, unless the proposed change is that Legion has Iri-Button basekit? I hardly if ever see a Legion utilize Iri-Button and typically see Thanatophobia and Dying Light synergies more than I see an Iri-Button Legion. It's not good to just "assume" a killer is running an add-on and simply opting to ignore pallet resources on the off-chance of simply verifying the Iri-Button is actually in play is not sound advice for anyone.
The correct gameplan against any Legion in high MMR is simply to separate and do gens, that is why Legion in high MMR struggles against people in high MMR (whether solo-queue or SWF). It is objectively a bad idea to group up with people and prevent Legion's down, even then let's say the fourth person is down via the power - you have two or three other survivors ideally on gens during this downtime for the first down, especially if the Legion is stacking gen regression, which they often do.
Yes, why would an Artist attempt to break a pallet allowing the survivor to reach another tile? A skilled Artist typically knows to zone down a survivor and they place multiple birds down, especially in jungle gym situations. The pallet, like I mentioned is a buffer zone. The Artist will place a bird at the downed pallet, the survivor on the other side of that pallet then has to gauge with themselves that they cannot continue to loop at the pallet without being hit with birds - they can take the window, move to another tile (again, as I mentioned Artist is slowed down during this process), or simply break line of sight as Artist suffers from line of sight breaking as she has to hit you with said crows, lol.
It's so fascinating to me when people debate on the forums and objectively think that the way they play and exhibit condescending behavior makes the user more holier than thou - do whatever you want to do with Doctor, but implying it's a bug or me pointing out killer mistakes that I see time and time again when versing specific killers and invalidating another user's experience because you have no argument otherwise for direct counterplay tied to specific killers.
It's not good to group up against any Legion, I do not care that the fourth person is going to go down via the power (it's the first hook of the game and clustering is bad for a killer like Legion as they can easily capitalize on the survivor team grouping up.)
Not all Artists players have wall hacks and can easily hit you through walls, not all Doctors have pristine zaps to prevent you from vaulting a pallet. Even in situations where a Doctor can hold you at a pallet that you round and round around we go on, they will opt to zap versus kick the pallet to zone you. Doctor is legitimately wasting time in this situation or in a longer form where the survivor can wrap around a longer obstacle to hold the Doctor there for seconds to minutes, it's all macro at the end of the day.
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I hardly if ever see a Legion utilize Iri-Button and typically see Thanatophobia and Dying Light synergies more than I see an Iri-Button Legion. I
Personal Experience and players I met when played myself. More likely it was full gen slowdown, or hex + mix tape + iri
Or pallet swap with iri and standard enduring and spirit fury. Lust one isn’t a big deal.
And why not assuming? How it’s gonna spoil your game or help killer? Moreover, you even saved some resource. Than why I should care and go from lowest to highest during my assumption. Dying Light with Thanatophobia is a weak choice when you are gonna assume u will always play on small to mid size map, and survivors won’t spread around depriving you from killer instinct. Dying Light is so weak :/ Scourge and DMS provide more value on him than two of this together. At least it was considered like this among players I’m usually facing with.Not all Artists players have wall hacks and can easily hit you through walls, not all Doctors have pristine zaps to prevent you from vaulting a pallet
So again. Your arguments fully build up around killer player being actually worse than you or not having the most efficient builds… then I’m not surprised some stuff in solo like team play against Legion in solo Q seems so hard.
My whole assumption was going how you dodge killer that understand details. How they can zone, capitalise macro and resources, using best builds possible. You don’t need wh on Artist if you are in filler or construction having only two directions to go. Your assumption literally goes from Doc player running around loop like a bot. For me it’s a huge problemacy here, that leads to a position again, that majority of players struggling against iri button because can’t even assume from the start.
As soon as you start assume the worst against opponent, as soon you’ll learn actual counterplay. Player commiting to mistakes allowing me do my own mistakes without harsh punishment isn’t my choice. I don’t like to play like this. I am myself bringing effective load outs both on killer and surv so already got used to dodge first painres without knowing about this or thinking that x killer will have y build more likely. And usually I manage to guess it
The correct gameplan against any Legion in high MMR is simply to separate and do gens, that is why Legion in high MMR struggles against people in high MMR (whether solo-queue or SWF).
You barely reading my post not realising I literally saying the same, claiming only one situation when you should go for altruism. Like woah. Is it me trying here point how it’s right to play or you sticking to only one possible scenario forgetting game can be variable and you should adapt?
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Yes, I do not see hex builds on Legion at all. If anything, what I just described is the core perk builds that I see or the odd stealth Legion (when map offerings actually meant something). I do not see Legion in my solo-queue games regardless - most I see is Blight, Kaneki, Wesker, etc. I barely if ever see Legion because Legion typically suffers for the aforementioned reasons I listed in the above, most skilled survivors know how to punish a Legion by simply not staying together or having one person healed to offset the Thana/Dying Light slowdown.
Why would I assume a killer is running a specific add-on and simply just drop one single pallet to test if such and such killer is using a specific add-on. Same thing for Pyramid Head and his breaking pallets with his power, why would I just assume, "Okay, Pyramid Head is very good with the pallet breaking add-on, so let's just hold W." - you do realize even if I came in with that logic, which is flawed by the way - the Pyramid Head still would not be able to hit me if I move out of the way of the power. Same thing for a Legion, cool - Legion vaulted over a pallet and destroyed it, I now have that knowledge to know that Legion has Iri-Button and to do the previous stuff I just mentioned that I could do to prolong the game during my own chase.
Your line of reasoning was that the survivor must play worst - you argued that an Artist is good with precision, Doctor is good with his zapping - so, yes - when I face against a killer, I'm not actively thinking to myself - I have better skill expression than such and such killer, however, if I am seeing a repeated pattern over and over again - I will simply take in that knowledge, compound upon it, and utilize it - that is what helps people in skill expression as a survivor. All of the killers all have different counterplay and direct weaknesses from one another, it's not like I'm loading into a game and do the same logic per killer to other killers, lol.
Sure, there is some similarities but all of the killers in the game all have different counterplay even with varying weaknesses between each other. Some survivors complain about Krasue, I enjoy Krasue. Some survivors complain about Nurse, I enjoy Nurse. I would not play against a Krasue similar to how I would play against a Nurse.
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Why would I assume a killer is running a specific add-on and simply just drop one single pallet to test if such and such killer is using a specific add-on
… I don’t see any point in out discussion, it’s like you talking on your own. I literally said that you don’t drop palllets at all against Legion until he cancels his power. I didn’t said “well, test him”. What are you talking about? I didn’t encourage grouping from the start, nothing. I said if you already were in group and killer got some stacks, prevent insta down of 4th player by bodyblocking. I literally myself said Dying Light is weak, why I need to hear it again?
I don’t really care that you constantly deal with S tiers because it wasn’t a point of our discussion. I also don’t encounter Legion that much.
if I am seeing a repeated pattern over and over again - I will simply take in that knowledge, compound upon it, and utilize it - that is what helps people in skill expression as a survivor
so skill expression - is average killer repeatedly doing mistakes or patterning mediocre play… wow… I thought actual skill expression is understanding actual potential of killer. Now I’m not surprised why my game on Executioner sometimes so simple, because survivors auto assuming I’m playing him as average player and not maining, while my builds and style extremely discouraging them …
Because I mained Executioner, I started to assume the best play possible on this killer every time I encounter him as surv. It made me so good against dodging them, that I can significantly waste time of typical player or run without single injury against person who are new with him. I thought it was my personal skill expression I enjoyed…
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Alright, brother/sister whatever floats your boat.
You're arguing idealistic language, I'm arguing more macro - the discussion isn't going anywhere. I'm talking on my own due to my own experience playing survivor and what I see amongst my own gameplay... That is how we formulate opinions? Lmfao.
I don't care if you view Dying Light as a weak perk, your opinion is not an objective fact over what I see in my own games of playing survivor. Why use a Hex perk on Legion? What Hex perk is good on Legion? Let's hear it, go ahead.
Also, is that not the same for the killer side? You do recognize both sides win their games over numerous mistakes on each side. You are aware that killer players are not robotic, similar to survivors. Probzzz, Ayrun, JRM, Cru5h, Hens, Otzdarva, Scott Jund, MomoSeventh, Bleak, etc - all can make variable mistakes, I have no idea why you are arguing that I should not capitalize on my opponent's own mistakes, similar to me also making mistakes that killers capitalize on as well - Good grief.
I will edit this because I can see you making this argument, I have played against Momo three times and Bleak once (even beating Bleak on Dracula - before you make any assumptions of skill this and why are you bringing up comp/content creators bogus mentality). I just genuinely am flabbergasted that you think people just genuinely do not make mistakes and I should just utilize game knowledge, lol - I need to take a break from discussing this with you, it's mind-boggling.
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Yes.
Iri button is an addon similar to Severed Hands for Artist and Rusty Shackles for Hag. Is it strong and somewhat necessary against better players? Yes. Should it be basekit? Nope.
Also, 7 m/s right away, no stuns and Frank's mixtape rammed up to 11 would all feel miserable to play against.
Blinds ending Frenzy is imo not an issue.
So, even tho Legion does struggle a lot, this is not it.
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Funny is 1. wouldn't do that much. Survivors could simply keep vaulting pallet like against Wraith.
2.,3. yea, that would be pretty broken.
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Hex ruin was generally buffed and has good synergy with mixed tape. He literally has mini ruin in his add-on and you can combine them, it is logical to use them together. Dominance, Undying, Painres and good luck average solo q dealing with such build on small or medium sized map. On big maps it’s more manageable.
You literally provided yourself arguement about easy counterplay of Dying Light. I simply don’t understand you, because specific statements in your posts simply contradicting each other. My position is simple - majority aren’t using actual full meta, because crave some variability. Thats fine. But it’s not making Dying Light on Legion a good choice. There are no macro if you playing around average play, this is just your memory and habits. And good killer player abuse such habits a lot. You aren’t gonna face them average match simply, but your actual skill potential has chance to shine in such cases when you in advance playing “clean”.
Listen. I just said it’s not that hard to counter iri button. Even in good hands. Yes, it’s a strong add-on, thats the point of strong add-ons, but it’s still a mid killer. There are no advanced mental gymnastic to counterplay him with or without this add-on. You don’t need to play in sfw to understand you can prevent stack if it’s convinient for the team, you can save sources and everything else, and playing around iri button doesn’t provide you anything. He is just extemely annoying.
Momo three times and Bleak onceWhy I need such information? Congrats, I played in solo with Ivn and against some comp players. Some pub players with 18k hours. Is it some silly competition you want to make? I can’t play against Momo because we are on different continents, kinda.
I didn’t tell you don’t have experience enough or anything. You can be better than me in terms of looping, I’m not here to claim you are completely wrong or anything. No one forbids you capitalise average killer mistake - after they committing it. Or before , ok, but there are no macro assuming mid play, you hoping on luck. Running to Legion face and vault after him thinking he wouldn’t catch proper timing isn’t the best play ever and understanding of his addons and positioning is much more important, Yes, I do it myself as well, I just don’t call such play a high level one or his counterplay. Counterplay of killers is in macro. I think you can’t deny it. Yes, we aren’t robots, but our discussion was about being able to dodge one addon on low tier. You started with some arguments, and as soon as I said such play isn’t the most effective one you got seriously offended. Play however you want, idc. Just there are no point claiming something hard to dodge when your average example of counterplay is only about abuse of rookie mistake. Because it will flip flop to killer capitalising your own.
I don’t see point in dropping pallets against Legion in power anyways, if it’s not a play for stun that risky. No point in wasting any resources when you are healthy especially, you’ll get a hit anyways. My counterplay was simply not letting him bodyblock prompts and always waiting for his power cancel. He can’t do anything in power if you spread on map depriving from stacks. Usually worked. I don’t find it exceptional or extraordinary0 -
Alright, I'm not depending on luck but if that is your core argument and you are applying the logic that the killer has to be all-knowing, chess grandmaster level with no imperfections - I have nothing more to add to this conversation where we are clearly applying two different mindsets. I cannot debate someone whose core concept is to not ever drop pallets against Artist, Legion, or Doctor - nor can I debate someone who functionally implies repeated observation of misplays or patterns is "luck". I'm not engaging in some false idealized world that the player I am playing against is some deity that just is automatically good and your comment earlier where you implied if a killer does a mid play, therefore you are a mid player is Ad-hominem by definition - I'm not wasting my time on a person incapable of getting out of rigid black and white thinking.
Best of luck.
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I literally saying when and how… not “at all”. Said main “if”, a bunch of reservations. Sure. I just feel you read one sentence you didn't like and stop reading everything else. Because everything you trying to blame in wasn't actually told.
Yeah. You are mid player as soon as not maining specific character or invested a lot of time in game overall. Mid play doesn't mean bad, I don’t know why you are so sensitive about people you are facing generally being average, as majority are. There are many casual players who are good. Like I’m mid player myself except one killer, doesn't feel anything wrong about this. I just don't claim that the best counterplay ever evolves around capitalizing mistakes of someone being worse than me in advance in X situation.
You yourself started with “if Legion good enough”, and then dropped to explanation of counterplay when other side making many mistakes aka spamming power on Doc without purpose. It wasn't me who provided a plank of specific play in dialogue. You started this, and now got mad when I said it's not such a high skill to loop one tile against Doc or spamming vault button against Legion.
There are no idealised world, but I thought it is rational to try best in trial if you want to win. Which assume respecting opponent and feeling they understand characters they playing, until it will be proved otherwise. Especially in DBD where matchmaking is broken. Again, please, some attention, I said “until”. Didn't say always. There are no way of perfect play and I didn't even claim it.
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The only person I see being sensitive is you.
"Treat him like a killer you shouldn't drop pallet for without specific reason. There are plenty of them, like Doctor, Artist, Trickster, Houndmaster, Ghoul…"
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"If not from wrong but didn’t manage get stun, you just waste pallets. You drop only when sure she doesn’t have birds yet and this is safe tile for predrop to shift w."
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"Good Doctor will zone you as well, and at that moment, dropped pallet not gonna help you, only if you exploit bug with frames after he used power." (bug, lol.)
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"I’ll prefer to make few more rounds around some garbage before dropping pallet against Doc rather than using one thing and assuming player doesn’t know timings or not using electrodes :)"
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"Your choice wasting 20 seconds around one tile or 30 with constant connecting and pushing him farther from your start point, with probability of not wasting a single resource."
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"Is it me trying here point how it’s right to play or you sticking to only one possible scenario forgetting game can be variable and you should adapt?"
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"so skill expression - is average killer repeatedly doing mistakes or patterning mediocre play… wow… I thought actual skill expression is understanding actual potential of killer."
I hope you are aware in your rigid black and white thinking that even chess grandmasters made mistakes. People in sports, of all kinds are capable of making mistakes. Online multi-player is no exception, but again I do not expect much from someone with issues in dichotomy thinking. Every single aspect of professional sports, games, anything all capitalize on mistakes and adapting from the perceived errors their opponent consistently makes. You are arguing that a killer should be its pinnacle, when humans are humans and guess what humans do? Predictable patterns - but I digress, this is my last comment to you.
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If you read texts as whole and not sentences in vacuum, you’ve seen sth more.
They won’t let you leave zone where you can be closed,
”where”. So specific situation.
I’ll prefer to make few more rounds around some garbage before dropping pallet against Doc rather than using one thing and assuming player doesn’t know timings or not using electrodes
Literally explanation of situation where I drop pallet or not
"Is it me trying here point how it’s right to play or you sticking to only one possible scenario forgetting game can be variable and you should adapt?"
It was question, because you first started with point of me somehow claiming the only way you must play. When I never said this. I just you can do other way. Question literally pointing on it. so skill expression - is average killer repeatedly doing mistakes or patterning mediocre play… wow…
"If not from wrong but didn’t manage get stun, you just waste pallets. You drop only when sure she doesn’t have birds yet and this is safe tile for predrop to shift w."“If” - I was talking about side there literally. I even said situation when it’s actually guaranteed safe to drop. Because you yourself said “good Artist gonna force hit during change of loop”. When it actually happened just because pallet was dropped on side letting you without connection and you zoned yourself. And that’s why I said it’s better greed against this killer if she within range. I don’t know how many if, when, and where I must add and how much I should emphasise you to notice it.
I’m sorry, but it wasn’t me who started with “but what if Legion good enough”, “Welp, I played against Momo”, “I do counterplay and it exist! But in first message I’m gonna tell you it’s actually hard and iri button oppressive. I don’t why you even started dialogue with me about iri button being hard to counter, firstly pointing my way of counterplay by greed worse and requiring SFW for sone reason. When I just said whats even the point of dropping pallets against Legion if it’s not for the stun, because he is harmless during Frenzy. So my play against iri and non iri Legion doesn’t changed, it’s pre assumed and doesn’t harm me or my team anyway… even when it turns out he doesn’t have iri button.
I see that only you started that weird competition over who is playing better, and the only way to show opposite is showing my late messages throwing them out of context. I provided examples of situation where it’s more beneficial to greed - you started pointing out I am wrong. I simply disagreed with you, and you build up a theory I assume only one possible way of play. If you wanted prove something for yourself I’m not gonna stop you, your point aren’t ultimately wrong, they just contradicting for me and I’m confused why you even started this conversation. Sorry again if I somehow misread the room.0
