http://dbd.game/killswitch
Ghoul's Cooldown is ridiculous?
What does the community think of Ghoul's cooldown after their lunge?
The fact that ghoul can use their power and come out of it and use an M1 almost immediately seems strong to me and I feel it needs to be addressed.
It really feels that BHVR Dev's don't care that this is extremely broken as there's literally nothing you can do in open/dead space around the map.
Interested to know what others think and if BHVR should do something about it?
Comments
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Umm excuse me I PAID for this character and deserve to win. I honestly wouldn't have bought him if he didn't have advantages other killers don't. I'm not that great at killer so it's a win/win.
-33 -
Definitely problematic since the first hit is basically free.
Why does Legion have to suffer 3 second cooldown while Ghoul can exit cooldown almost instantly while having even less counterplay in denying the first hit?21 -
Pay to win tactics aren't exactly a good thing you know? If you're not that great at killer, you should work on improving that.
22 -
I paid more for the Maria silent hill skin should I win every game because I paid.
should everyone that brought v1 legion get refunded?15 -
I mean considering dbd track record with recent killers this is the intended result.
4 -
They need to remove the lock on hit if they want to keep his cooldowns so low. if they don't want to remove the free lock on hit then he needs to have longer cooldowns
8 -
my goodness, how many more nerfs till you guys are satisfied. He had at least 5 nerfs so far, thats enough
-23 -
If something had Nerfs it does not mean that it should not receive further Nerfs. Ghoul is still braindead easy for being a Top 3 Killer.
There is nothing wrong with easy Killers. Someone like Wraith is also not really hard to play, but has a realistic strength level for what is required to play him. Ghoul is at max as difficult as Wraith (possibly even easier) and is one of the best Killers. This does not add up, especially if you compare Ghoul to the other S-Tier Killers, Nurse and Blight. Nurse has a steep learning curve and even while she is not that hard once you got used to her, she is more difficult to play than Ghoul. And Blight requires effort to play on a high level.
12 -
Three patches with nerfs mixed with QOL for ghoul players, one where he was buffed.
14 -
Did you forget a /s?
11 -
It should be slightly longer (among other changes to him).
Ghoul just has way too much going for him in general. Why does this killer get free injuries, a deep wound mechanic, a power vault, a survivor hinder mechanic after vaulting, high mobility, a short cooldown after using power, Bamboozle as an addon, an alternative to BBQ as an addon, and on top of that be extremely easy to play relative to other top tier killers? While it's true he does have a high skill ceiling, his skill floor is extremely low and it's really not difficult to do well with him at all just by doing the bare minimum. There's a severe mismatch between his strength and the difficulty of playing the character. No killer should have all of what Ghoul has at the same time and most killers don't even have half of what I just listed out.
Imo, Ghoul is long overdue to be nerfed and should be high priority for changes, he has single-handedly made survivor less fun due to how frustrating he is to play against (in combination with how popular he is because he's extremely strong and easy to play) and he needs to be brought in line.
8 -
I don’t have any problems towards ghoul except two add-ons and free hit scan. Oh. And bounce logic with his animations. But that's all about QoL and only addons asking for nerf.
I feel people just asking SM treatment for him. Or Krasue one, just make this killer forgotten enough because their presence apply some psychic damage to unprepared minds. Too much at this point already.
Instead of nerfs he need some skill expression in his mechanic. You don’t make killer “harder” just by messing with numbers, it’s called design degradation.-3 -
I feel like all these killers have / had the same issue, there skill floor is too low or non exisitent
- V1 skull merchant, the legendary chess player that could make a match time out in a hour by just patrolling her gens
- The ghoul gets a unavoidable first hit, extremely easy to pick up and has very short cooldowns compared to others in roster easy to play no matter the skill level of the player.
- Krause came out and matches where basically easy wins for her, spit on someone, down them in headform rinse and repeat until dead (all though personally i feel like her issue is she was in the anti tunnel PTB everyone said she was too weak because the ptb had them changes so she got unneeded buffs out of the ptb)
Compare this like other newer killers like spring trap, he has good map control, a good power that can deny flash saves, undetectable out of the doors and decent ad ons (one that comes to mid is seeing gen progress in doors) but you cant just play him with your brain turned off like the others above.5 -
Ghouls leap attack Cooldown is 2.5 seconds when he can just land right next to you there's nothing you can do but die there's no chance to reach safety he needs to be slowed down at the end of his leap and his attack cooldown should be 4 seconds so survivor have a chance at safety.
Springtrap after throwing his axe can't attack for 4 seconds and he's a mid killer while Kaneki can make all the distance and fast recovery he wants
7 -
I won’t deny their designs problematics. But their main issue in their essence. For me the continuous hate speech for them that only leads to thrown numbers is meaningless.
Skull Merchants would be more meaningful if it would be more advanced gen RNG principle and it would be keeped in mind that 3 gen is a way to play and can be a macro strategy.
Ghoul would be more meaningful if this game had vertical gameplay.Krasue just a mix of other killers with easy concept in mind. But she took the most problematic stuff, aka bounce projectile that was forced to be auto aim cause of broken collisions (missed skill expression), absolutely hilarious hit box and dash as M1 (missed skill expression), pathetic synergy between two forms (probably the only thing that makes her skill related) and scamper. Yet zero usefulness in kit for dodging protective hits and major cooperation, which is the most frustrating part of gameplay. So, she can’t compete well against high level of play.
SM and Ghoul had potential of leading to release of new innovative mechanics in DBD. But broken base of the game handicapped devs.
P.S. I don't enjoy Springtrap either. For me he is just a vanilla version of all this downgraded design concept, which helped him to avoid hate treatment. He is one of the most unsatisfied character to go as and against for me. (yet pls, this is personal opinion, I don't despise choice of people who play on him And tolerate every killer main even if I dislike character)
-7 -
Frankly I'm tired of people crying about Ghoul. Learn to predrop. They aren't going to remove him and they aren't going to give him the Skull Merchant treatment. Give it up already.
-19 -
you know they wont ever do that. I hope he doesnt get the SM treatment, my heart ached for all the SM mains
-14 -
Because Legion is free.
1 -
No.
-11 -
Maybe I am not up to date but can Ghoul still cancel his second leap mid air?
If yes, this shouldn´t be a thing.
Other than that he is just a power crept legion.
Both get a free injure, and catch up to you fast and can vault pallets.
The difference is Ghoul can hold you while vaulting a pallet and catches up faster.
Since Legion isn´t liked it was no suprise for me that ghoul won´t be liked either.
7 -
There are a lot of scenarios this is real cheap and super easy... there are other scenarios this takes a lot of skill and very accurate aim control to pull off.
I'd be happier with it if his first injury wasn't free via the auto lock being removed, for the reasons that:
- If you're in a map with big dead zones and/or very few resources, you have 0 counterplay basically can't do anything in certain locations within the map.
- If you're a Kaneki player, accidentally grabbing a player while trying to make high skill lunge plays is a constant pain.
- Juking the grab would be actually rewarding at times, instead of just this annoying "just hit me already" interaction.
- Getting hit through a window and having him vault after you is fair enough cause he actually had to aim it instead of grab you for free, and functions basically like a Huntress hatchet, Alien tail, PH punishment or Nemmy Whip.
Heck, if they made his tentacles a skillshot, I'd be happy to buff him in return by giving him enraged mode on his m1s as well.... but this free grab is just ass.
1 -
Hmm. I would like to see how Ghoul would function without the autolock. Would it be like Wesker with him having to collide with the survivor, or would it be like it was before except the game doesn't help you with aiming?
1 -
Me and my friends play a lot (there are not many left, ngl)
We have a rule:
We can face ghoul 2 times a day. 3rd ghoul match is an instant DC and we go into another games. Bare in mind: we all have a lot of hours.
We don't want to keep facing him, he is too broken, too problematic, too strong, too miserable to bare.7 -
Honestly I save my free DC's for Ghouls rn, I just don't enjoy playing against him fair or not.
The screaming, the jank, the lack of interaction. I'd just rather not.
Literally the worst addition to this game for me ever and I don't say that lightly.5 -
I said it since launch but all ghoul needs is making his first injury attack a skill shot to make it possible for him to mess up and a QOL to reduce his minimum required distance for a leap to 3 meter from 5.
0 -
The Devs said when Ghoul was in his prototype phase his tentacles were a skillshot/projectile based but apparently it was so bad to use they had to make it hitscan and autoaim.
While I wish they would change it think they gotta just soft rework it by making him kinda like Nemesis where you have to infect them first before being able to injure you with your power.
0 -
dbd has been pay to win if you talk about perks alone especially survivor perks which are stronger on average than killer perk or at least have stronger combinations
-2 -
They tried that and it basically made him completely unplayable; no one could land the skillshot, especially on a controller.
-3 -
At the very least they could reduce the hitscan hitbox by 25%. That way if he misses he jumps at a wall past you, which would make him dodgeable like Wesker.
0 -
Let's just all play perkless trapper to amuse the masses. Dbd forbid a killer be viable and not require a massive amount of skill making him fun at all mmrs.
-7 -
They would get bored fast these days survivors just dont want sweat games (even the fact they do gens as fast ss they can), they dont want friendly pacifist killer brcause its free and its not chalange and mostly they dont want to go against most effective killers strategies like tunneling,sluging (even the fact most of them use the survivors most effective strategies to like fast gens, bodyblocking with endurance or if they can, etc.), its hard nowdays no matter what you do and how nice or chill you play survivors will still complain.
-3 -
What a strawman
13 -
Most Killers dont require a massive amount of skill. And you can win games with all Killers in the Roster, even the weaker ones.
And it is not even that Survivors want to only play against weak Killers, there are strong Killers in the game which are totally fine and almost nobody complains about (and "almost" only because there will be some people who just dont like a certain Killer).
But there is no need to have a Killer being braindead easy AND S-Tier at the same time.
9 -
Could take away his deep wounds. Doesn't make sense why he even had it. Could make it so his power applies deep wounds only if the target was already injured as a start.
2 -
No to what?
I didn't ask a yes or no question so not sure why you'd answer with it, and if you don't want to participate that's fine.
But you have zero value in this discussion.
I asked for what the DBD community think and I'd like it to be impartial if possible. Most people can, but some can't rationalise their thoughts so makes this quite hard to judge changes.I'm 5k hours in this game, so I feel like I have quite a good grasp.
I think the rest of Ghouls abilities are fine but the Cooldown of coming out of power is slightly too short. If its currently 1seconds it needs to be 1.8/2 seconds. That's the only thing I think needs to change.
I feel like if you're a killer, and you use a power and mess up, you're not rewarded for it. Using what is an attack power to be right up to a survivor should not be rewarded.
If I could change that, and one other thing, it would be be nice to have some sort of audable notification when they're in power, (slightly like hound master's dog) but besides that I don't think much else needs to change.
It seems there's a mixture of answers so it's quite interesting to read the rest of the comments.3 -
I'd like to just state that yes, I do play 2 perk trapper quite often and I have a lot of fun pushing it to get 3/4ks which happens often. Obviously some games you get shat on but way less than you'd think.
2 -
:)
0 -
It's not crying but thinking about the strength and skill level of this killer - I'm not asking remove this killer but simply that the cooldown coming out of the leap ability is slightly to strong and I think it is a valid reason to raise it on forums.
BHVR might listen if there's enough noise, which is what happened with both nurse (perks), as well as SM changes
6 -
Ghoul's vault is overall way stronger than Legion's vault.
He can also catch up faster.For some reason he can still fully cancel mid leap, which just shouldn't be a thing.
Ghoul is definetly Legion on steroids.
6 -
True but then question is how he will interact with injured survivors because if you make he deep wounds them when he hits them injured (uneffected by his mark, that thing that boosts him) he will have to hit them two times which isnt ideal but I fear more of bugs that will be long time in the game like huntress or slinger hit validation, houndmasters dog getting stuck etc..
-2 -
You did though, you asked several:
- Ghoul's Cooldown is ridiculous?
- if BHVR should do something about it?
-6 -
Still no value. Anyway.
3 -
It's not okay if he is unenjoyable for the masses.
3 -
But its okay to have a brain dead killer in f tier... make it make sense?
-7 -
Do you have any argument other than a strawman?
No one has said make him F-tier.
8 -
Well spoken
-2 -
Trappers goated!
-3 -
If it were up to survivors, all killers would be f tier. Don't wanna play s tier killers? Stop winning matches and play the new guys who dont know how or who to win with yet.
-8 -
Once again, another strawman.
Guess that answers my question.
8 -
Not really… the title of my post is exactly that…. a title which essentially is rhetorical and really my thoughts on it.
And didn't even remotely ask the 2nd question in any way. I stated the fact that I believe BHVR don't care about changing it.
Thanks for adding such amazing value to the discussion.
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