http://dbd.game/killswitch
Please Let Killers Abandon
I'm so tired of horrible matches where I feel totally powerless as Killer and I've lost before the match even begins because of perk/power/map/MMR matchups. I no longer have faith that BHVR can fix these problems, so just let me go next without having to DC like Survivors can.
Comments
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Survivors can also only abandon in very specific situations. And well, Killers should not go next, a Killer DC is probably even worse than a Survivor DC, because when a Survivor DCs this sucks for all other Survivors (not for the Killer, since it is a free win with a Bot), but at least the game goes on. If a Killer DCs, the game would be over immediatly.
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So in short you just want easy matches and be free to leave when ever you want without penalty.
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these very specific situations are becoming more frequent and common. people avoid the go next pen by just going down, when 1 throws others tend to do the same because they feel there is no point playing a match where the team is throwing. when all are down, all abandon and avoid the DC pen and go next pen.
a common situation in matches at the moment is one throws, another follows, killer gets 2 easy downs before a gen is even half way done. the other 2 survivors have a choice, play out a match where half the team isnt bothering or follow the throwing to abandon. what do you think people are doing in that situation? playing a hopeless match or going for the abandon? the match is over, the downed survivors turn to bots the killer can abandon too to just end it or wait out the bots hook timers but the match is over, there is no gameplay to be had. The killer abandon equivalent could just remove the killer from the game, gens get finished automatically, survivors can either open the gate for a free win much like the killer waits for hook timer when bots are hooked, or they can abandon too.
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For context I want to be able to abandon when enough time has passed without successfully hooking a Survivor. Being able to concede when a match is clearly lost would save everyone time and grief and help with burnout. I'm just sick of having to play out a match that is basically irredeemable so the Survivors can teabag me at the exit gates.
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"Survivors can also only abandon in very specific situations. And well, Killers should not go next, a Killer DC is probably even worse than a Survivor DC, because when a Survivor DCs this sucks for all other Survivors (not for the Killer, since it is a free win with a Bot), but at least the game goes on. If a Killer DCs, the game would be over immediately."
The match is over and the Survivors win. They get to escape with all their BP, while the Killer gets nothing and a timeout penalty. I just don't see why a Killer who's clearly aware that they're past the point of no return has to keep going or face a penalty just for the amusement of the Survivors, like they're some kind of dancing monkey.
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I just want to be able to abandon once the gate is open
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I think the key difference here is again, if a survivor DCs, the other four people in the match still get to play the game.
If the killer DCs, the match instantly ends. Even if it's counted as a win to the survivor players, they fundamentally still did not get to actually play the game.
Even if the killer was just gone and the survivors finished gens and left without the threat, that isn't what the game is. That's just playing generator simulator—an aspect of gameplay that most regard as the most boring part of the entire game. That's it. That's the reason. If a survivor DCs, the other four players can still play the game. If the killer DCs, they deny everyone else in the match the ability to play. That's why killers can't abandon.
And once again, I have been in matches that seemed completely over and seen killers come back to 4Ks. I've been that killer, and I will readily admit I'm a pretty ass killer player. The game isn't really at any point totally without merit for the killer player, until the last survivor has actively left the trial, there is always the ability to come back to some degree. Most of the situations in which survivors can abandon without penalty, there is no come back, there is no merit, just a dragging out of the inevitable, and often times there's little to no real interactivity at all (slugged, hooked, etc).
A common complaint I see from killer mains re: survivors abandoning and being left with the bots is that the bots aren't as fun to play against. Which I can absolutely understand, but a survivor bot replacing an abandon or DC still allows you, in some capacity, to play out the match. The reverse isn't true.
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"Even if the killer was just gone and the survivors finished gens and left without the threat, that isn't what the game is. That's just playing generator simulator—an aspect of gameplay that most regard as the most boring part of the entire game"
So the survivors all throw, go down and abandon leaving the match penalty free….the killer is left with picking up 4 downed survivors, hooking them and waiting out the hook with nothing to do at all, the most boring part of the entire game for killer. How is this any different to survivors doing gens or opening the gate with no killer when the killer abandons leaving penalty free?
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If Killer bots are added on DC then we can open up abandons options (made thread advocating for this few weeks back)
until then if a killer DCS the match just ends which is not fair on the survivors, at least if all survivors dc the killer can choice to continue the match with bots (farming bp) and is not kicked from the match as soon as all survivors are bots.
That is key difference its not a us vs them thing its a one side has bots that come into play if someone leaves one side does not and the whole match ends.
I think @littlehoot previous comment sums that up well.1 -
Showing that you don't know the abandoning rules. Killer can abandon after all survivors are bots and its not counted a loss but a draw so no effect on MMR.
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yes they can abandon but doing so means the killer does not get the 4k, the match is void. its killers choice to mop up, finish the match and make it count or just void it.
Flip this so killer abandons but the match goes on without the killer, survivors could abandon and make the match void just like killer can when all survivors are downed and abandon. Or they could choose to mop up, finish the match which means they walk away with an escape instead of a void just like killer can choose to walk away with the 4k instead of a void match.
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I don't really get what you are on about now. There is no situation where match would go on without killer or are you trying to speculate a scenario where killer would be replaced with a bot. Well there is no such situation as there is no killer bots in 1v4 and match ends if killer DC. Even in that choice the match ends with a tie you don't get a win with it as survivor if killer leaves.
You are just now inventing situation that has no pairing of anything in this. Why are you complaining about a choice you are given the choice and you are also wrong when survivors abandon the match is counted for the to be a loss. Only time survivor gets out "free" not effecting their MMR is when you are the last survivor to leave when all others are bots already so that means all others have left one way or another. This does not mean when all are downed or on hook as that one is considered a loss for the survivors even for the one who leaves last.
At least as a killer there is a choice to win the match if you kill the bots but you can take the tie if you don't want to waste the time killing bots its up to killer player in question. Still in the end the win/loss only effects MMR so most likely does almost nothing in the end.
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thats exactly what im suggesting, for bhvr to allow killers to abandon while allowing the match to continue. its a suggestion to allow the killers the same as what survivors currently have.
im not complaining about anything im just saying what killer wants to draw a match they won? they dont so they need to finish the match. survivors should have this same choice, killer abandons, they would then have a choice of abandon and take a draw for a match they have clearly won or they finish up and take the win.
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There is no point for that kind of feature then if that is truly what you are suggesting on my opinion. Would just hog a server that could be used by other people to play real match.
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hog a server in the same way it does with killers that remain in the match to clean up instead of abandoning?
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An Abandon is treated the same as a DC and if anyone DCs from a match before it is finished, the entire match is thrown out. Sure, you keep your points, but the match does not go into determining your MMR rating nor taken into account with BHVRs internal data. Other than you having some BP to show for it, the entire match never happened the second any player DCs or Abandons.
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Not true. You will lose MMR if you abandon being all survivors slugged situation or you abandon because you got slugged the third time. Reason why because those are considered a loss to you.
As killer you lose MMR if you abandon when there is no completed or regressed generator in last 10 minutes.
Thats what the DBD wiki says about the feature. Otherwise you could abuse the system by abandoning in the end and not lose MMR even if you clearly lost the match.
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Well, the DBD Wiki is wrong as BHVR clarified that if anyone DCs or Abandons, the entire match doesn't count. Now, the moderator from BHVR that said that could in theory be wrong, but I would trust them over the Wiki.
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The one thing I know about the wiki is that they update it by the code from the game so if the game code says you lose MMR you lose MMR.
They could have changed it and nobody updated the wiki but as they compared the game code after changes they usually update anything that is changed.
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The abandon feature has been incredibly unhealthy for the game. Ironically in a bid to punish giving up, we've only added the element of "ethical" giving up to the fray which unsurprisingly has no clearly defined limit. It seems that as time goes on, we've added so many of these "ethical" scenarios that it's becoming unrecognizable from the supposedly "unethical" system we had prior to June.
We're only being led back to the same exact conclusion we've known for years now, and which we've clearly communicated—players are fatigued by the game. They don't want to stick out scenarios that aren't fun and appear to be a losing battle. We can argue potential all that we want, but none of us are clairvoyant. It boils down solely to fun and the game is not fun in its current state.
All of that being said, I'm going to contradict myself and welcome more reasons to abandon being added to the game. Despite how closely it resembles what's not allowed, it's a system that restores player autonomy and that is something that is sorely lacking from the game. It highlights the importance of issues that have gone ignored far too long at this point and need to be addressed. Band-aid fixes are killing the game slowly, in my opinion.
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name me one situation where a surrender is NEEDED.
similar to survivors being slugged for 4 minutes or hiding for the entire match to never progress the game.0 -
Well, obviously dataminers know more about the game code than BHVR. My bad.
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With Dev statements you have the problem if the question was asked or understood the way you think it was. Thats why I don't take everything people say as some fact as in the end everyone can make mistakes or explain things wrong even I can. Still the wiki is done by dataminers as you say so I would trust it to say how it works in the game. I just don't use the wiki to know how the game states things to work as it clearly can't provide that information.
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I will point something out… Just because the code says "Yo, bruh you just lost MMR!" doesn't mean that the servers on BHVRs end acknowledge that change, and that isn't something dataminers would be privvy to unless they were much much more than just dataminers.
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You do also realize if you would not lose MMR in certain abandoning situations then it could be abused by players to not lose MMR. Like if you think you don't lose MMR when you are downed and killer downs the last survivor causing the game to let you abandon you are just fooling yourself. Of course you lose MMR as you lost the match.
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to be fair, thats exactly what has been said…. abandons dont effect MMR, meaning you dont go up or down. Its void.
When asked about the stats tracker not tracking matches, this is the respose:
As we all know the stats tracker and the stats BHVR uses are not the same. But the point to note here is the "MMR is not affected".
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Maybe they can add a killer bot once they use the abandon feature. As the alredy have bots written for all the 2v8 killers to take over in the same situation. But for some reason if the 2nd killer dcs it still ends
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Thanks for that quote, I was trying to find it but couldn't.
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So you want to abandon in a situation that reveals your lack of skill and the only thing you want is to cut off your training time? Youre literally just screwing yourself in this scenario. You will just loose out on opportunities to get more experience. Another match wont bring you more benefit.
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This could be said regarding the survivors ability to abandon after being downed twice. Even when they have been recovered and the match is still going on, the survivor could be said to have demonstrated lack of skill by going down on more than one occasion, instead of playing out the rest of the match to to possibly win or atleast gain experience and practice the survivor has an option to abandon.
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I feel like your understanding of how DBD works is very optimistic: unfortunately it does not match the majority of my experiences with the game. About 75% of my games as Killer can be broken down to a) I catch a Survivor because they brought no info perks or they make a mistake and they give up by disconnecting or refusing to engage with the trial, ruining the match for everyone else, or b) horrible map and loop RNG, me being stupid enough not to play the sweatiest, nastiest Killers and builds I can think of, being matched against Survivors with as many as 4 times my hours who have decided to bring the most busted builds possible (with or without SWF buddies in their Twitch stream), or some combination of all of the above, means I lose control of the match pretty much immediately and have no way of asserting control or even "improving" since I'm hopelessly outgunned from the get-go. The remainder are games which were challenging and I do win, but most of those are utterly miserable examples of me resorting to the kind of tactics Survivors hate a(nd I'm not fond of either) because the Survivors leave me no other options.
Your viewpoint makes a number of assumptions I can't recognise: namely that these matches are opportunities for development and not a waste of everyone's time, and that I'm not already as good as I can get at Killer without grinding DBD exclusively, which I wouldn't even want to do if my matches are going to be this much of a horrible, pointless slog. The game already accepts that some Trials become irredeemable for Survivors and offers them an easy way out, so if the Killer can't straight-up concede from the menu, just let them open the exit gates and walk out of there themselves.
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It cant. You clearly do not understand that lack of skill isnt an issue there cause the game is designed to get downed several times. And while being downed there isnt any value of stayxing in game if it happens this often. Its basically inevitable to get downed. Please stay objective.
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if a survivor is downed then killer chases a flashlight player away, that downed survivor gets healed. if the killer find that same survivor again and downs them but someone sabo the hook, killer puts them down chases after someone else but find its a strong looper so drops chase…that downed survivor gets healed. 1 gen popped…. killer 0 kills and 0 hooks. if that survivor is not able to last 10 seconds in a chase then yes its lack of skill because they cant loop very well. the match is going on, survivors already have 1 gen done and killer has 0 hooks…. that survivor that went down and got recovered twice is at full health and ready to try looping again. they go down near a pallet, killer chases a survivor away….that downed survivor now has a choice. practice looping when they are recovered for a 3rd time, or abandon.
This situation is the survivor not being able to loop as good as others can resulting in being downed fast. its ok for survivors to abandon and not practice, not improve an aspect of the game they struggle with, not gain the experience of trying to loop a particular killer, just abandon but it not ok for killers to abandon and cut their practice and experience?
Each time a survivor abandons or DC's or go next when they have the option to practice looping is essentially screwing themselves over by not taking the opportunity to gain experience
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Youre just talking about some minor edge cases nobody cares for. It would be great if you could stop your "us vs them" mindset, and actually start using reasonable arguments.
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this situation is pretty common actually. especially with killers actually try to slug but failing to do so which results in people being recovered. the only us v them i see is you saying its 1 rule for us but a different rule for them. im saying both sides should have equal choice and your argument of "killers are cutting their practice by abandoning" isnt a good argument because survivors do exactly that. i would argue survivors have been doing that for years with the whole go next mentality where people would suicide on hook. the failed at looping, go next hoping the next match will be easier. killers dont get that choice and never have
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