Stop using Trappers kill rate as an excuse to not buff him

Crapper is definitely killer on hardcore mode. His power design relies on survivors walking into traps and his wincon is survivors outplaying themselves at loops. The only thing he can potentially do is basement and this is easily countered by not going down near the basement. Even then, the hooked survivor simply uses Will To Live and this strat is destroyed immediately.

I dont see a way to buff this killer to relevancy except with a dash. If you give trapper some kind of movement or teleport to counter the prerun strat, survs will actually have to loop him which means that they might actually get trapped.

That being said, we don't need another boring dash/mobility killer. My suggestion is homing missile traps which immediately trap the survivor when landed.

Trapper is easy as hell to 4K if you've learned the fundamentals of killer. All you gotta do is place traps smart in the grass on important loops and you get a free win in most cases. You just slap on the trap resetting and auto injure perk and you get free hits just for walking around doing nothing while your traps do all the work. God forbid someone go down beside the shack basement cause then its all over. But if you're used to only relying on slugging , tunneling and camping with high mobility killers like Blight and Kaneki, then yeah, you have to actually learn the game. But if you've learned to play killer, he's perfectly capable of getting decent results being one of the few killers that isn't completely broken from being so OP.

Fact is if we use same logic as using trapper kill rates for him not needing buffs or rework (that should come in 2026 with merchants and tricksters) we can say "nurse needs buffs because she has small kill rates" or "nurse doesnt need rework or any nerfs because her kill rates arent above average" and those are facts these people cant chew through.

For the record, if we're thinking of the same statement, BHVR did not say they wouldn't buff Trapper because of his killrate.

If you're referring to that reddit AMA answer, the most important thing to remember is that they announced a Trapper buff in that answer.
The second most important thing to remember is that what they said they didn't want to do was rework Trapper, due to a combination of his killrates being better than some think at lower and middling levels, and them liking him as the basic, simple, pick-up-easily killer for newer players.
(They never clarified on the killrate thing, but I personally interpret it as not wanting to make him too oppressive at low levels, which is a real concern.)

Making sure Trapper isn't too much of a noob stomper is a concern, a real one that does need to be kept in mind, but I've always maintained he can be healthily buffed within that framework. What he's received so far has been genuinely helpful, but he's still missing that extra oomph that he needs to really be able to run his gameplan well.

I've always pitched these things, broadly:

• Trapper's traps should spawn already placed at windows and pallets, to allow players to just arm those and cut down on setup time if they're acceptable placements
• Trapper's traps could (depending on testing) be altered visually depending on what map you're on to cut down on Eyrie of Crows being a hard counter
• Trapper's addons should be overhauled with an eye towards giving him options he doesn't currently have (such as Undetectable, to give one example) and an understanding that survivors disarming traps is a more realistic trigger for activation than them stepping in traps.
• Less committed to this but I do think re-arming traps could stand to be faster than placing them, or maybe something with grabbing someone out of a trap automatically resetting it (versus smacking them out to keep it disarmed)

Even just that first point would really help Trapper out, but anything more would be ideal obviously.

Have they ever given Trappers kill rate in high MMR? It might be higher than any of us expects (not that I actually expect it to be that high). As much as we rightfully trash matchmaking it does carry some weight. Not buffing Nurse is a perfect example of this and how BHVR is sometimes better about stat usage than they are given credit for, she had a 67% kill rate in the Jan-March stats in high MMR.

Going down in shack against trapper or other killers that can deffend it well and make saves there almost impossible or super hard is survivors fault because killer goes where survivor runs in chase no other way around (mind games are just countering this and buying time but still killer goes where he thins survivor runs)

This ignores zoning as a skill set the killer should have and there isn't enough time to scout the map. If you haven't been to main or shack and get pushed to one you can go down near basement without knowing its there. It also ignores perks that help you get a survivor to basement, I have been dragged across a map to basement because the killer brought agi + iron grasp. Sure it means fewer slots for other perks but an early enough hook in basement can mean a loss right then and there.

Myers isn’t a dash killer bro a long lunge is not a dash

Plus Myers got stronger and is now actually decent to use and he still is Myers it’s not like he uses a gun

Your making it out like trapper will use a machine gun if they reworked him

I've watched onepumpwillie, how he got the wins doesn't really matter, he won those matches and not every match ended that way. Someone could take his build and get similar results if they are at least as skilled as willie (not likely lol and batteries has since been reverted to 5%). If they are not as skilled as willie they shouldn't expect to get those results but trapper would still remain capable of those results. Matchmaking throws a bit of a wrench into this but both players would be under the same matchmaking criteria, so not as much of an issue as it might first appear, and I think we can both agree that willie did face multiple strong teams during the streak, not just the team that ended it. This does apply to swf escape streak too but the longest swf escape streak is shorter than willies trapper streak, though not by much (unless that changed recently).

It does matter how he got them because if you take it in average games trapper wont be able to do it, the win rate from willie is that high because he is very good as killer and he got basicaly endgame perks that helped him go for massive slugs but even with that there were games where he struggled and some game I believe he would even loose if survivors had one or two unbreakables (his slugs would mean nothing).

I do look around when running and think about where to run to and I agree that sometimes its better to go down faster but there is a lot more nuance in the calculation than just basement. If a gen is about to pop and you don't know any of the killers perks you are best off assuming pain res/dms and making sure the gen pops by going to the strong structure for the best chance of ensuring it happens. Its no different than shack pallet, sometimes its better to throw it early and preventing an early basement hook is one of the best reasons to do so.

There is untold rule only more seasoned players know and thats to dont go near basement against some killers like trickster,trapper,bubba,hag because is god dam hard to get save against them from basement and usualy against these killers you can assume pain res/dms but stull its not good idea to push your luck (same like running from blight in open are without any objects you can use as protection or using long loop walls like back of the shack because you should know well he will get you there with his fast rushes and without perks or bodyblocks you will get hit or go down, you dont loop blight like m1 killer in short so as other fact dont go near basement or structures that can have basement against some killers and you are safe mostly and if they got basement build then they lack other parts and you will most likely die but still thats soloq thing and lack of comunication that makes this possible).

Some killers are better at zoning, its part of their balancing, but trying to double back at a check spot can also just get you hit if the killer guesses that is what you will do and some killer powers make that an incredibly bad idea. I don't disagree with anything you said but I think you are downplaying how much agency the killer has over the direction of the chase.

Look killer can zone but survivor can also react to it if he doesnt have any other option like he is cornered against knight who has jailer on him or other situations like this, using check spots for double backing is like 50/50 with droped pallets either you vault and killer expects it and gets you or he doesn and swing and misses or simular situations where it mostly depends on what other side is thinking and respecting like pallets.

Ultimately, to me, basement is just bad reductive game play, no different than camping. You just trade hooks with no one doing anything truly skillful while the rest of the team sits on gens and walks out the door. I do understand why killers do it but I think it actively hurts the game and basement is the ultimate form of hook trade game play (obviously if survivors are contesting the hook this doesn't apply, especially multiple survivors).

Idk what now was basement created for but its place where you have chest and can hide (killers doesnt check it mostly) but its just place that you should doge because killer has advantage there (some like doging main or shack and other strong loops if you can choose as killer chase you will doge those becaue you know survivor has uppe hand there and it will cost you preasure and time,resources, so its better to dege it if you can) and especialy doging it against killers that have powers with good deffence like trapper or hag or those that can injure multiple survivors in short time these are strongest killers with basement and its better to dont give it to them because your whole game can be reversed from hard winning to just loss becaue these killers get just one down and hook in basement and survivors them missplay.

I use the fact that he is unfun to play against as an excuse to not buff him.

Trapper's largest issue is the same as Ghostface: if a player follows you the entire game, you basically have no power.

Winning 210 games in a row sounds pretty reliable to me. I am certain willie faced those perks during the run and still won. It takes skill to pull back a game by slugging in endgame but it is a common tactic if the game gets that far. Sometimes you get nothing for it, sometimes it wins you the game. The fact that it doesn't win you every game doesn't make it unreliable, tunneling doesn't win you every game but calling it unreliable would be false. Slugging in endgame is a reliable way to pull back a game and one that tends to require more effort and skill from the survivors to counter than it does for the killer to execute once the killer gets the snowball rolling.

Comparing it to gen slowdown perks isn't a great argument since gen slowdown isn't what won trapper the most matches in a row. Too many people try to play every killer the same exact way, use the exact same builds, and refuse to try different perks when each killer must play to their strengths. If gen slowdown was the most reliable way to play trapper we would have seen willies win streak use those perks because they would have been what he found most effective while theory crafting the build. He didn't jump straight to the endgame build, he tried things out and decided for himself what was most likely to get him the streak.

The rest of your arguments just seem to boil down to "but if the survivors are good" but willie faced good survivors in his streak and beat them. At some point this stops being luck and starts just being what is possible with trapper in skilled hands. I am specifically stating that it wouldn't make sense to balance trapper using just this streak, but that it should be considered.

Something can simultaneously be in the game, which makes it a perfectly valid thing or tactic to use, while still doing damage to the game. I would argue that basement is bad for the game because of the game play loop it encourages. I am not saying trapper is strong because basement and agree that would be lunacy. If I showed games where I pushed through the killer stacking pain res/grim/dms/deadlock and we four man escaped all while asking for those perks to be nerfed you would rightfully note that the survivors won and ask why it makes sense to nerf those perks when we won, but I see the exact thing from killer content creators all the time and not a single person calling them out on it.

This started because I asked if we had ever been given trappers kill rate in high mmr, which if it turned out to be high would actually be data that shows trapper is stronger than people give him credit for. I don't actually expect trappers kill rate to be high but would have enjoyed seeing the number if it did exist.

Im not calling you low mmr I dont know where did you get that from

There is untold rule only more seasoned players know

I apologize if that is not how you meant this but it certainly comes across to me that way.

Just allow dead hard for distance to return, it would literally fix a lot of problems. Then stop listening to the community. Imo we probably should head back to the older ways of DBD because this way doesn't work the game lacks intensity, or at least provide a legacy edition before the conspicuous actions system was added. I really miss when this game was actually asymmetrical.

If trapper has a good kill rate in high mmr then he is stronger than he is given credit for, just because its "mains" playing him doesn't make that kill rate invalid. A less skilled player being unable to perform with a given killer doesn't make them weak, it just means the less skilled player needs more practice with the killer. I agree with the overall post that you shouldn't use the killers overall kill rate as a reason not to buff them but if we slice that kill rate to just those players playing him in high mmr against players also in high mmr and the kill rate remains high then no he really doesn't. I don't expect that is the case for trapper.

Strong maybe he is but still second from the bottom (one of worst killers in the game because kill rates are wild numbers across the mmr), he is weak from his power logic you have to go out of your way and collect traps and set them so you can get maybe some value from them. As you say personaly I dont think he shines in high mmr but maybe he isnt in 1/3 of worst kill rates (freddy before his latest rework was thrash killer and he still dominated with kill rates in high mmr as exsample).

If its just the perks giving willie streak then theoretically any killer could put those perks on and get a win streak longer than the longest swf escape streak. Yet, I have also seen you claim that swf are the true menace of DBD. Those two points of view are directly contradictory. Just because you lose to those teams doesn't make them strong, does willie commonly lose to those teams? No. Gen regression has been nerfed but has that stopped willie from winning? No. Does playing as a killer that lacks map traversal stop willie from winning? No, he literally slugged as trapper and won many many matches in a row, this directly contradicts your claim. Maybe you require all of that to win your matches but not everyone does, willie clearly doesn't.

With that build any atlest 115 killer can do it (even 110 but 5% speed is still better and many 110 killers doesnt have good mability or they have none). Swf are at top of the chain in DBD with s-tiers being stronger but in top players hands and they are as high a-tier killers level in power because swf has everything soloq will never have (unless you would have wallhacks and could call out things and communicate with others thats basicaly swf with coms), swf are strong because they have something survivors didnt have and shouldnt (some killers desing like trap and set up killers can be countered compleatly by swf shared info and coordination or stealth like ghostface). You have to take in count that he had super speed with haste staked and noed which was key thing for his slugging if he would lost noed fast then slugging is super hard and survivors are kinda safe if its not one guy standing.

We got overall escape rates with high mmr broken out, you can ignore them if you like but doing so invalidates your view on the game and how it actually plays out. If we are going to balance survivor based on the strongest they can play then the same must apply to killers, I don't actually want that but your arguments point to you wanting that for survivors but not for killers, its a ridiculous double standard.

What double standart? I dont agree with s-tier killers and high a-tiers are like sfw with best gear so its kinda even (some killers are problematic especialy s-tiers and maybe ghoul in average mmr due to how easy he is but killers should be minimaly around springtraps or huntress level so its all much closer to each other without power level gabs that then make some balance changes almost impossible like many perks got nrefed just because nurse exsist and they werent even that good like weskers aura perks awerness).

I do hope that whatever rework or buff trapper gets makes him fun to play as and against. A dash killer would be incredibly sad to see.

Well thats moder thing mability and dash attacks and tbh its safest thing they can do because all other things majority of survivor player base hates like trap and are control killers like trapper,hag,knight,skullmerchant arent very liked compare to dash killers, if we take even blight you would be surprised how many survivors like him and even thought his hug tech was ok (remewed that and he is still s-tier), other options is like some throwing trap but we will see because his power doesnt have any more things like freddy had with palletts and devs gave it to him into his rework or mayers who had multiple things so it was less work to achive that then making the whole new power or concept like with merchant (devs even tried it to drop it and give us super small buffs instead, most of her mains just want her second version but that survivors cant even imagine and have more aversion to it than to ghoul). In 2026 there should be 3 reworks trappers,skullmerchants and tricksters and i believe tricksters will be first because devs kinda indicated that they have something showy with good style his mains will like so I guess he will come first,then merchant and last trapper but thats just speculation because as in this year we saw plans can change.

Agreed and will add that even with that it can be difficult to beat a good trapper. Hate going against him, enjoy 90% of my games using him.

Swf is not as strong as you have been led to believe and they were always expected to use comms. Tools like discord and teamspeak have been used in gaming since long before dbd. The devs would have been aware of this. I would bet the main reason we don't have in game voice is voice chat not being a feature the devs want to implement and maintain and they know people can just use one of these other tools. It nerfs oblivious/undetectable perks but those are not typically considered strong in the first place. If these tools effect kill rates then they effect the data used for balancing and are therefore taken into account.

Swf is strong compare to b-tier killers and bellow only a-tiers and above have solid chance or make it even. Thing is DBD wasnt made for coms and some characters with traps like the trapper or hag are pure exsample of that or even stealth killers like ghostface are super bad against info sharing survivors, if you played any other game like rainbow six or csgo or any other game you must know how information is important about your enemy/target and his traps and equipment and how it can reshape the outcomes and give new opportunities that arent much possible without it so thats why swf is so strong their power is in sharing information which gives them huge view on the game (they know who is their opponent,what is he using like perks and addons, what are his strategies like mind games or respecting pallets etc. or how good his aim is etc. by just having one guy chased by the killer and all know that or where he is placing traps, where he is and from which side he came so where he did spaw which is huge for the trap killers or set up killers and like for ghostface just one sees a glimps of you and all others are sharp and expect ambus so your first down time can increase tremendously compare to someone who isnt expecting it, so swf has many advantages soloq doesnt have and duo swf has only like this for half the team thats why they arent so op like 4 man).

Just imagine if killer would get some information from his friend (like someone spectating from some map cameras that are randomly set or he can have it 2v8 if he is togeather on coms with other killer, the potencial of fast downs and keeping preasure are highly increased and thats why in 2v8 combination like legion with oni or any other killer was so busted due to legions information and more for his preasure from fast multiple injures but that info was huge buff too if other killer could get it).

High MMR four mans had an escape rate of 48% when we got stats for it (approaching a year outdated). That is losing more than they win (if only by a little), its better than solo queue but it is not even approaching nurse and blight level until you get up to actual comp squads. That is the double standard, you are treating every swf as a comp squad and every survivor as god tier while downplaying everything about willies streak, who isn't even a comp player. I have seen very average killers achieve 50 game win streaks. I've also seen willie try to swf streak, they don't even reach 20.

The game is set to 60% on killrates and 40% on escape rates so its nice that its near these numbers and not like 30/70 or 20/80 or otherwise like 75/25 (escaper rate/kill rate, so its easier to understand). Blight and s-tier levels are busted. Im treating all swf as comp but to their max options which is info like comp, the fact they arent as good as comp is one thing like in looping or pulling saves and bodyblocks that are incrediable is one thing but they have almost same info share if we put the fact they dont use like clock system of calling out and arent that fast they still have something no soloq team has and will never have until soloq gets either some otion to cominicate between each other with coms like push to talk etc. or they get compleate info like seeing auras of gens,survivors, killer if is chased survivor looking at him etc., double standart arent you treating all blights as almost comp sweats? yes he has high potencial but then on other side he isnt as easy as ghoul or wraith,nemesis so not all blights are so busted and still loose even with the fact that comp blights are closest thing to cheaters in terms of power if we compare legit things with cheats. Win streaks are mostly about luck too you can get like 10 wins but 50 that means you played very well and didnt get srewed by things like map or survivor team with great conterplay and fast gens. For yor info best survivors have win streak above 200 which doesnt mean they suck, thing is we are talking about game where survivors will mostly die and less will escape that are stats that devs want the game to be balanced around 40/60 (escape rate%/kill rate%) so its just logical and blights 2000 win streak well he is busted and holds the "golden child of DBD" status from devs and like half the comunity because there wasnt killer that survived with so busted addons and techs as long as blight in late years of the game where killers can be nerfed fast and hard like chucky,skullmerchant,springtrap (his addons got nerfed which made him less powerfull like foxyes hook), then nurse has like 1000 winstreak and i think its perkless by supaalf because she is just nurse (if nurse player hits all her bliks super close to her hit range near survivor and reacts fast there is almost nothing survivor can do unless he is cheating or has some crazy haste which still is questionable or he has some endurance effect). Back to blight the 2k win streak was done when blight was strongest like old addons with busted effects (compound 33, alchemy ring that gave you 5 rush tokens if you hit one rush hit and other addons were very strong) plus he had his hug tech which wasnt hard to do and he could outplay the loop types that he cant ping pong just with 2 rushes (those rounded loops or short ones where he has nothing to bumb into so he can return fast,) he could pull dirty mind games with his hig tech and compare to weskers hug techs blights was way more easier to do and way stronger because if you failed you mostly got pallet or just cooldown for 2 rush tokens and then you could catch up with 5 so pretty different blight but now his was like 1200 or what before some swf crushed him and I even saw match where some swf (comp one I think) crashed him on hawkins (because of good timing and map) before he got even 10 points in his win streak which shows how rng factor is still a thing but it doesnt excuse the blights power level.

Dash would mean he is no longer The Trapper, that is the main reason I think it would be sad to see.

Idk if he will have traps then he is still trapper and as I mentioned before his trap would have to be super strong with very strong effects like hexes if they would be all he would have because the amont of rng and time/preasure waste his traps make isnt beneficial to outcomes if they dont work and unlike hag his traps have way harder requirement to be working and with last few years he lost grass on many maps where he could hide his traps and current hit is just killers with multiple powers or minimaly two like we can see it on doctor rework (big shock) or freddy (first he got snares and teleport and now they gave him dream pallets to) even new killers shoiw that like sprngtrap who has range attack and teleport from door to door and if killer is single power it needs to be strong in more things or atleast in one key like antiloop,mobility,leathality (multiple fast injures or instadowns) but even with effects like instadowns from honing stone (purple addon) trapper is still not that strong in particular because his power is just huge investment for small chance of getting some outcome so I think they will give him something like some throwing trap or dash but that will show time because if you look at history of buffs trapper has probably the most addonst made into basekit and buffs as character but still sits at bottom next to merchant that was made terrible intetionaly so instead of just buffing traps which they will do probably (I hope the rng will be gone like getting escape from first try fels terrible as him) but they will add him something so he is more complex like other killers.

Last killer who was just aded with power that covers many things but is just same (like huntress,billy,wraith,blight,nurse) is ghoul who has just his leaps that have multiple effects on survivors (fast injure, giving kagune mark) and mobility with antiloop, before him its probably singularity.

Killers are in advantage in lower tiers of mmr, the higher the mmr gets and experience of survivors plus skill increase the lower killers become way weaker and for that trapper streak that build can win any m1 killers game its not the killer but perks that made it possible and huge macro gameplay the majority of player base can only dream of because willie is very good with it (sadako main and only thing that makes her teleports work with condem is good macro play and keeping targeting specific spots where the most condem survivors are which requires huge macro something I bet you and I doesnt have at that level), the buld he ran can just win you any game as m1 all you need is like 1 or 2 kills and then good macro so you slug rest that has less resources (pallets) that were broke through the match with huge speed and noed giving you the oneshot thats what makes it possible because as you even admited even 4 slowdown trapper cant get half of this progress in wins or very hardly but slugging works its risky strategy in massive execution but its effective if it works. Blight thats just different level of power creep.

Ghostface is bad like realy bad unless he runs some specific builds like haste one with pwf and knife sheet then he can get just instadowns fast but still he isnt anything crazy just m1 killer who can go with no terror radius and has make your choice on command with stalk thats it and I think he would have loose more if he would face more swf because thats something that counters ghostface automaticaly with calling him out, all you need are two survivors prerunning and one always running behind him revealing him and if he switches then the chased one does what the other was doing and i guarantee you he will have no power or get so slowed in his progress that the gens will flyif other two will work on them.