The hard truth: why killer mains think Dbd is survivor sided even though it isn't

MMR isn't as simple as everyone wants it to be.

First off, I think the one thing just about all of us agree on is that the matchmaking is poor. They're are only four brackets and there's a good chance you'll be matched with people who appear to be in a different one than your own. The people I'm matched to have more to do with the time of day than anything else I can ascertain.

MMR gains and losses aren't some 1 for 1 number. If you're a killler who gets paired with three survivors in lower-mid and one in uppermost but you only kill the three lowers, you're going to get a lot less MMR from those three than you would have from the other, and you're going to loose a little for that one escaping. Special events, like Haunted by Daylight and Bone Chill, affect your stats but not your MMR. So your personal stats don't always reflect your MMR level.

Than there's the abandon system. If we go by what Balrog said (and we still have no clarification) you don't gain MMR from bots, and there's more and more ways to abandon. So if you go into matches and just slug people until they abandon, you'll gain kills in stats but not MMR. In my last 275 matches I had 196 abandons. That's 17% of my opponents who I didn't gain MMR from but still beat.

This is only talking about killers too. There's plenty of assuming survivors in this forum, but a high ER doesn't mean they're super skilled. The abandon let's you remove bad games from your stats. You said yourself people get downed on purpose to abandon. This happens in my matches daily. The result is the survivors don't loose their MMR or gain a loss on their records, and I don't gain MMR yet I gain kills. So you have survivors with inflated stats and MMR, and killer's with stats that might not reflect their MMR, plus matchmaking so bad it doesn't even matter. How worthwhile is a system like that for assuming or discussing anything?

true but like i said if a killer is getting 4k often for years then notices a huge difference in matches and an increase in swf then its a reasonable assumption to assume they are in high mmr. even having less mmr for killing easy players, after years it would add up

1. the fact that a killer getting high kill rates then gets pushed into high mmr where the swf seal teams live where the kill rates suddenly drop means its survivor sided unless they even it out. killers even it out by either playing s tier killers or tunneling or sometimes both.
2. if slugs are spread out the killer cant protect everyone so when the killer is camping 1 slug another can be revived, now there are 2 survivors…killer has to chase 2 people and protect 2 slugs…. how? im solo player and this has happened v a slugging deathslinger pretty recently. i have even managed to crawl to 1 of the hatch spawns when i have been slugged and i have escaped this way. it was very lucky but it has happened. my point is that these situations have a tiny sliver of chance to escape yet survivors can abandon and skip it. This tiny sliver to get a kill v healthy survivor 1m from the exit is much the same. is it possible the survivor messes up and the killer gets a down yes but its highly unlikely, just as unlikely as a survivor able to crawl to the hatch when slugged

i would say it more reasonable to assume after years of getting high kill rate to be in high mmr than it is to assume years of high kill rate and still be in the lower mmr. thats just logic. we dont know the mmr so the only basis we have is whats logically more likely. we could all be wrong and mmr doesnt even exist but we are told it does exist and kills increase mmr, even if its slightly.

And yet if they are, you objectively have more chance of a comeback than almost every single different killer does when all remaining survivors are in the exit gate (with very few exceptions.) All survivors being downed is still a check scenario as long as a single one has an opportunity to recover and reset. Even disregarding that, hatch is basekit, and can even have its general location manipulated with offerings. Your chances might not be as high as you would like, nor even very high at all sometimes, but they are more than zero.

Considering how powerful that ability to literally undo the killing blow is, you would think every single game would have at least one person running one, especially with how strong something like conviction is when used properly. And yet instead everyone is allowed to give up before that type of reset, so why would anyone bring it when they can just prematurely give up instead and not even have to be subjected to waiting for their loss? Abandoning being available literally discourages using the tools that are given to prevent the situation, so they become as underutilized as kindred. Meanwhile, when people talk about scenarios in the exit gate where hitting out is literally non-gameplay, they are talking about ones where even those small chances do not exist. It is a true checkmate, requiring survivors to directly undermine their own victory for any other outcome to occur.

When people talk about the double standard, they're not necessarily talking about stuff like just the exit gates being powered. Checkmate scenarios don't actually occur on the survivor side until much later than people lament, and it often causes them to prevent themselves from even getting an opportunity to utilize those chances. Since we can't control the agency of other players in things like their loadout, we can always instead be that person for the team (and ourselves.) Unfortunately, like you mentioned, the assumption that nobody else will bother means they might not even wait for you to start the reset, so defeatism strikes again.

Nice strawman. I didn't say it's fine, I said that it's only fair to provide the killer the same ability to save their time in the same kind of hopeless situation, when in actuality only survivors have this luxury now.

You shouldnt play something that isnt fun for you. But everyone is different. I played mostly survivor for the event and only three killer rounds (for the killer-only challenges). I am an experienced player with zero need for bloodpoints and i play only solo que.

I don’t have any “political agenda”. I actually play survivor more than I play killer. I’m simply tired of people like you who only play one side posting things like this that serve no constructive purpose and are solely intended to antagonize the side that they don’t play / don’t like.

I do not know how it is right now, but at the beginning of the year, and for a majority of the games life time, it was, that at the highest level of play, the game was heavily survivor sided.

This level of play, however, does not represent a majority of public matches, where killers are doing perfectly fine. In lower levels of play, the game is and arguably always has been killer favored as survivors lack the necessary knowledge to properly waste the killers time and be efficient on generator progress.

As the game hasn't changed that much, I still think that this is largely the same. So if people say, the game is survivor sided, they are either biased or speaking about the highest level of play.

Not consensus, its an irrational belief which spread quite far.

There is probably a wider gap between different killer characters than between solo and swf.

OP is a blatant troll (possibly even a bot?), using terms like "political agenda" on a game forum should be enough proof to that.

Either way, people like OP are why killer Q is instant these days. I guess all these killers left cause they are rly bored of the easy 4k matches they get! /s

You're also assuming that everyone who says their upper MMR has a high KR and has played for years. I've seen people post terrible KRs in one thread and refer to themselves as upper MMR in another.

And Aven_Fallen's point stands. If all these people are upper MMR, why do they complain about getting no hooks before gens start popping or about Sprint Burst or any little thing that such a super skilled player would be able to deal with?

Most killers have options when the survivor sprint bursts away, one of which is always to drop the chase. Even ghostface has the option to stalk the survivor as they sprint burst away and then go elsewhere. Hag and Trapper can decide whether or not to chase based on whether or not the survivor is headed to an area they have trapped or just an area they want to go to in the first place. All of this is "dealing" with sprint burst without needing to actively outrun the survivor. The whole point of looping is that it gives you a way to "outrun" the killer without needing to be faster than them.

Poor, extensive, long bait

You can just use mindbreaker. That‘s what I do on killers that have no catch up potential.

I think there's a difference in why people think the abandon mechanic exists.

Does it exist for when gameplay is no longer possible?

Or does it exist as a mercy rule when one side cannot advance its position (i.e. achieve a 'win') anymore?

The survivor standards (especially everyone slugged/dead) meet both criteria - you're no longer doing anything and you likely can't advance your position (and if you can, you don't have to abandon).

The killer being able to abandon when the survivors are just hiding out meets the former, but not the latter. They obviously could still find and kill the survivors, but there is no actual gameplay happening.

The killer with the survivors in the exit gate meet the latter, but not the former. They still can still engage the survivors, but there's really no chance of actually winning (this is kind of equivalent to a survivor playing out chases after the match is effectively over - they have no chance of winning, but they are still engaged in gameplay).

BHVR's standard seems to be the first argument - when does gameplay end, not when is the match effectively decided, which is why I think the hypocrisy arguments don't work.

the cooldown is so short that if you keep dropping chase and returning you’ll just make no progress and eventually lose

if you use mindbreaker it might work on some situations but really you’re just allowing the survivor to 99% their sb easier especially if they have a friend telling them ghostface is coming so they leave 2 seconds earlier than usual

there’s a reason why sb is one of the best perks in the game it is great and always useful against every single killer in the game

Humiliation is the key there I think. Killer can totally single out one player and ruin the game for them, but Survivor is more likely to feel frustrated by that scenario than humiliated. Maybe I'm speaking only for myself, but I don't think there are very many things on Survivor that really encourage you to feel like you're a loser which is the benefit of not being the power role. For Killer, it's sort of like all eyes are on you when you fail so you always feel like the odd man out. Which is ironic because that's the draw to the role in the first place—being the main character.

Ultimately I feel like there's no real way to quantify it. I think that outside of the "rules for thee but not for me" mentality several players tend to have, there is a desire for the abandon mechanic to merely be a legal go next/DC. It's not so much about whether you can or can't advance, but more about whether you feel like playing anymore. Where we got stuck in the weeds was trying to force other players to engage with us when they were very much over it.

Its MMR based with RNG playing a heavy factor.

• At low MMR, the game is very killer sided
• At average MMR, the game is pretty balanced, but RNG can make most matches seem like a blowout one way or the other through crazy tiles that spawn for survivors, or deadzones, or really good 3 gen spawns etc.
• At high mmr, the game is very survivor sided.

However, the RNG in this game is so intense, you could have a low MMR game that is massively survivor sided with a ton of crazy setups (although its less of a problem because the survivors won't know how to use them very well) and similarly have massive deadzones at high mmr leaving the survivors with basically nothing to defend themsevles and creating a big blowout for the killer.

Doublethink seems to pervade every aspect of the game from the killer perspective

I think this is very true. You can be a D tier killer hitting a gen rushing SWF group, or you can be a soloq player running D tier perks hitting a sweaty Nurse.

It's not unique to one side. Whether good design or not, the game allows sweatiness (a difficulty slider in my opinion) on both sides - but whole discussions get derailed as if the killer side of it is unique.

Survivors are bad but also unbeatable.

This is one of my favorites.

Tunneling only works against low mmr survivors but is also required to beat good survivor teams. 

Yeah, we really got into a lot of Kettle Logic with the anti-tunnel arguments.

Lower skill killers lose to these teams but think they are better at killer than they actually are.

One thing I'll add to this - everyone should run into games where the opponents felt unbeatable (regardless of side). Whatever your MMR there should be matches where you hit people better than you, or you missed something without realizing it, or you just lost a lot of 50/50s. That is true for both survivors and killers, but it seems to primarily be a killer argument that no one can understand the caliber of opponents they are hitting - when that is one of the most normal feelings in any type of PvP game.

I watched a recent dev live stream on YouTube and a dev said to type K, S, or B in chat to see if you're a killer main, survivor main or hybrid. overwhelming the chat was flooded with K's. there were hardly any S's and B's.

This honestly has to be the most idiotic thing I read in this post. If you even watched the dev stream they themselves said a lot of B's. Plus if you go look at the chat you will see far more B's than S or K with a good balance of S and K. The rage bait is for real. Honestly the majority of the posts I see on the forums are the weakest rage bait ever.

Unskippable cutscenes are reviled in gaming for a reason.